PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
Well, he thought it was enough to make it public
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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior #Geno4Smash - Everyone's gotta do their part! Vote Geno
- Thread starter PsychoIncarnate
- Start date
D
Deleted member
Guest
Whatever "justification" helps you sleep at night.
Professor Kawashima and James Bond for Smash!
Professor Kawashima and James Bond for Smash!
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
There is an item from Golden Eye in Smash
8-peacock-8
Smash Hero
fixed.
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
Aldo just a clarification, but Geno being revealed (hypothetical) would cause a stir for the worse. I'd be people complaining that such a minor character would somehow gets a place on the roster when fan favorites like Toad and Bowser Jr. get the shaft, or people being disappointed in Square Enix for picking Geno instead of something from Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest. Sure there might the satisfaction from a small group of people, but the general crowd will be confused or disappointed.
D
Deleted member
Guest
It's a shame, really.
Had Rare not been bought by Microsoft, we could have had Banjo and James Bond in Smash by now. And perhaps have had Diddy earlier.
And Krystal would actually be a decent character from an interesting new franchise, Drakor would exist and be a totally badass villain, etc.
*Sigh*. Nintendo should have never sold Rare....
EDIT: Eh, never mind that part. That was Nintendo's doing.
Had Rare not been bought by Microsoft, we could have had Banjo and James Bond in Smash by now. And perhaps have had Diddy earlier.
*Sigh*. Nintendo should have never sold Rare....
EDIT: Eh, never mind that part. That was Nintendo's doing.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
Well, I believe that's a poor point of view on the situation.
And it wouldn't be Square picking Geno anyway, it would be Nintendo
KCCHIEFS27
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,291
Unfortunately us Geno fans defended him to the very end relentlessly in the pre-Brawl days, so we don't care to give any argument other than "hes awesome and from an awesome game" now. He's the only reason I joined smash bros discussion forums in the first place.
I know he has little to no chance now, but please for the love of god don't act like YOU know who is or is not worthy of being in a game made by someone other than you. You don't know his criteria for who gets in or who doesn't, and relevance doesn't mean **** all. Again, I'm recognizing Geno has maybe a 5% chance of being in a smash bros game at this point.
I know he has little to no chance now, but please for the love of god don't act like YOU know who is or is not worthy of being in a game made by someone other than you. You don't know his criteria for who gets in or who doesn't, and relevance doesn't mean **** all. Again, I'm recognizing Geno has maybe a 5% chance of being in a smash bros game at this point.
FZ64
Smash Journeyman
plus this is mainly a guessing game who will who won't Who we want!
SuperMetroid44
Smash Lord
Explain how it's a poor view.
I'm still trying to see, why would Nintendo pick an OBSCURE character over a main character of their series? That makes 0% sense. Geno does NOT really represent the Mario series, especially being owned by Square-Enix, how does he represent the Mario series over the MAIN characters? Please explain that to me.
People say Geno is incredibly popular, but where is this popularity? Maybe he has a fan following, and a selected view would like to see him in SSB4, but his fan base is really nothing compared to the others.
We can't control Nintendo and what they do, I mean ultimately, it's up to Nintendo on what they wanna do. I was just trying to see what most Geno fans think, and I have not really gotten a good argument on why he should be in the game. People in SSB are usually stars of the series they're in, Geno was in 1 game, he's not exactly a star.
I mean everyone's purely speculating, pretty sure we can do that if we want.
Of course, it's speculation. As I said, we can't control Nintendo, but we can sure as heck speculate if this or that character deserves to get in, in our opinions.
________________________________________
Also, I think GoldenYuiitusin pretty much summarized this debate pretty well.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
It's a poor view to believe that any character "Took the place" of another character because it's just not true. While the game may be limited by time, it's not going to be limited by space and if Sakurai felt any character should be added to smash, they would be added. If not they won't.
It's not up to whether to decide if one character is deserving or not because that's never how smash works. The only deserving characters are the main ones really, from there it's mostly just fan favorites.
Also, if Geno get's in it's not like he's going to or even meant to represent Square. He'd just be a character Nintendo is licensing to use that'd be part of the Mario series
This point of view is wrong because it sounds like your a whiny brat that thinks they deserve their character to get in
It's not up to whether to decide if one character is deserving or not because that's never how smash works. The only deserving characters are the main ones really, from there it's mostly just fan favorites.
Also, if Geno get's in it's not like he's going to or even meant to represent Square. He'd just be a character Nintendo is licensing to use that'd be part of the Mario series
This point of view is wrong because it sounds like your a whiny brat that thinks they deserve their character to get in
D
Deleted member
Guest
Irony at it's finest.
Such is the logic of a Geno fanboy.
jigglover
Smash Lord
That, is well and truly legendary. Do you mind if I keep this copied so I can paste it whenever Geno is brought up? I'm reading through waht I missed on here yesterday and today, but right now I can't see a single argument that is not flawed, and I've looks at it from several angles! Bravo!
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
it WOULD be ironic if I cared if Geno was this so called "Deserving" or not.
But TBH, I don't think your opinion on "Deserving" means anything. I don't think "deserving" matters
SuperMetroid44
Smash Lord
You "don't care", yet you've been replying to everything we've been saying on the matter...
You don't think "deserving" matters? Then what does matter?? Awesomeness?
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
We don't know what matters.
Sakurai just picks what he picks.
Why'd he pick ROB? Why'd he pick Wolf? We'd he pick Jigglypuff, or Ice climbers, or sheik, or Red? Red was one of the least popular character choices. People mocked the guy who requested Red, yet he's in the game.
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
Jigglypuff was added because it was easy to model due to being similar to Kirby. It's still probably kept for seniority sake since it's part of the 12 original characters from Smash 64.
Ice Climbers were added to represent the NES, notably beating out some characters like Balloon Fighter and Pit (the latter became a playable character later though).
R.O.B. was an important piece of history for Nintendo and video games in general. Also a notable plot point in Subspace Emissary.
Wolf was a last minute addition, but still has some credit for being Fox's rival.
Sheik was an allies of Zelda during the days of Melee, so it makes sense to include it. The inclusion in Brawl in particular was made as an homage to the unused concept of Shiek in Twilight Princess.
Red was probably added to add a human character to the Pokemon universe and add a unique gameplay mechanic with swapping between three different characters. Also Red was the first protagonist in any Pokemon game and makes appearances in several other games later on.
Ice Climbers were added to represent the NES, notably beating out some characters like Balloon Fighter and Pit (the latter became a playable character later though).
R.O.B. was an important piece of history for Nintendo and video games in general. Also a notable plot point in Subspace Emissary.
Wolf was a last minute addition, but still has some credit for being Fox's rival.
Sheik was an allies of Zelda during the days of Melee, so it makes sense to include it. The inclusion in Brawl in particular was made as an homage to the unused concept of Shiek in Twilight Princess.
Red was probably added to add a human character to the Pokemon universe and add a unique gameplay mechanic with swapping between three different characters. Also Red was the first protagonist in any Pokemon game and makes appearances in several other games later on.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
It was rhetorical. I realize, ROB in that list was "deserving" in the least.
The point was, who we all feel as "Deserving" doesn't really mean squat. We can try and summon up reason afterward as justification, but you can justify anything if you reach far enough.
People's definition of "Deserving" differ. Some people simply think repetition = deserving. Or in a new game = deserving.
I don't think it's going to matter in the end. The people we say are deserving may or may not get in. Others we feel aren't could very well get in.
If you wanted a better argument you should have come during Brawl's development when people had more facts and thoughts about such matters. 'cause I stopped caring by the end of Brawl and am just supporting characters I like.
My second most supported character is Sukapon, and like hell he's getting in
The point was, who we all feel as "Deserving" doesn't really mean squat. We can try and summon up reason afterward as justification, but you can justify anything if you reach far enough.
People's definition of "Deserving" differ. Some people simply think repetition = deserving. Or in a new game = deserving.
I don't think it's going to matter in the end. The people we say are deserving may or may not get in. Others we feel aren't could very well get in.
If you wanted a better argument you should have come during Brawl's development when people had more facts and thoughts about such matters. 'cause I stopped caring by the end of Brawl and am just supporting characters I like.
My second most supported character is Sukapon, and like hell he's getting in
D
Deleted member
Guest
There has not been a single character in Smash that hasn't been important in some way to their respective series. Hell, even Dr. Mario is the main protagonist of his own subseries.
Geno simply does not have that importance. Sure he was important in the one game he was truly in (since the Geno doll in M&L: PiT was not
♪!?), but when that one game is only one of what seems like hundreds, that's not that great. And to make things worse, he's owned by a 3rd Party company. More characters in the series that are actually owned by Nintendo have had greater amounts of important roles in greater amounts of games (though when the bar is set at 1, it's not that difficult).
Even the lowly Waluigi has had multiple major roles compared to Geno.
EDIT: And before you try to bring up Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and someone like Ivysaur, you have to factor in the ones they are tied to. Alone, they would not be considered important, but as a derivative of the main component (Zelda, Samus, Pokemon Trainer)....
Geno simply does not have that importance. Sure he was important in the one game he was truly in (since the Geno doll in M&L: PiT was not
♪!?), but when that one game is only one of what seems like hundreds, that's not that great. And to make things worse, he's owned by a 3rd Party company. More characters in the series that are actually owned by Nintendo have had greater amounts of important roles in greater amounts of games (though when the bar is set at 1, it's not that difficult).Even the lowly Waluigi has had multiple major roles compared to Geno.
EDIT: And before you try to bring up Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and someone like Ivysaur, you have to factor in the ones they are tied to. Alone, they would not be considered important, but as a derivative of the main component (Zelda, Samus, Pokemon Trainer)....
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
He had importance to the generation who played his game as their first RPG. It was a beginner RPG that was able to draw people in and attract them to the franchise. I know it was the first RPG I played, and while I didn't get everything at the time I was able to learn most of the things before pokemon Red and Blue came out and was able to figure out the genre from there.There has not been a single character in Smash that hasn't been important in some way to their respective series. Hell, even Dr. Mario is the main protagonist of his own subseries.
Geno simply does not have that importance. Sure he was important in the one game he was truly in (since the Geno doll in M&L: PiT was not
Even the lowly Waluigi has had multiple major roles compared to Geno.
EDIT: And before you try to bring up Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, and someone like Ivysaur, you have to factor in the ones they are tied to. Alone, they would not be considered important, but as a derivative of the main component (Zelda, Samus, Pokemon Trainer)....
Mario RPG is known as one of the best Super Nintendo games for a reason
D
Deleted member
Guest
And that means, what exactly in the long run?
Seriously, Geno fanboy logic hurts my head trying to make sense of it.
And Mario Tennis is considered one of the best N64 titles, and had importance by making sports games actually quite entertaining, setting a step for future games to come.
I guess Waluigi is much more "important" and "deserving" than we all thought.
Seriously, Geno fanboy logic hurts my head trying to make sense of it.
And Mario Tennis is considered one of the best N64 titles, and had importance by making sports games actually quite entertaining, setting a step for future games to come.
I guess Waluigi is much more "important" and "deserving" than we all thought.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
I'm sure "I like a character, I'd like to play as them in smash" is hard to understand.
I really don't care what you think is important in a character. I support characters I like, not characters people say are important
I really don't care what you think is important in a character. I support characters I like, not characters people say are important
D
Deleted member
Guest
I personally don't give a flying one whether or not you support characters that aren't important.
It's when you overstate the importance of the unimportant and act as though being deserving means nothing.
Yes, I am well aware that the deserving could end up not being in. It's happened before, and it can happen again. However, there has not yet been a character that is unimportant to their series, so to act as though it can easily happen with someone like Geno just for being "awesome" or a falsified determination of popularity is asinine.
It's when you overstate the importance of the unimportant and act as though being deserving means nothing.
Yes, I am well aware that the deserving could end up not being in. It's happened before, and it can happen again. However, there has not yet been a character that is unimportant to their series, so to act as though it can easily happen with someone like Geno just for being "awesome" or a falsified determination of popularity is asinine.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
It's called being cynical. When I write "Awesome" as a factor I'm being cynical
jigglover
Smash Lord
Good god, that post is so wrong.. As I put in the mario character thread, the game was released in only America and Japan. That means that for probably half of the people (probably more) Sakurai is trying to sell to don't give a **** to this reasoning. Also, one of the best SNES games? Ok, first search result for 'top 10 SNES games' puts it 8th, that's alright. Oh dear, it's not on the second result, whereas super mario world 1 and 2 are. IGN puts it 10th, this time behind super mario world and super mario kart! That is brilliant! A completely up-to-date thread on a forum (August 2012, with some lists in the comments up to 5 minutes ago) and not one person mentioned super mario RPG. For crying out loud, talking about personal experience? One person put Mario paint as an honorable mention at the bottom of his comment because it always sparked creativity in him! As you can see, not too shabby, but the popularity is completely gone as of recent (you know, that time we're in now) and up to 2 years ago it would get 8/10 maximum.... Oh sorry, that was just on the newer comments, it is in fact on 15 lists of around 100. This is not good, as games like super mario world and chrono trigger have about 80, and yoshi's island has 82. You know, it's probably more than 100 as well, 138 comments, but there are a few comments that aren't lists.
Geno fanboy logic = flawed
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
Like I give a **** about those that didn't get the gameGood god, that post is so wrong.. As I put in the mario character thread, the game was released in only America and Japan. That means that for probably half of the people (probably more) Sakurai is trying to sell to don't give a **** to this reasoning. Also, one of the best SNES games? Ok, first search result for 'top 10 SNES games' puts it 8th, that's alright. Oh dear, it's not on the second result, whereas super mario world 1 and 2 are. IGN puts it 10th, this time behind super mario world and super mario kart! That is brilliant! A completely up-to-date thread on a forum (August 2012, with some lists in the comments up to 5 minutes ago) and not one person mentioned super mario RPG. For crying out loud, talking about personal experience? One person put Mario paint as an honorable mention at the bottom of his comment because it always sparked creativity in him! As you can see, not too shabby, but the popularity is completely gone as of recent (you know, that time we're in now) and up to 2 years ago it would get 8/10 maximum.... Oh sorry, that was just on the newer comments, it is in fact on 15 lists of around 100. This is not good, as games like super mario world and chrono trigger have about 80, and yoshi's island has 82. You know, it's probably more than 100 as well, 138 comments, but there are a few comments that aren't lists.
Geno fanboy logic = flawed
jigglover
Smash Lord
You might not, but I'm sure Sakurai does. Just because Japan and America are the two most-targeted audiences of a lot of nintendo games, a ****-load of cash comes from UK, Korean, Brazilian and Australian buyers as well (I think that's the bulk of the other countries) and none of those got Geno before it came out on virtual console, which mostly people in the UK know about because of one article in ONM. This is really not helping this spirit's chances! (I didn't say star spirit because that might imply Geno is some mario all-star or something!)
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
I've ignored you, so I'm just not going to respond anymore. Can't see what you wrote anyway.
jigglover
Smash Lord
What a good debater/whiner you are.
Big-Cat
Challenge accepted.
Good God, I heard the arguing in here was bad, but really?!
And oh, let's not forget R.O.B. the one guy EVERYONE raged about when they saw he was playable over the much more popular Ridley and Krystal. Yet, nowadays, people try to use the "deserving" card to explain why he was put in, only to expose their hypocrisy.
Look, people, we gotta stop with this "deserving" crap. Sakurai, or any developer for that matter, has a myriad of reasons why a character would be put in. One of the deciding factors, anywho, should be if they contribute a new playstyle to the roster. In fact, this was specifically why Jigglypuff was brought back in Melee. Sakurai thought her playstyle was too unique to pass up.
A roster doesn't need to just have the recurring and "in" characters. A diverse cast should also include some characters that fit in by not actually fitting in. Geno and Tom Nook would be prime examples of this. Geno is from a well favored RPG and has not made a proper appearance since then minus that one cameo. Tom Nook, in comparison, would fit in the same way Phoenix Wright did in UMvC3.
Tell that to every crossover fightger ever made. You had people that *****ed about characters like Rocket Raccoon, She-Hulk, PHOENIX WRIGHT, and especially M.O.D.O.K. getting into MvC3 when they wanted people like Venom, Gambit, and Psylocke instead. There's also people that felt Poison wasn't deserving to be in SFxTK and was only popular because of her ambiguous sex (though this IS partially true) while others were clamoring for people like Alex, Urien, and Q. In fact, I still stand that Geno is Smash's Poison in terms of demand.
And oh, let's not forget R.O.B. the one guy EVERYONE raged about when they saw he was playable over the much more popular Ridley and Krystal. Yet, nowadays, people try to use the "deserving" card to explain why he was put in, only to expose their hypocrisy.
As if your post isn't ironic either.
Look, people, we gotta stop with this "deserving" crap. Sakurai, or any developer for that matter, has a myriad of reasons why a character would be put in. One of the deciding factors, anywho, should be if they contribute a new playstyle to the roster. In fact, this was specifically why Jigglypuff was brought back in Melee. Sakurai thought her playstyle was too unique to pass up.
A roster doesn't need to just have the recurring and "in" characters. A diverse cast should also include some characters that fit in by not actually fitting in. Geno and Tom Nook would be prime examples of this. Geno is from a well favored RPG and has not made a proper appearance since then minus that one cameo. Tom Nook, in comparison, would fit in the same way Phoenix Wright did in UMvC3.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Whether you look at deserving or not, the fact of the matter is, for all Geno is "worth" (which in reality is just a vocal minority of a fanbase), there is absolutely nothing of him within Brawl. Not even a Sticker.
Now, you can claim the "Square-Enix owns him" excuse, but would him being a Sticker really have been a big legal issue? I mean, it's a licensed cameo, something that's been done before. It's not like Nintendo had to pay SE for that little cameo in M&L: PiT, right is it?
Now, you can claim the "Square-Enix owns him" excuse, but would him being a Sticker really have been a big legal issue? I mean, it's a licensed cameo, something that's been done before. It's not like Nintendo had to pay SE for that little cameo in M&L: PiT, right is it?
Starphoenix
How Long Have I Been Asleep?
Anytime one company uses another company's property it is a big deal. Even within the same company, you have different subsidiaries that require legal, contractual approval. When you have a third party company that is already known for being tightwads, then yes, it just might be a big deal in this context.
8-peacock-8
Smash Hero
Worth = How important they are to their franchise, what Sakurai thinks of them, and how popular they are. (Im assuming this)
Big-Cat
Challenge accepted.
That sounds an awful lot like deserving to me.
To me, you're giving me the same present in a different wrapping.
FZ64
Smash Journeyman
I am starting to find this argument funny most people support the charters they want they can care less about the so called "Worth-deserving "
"
8-peacock-8
Smash Hero
It pretty much is. At least in my opinion.
I'm not exactly a Geno supporter either.
I want Bomberman but that wont happen anytime soon.
SuperMetroid44
Smash Lord
No one's trying to change anyone's opinion, everyone has to right to express what they think, and we're just discussing Geno and if we think he's deserving to be in SSBB.
Now, if anyone disagrees with the whole "deserving" thing, that's cool, but in my opinion, it doesn't change the fact that Geno doesn't represent the Mario series over the more important/promident Mario characters like Toad/Waluigi/Bowser Jr., etc. (And that, my friends, is a fact =P). And I like Geno, everyone thinks I hate him, but I don't, I just don't think he should be in a game where the stars of Nintendo fight, because he's a minor character owned by another company. I mean, I always liked Vivian from Paper Mario Thousand Year Door, but I don't think she should be in over the more important characters, because she is a minor character.
Super Smash Bros. has always been about stars of series' fighting, Geno is not a star in the Mario series.
8-peacock-8
Smash Hero
Technically he is a star in the literal sense.
But seriously, your correct on what you said about Geno.