Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior (Come on! Let's get this show on the road! Geno DLC)

JarBear

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Wow, all of this is very, very interesting. From the supposed data so far, "Brave" is not sounding like Edrick or any other DQ protagonist ... even kid Eddy doesn't really fit the bill. One thing we should probably all agree on is we cannot assume "Brave" is the Square Rep, it could be something/someone else.

Of course, I will hope its Geno ... but been crushed so much already I will not hold my breath.

I agree with some other user's inputs ... why is such data in the game? I am curious why a developer even includes this in the code before a release ... it must be on purpose for people to drive themselves crazy.
 
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faygoshill

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Please announce the character already Nintendo...we’re all mentally exhausted at this point, not just geno fans but everyone....
Honestly it feels mildly anti-consumer to not just tell us what's in the pass

Like I bought it because I'll probably be satisfied with whatever they put in it but some people would only buy it if one of the characters they want like Banjo or Steve or something was in.
 

FLGibsonIII

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Mario's run speed is 1.76 and Brave's is 1.74 so it's not a huge stretch. In comparison, Bowser's is 1.971, who was by far the slowest character in SMRPG. The weight isn't terribly off either. Mario is 98, Brave is 101. Weight is also pretty inconsistent in Smash too. Charizard is heavier than Ridley and Mewtwo, for example. Megaman is literally made of metal and yet Captain Falcon and the Belmonts are heavier than him. Ike and Ridley are the same weight. Keep in mind that Brave is still shorter than Mario too. As for the character concept, a super fast zoning character would be broken for obvious reasons, even if they were light. Imagine Megaman, Mii Gunner, or Villager with double their speed and you'll realize how bull**** that would be, especially with Brave being a floaty fast faller. I feel like if this really were Geno, the adjustments would have been done for the sake of balance because "canon" Geno would probably be a busted mess.
Do you know how the other leakers are feeling about these stats?
 

Fatmanonice

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Other things to consider if this character was Geno. Brave's air speed is 1.2 (matching Mario's) and fast fall speed is 2.88, (matching Roy/Chrom). Let's compare this to the fastest zoner in Ultimate, Toon Link. His air speed is 1.02 and fast fall speed is 2.208.

Here are the aerial differences:

Toon Link/Brave

Nair: 7/15
Fair: 11/13
Bair: 8/13
Uair: 13/10
Dair: 23/18

Brave is floatier but can be on the ground faster if they want to. Again, this is someone who is as fast in the air as Mario and can fall as fast as Roy/Chrom, so they can still be up your *** pretty quick even if they don't have the highest run speed. It still points at a intimidating zoner but a lackluster swordsmen because of the aerial lag. As I've been showing, if Brave was a true swordsman then they would have the worst aerial stats of any swordsman in the game but have the stats to be a very scary zoner.
 
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Other things to consider if this character was Geno. Brave's air speed is 1.2 (matching Mario's) and fast fall speed is 2.88, (matching Roy/Chrom). Let's compare this to the fastest zoner in Ultimate, Toon Link. His air speed is 1.02 and fast fall speed is 2.208.

Here are the aerial differences:

Toon Link/Brave

Nair: 7/15
Fair: 11/13
Bair: 8/13
Uair: 13/10
Dair: 23/18

Brave is floatier but can be on the ground faster if they want to. Again, this is someone who is as fast in the air as Mario and can fall as fast as Roy/Chrom, so they can still be up your *** pretty quick even if they don't have the highest run speed. It still points at a intimidating zoner but a lackluster swordsmen because of the aerial lag. As I've been showing, if Brave was a true swordsman then they would have the worst aerial stats of any swordsman in the game but have the stats to be a very scary zoner.
So obviously everyone in this thread is hoping it will end up being Geno, but in your opinion who are some other popular suggestions that would fit the bill here?
 

Zack E.

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So obviously everyone in this thread is hoping it will end up being Geno, but in your opinion who are some other popular suggestions that would fit the bill here?
After seeing the similarities between zoners like Pacman, my theory from yesterday may be a bit of a stretch, but I was thinking it could be Sans
 
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Fatmanonice

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Do you know how the other leakers are feeling about these stats?
People see that something is definitely off but there's no consensus. I'm personally hesitant to subscribe to it being Geno but the evidence does point to the character being a child sized character with meh aerial lag typical of zoners but almost scary aerial movement properties. Either way, the evidence is hardstacked against it being adult Erdrick based on size and weight and even kid Erdrick is a bit of a stretch given how atypical the stats are for swordsmen.
 
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After seeing the similarities between zoners like Pacman, my theory from yesterday may be a bit of a stretch, but I was thinking it could be Sans
Now I'm hardly a Sans expert since I've never played the game but I don't think I've ever seen people describe him as someone who could be a zoner, would he really work as one?
 

fleshdude.gov

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So obviously everyone in this thread is hoping it will end up being Geno, but in your opinion who are some other popular suggestions that would fit the bill here?
I'm entertaining the possibility that it is Amaterasu from Okami. It would explain the shorter height but heavier-than-average weight, they would be more likely to play like a zoner, and it would explain why their turning is like that.....but I'm not sure on that one.

I'm also considering the possibility that it is a Titan Dweevil but it's to scale somewhat so it's actually short. It's "brave" because there's a to-scale Louie piloting it and he's a massive coward


After seeing the similarities between zoners like Pacman, my theory from yesterday may be a bit of a stretch, but I was thinking it could be Sans
It's definitely possible. Sans would definitely be a dangerous zoner. His whole thing is playing keep-away; he's not the type to get in too close.
 
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Paul Cesar

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What I find really funny about this new development as we near the inevitable Square-Enix character announcement is that the best piece of evidence towards Geno's chances come from within the game's code itself. Brave's frame data could've been similar to every other proportionally sized swordsman in the game and we could've called it a day but nope, instead it's that of a short, floaty, and heavy mystery fighter who slides around and has the stats of other zoners in the game. The universe sure has a funny way to keep things interesting sometimes.
 

egaddmario

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I complety see Geno's aerials being slow as it needs to "cast" em.

Ignore me please, I'm dying inside right now.
You think you're the only one dying inside? I think the whole thread is...

These have been quite some interesting discoveries!!
 
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You think you're the only one dying inside? I think the whole thread is...

These have been quite some interesting discoveries!!
Imagine how much I, the one who still thinks we're getting kid Erdrick, feel when I see how well these stats would fit a character like Geno.

If everyone's dying inside, I think I'm dying inside thrice over.
 
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Wow! I was almost certain that this "Brave" character was Erdrick, (I heard somewhere that "brave" was Joker height, maybe I heard wrong?) but now I'm finally feeling some hope. Geno does fit those stats and its not unheard of for Nintendo and Square Enix to throw people off on who is coming and whos not, so what if Erdrick really is leakbait? I find it so odd that his name is spread left and right constantly. I don't doubt that he has a shot, probably 80% at this rate, but I feel as if this "brave" dude isn't him.
 

Fatmanonice

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I have heard others saying that the frame data for these aerials are the same as joker's. Is this true?
Looks like there has been a mix-up. Yes, currently Joker and Brave's aerial lag is exactly the same but everything else isn't. Seems the server I got the aerial lag info on was wrong. Either way, it still stands that Brave is a child sized character with average speed but a floaty and a fast faller.
 
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Zack E.

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Now I'm hardly a Sans expert since I've never played the game but I don't think I've ever seen people describe him as someone who could be a zoner, would he really work as one?
I'm thinking he could use bones as a projectile, or maybe to edge characters out. Again, a bit of a stretch, but I think it is a possibility
 
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hey, im a lot younger then yo geno fans and can i say that i fail to see the appeal? Maybe its because Super Mario RPG is my second least favorite Mario RPG (beats sticker star, but i havent played color splash yet) or possibly since im from a far later generation then you guys. I just dont get the reason to go through all this trouble when we still have one of the main mario villains missing in kamek, a major character in Toad, and countless RPG characters who are just as memorable as Geno.

What am i missing? Why geno in particular?
 

Zubyyyy

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One one hand, It makes me laugh because it shows how easily people both give up on their hopes as well as jump onto current bandwagon ideas.

On the other, it makes me cry because I am the same. It may make me seem very one-track minded, but I never cared for Eddy simply because DQ has never really appealed to me.

If this gives hopes to a possible Sora or Geno character, then I am all for it.
 

GoodGrief741

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Y’all overthinking the stats thing way too much, we already know stats are liable to change, and we know some of Brave’s are straight up copied from Joker. I understand trying to find meaning in all of this, but aside from the name nothing is final.

hey, im a lot younger then yo geno fans and can i say that i fail to see the appeal? Maybe its because Super Mario RPG is my second least favorite Mario RPG (beats sticker star, but i havent played color splash yet) or possibly since im from a far later generation then you guys. I just dont get the reason to go through all this trouble when we still have one of the main mario villains missing in kamek, a major character in Toad, and countless RPG characters who are just as memorable as Geno.

What am i missing? Why geno in particular?
As for why we like Geno, it’s probably because of his cool design, personality, and moveset potential.

But if what you’re asking why we think Geno should be in the game, it’s basically because he has a massive fanbase spanning all the way back to the Melee days.

I don’t see it as an either/or situation, I think Kamek should also get in and Toad should have been in since Melee.
 

GenoFlash

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hey, im a lot younger then yo geno fans and can i say that i fail to see the appeal? Maybe its because Super Mario RPG is my second least favorite Mario RPG (beats sticker star, but i havent played color splash yet) or possibly since im from a far later generation then you guys. I just dont get the reason to go through all this trouble when we still have one of the main mario villains missing in kamek, a major character in Toad, and countless RPG characters who are just as memorable as Geno.

What am i missing? Why geno in particular?
There is no particular "gotcha" as to why the character has such a large and rabid fanbase. He's cool, he's from a good game, he carries some forbidden fruit appeal as the lost Mario character. It just adds up to a character who should realistically have a little cult fanbase but instead is far bigger.
 
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People see that something is definitely off but there's no consensus. I'm personally hesitant to subscribe to it being Geno but the evidence does point to the character being a child sized character with meh aerial lag typical of zoners but almost scary aerial movement properties. Either way, the evidence is hardstacked against it being adult Erdrick based on size and weight and even kid Erdrick is a bit of a stretch given how atypical the stats are for swordsmen.
My wild theory right now is actually Frisk or Sans. One of the souls is the bravery soul, not to mention determination is pretty synonymous with Bravery. I dunno; it's crazy enough to work.
 
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I sincerely doubt it is an Undertale rep, and I can tell you why.

I'm a massive Undertale junkie. Heck, I've been a fan of Toby's work before Undertale even happened. I'd like to think I know Toby's ideals pretty well enough, and I can safely say Undertale reps in Smash would be an affront to them.

I could see Toby certainly wanting Undertale featured in Smash in a small way, perhaps via spirits, but in terms of a full, playable character, I can't see it. Having Undertale represented by so much as a corporate merchandiser was enough to turn him away, for he'd shot down those opportunities and went to Twitter over them. He prides Undertale in being a labor of love, not a 'franchise' or anything 'corporate'. Undertale being its own thing in Smash, being a franchise represented with a character, doesn't feel like a very Toby thing to do. He loves Smash, and he even made jabs at it in Deltarune, Undertale's sister game, but to go that far into the corporate rabbit hole with it is against everything he's publicly said about Undertale's future.

Plus, Shantae, the longest-running indie franchise under Nintendo's belt, being just a spirit? Shovel Knight, a Kickstarter success arguably bigger than Undertale, being an assist trophy? Yeah, I just don't see it happening.
 

Zack E.

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hey, im a lot younger then yo geno fans and can i say that i fail to see the appeal? Maybe its because Super Mario RPG is my second least favorite Mario RPG (beats sticker star, but i havent played color splash yet) or possibly since im from a far later generation then you guys. I just dont get the reason to go through all this trouble when we still have one of the main mario villains missing in kamek, a major character in Toad, and countless RPG characters who are just as memorable as Geno.

What am i missing? Why geno in particular?
First off, you should watch this video:


Second, I will give you my explanation.

He is an interesting character with a thought out introduction. He is a star spirit who has a purpose, to rebuild the star road, but he needs something to help him achieve that goal, so he possesses a doll. A doll with a gun for a hand. He has personality for being a star spirit. He is one of the few Mario characters who, imo, has a purpose, and builds character overtime. Again, imo, his uniqueness, character, and purpose is just something other Mario characters don't have. After his purpose is completed, he must return from where he came. It's like he is saying goodbye. It isn't a kind of goodbye like "see you next time!" It seems like his purpose is done, and he is leaving for good. This is why people are dying to see him make a grand return. Because this character has something other Mario characters don't, and fans want to see this again.

I hope you understand why we like Geno and want to see him make his glorious return
 

Fatmanonice

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hey, im a lot younger then yo geno fans and can i say that i fail to see the appeal? Maybe its because Super Mario RPG is my second least favorite Mario RPG (beats sticker star, but i havent played color splash yet) or possibly since im from a far later generation then you guys. I just dont get the reason to go through all this trouble when we still have one of the main mario villains missing in kamek, a major character in Toad, and countless RPG characters who are just as memorable as Geno.

What am i missing? Why geno in particular?
For me personally and to keep it brief:

-SMRPG came out when I was 8 years old so it's my favorite childhood game and Geno was my favorite character in it.

-I've always liked the concept of Geno. He's like a wizard mixed with a transforming mech. Just really out there as far as Mario characters go and nobody has been like him since.

-I see Smash Bros as the video game Hall of Fame so of course I want to see my favorite game and video game character represented in the most meaningful way possible.

-Geno in Smash would probably spur Nintendo to bring the rest of that universe's characters back or at least do a remake/remaster. Personally, I'd like Geno and Mallow to come back.
 

Zack E.

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Looks like there has been a mix-up. Yes, currently Joker and Brave's aerial lag is exactly the same but everything else isn't. Seems the server I got the aerial lag info on was wrong. Either way, it still stands that Brave is a child sized character with average speed but a floaty and a fast faller.
Is the brave character likely to be revealed second?
 
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Honestly it feels mildly anti-consumer to not just tell us what's in the pass

Like I bought it because I'll probably be satisfied with whatever they put in it but some people would only buy it if one of the characters they want like Banjo or Steve or something was in.
Well, if the pass has a bunch of heavy-hitters in it and they're shown off all at once, it might cause people to have heart attacks. The Internet can only take so much exploding.

Besides, they need to save those announcements for dead months that don't have much in the way of releases.

I love how everyone was surprised that all the bandwagon leaks don't look so credible anymore. Or that the original leak that was half-right about half it's prediction isn't looking 100% true anymore.
I just knew those leaks would be proven wrong sooner or later. Never take anything for granted.
 
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faygoshill

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Well, if the pass has a bunch of heavy-hitters in it and they're shown off at once, it might cause people to have heart attacks. The Internet can only take so much exploding.

Besides, they need to save those announcements for dead months that don't have much in the way of releases.
Yeah, I 100% understand the reasoning, I just think it feels a bit weird

Like if some other game like CoD did this thing where they introduced a season pass which had an exclusive bonus attached, but didn't even say what was in the pass, people would be kinda pissed

Then again maybe it's because people already have enough faith in Sakurai to make good characters and character movesets, whereas people's faith in CoD is.... wavering, to say the least.
 
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Yeah, I 100% understand the reasoning, I just think it feels a bit weird

Like if some other game like CoD did this thing where they introduced a season pass which had an exclusive bonus attached, but didn't even say what was in the pass, people would be kinda pissed

Then again maybe it's because people already have enough faith in Sakurai to make good characters and character movesets, whereas people's faith in CoD is.... wavering, to say the least.
Maybe I'm not up on the latest news but I thought most season passes didn't tell you exactly what everything would be, in this case we know its 5 fighters and 5 stages and music plus the Rex costume so its not like we know nothing about it.
 
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Yeah, I 100% understand the reasoning, I just think it feels a bit weird

Like if some other game like CoD did this thing where they introduced a season pass which had an exclusive bonus attached, but didn't even say what was in the pass, people would be kinda pissed

Then again maybe it's because people already have enough faith in Sakurai to make good characters and character movesets, whereas people's faith in CoD is.... wavering, to say the least.
Well, look at it this way; at least it's not like the DLC character cycle for Street Fighter IV.

>super secret fifth final character eventually gets shown off
>it's one of the Shadaloo dolls, not even an interesting one, but the one that looks like Cammy

I'm not even a hardcore SF fan and even I found this insulting.

Not that SFV doesn't have some baffling choices of its own (as far as picking Final Fight characters go, Abigail would be somewhere near the bottom of my list).
 
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I sincerely doubt it is an Undertale rep, and I can tell you why.

I'm a massive Undertale junkie. Heck, I've been a fan of Toby's work before Undertale even happened. I'd like to think I know Toby's ideals pretty well enough, and I can safely say Undertale reps in Smash would be an affront to them.

I could see Toby certainly wanting Undertale featured in Smash in a small way, perhaps via spirits, but in terms of a full, playable character, I can't see it. Having Undertale represented by so much as a corporate merchandiser was enough to turn him away, for he'd shot down those opportunities and went to Twitter over them. He prides Undertale in being a labor of love, not a 'franchise' or anything 'corporate'. Undertale being its own thing in Smash, being a franchise represented with a character, doesn't feel like a very Toby thing to do. He loves Smash, and he even made jabs at it in Deltarune, Undertale's sister game, but to go that far into the corporate rabbit hole with it is against everything he's publicly said about Undertale's future.

Plus, Shantae, the longest-running indie franchise under Nintendo's belt, being just a spirit? Shovel Knight, a Kickstarter success arguably bigger than Undertale, being an assist trophy? Yeah, I just don't see it happening.
I understand the thought process; but could you really imagine ANYONE turning down the opportunity for a playable smash fighter if asked? Especially an Indie Dev? Being in Smash is basically going down in video game history.
 
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I understand the thought process; but could you really imagine ANYONE turning down the opportunity for a playable smash fighter if asked? Especially an Indie Dev?
Honestly? Funnily enough, the only one I could imagine turning that down would be Toby Fox himself. He's a very humble and modest person, so I would not be surprised in the slightest.
 
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Honestly? Funnily enough, the only one I could imagine turning that down would be Toby Fox himself. He's a very humble and modest person, so I would not be surprised in the slightest.
I don't think I could ever see Toby ask Nintendo to put his characters in Smash. HOWEVER; I think he'd gratefully accept a Smash invitation if presented one, purely as a sign of respect for Sakurai. I'm not up to date on Japanese Culture, but I'm pretty sure passing on that would unintentionally come off as an insult.
 
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Honestly? Funnily enough, the only one I could imagine turning that down would be Toby Fox himself. He's a very humble and modest person, so I would not be surprised in the slightest.
I don't think I could ever see Toby ask Nintendo to put his characters in Smash. HOWEVER; I think he'd gratefully accept a Smash invitation if presented one, purely as a sign of respect for Sakurai. I'm not up to date on Japanese Culture, but I'm pretty sure passing on that would unintentionally come off as an insult.
Meanwhile, the jury is out on whether Daisuke Amaya would say yes to Quote being in Smash, since it's his creation first and foremost, and the guy isn't much of a public speaker. Sure, Nicalis would jump at the chance, but they would still need his approval.
 
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