Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Rohanx17]

Personally I don't mind the text leaks because they're fun to look at, but not in at this volume and when there is this much going on. They're better for the dry spells when nothing has or will be happening for weeks on end and we need something to keep the discussion going.

Another thing I'd like to add is that everyone getting hung up on the hype police should remember what the mood was like before the costume no-showed. Christ you could barely talk about the possibility without a half dozen people jumping down your throat to remind you what the current situation was like. We have it great right now.

 

[xpnc]

I think it'll come out to coincide with Geno if he's revealed as a fighter. It's great marketing on a game that at this point virtually costs nothing to reproduce!


All of the Doom games being released on Switch + their devs saying they talked about it.

All the Doom games were released on every console and they asked a man more associated with Fallout and the Elder Scrolls if they had talked to Nintendo about Smash

 

[MisterMike]

Took a look at that text leak. So can someone refresh me on why Doomguy has gotten so much buzz over the past year? As far as I'm aware it's just been a string of fake leaks and theories and then a game dump a few months ago. I'd easily believe Geno is #5 before him honestly.

Doomguy's presence in Smash speculation is one half Google Theory, one half "After Banjo we have literally no idea who could join Smash that would compare.", one half Pepe Silvia, and one half pure unadulterated hope. In reality, there's been nothing at all in terms of possible leaks or insider discussion regarding Doomguy.

 

[Deleted member]

there's been nothing at all in terms of possible leaks or insider discussion regarding Doomguy.

We don't really know that, do we? As far as Fatman would have us believe there's 4 or 5 characters who aren't Geno, Crash, and Ryu that have been floating around and I can't imagine one not being Doom guy. Outside of the 3 already mentioned, I can't begin to imagine anyone else aside from Doom Guy, Lloyd, Spyro, and then maybe drift back to actual first or second party Nintendo characters.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Doomguy discussion is almost entirely a result of fake leakers. He’s never been mentioned by anyone noteworthy and most people only think he is likely because they see other people talking about him on the internet. Sure, he COULD come. But there has never been any solid ground to stand on to think he is likely or in the works.

Characters that are primarily popular in the west have a massive uphill battle to get added to smash

Because people exclusively looked to Doom Slayer for the fake leaks... and not... you know...

The entirety of the Doom franchise showing back up on Switch and Bethesda being a considerable partner to Nintendo in the Switch era. Or just being the iconic FPS of its era that influenced tons of other titles...

No characters have any “solid ground” by your criteria then.

 

[Deleted member]

No characters have any “solid ground” by your criteria then.

WELL...

... They don't, because our speculation is meaningless in the face of Sakurai's whims.

 

[MisterMike]

We don't really know that, do we? As far as Fatman would have us believe there's 4 or 5 characters who aren't Geno, Crash, and Ryu that have been floating around and I can't imagine one not being Doom guy. Outside of the 3 already mentioned, I can't begin to imagine anyone else aside from Doom Guy, Lloyd, Spyro, and then maybe drift back to actual first or second party Nintendo characters.

I meant insider discussion we know about. Not ruling it out, of course.

 

[Firox]

WELL...

... They don't, because our speculation is meaningless in the face of Sakurai's whims.

Ain't that the sad truth. I actually agree with Eric (for once) that Doomguy could be a possible inclusion due to his iconic status in the FPS genre and the timing of Doom coming to switch, HOWEVER, Sakurai's whims are the only true deciding factor for any inclusion so no matter how much we try to out-think him, he could just as easily through in Puyo and call it a day.

 

[Deleted member]

Ain't that the sad truth. I actually agree with Eric (for once) that Doomguy could be a possible inclusion due to his iconic status in the FPS genre and the timing of Doom coming to switch, HOWEVER, Sakurai's whims are the only true deciding factor for any inclusion so no matter how much we try to out-think him, he could just as easily through in Puyo and call it a day.

I mean, people want to use the timing of Doom as a reason Doom Guy can make it in, but then people take Sakurai's word for it when he says Xenoblade 2 was being developed too late to put Rex in as a full fighter? Bethesda really only seems buddy buddy now well after Smash was in development, so those two "facts" don't add up.

Then again, Sakurai also claims to have basically seen Greninja on a piece of paper, said he looked neat, and put him into Smash, so the Rex situation is very obviously that Sakurai doesn't like him as a character, design or otherwise.

 

[GenoToto]

Then again, Sakurai also claims to have basically seen Greninja on a piece of paper, said he looked neat, and put him into Smash, so the Rex situation is very obviously that Sakurai doesn't like him as a character, design or otherwise.

To play a tiny devil's advocate, I will say that the situation could have varied differently depending on when the characters' designs were confirmed to be final and complete. If Greninja's design for X/Y was 100% finalized at the time of Smash 4, but Rex's design for Xenoblade 2 was still only partially complete during Smash Ultimate, there was no way they'd want to rig a whole character model and various renders based off of something that wasn't finished and could easily change later. That would be an unnecessary amount of time and work, considering everything else that has to be worked on.

It certainly isn't impossible to imagine that Sakurai may not have felt Rex to be a good fit, but by that same token, we have no real idea of the actual timing of things during development, so.. I feel it could have gone either way.

 

[Franco Geno]

If Geno is added to Smash, what if we sing Waltz Of The Forest or something like that together?

 

[Firox]

Sakurai also claims to have basically seen Greninja on a piece of paper, said he looked neat, and put him into Smash

(Sakurai's single most inspired pick)

 

[Deleted member]

To play a tiny devil's advocate, I will say that the situation could have varied differently depending on when the characters' designs were confirmed to be final and complete. If Greninja's design for X/Y was 100% finalized at the time of Smash 4, but Rex's design for Xenoblade 2 was still only partially complete during Smash Ultimate, there was no way they'd want to rig a whole character model and various renders based off of something that wasn't finished and could easily change later. That would be an unnecessary amount of time and work, considering everything else that has to be worked on.

It certainly isn't impossible to imagine that Sakurai may not have felt Rex to be a good fit, but by that same token, we have no real idea of the actual timing of things during development, so.. I feel it could have gone either way.

From what I can find, they started development on Xenoblade 2 in 2014, and I think everyone agrees Ultimate was getting underway in 2015 - I can't imagine the main character's design not being nailed down by the time they were putting characters together for Ultimate's newcomers. Even if Rex wasn't done, if Sakurai wanted another Xenoblade rep, he would have picked any of the likely infinitely better looking characters from Xenoblade 2 that probably were done, like the grey mask guy, or the older, angrier Rex clone.

I'm gonna stick with my theory that Sakurai found Rex mostly uninspiring and relegated him to Mii costume, but gave a spiel about how he came along too late just to placate whatever fans he might have.

EDIT: Especially since Incineroar hadn't even been designed yet, according to this: https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/1...ector-talks-character-process-and-development

 

[Vector Victor]

I mean, people want to use the timing of Doom as a reason Doom Guy can make it in, but then people take Sakurai's word for it when he says Xenoblade 2 was being developed too late to put Rex in as a full fighter? Bethesda really only seems buddy buddy now well after Smash was in development, so those two "facts" don't add up. . .

The Smash fanbase is known for holding two or more completely contradicting statements at a time when it comes to their 'rules.'

Rex can't be added for DLC because his game was too late. Someone from 3 Houses is completely guaranteed to make the fighter pass.

More Zelda characters shouldn't be added because they are one-offs and the Triforce trio perfectly capture the series. Fire Emblem needs more characters because of how many one-offs they have and what is currently on the roster poorly shows the series.

Geno shouldn't be added because he is a one shot irrelevant old unoriginal character from a dead series that is 20+ years old and would just be a Megaman clone. Chrono should be added because he perfectly fits into the roster.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Someone from 3 Houses is completely guaranteed to make the fighter pass.

What.

Spoiler

WHAT.

 

[MisterMike]

What.

Spoiler

WHAT.

Yeah, people do think that.

 

[OffBi]

What.

Spoiler

WHAT.

Heh, jokes on them, they're never getting another fire emblem rep

 

[ZelDan]

I wouldn't say a Three Houses rep is "guaranteed" at all, though it is weird Three Houses didn't get a spirit event of any kind considering how big FE has gotten for NIntendo. It's kinda weird Astral Chain didn't get one either when that Daemon X game did.

 

[catsforlife1]

People also say Geno can’t get in cus he’s a “side character.” Even tho we have a bunch of ACTUAL side characters in smash. Like doctor Mario, Daisy, Sheik, The dog it’s self for duck hut, every Pokemon rep except picachu, Mewtwo,and Pokémon trainer and a few more I’m probably forgetting.

 

[JarBear]

People also say Geno can’t get in cus he’s a “side character.” Even tho we have a bunch of ACTUAL side characters in smash. Like doctor Mario, Daisy, Sheik, The dog it’s self for duck hut, every Pokemon rep except picachu, Mewtwo,and Pokémon trainer and a few more I’m probably forgetting.

Isabel falls into that category too. So the side character argument does not hold any water. Different, but similar category is P Plant since it is a common minion.

 

[Franco Geno]

People also say Geno can’t get in cus he’s a “side character.” Even tho we have a bunch of ACTUAL side characters in smash. Like doctor Mario, Daisy, Sheik, The dog it’s self for duck hut, every Pokemon rep except picachu, Mewtwo,and Pokémon trainer and a few more I’m probably forgetting.

They say that as if it were not thanks to Super Mario RPG that we have the sagas of Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi in the first place

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

People also say Geno can’t get in cus he’s a “side character.” Even tho we have a bunch of ACTUAL side characters in smash. Like doctor Mario, Daisy, Sheik, The dog it’s self for duck hut, every Pokemon rep except picachu, Mewtwo,and Pokémon trainer and a few more I’m probably forgetting.

I've always hated that because Geno ISN'T a side character. He's integral to the plot, he's a main playable character, nothing about him is "side character" material. That's like saying King Dedede or Zelda is a side character.

 

[Franco Geno]

I've always hated that because Geno ISN'T a side character. He's integral to the plot, he's a main playable character, nothing about him is "side character" material. That's like saying King Dedede or Zelda is a side character.

I agree with you, Geno is basically the reason why the game even has a happy ending, even if they had found the star pieces without Geno they would never know what to do with them and the Star Road would still be destroyed meaning that none of the wishes of people around the world would come true

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Seriously speaking though, I think people geniuenly don't know what a side character is. A side character is a character who does very little in the plot and although it may have great effects down the line, if they only appear in the narrative for maybe a page or two and are never spoken of again, then they are a side character. Almost no character in Smash Bros qualifies for that role because at some point or another, every single one of these characters has been a main protagonist, antagonist, or main point to their respective game/franchise. Daisy is a main character because she drove the plot for Mario in Super Mario Land. Mr G&W is technically a collection of main characters. The only characters I'd argue is and , because none of the Pokemon are really integral to Pokemon's narrative ever except for the legendaries and even then, Mewtwo isn't important to the plot because he's a post game boss unless you count the anime too. All in all, R.O.B. only gets the title of side character because he's technically never been in a game with a plot, unless you count Subspace Emissary...which would mean that none of these characters except for , , & count as side characters.


So unless they pull another one of those three, we probably are getting a main character, even if it is Geno or Doom Slayer or Reimu or anyone like that.

 

[Vector Victor]

What.

Spoiler

WHAT.

Although, I think a chunk of that group feel that way due to being pessimistic that Nintendo would repeat the.....not well received...move they did with Corrin.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I mean, people want to use the timing of Doom as a reason Doom Guy can make it in, but then people take Sakurai's word for it when he says Xenoblade 2 was being developed too late to put Rex in as a full fighter? Bethesda really only seems buddy buddy now well after Smash was in development, so those two "facts" don't add up.

Then again, Sakurai also claims to have basically seen Greninja on a piece of paper, said he looked neat, and put him into Smash, so the Rex situation is very obviously that Sakurai doesn't like him as a character, design or otherwise.

Rex would have been added as DLC if Sakurai cared. He more or less directly shot down Rex/Pyra by putting them as the Mii costume bonus for the Fighter's Pass and there was absolutely no reason he could have selected them by the time DLC was decided in November 2018 if he well and truly wanted him. The comments about "too late" genuinely just seem to have applied for base game.

Also, Bethesda and Nintendo were working together on the Skyrim port as far back as late 2016, so there's enough cooperation there to say Bethesda could have been on the ground floor for Smash DLC based upon any number of factors, and we know DLC was decided through 2018 (Banjo & Kazooie were brought into the conversations at that time, which would have been after Doom released for Switch).

I don't think there's any lack of "facts" adding up, I just don't think Sakurai ever intended on adding Rex/Pyra as DLC, but probably would have under different circumstances for the base game and thus gave those comments.

 

[MattX20]

https://twitter.com/BestSmasher/status/1188899996495572992 It appears #5 is seemingly closer than expected

 

[Rohanx17]

https://twitter.com/BestSmasher/status/1188899996495572992 It appears #5 is seemingly closer than expected

I'm assuming the important piece is the dlc 5 link but what is notable about the contents of the other 2 pics? It just looks like a broken mess on my end.

 

[MattX20]

I'm assuming the important piece is the dlc 5 link but what is notable about the contents of the other 2 pics? It just looks like a broken mess on my end.

The fact that this page is up at all prior to the crash is the part that should raise eyebrows

 

[ArchRanger]

The fact that this page is up at all prior to the crash is the part that should raise eyebrows

The website also crashed yesterday due to the third party company’s servers going down. I wouldn’t put too much thought into this website issue IMO.

 

[MattX20]

The website also crashed yesterday due to the third party company’s servers going down. I wouldn’t put too much thought into this website issue IMO.

I wasn't talking the crash, I was talking the fact this page is even up at all.

 

[ArchRanger]

I wasn't talking the crash, I was talking the fact this page is even up at all.

Ahh my bad. Still, having a place holder page isn't anything new unless there was something changed. That Twitter user is using Safari to open the page which might be why it looks slightly different. There are a few people watching the website closely incase there is another copyright leak like what happened with Terry: https://www.nintendo.co.uk/DLC/Challenger-Pack-5-1519372.html

 

[JarBear]

I think it was either Savi’s or Papa’s discord that someone posted one of those Nintendo email newsletters (I am not subscribed to this, let alone any) and one of the “ads” is Terry for Smash, so that can add to the idea the release is more early November opposed to mid or late.

 

[AdamBel731]

To be fair I think there’s just one or two specific people that go on rants about individual characters and Sakurai not caring about fans in this specific thread.

Hmmm, I wonder who you could be referring to... real brain teaser there.


Also, as an aside, with all this talk of the Doom Slayer coming to Smash, I've been wondering, if you could choose between him or Master Chief, who would it be? (This doesn't have to be realistic, and I am NOT making the argument that the two characters are basically the same and all that argument entails...). Personally, while I see the argument for Master Chief (him being a HUGE icon of gaming that would shatter the internet upon his inclusion), I go with the Doom Slayer because of his history, his impact, his history with gaming/Nintendo as a whole, and, also, I feel like he is a more outlandish fit for Smash. I know that sounds weird due to his violent tendencies and all... but if you look into the newer games they've given him somewhat of a personality and have personified his mannerisms more to make him more over the top (I don't know if that makes sense). DOOM seems more outlandish than Halo (not as realistic, I guess) and I think that helps the character fit better in Smash (though yes I realize DOOM is still pretty mature).

I have have no history with Halo nor DOOM, I just think Doom Slayer would be better for the reasons I listed above (though I'd be totally good with Master Chief).

 

[Glitch-EGamer]

Hmmm, I wonder who you could be referring to... real brain teaser there.


Also, as an aside, with all this talk of the Doom Slayer coming to Smash, I've been wondering, if you could choose between him or Master Chief, who would it be? (This doesn't have to be realistic, and I am NOT making the argument that the two characters are basically the same and all that argument entails...). Personally, while I see the argument for Master Chief (him being a HUGE icon of gaming that would shatter the internet upon his inclusion), I go with the Doom Slayer because of his history, his impact, his history with gaming/Nintendo as a whole, and, also, I feel like he is a more outlandish fit for Smash. I know that sounds weird due to his violent tendencies and all... but if you look into the newer games they've given him somewhat of a personality and have personified his mannerisms more to make him more over the top (I don't know if that makes sense). DOOM seems more outlandish than Halo (not as realistic, I guess) and I think that helps the character fit better in Smash (though yes I realize DOOM is still pretty mature).

I have have no history with Halo nor DOOM, I just think Doom Slayer would be better for the reasons I listed above (though I'd be totally good with Master Chief).

My argument for Master Chief is because my best friend really wants him and I want to see him happy.

 

[valkiriforce]

Between Master Chief and Doomguy I would definitely go for the latter; played Doom on Windows DOS and the SNES back then, and Doom 64 when that came out. Not to mention the heckton of content that has been produced for Doom even up to this day, of which I also have some help in contributing to with my own Doom maps I've created. In a way it would feel like the same hero that has journeyed through endless new lands and territories in the form of fan-created levels would find his way into Smash, which would really amaze me. I imagine it's kind of similar for fans of Steve, since Minecraft revolves around fan-created content among other things.

Also, having Wolf, Doomguy and hopefully Geno together would be an odd but amazing dream team for me. Photoshoots for them would be imminent.

 

[Grumbo]

Looks like we’re very close to #5. I gotta wonder if the update shoots down #6 being revealed at the same time. Hopefully not though

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Hmmm, I wonder who you could be referring to... real brain teaser there.


Also, as an aside, with all this talk of the Doom Slayer coming to Smash, I've been wondering, if you could choose between him or Master Chief, who would it be? (This doesn't have to be realistic, and I am NOT making the argument that the two characters are basically the same and all that argument entails...). Personally, while I see the argument for Master Chief (him being a HUGE icon of gaming that would shatter the internet upon his inclusion), I go with the Doom Slayer because of his history, his impact, his history with gaming/Nintendo as a whole, and, also, I feel like he is a more outlandish fit for Smash. I know that sounds weird due to his violent tendencies and all... but if you look into the newer games they've given him somewhat of a personality and have personified his mannerisms more to make him more over the top (I don't know if that makes sense). DOOM seems more outlandish than Halo (not as realistic, I guess) and I think that helps the character fit better in Smash (though yes I realize DOOM is still pretty mature).

I have have no history with Halo nor DOOM, I just think Doom Slayer would be better for the reasons I listed above (though I'd be totally good with Master Chief).

I have a big history with Halo and no experience with DOOM. Master Chief would definitely get that wow factor from me and I would be super hype for his inclusion. At the same time tho, it seems like from the little I know of DOOM, Doomslayer would have the quirkiness that befits Smash where Chief wouldn't. Chief is frankly a little boring. However, I still think I'd prefer Chief to make it in if it had to be one or the other. Chief does at least have plenty of ranged and Melee weapons to choose from along with vehicles and armor abilities that could help him stand out with some gimmicks and new mechanics and he just has the potent gaming history with me that DOOM doesn't have for me.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I have a big history with Halo and no experience with DOOM. Master Chief would definitely get that wow factor from me and I would be super hype for his inclusion. At the same time tho, it seems like from the little I know of DOOM, Doomslayer would have the quirkiness that befits Smash where Chief wouldn't. Chief is frankly a little boring. However, I still think I'd prefer Chief to make it in if it had to be one or the other. Chief does at least have plenty of ranged and Melee weapons to choose from along with vehicles and armor abilities that could help him stand out with some gimmicks and new mechanics and he just has the potent gaming history with me that DOOM doesn't have for me.

I'm of similar position. Grew up with Halo, never really played DOOM, and would love to see the Chief make it to Smash. However, if I had to pick between Chief and Doom Slayer, I would probably have to go with Doom Slayer because of the history behind DOOM as a series and what that franchise did for the FPS genre. To be fair, Halo broke several FPS molds, but DOOM helped invent those molds in the first place.

Gotta go with the greater legacy on this one. Also, I can't really explain it but something about it just feels more... right.

 

[RingJ5]

Hmmm, I wonder who you could be referring to... real brain teaser there.


Also, as an aside, with all this talk of the Doom Slayer coming to Smash, I've been wondering, if you could choose between him or Master Chief, who would it be? (This doesn't have to be realistic, and I am NOT making the argument that the two characters are basically the same and all that argument entails...). Personally, while I see the argument for Master Chief (him being a HUGE icon of gaming that would shatter the internet upon his inclusion), I go with the Doom Slayer because of his history, his impact, his history with gaming/Nintendo as a whole, and, also, I feel like he is a more outlandish fit for Smash. I know that sounds weird due to his violent tendencies and all... but if you look into the newer games they've given him somewhat of a personality and have personified his mannerisms more to make him more over the top (I don't know if that makes sense). DOOM seems more outlandish than Halo (not as realistic, I guess) and I think that helps the character fit better in Smash (though yes I realize DOOM is still pretty mature).

I have have no history with Halo nor DOOM, I just think Doom Slayer would be better for the reasons I listed above (though I'd be totally good with Master Chief).

Chief, 100%. While I do have a particular fondness for the character, having grown up with the series and all, my reasoning revolves around a totally different aspect.

Banjo is an amazing character, but... how many people truly class him as an Xbox rep? Four of his five games(including the two spin-offs) all launched on Nintendo platforms, he’s generally thought of as an N64-era mascot, and the one game of his that actually launched on Xbox is known to be... controversial, to say the least.

Doomguy is a fine character and all, but seeing John-117 himself, the undisputed mascot of Xbox, fight characters like Mario and Sonic would just be on a whole different level, in my opinion.