Official General Post-DLC Discussion [Closed]

[NintenZ]

Gonna say it. Bettin on Cloud/Wolf/Pichu. No joke. They're the only vets not accounted for.

?
I wouldn't bet on that...
I also would highly recommend not betting on .

 

[Burruni]

Gonna say it. Bettin on Cloud/Wolf/Pichu. No joke. They're the only vets not accounted for.

And I legitimately don't see a reason for Pichu besides "muh vets."
Especially when Melee vets are harder to recreate for 4 than porting Brawl ones.

 

[NintenZ]

And I legitimately don't see a reason for Pichu besides "muh vets."
Especially when Melee vets are harder to recreate for 4 than porting Brawl ones.

Pichu also has specific animations that Pikachu doesn't have, so out of the two Melee vets he'd be the hardest to recreate.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

Ylink's back in Tink. So think that Tink's just a modelswap and he's done. ICs are dead no matter what, so just give up. Snake's gonna be in Kojima/Konami hell. Only two that might otherwise show up are Ivy/Squirt and that don't look good 'cause we've already got the Big Poke. Pichu's an easy port(copy Pika, add selfdmg), and Wolf is SF0. Pretty sure Dec. is the last time the band gets together and then dev is reduced to skeleton crew and stability/balance patches. Sakurai's ballot was probably just a thought exercise, like the Brawl one was.

 

[SonicMario]

If we're getting more veterans Wolf and Snake are our only options at this point barring the Ice Climbers becoming Ice Climber (With Popo and Nana becoming Alts ala Wii Fit Trainer and Robin)

 

[Deleted member]

I voted for

Shovel Knight
Inklings
King K. Rool
Shantae
Wolf
Bandana Dee
Krystal
Dixie Kong
Rayman

Also not so sure about Pichu and Ivysaur and Squirtle seriously doubt their inclusion. Wolf and Snake definetly them not so sure about.

 

[Burruni]

Ylink's back in Tink. So think that Tink's just a modelswap and he's done. ICs are dead no matter what, so just give up. Snake's gonna be in Kojima/Konami hell. Only two that might otherwise show up are Ivy/Squirt and that don't look good 'cause we've already got the Big Poke. Pichu's an easy port(copy Pika, add selfdmg), and Wolf is SF0. Pretty sure Dec. is the last time the band gets together and then dev is reduced to skeleton crew and stability/balance patches. Sakurai's ballot was probably just a thought exercise, like the Brawl one was.

Pichu has minimal demand, though.

The point of Veteran DLC is two fold.
A) Add characters cut due to time constraints
B) Appeal en large to previous Smash fans.

We have no evidence to believe Pichu is the former when he wasn't for Brawl, unlike .

And he's the second least requested veteran who would require a full model creation and then trying to rig it to work with 's animations and then also recreate his unique moves back from Melee.

He's not "an easy port." Because Melee's data is too old to properly port. We've had Sakurai say so deliberately about Mewtwo.

Let alone that he'd, effectively, have to be a pre-ballot choice and the concept of Sakurai dividing efforts of the team to bringing back 2 Pokemon Cut Veterans as part of DLC when only one of the 5 had high popularity is due for skeptics.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

Pichu has minimal demand, though.

The point of Veteran DLC is two fold.
A) Add characters cut due to time constraints
B) Appeal en large to previous Smash fans.

We have no evidence to believe Pichu is the former when he wasn't for Brawl, unlike .

And he's the second least requested veteran who would require a full model creation and then trying to rig it to work with 's animations and then also recreate his unique moves back from Melee.

He's not "an easy port." Because Melee's data is too old to properly port. We've had Sakurai say so deliberately about Mewtwo.

Pichu's got stuff going for him though. Movement is similar to pika. Bs are almost carbon-copies. Recovery'd be the same save some number tweaks. New model and bam, done. One or two unique anims don't kill him nearly as hard as being totally different characters like Ivy/Squirt do. Besides, Sakurai do what Sakurai do with regard to demand. The net got /bad/ when ROB got confirmed.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Pichu's got stuff going for him though. Movement is similar to pika. Bs are almost carbon-copies. Recovery'd be the same save some number tweaks. New model and bam, done. One or two unique anims don't kill him nearly as hard as being totally different characters like Ivy/Squirt do. Besides, Sakurai do what Sakurai do with regard to demand. The net got /bad/ when ROB got confirmed.

If Sakurai does what demand calls for, then Pichu isn't going to get picked. Wolf and Snake would.

 

[Burruni]

Pichu's got stuff going for him though. Movement is similar to pika. Bs are almost carbon-copies. Recovery'd be the same save some number tweaks. New model and bam, done. One or two unique anims don't kill him nearly as hard as being totally different characters like Ivy/Squirt do. Besides, Sakurai do what Sakurai do with regard to demand. The net got /bad/ when ROB got confirmed.

1) Your case is assuming that Squirt and Ivy were not worked on alongside Charizard but ultimately dropped when the 3DS couldn't handle transforming characters at all, and there's no data of them in the game period.
2) It also assumes that Brawl data isn't largely converted into Smash 4.
3) There is a WORLD of difference between choosing a retro character as a surprise for the roster and selecting a veteran to return as DLC. ROB didn't have to stand on his own to be worth the production cost.
4) "Sakurai do what Sakurai do" is just a different way of saying "Anything can happen" and in that regard I think we can say that Sakurai's choices with DLC are either highly requested veterans or characters that "we didn't know we wanted for Smash" or thought were "cool but impossible" for various reasons.

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest I'd be fine with any of them returning though. We'll soon see.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

I meant more that Sakurai is kinda 'lol' when it comes to demand. Ridley want through the roof? Gonna make him a boss kaydone. Mewtwo? lol dlc. K. Rool? hope you like miis. As I said, Sakurai do what Sakurai do. But I think the final trio's gonna be Wolf(SF0), Cloud(durr), and Pichu(closest thing to the 'full' roster). Can't say for sure, but I bet Sakura things PT is 'repped' by Char now, so he feels that Ivy/Squirt 'came back' through Char.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah he is who he is. Does his own thing. We'll see.

 

[Burruni]

I meant more that Sakurai is kinda 'lol' when it comes to demand. Ridley want through the roof? Gonna make him a boss kaydone. Mewtwo? lol dlc. K. Rool? hope you like miis. As I said, Sakurai do what Sakurai do. But I think the final trio's gonna be Wolf(SF0), Cloud(durr), and Pichu(closest thing to the 'full' roster). Can't say for sure, but I bet Sakura things PT is 'repped' by Char now, so he feels that Ivy/Squirt 'came back' through Char.

So, "Anything can happen" because
A) Sakurai went from "Ridley'd probably be impossible" as a fighter after Brawl to "Ridley doesn't work as a fighter" after Smash 4.
B) He deliberately held off a high-request veteran who'd take extra work, almost that of a Newcomer, to produce for DLC, with the initial idea of it being a gift to the fans.
C) K. Rool has a Mii costume.

Edit: This is ignoring how he's bent for People's Demands by getting characters like

And reasoning against Ivy and Squirtle who are less trouble? "Lol muh reps."
I didn't think I'd really see that usage of reps though, discriminating parts of a veteran from one another.
Next we'll be saying parts of characters moves will be cut because they rep too much of the same title.
This is like saying Sakurai was going to cut ZSS or Sheik from the main game because Samus and Zelda was good enough.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pichu was highly requested in his own right, at least according to Push's poll, which he puts out to as many websites as possible. He beat out Ivysaur and Squirtle by quite a bit. It is true that Ivysaur and Squirtle had more work done, but Pichu was also made by using similar animations to Pikachu. So he'd be easy to recreate as well.(Only Snake, Ice Climbers, and Wolf beat him out. Everybody else was lower than Pichu)

An issue with Ivysaur and Squirtle is that they're not nearly as popular as people say they are. They didn't exactly get in on their own merits, more just for Pokemon Trainer at best. Keep in mind Sakurai solely spoke of that when discussing Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon choices, so that's all we can determine right now. Charizard coming back does show that Sakurai considers him notable on his own, though.

That said, I don't think we're getting any more Pokemon DLC besides maybe a stage. It has quite a bit of content on its own, and there's other series to consider. Sakurai has already spoken about how he cares about balanced representation before(this is why Kirby had less content in Melee specifically than he could. Part of why King Dedede didn't make it in that game. Besides time constraints, of course).

 

[Erureido]

On the subject of who we voted for in the Smash Ballot, my Ballot votes went to:

Professor Layton (Twice)
Gallade (once)

And another vote went to...

Spoiler

Descole (once)

I know Descole literally has no chance right now since Layton is not in the game, not to mention Descole is nowhere of an iconic third-party villain compared to Dr. Wily, Dr. Eggman, and M.Bison, hence why I only voted for him once, but I felt like getting a vote out there to show there is at least one person in the world who has some interest in seeing Descole in Smash.

One vote went for Layton around the early days of the Ballot, the other on the very last day. One focused on Layton's moveset potential, the other on what he has going for him as a third party character. He was the only character who I gave more than one vote for because out of the three characters I voted for, he is the one with the best chance to join Smash.

With Gallade, I decided to give just one vote for him since I know his chances aren't the best for obvious Pokemon reasons (but nowhere as small of a chance compared to the character you found in the spoiler tag), but hey, at least I gave him a vote (and I'm sure I'm not the only one in the entire world that wants Gallade in Smash).

 

[Dinoman96]

I like Pichu but it'd be extremely underwhelming to finish off Smash 4's DLC period with him. If we really can't get Snake back for the last spot then I'd rather get another newcomer.

 

[Wolfie557]

All this veteran talk everytime makes me sad the Brawl Pokemon most probably ain't coming back.

Sakurai you were a fan of Squirtle (or so I heard), let your BS shine!

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I really doubt they'd add a full clone like Pichu for DLC honestly, unless they charged less but then it'd just become a waste of time

 

[Bluekirby2]

I voted for:
Ridley
Snake
Wolf
Chrom
Excadrill
K. Rool
Prince Fluff
Hades
And that's all that crosses my mind right now

Kind of wish I had voted for Phoinex Wright and Shovel Knight now.

 

[Joseppo]

If they add Pichu, they will add it in a pack with other cut veterans like Young Link (or so I think). I don't think they're going to release as DLC less popular and unasked for veterans one by one, because that would seem "cheap" or "no effort put in this", and even more if they were clones in the past, and their movesets remain unchanged or just a little tweaked.

 

[SonicMario]

Even Sakurai kinda viewed Pichu as a joke. Pichu wasn't present whatsoever in the "Forbidden 7" files for Brawl. Where Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario did (All of whom came back in Smash 4). While it's unclear what Pra_Mai was it's rumored to have been Plusle + Minun which would of been combining Pikachu with Ice Climbers and be Gen 3's Rep and likely Pichu's replacement.

 

[Bluekirby2]

I really think if we are going to get another pokemon, it should be Sceptile.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

I voted for:
Dixie Kong (multiple)
Krystal (multiple)
Wolf (multiple)
Impa (multiple)
Tetra
Ridley
Dark Samus
Sylux
Rundas
Bandana Dee
Paper Mario
Captain Toad
Isaac
Knuckles

I might have voted a few to many times

 

[Aetheri]

Considering what we've gotten for DLC...Pichu would be a very underwhelming, very disappointing reveal even if he came with a fully decloned and updated moveset...

We've received very popular veterans and Third party icons...Wolf and Snake make the most sense since they fit this criteria...Wolf highly requested and popular veteran and Snake a big third party icon...I didn't list Snake as a 'vet' simply because he'd be a huge reveal even if he wasn't a veteran...I mean he was a huge reveal back in Brawl especially since he opened the door for Third parties...sure his company has its issues but the combination of both Ryu and Cloud has me thinking that we should not underestimate Sakurai...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Takamaru
K. Rool (2x)
Daisy (2x)
Wolf
Dixie Kong
Azura
Magolor
Captain Toad
Azura
Nabbit
Inkling (while mentioning Captain Cuttlefish)

 

[Joseppo]

If we are going to get another pokemon, there's only one correct answer:

...

I know, I know, totally biased opinion here, but I always used him in my files and I like him a lot. And the Miror B. thing only made things worse.

The most logical option to add is Sceptile, because 3rd gen, Grass type, starter, popular and has a mega-evolution. But if I had to add a new starter (always after the return of Squirtle) it would be Totodile.

 

[Opossum]

Who'd I vote for?

Chrom, Henry Fleming, and the Inklings. Tossed in a single vote for solo-Popo as well.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

If we are going to get another pokemon, there's only one correct answer:

...

I know, I know, totally biased opinion here, but I always used him in my files and I like him a lot. And the Miror B. thing only made things worse.

The most logical option to add is Sceptile, because 3rd gen, Grass type, starter, popular and has a mega-evolution. But if I had to add a new starter (always after the return of Squirtle) it would be Totodile.

Lol nope is LoloPopDillio in Nintendo Badge Arcade?

Because Pidgey is.

Give your favorite Pokémon a new HOME on your #3DS with @Pokemon badges from Nintendo #BadgeArcade! pic.twitter.com/QkYguo9756

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) November 17, 2015

Power to the Pidgey!

 

[Geno Boost]

I only voted for Geno 10 times and I am happy that square-Enix are a part of this game.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Speaking of Nintendo Badge Arcade, our other Shoo-In is also an available badge.

Be prepared to be Bamboozled by Captain Cuttlefish guys.

 

[Gimmick]

Guys! I just thought of something! At the end of of the Direct they were playing Brawl music right? Brawl HD (Hardly Different) confirmed for Wii U! It fits perfectly in line with Twilight Princess.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Guys! I just thought of something! At the end of of the Direct they were playing Brawl music right? Brawl HD (Hardly Different) confirmed for Wii U! It fits perfectly in line with Twilight Princess.

But why would they bring Lucas back to Smash 4 if Brawl were to get a remake on the same system as Smash 4?

 

[SonicMario]

Guys! I just thought of something! At the end of of the Direct they were playing Brawl music right? Brawl HD (Hardly Different) confirmed for Wii U! It fits perfectly in line with Twilight Princess.

I'm sure this is a joke. But I think the usage of Brawl music meaning anything is reading too much into it. It's just Smash music used for Smash music sakes.

 

[Gimmick]

Eh... Come on guys. Do I really need to put kappa at the end of every joke?

 

[Halifax?]

What Cloud will actually cost me:

Cloud + Midgar Stage
* $5.99
Chocobo hat
* $0.75
Playstation 2
* $100.00
FFVI, VII, IX, X
* $50.00
Time
* ???
Rehab
* ???

Don't even get me started on Snake.

 

[NintenZ]

I literally just voted one character, and only one character. I felt it pointless to vote for more than one character as I didn't want to be spoiled about it, and I also knew that none of the others had any chances whatsoever. They either had an in-game role, were from an obscure franchise, or were third-party characters, so I decided to keep my vote to Bandana Dee. Not only that, but out of all of them he felt the most interesting, and I think that he really has potential be to an interesting and fun character. Something that Smash has never seen before. Plus he's from Sakurai's first franchise, and I feel that one needs more love, so yeah.

 

[Talpr1]

Pichu had its best chance at the end of the development of the base game, when they were choosing alts that eventually became clones. But instead they chose to bring back Dr. Mario(which I think is a better choice anyway, for a variety of reasons) and the rest is history. Right now, Pichu stands basically no chance, for one simple reason: it isn't popular, at all. It's not even a divisive character like Roy was, it's just not liked by the majority of people and only has an handful of supporters, which aren't even very vocal. I'm probably not exaggerating if I say that the time saved by developing Pichu instead of a full-fledged newcomer wouldn't repay the poor sales.

 

[TheSpitefulWolf]

I hear a lot of language that could've been applied to Roy too. I'm feeling the final DLC pack being Cloud/Pichu/Wolf and then they wrap development and focus on maintenance/patches.

 

[Gimmick]

IMO, final DLC will include the following...

Characters

• Cloud
• Wolf
• King K. Rool
• Issac

Stages

• Midgard
• *Insert Golden Sun Stage*
• Saffron City
• Fountain of Dreams
• Magicant for Wii U
• Luigi's Mansion for 3DS

Final Fantasy, Golden Sun, and Mortal Kombat mii costumes (as well as costumes from a few other franchises).