Meta General MU Help/Discussion

[ravemaster47]

I played ike in brawl, I played him because he was fun to use. Mega is no different. Winning is great, but not if you aren't having fun.

 

[SimplyChrono]

I really wasn't expecting anything amazing from megaman at evo tbh, the strongest megamans (zucco, ninjalink, scatt) didn't go except for seibrik which did ok but not that well.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Yeah fun is fun nd everything but winnimg is also fun, if not, whats the point of a fighting game? Also it would be cool winning tourneys to get the prize..

 

[ravemaster47]

I love the satisfaction of winning woth a lower tier character. Plus, a lot of lower tiers bring hyoe. (See brawl ike)

 

[Sorichuudo]

Yeah fun is fun nd everything but winnimg is also fun, if not, whats the point of a fighting game? Also it would be cool winning tourneys to get the prize..

If you really care about the prize, like Greward said, you will need a secondary and eventually secundaries become the main cause they are simply better, doesn't matter if your main is MM, The Pac, Captain Falcon etc.

I know how you feel Sneak, you said it once, is good to see what you love being sucessful, and while i would love to see Megaman doing well at this Evo, i am not surprised he didn't do much. Like Ravemaster said, the best Megas didn't went there, plus it was a custom tournament, i am more (happily) surprised we didn't get any Windkong on top 32.

But i don't care. I respect those who eventually switch from him cause he is not good enough to compete with the best, cause the whole point of the competion is first and foremost play to win, but, in my case, i see tournaments as more of a hobby, i want to do good with him. Maybe that will keep me from winning cause i'm "limiting my potential" but meh.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

If you really care about the prize, like Greward said, you will need a secondary and eventually secundaries become the main cause they are simply better, doesn't matter if your main is MM, The Pac, Captain Falcon etc.

I know how you feel Sneak, you said it once, is good to see what you love being sucessful, and while i would love to see Megaman doing well at this Evo, i am not surprised he didn't do much. Like Ravemaster said, the best Megas didn't went there, plus it was a custom tournament, i am more (happily) surprised we didn't get any Windkong on top 32.

But i don't care. I respect those who eventually switch from him cause he is not good enough to compete with the best, cause the whole point of the competion is first and foremost play to win, but, in my case, i see tournaments as more of a hobby, i want to do good with him. Maybe that will keep me from winning cause i'm "limiting my potential" but meh.

Thing is, I just hate Sheik xD
can someone tell me some smash stories of low tiers eventually becoming top tiers and winning tournies or low tiers simply winning big tournaments

 

[Sorichuudo]

Thing is, I just hate Sheik xD

We all do XD

 

[ravemaster47]

@Denti was an oil main back when oli was considered poop. Now he's one of the best characters in brawl.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

@Denti was an oil main back when oli was considered poop. Now he's one of the best characters in brawl.

What the heck is oilman?

 

[Sorichuudo]

What the heck is oilman?

Olimar?

 

[Greward]

Olimar was actually a mid tier at brawl's first tier list, along with diddy. They went up to top tier as time passed.

Some characters will go up and some will go down. Still we have patches this time around, so strong characters could change.

 

[ravemaster47]

I play denti quite regularly. Next time I sit down with him, I'll have some matches recorded of his yoshi and shiek..

 

[SimplyChrono]

Let's just wait for the inevitable sheik nerf so megaman can dominate the meta game Kappa

 

[Funkermonster]

If you really care about the prize, like Greward said, you will need a secondary and eventually secundaries become the main cause they are simply better, doesn't matter if your main is MM, The Pac, Captain Falcon etc.

I know how you feel Sneak, you said it once, is good to see what you love being sucessful, and while i would love to see Megaman doing well at this Evo, i am not surprised he didn't do much. Like Ravemaster said, the best Megas didn't went there, plus it was a custom tournament, i am more (happily) surprised we didn't get any Windkong on top 32.

But i don't care. I respect those who eventually switch from him cause he is not good enough to compete with the best, cause the whole point of the competion is first and foremost play to win, but, in my case, i see tournaments as more of a hobby, i want to do good with him. Maybe that will keep me from winning cause i'm "limiting my potential" but meh.

Lol funny you should say, cuz for me, the 2ndary becoming the main has already happened (and I doubt it'll happen again anytime soon). My original main was and I've been playing him for the longest time since 3DS, and I didn't pick up Mega Man until around mid December and I never initially planned on playing him at all. Slowly but surely, I grew more and more interested in the character and improved my skills with him overtime and eventually promoted him to 2ndary status along with Sonic (who I've been playing considerably less often lately, despite being a better character than both Mega and Gren). When attending my first national a couple months back, most of the time when I tried to use Greninja I fell apart and I was pretty dsappointed in my overall performance with him, but when I used Mega Man I actually got fairly far and managed to defeat all but one person in my pools an carry on into the next day and from then on I decided to make the switch and Greninja's now taken a back seat as secondary status. At the very least, I do better Mega Man because he's a little easier to use, if not a flat out better character than Greninja (although personally, I do feel he is slightly better and they're both good characters).

Honestly, in my experience I have rarely ever felt the need for a secondary since then and I believe the character is good enough to fly solo and still do fine. Imo, the only significant threats to Mega Man are Cpt. Falcon & Sheik (who threatens almost everyone anyway) and I personally consider him a low high tier, upper mid tier at the very worst in my eyes. I do think we have a few other bad MUs here and there (Greninja, Fox, maybe Rosalina & Pac-Man), but I don't think any of them become any worse than 40:60 and I find that we can do surprisingly well against a few of the supposed top tiers: Ness, Villager, Sanic, Weegee, ZSS, and even pre-1.0.6 Diddy Kong. Even when I do lose in a tournament, I usually feel its just my own fault and that I myself could've done better, rather than limitations of my character. He doesn't need a secondary imo. Granted, I do personally still 2nd Greninja and I pocket various characters, buts it more to keep myself entertained than anything else, as I get bored playing just Mega Man all the time.

I think Mega Man has potential to be very good, but he has a real tight learning curve and requires more work and dedication than most and is not a character one can simply pick up and get good results quickly. We have to put much more work and effort for our wins than we would for most other characters and that's not for everyone, and I think that's the reason people gravitate away from the character and he hasn't made the biggest splash yet, rather than for viability issues. Its also good to remember that the metagame is still fairly young and the game hasn't even been out for a full year, fighting games take a longer time to settle than this and things can always change when you least suspect it to.

These are all my opinions, though.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I think our toughest matchups are: ( and many are tough matchups for most characters)

Rosa luma
Sheik
Sonic


Borderline
Yoshi
Ness
Diddy

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

I think our toughest matchups are: ( and many are tough matchups for most characters)

Rosa luma
Sheik
Sonic


Borderline
Yoshi
Ness
Diddy

You know it is funny, some people think Sonic is at our side, same for Diddy and other think theopposite but people agree the most on one thing: Sheik

 

[Deleted member]

I really wasn't expecting anything amazing from megaman at evo tbh, the strongest megamans (zucco, ninjalink, scatt) didn't go except for seibrik which did ok but not that well.

He was streaming on Panda Gaming with ESAM and MVD and didn't look so hot then, so I wasn't even expecting much from him.

Let's just wait for the inevitable sheik nerf so megaman can dominate the meta game Kappa

 

[Funkermonster]

I'm gonna have to disagree with everyone on that list except Sheik.

Ness and Diddy are definitely not bad MUs for us. Lemons annihilate Diddy's Banana game and mess with most of his stuff onstage. Diddy's recovery is also really weak and very predictable and limited, most of the time he has to recover high with sideB and its endlag can easily be punished with Slash Claw or Charge Shot to just knock him offstage again or kill him outright, and most of the time he should never recover low (if he does, just turn on leaf shield and/or z-drop a metal blade to strip him of his jetpack). Diddy has never really been much an issue to be honest, and imo he isn't even slightly terrible now that he's had his best qualities nerfed, twice. Lemons and metal blades mess with Ness too and he too has a bad recovery, and while his aerial game is amazing his ground game is a little weak & he doesn't have the greatest mobility, can be harassed with our projectiles nce and easy. Should he fail to juggle mega man with PK thunder you can also get a fun kill with an Utilt to the face while he leaves himself wide open. His godlike kill moves and combo game do make him a hassle, but I think we beat him and Diddy by 60:40.

I don't think Sonic or Yoshi are disadvantageous for us either. Sonic has a very linear approach game and in general struggles against zoning characters with strong walls (unless their names are Duck Hunt, Samus, Robin, or Link, in which case Sonic is 2fast) , and smart lemoning will make approaching hell for him and he's pretty reliant on a bait and punish game. His whole approach game is essentially "rely on my opponent to make a mistake" an "try to make him mess up", the best thing his approach can do is manipulate you into doing something dumb, and if you don't make enough mistakes for him to punish he should have a very hard time winning. He can't use his spindash combos as easily in this matchup since lemons can hit him out of it and so can shield + leaf shield, and his landing options SUCK and anytime you catch him into the air you can punish his landings with Charge Shot, Top Spin, or Air Shooter nice and easy and he should rarely come back to the ground safely; he doesn't have a move to puts a good hitbox right below him and you essentially want to stay right underneath Sonic anytime he's airborne. He's definitely annoying though and still has the mobility to catch up with us and higher damage to boot, and while his landing options are crap we don't really wanna be above him either and he still has better kill moves than we do too (although, he doesn't have any setups into them), and overall has a bigger advantaged game. Overall though, I think the matchup is 50:50 at worst, and I think we are the ones who win this, actually. Yoshi I think is even to be honest, or maybe even slightly in our favor. He's pretty reliant on his eggs and Fair spacing for the neutral game, and lemons help deal with both of those. His frame data is good (but not godlike like many make to out to be), but most of his other moves have very small range an good spacing should keep him from getting in. Once you learn how to edgeguard him properl its not so bad, most of the time he won't mak it back if he gets hit after his double jump and his UpB has too small a boost to save hm if that happens, and if you manage to get a footstool on him its bye bye Yoshi. He's annoying, but I can think of other characters worse than him.

I do believe Rosalina has the edge but not by a significant margin. Crash Bomber does wonders to help peck at Luma and Metal Blades can pierce through and ht both of them (es, she can GP these, but its very punishable at mid range where you should always be fighting in the first place), I think we have easier ways of getting rid of him than other characters do and Rosalna without a Luma becomes a whole lot weaker, she'd be low tier if she never had them: Loses a lot of offensive pressure, kill power, combo potential & amage output, priority, and her aerials all basically become 2x worse; and she still has her low mobility and very low weight that she already suffered before. Not to mention her recovery doesn't have a hitbox and you can intercept it with Bair, Leaf Shield, and Z-drop MBs. Even if you don't kill her, she's still going to take damage to get closer to death %, and she isn't one who can sustain a lot of it due to her severe lack of weight. She can try to run away until Luma comes back, but again her mobility isn't all that great and she can still be caught. I do think she still wins, but barely.




Honestly, I find these guys worse/potentially worse than the characters you mention:

 

[ravemaster47]

I agree with rosaluma. Lately when playing them, as soon as I smack Luma away. I'm usually tearing Rosa apart. I still think it's in her favor, just not as much as I initially thought. I haven't played enough Diddy longs to agree, but the ones I have played still get walled by lemons

Ness is one I don't think is in our favor. But not by much. I use MB a lot or bait a grab if I catch them with CB. I also stick to as max range as possible and apply pressure through projectiles.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

I'm gonna have to disagree with everyone on that list except Sheik.

Ness and Diddy are definitely not bad MUs for us. Lemons annihilate Diddy's Banana game and mess with most of his stuff onstage. Diddy's recovery is also really weak and very predictable and limited, most of the time he has to recover high with sideB and its endlag can easily be punished with Slash Claw or Charge Shot to just knock him offstage again or kill him outright, and most of the time he should never recover low (if he does, just turn on leaf shield and/or z-drop a metal blade to strip him of his jetpack). Diddy has never really been much an issue to be honest, and imo he isn't even slightly terrible now that he's had his best qualities nerfed, twice. Lemons and metal blades mess with Ness too and he too has a bad recovery, and while his aerial game is amazing his ground game is a little weak & he doesn't have the greatest mobility, can be harassed with our projectiles nce and easy. Should he fail to juggle mega man with PK thunder you can also get a fun kill with an Utilt to the face while he leaves himself wide open. His godlike kill moves and combo game do make him a hassle, but I think we beat him and Diddy by 60:40.

I don't think Sonic or Yoshi are disadvantageous for us either. Sonic has a very linear approach game and in general struggles against zoning characters with strong walls (unless their names are Duck Hunt, Samus, Robin, or Link, in which case Sonic is 2fast) , and smart lemoning will make approaching hell for him and he's pretty reliant on a bait and punish game. His whole approach game is essentially "rely on my opponent to make a mistake" an "try to make him mess up", the best thing his approach can do is manipulate you into doing something dumb, and if you don't make enough mistakes for him to punish he should have a very hard time winning. He can't use his spindash combos as easily in this matchup since lemons can hit him out of it and so can shield + leaf shield, and his landing options SUCK and anytime you catch him into the air you can punish his landings with Charge Shot, Top Spin, or Air Shooter nice and easy and he should rarely come back to the ground safely; he doesn't have a move to puts a good hitbox right below him and you essentially want to stay right underneath Sonic anytime he's airborne. He's definitely annoying though and still has the mobility to catch up with us and higher damage to boot, and while his landing options are crap we don't really wanna be above him either and he still has better kill moves than we do too (although, he doesn't have any setups into them), and overall has a bigger advantaged game. Overall though, I think the matchup is 50:50 at worst, and I think we are the ones who win this, actually. Yoshi I think is even to be honest, or maybe even slightly in our favor. He's pretty reliant on his eggs and Fair spacing for the neutral game, and lemons help deal with both of those. His frame data is good (but not godlike like many make to out to be), but most of his other moves have very small range an good spacing should keep him from getting in. Once you learn how to edgeguard him properl its not so bad, most of the time he won't mak it back if he gets hit after his double jump and his UpB has too small a boost to save hm if that happens, and if you manage to get a footstool on him its bye bye Yoshi. He's annoying, but I can think of other characters worse than him.

I do believe Rosalina has the edge but not by a significant margin. Crash Bomber does wonders to help peck at Luma and Metal Blades can pierce through and ht both of them (es, she can GP these, but its very punishable at mid range where you should always be fighting in the first place), I think we have easier ways of getting rid of him than other characters do and Rosalna without a Luma becomes a whole lot weaker, she'd be low tier if she never had them: Loses a lot of offensive pressure, kill power, combo potential & amage output, priority, and her aerials all basically become 2x worse; and she still has her low mobility and very low weight that she already suffered before. Not to mention her recovery doesn't have a hitbox and you can intercept it with Bair, Leaf Shield, and Z-drop MBs. Even if you don't kill her, she's still going to take damage to get closer to death %, and she isn't one who can sustain a lot of it due to her severe lack of weight. She can try to run away until Luma comes back, but again her mobility isn't all that great and she can still be caught. I do think she still wins, but barely.




Honestly, I find these guys worse/potentially worse than the characters you mention:

I thinl Rosalina is actually at our favor, why? Because CB becomes a better projectile against her, and her down b is just a senseless time waster, its right she can easily outrange us with her attacks amd we cannot combo her with the Lima but we can attack her from the back with a lot of things since she has a huge hutbox, not sure about this but I dont think she has combos either, and heroff stage game is predictable and you can easily gimp her, this is a match were you may think it is a her favor because she gots an antiprojectile and you cannoy combo or pellet her, but she is a floaty so we can easily juggle her, and with a little prediction you can take advantage of her huge hurtbox, in this matchup its just better to use up throw than dthrow IMO

 

[Greward]

IMO:

+3:
+2:
+1:
0:
-1:
-1.5:
-2:
-2.5:
-3:

Some of them I'm not super sure though, customs off

 

[Funkermonster]

With all due respect, I'm gonna have to disagree with that list quite a lot. Mario being -3 is really pushing it imo, I honestly don't think he, ZSS, or ZSS are bad MUs at all. But more importantly: ROB, Pikachu & Game Watch (especially ROB) Bad MUs? I'm sorry but...... Why? Just... why?

 

[Greward]

With all due respect, I'm gonna have to disagree with that list quite a lot. Mario being -3 is really pushing it imo, I honestly don't think he, ZSS, or ZSS are bad MUs at all. But more importantly: ROB, Pikachu & Game Watch (especially ROB) Bad MUs? I'm sorry but...... Why? Just... why?

I might be wrong or have some biased matchup opinions so take it with a grain of salt. Of course you can disagree lol
About the Mario matchup, I feel it's... super bad. I guess you can watch ally vs scatt to have a glimpse on the matchup.
ZSS is bad because we can't do much if she goes aggresive. We can't do anything about his nair shield pressure, down B combined with tether makes it easy for her to recover, and in the end if she doesn't whiff a grab we ain't gonna do a lot. Her combo game hurts a lot too. Not really viable to keep away from her with projectiles and close combat we shouldn't win.

So why ROB is imo bad: He outcamps us. Pretty much that. ROB can jump over pellets and throw a gyro on our face, which hurts a lot and sets up for tech chase. He got good kill options with kind off everything. Hoo Haa is scary as ****, although he can't grab that easily. Up air hurts him too. He is very hard to gimp if he recovers low with some up air mixups. Could have put it up as -1 instead of -1.5, but I'm pretty sure he has the upper hand.

-1 isn't that bad tho, just slight disadvantage.

 

[ravemaster47]

Rob is just a character I can't deal.with very well. But I love the crazy stuff we can do with his gyro.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

IMO:

+3:
+2:
+1:
0:
-1:
-1.5:
-2:
-2.5:
-3:

Some of them I'm not super sure though, customs off

Lucario Pit and.. Mario? I must disagree specially with Mario since once you know the matchup and m,ake your projectiles unpredictable you can easily zone, also he needs to approach and if he reacklessly spams fireballs we can diagonal MB to Up tilt, we can also approach with Ftilt to nair and if we time it right, we can gimp him; with Pit I would say I havent played that much high level Pits but I know that on the start of the game he was a tough matchup with orbitar but then once you stop using fsmash recklessly you can easily gimp him and punish his laggy attacks, and Lucario?? Why Lucario? Ive found him to be one of the easiest matchups (perhaps because I dont remember fighting a good one) we can easily zone him qith lemons and theres almost nothing he can do, also we can predict his on stage landinda and kill him without much risk by btrhowing him at high percentages

 

[Deleted member]

I might be wrong or have some biased matchup opinions so take it with a grain of salt. Of course you can disagree lol
About the Mario matchup, I feel it's... super bad. I guess you can watch ally vs scatt to have a glimpse on the matchup.
ZSS is bad because we can't do much if she goes aggresive. We can't do anything about his nair shield pressure, down B combined with tether makes it easy for her to recover, and in the end if she doesn't whiff a grab we ain't gonna do a lot. Her combo game hurts a lot too. Not really viable to keep away from her with projectiles and close combat we shouldn't win.

So why ROB is imo bad: He outcamps us. Pretty much that. ROB can jump over pellets and throw a gyro on our face, which hurts a lot and sets up for tech chase. He got good kill options with kind off everything. Hoo Haa is scary as ****, although he can't grab that easily. Up air hurts him too. He is very hard to gimp if he recovers low with some up air mixups. Could have put it up as -1 instead of -1.5, but I'm pretty sure he has the upper hand.

-1 isn't that bad tho, just slight disadvantage.

Pretty much this. I can beat ROB, when they don't know how to zone me. And are just using NAir recklessly and FAir. Easy money. But a ROB that ACTUALLY knows how to zone, is extremely frustrating.
He def outcamps Mega Man. Lemons and MB's are great and all, but don't do anything to his laser, which outranges us, and the gyro can easily limit our mixups.

And agreed on Mario. Yes, we can mix up our projectile options, but Mario still closes distance easily, has great speed and frame data, great approaches, his fireballs can dip under and over lemons and metal blades, and of course we all talk about how we just mixup our projectiles so he can't cape them, but Mario's cape comes out fast and he can act out of it quickly.

Personally, I might say Sheik is worse for Mega than Mario, but that's because I've been grinding a lot lately, with Sheik's. But a GOOD Mario, I'd dtend to agree with his placement. But it can change, perhaps.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Some of it is a bit iffy. But for the post above, ROB can easily out-camp Mega Man. And put up a wall that prevents Mega Man from even zoning, p

Pretty much this. I can beat ROB, when they don't know how to zone me. And are just using NAir recklessly and FAir. Easy money. But a ROB that ACTUALLY knows how to zone, is extremely frustrating.
He def outcamps Mega Man. Lemons and MB's are great and all, but don't do anything to his laser, which outranges us, and the gyro can easily limit our mixups.

And agreed on Mario. Yes, we can mix up our projectile options, but Mario still closes distance easily, has great speed and frame data, great approaches, his fireballs can dip under and over lemons and metal blades, and of course we all talk about how we just mixup our projectiles so he can't cape them, but Mario's cape comes out fast and he can act out of it quickly.

Personally, I might say Sheik is worse for Mega than Mario, but that's because I've been grinding a lot lately, with Sheik's. But a GOOD Mario, I'd dtend to agree with his placement. But it can change, perhaps.

Ive played yhe matchup many times, it isnt as frustrating once you respect cape and know how to zone pellets

 

[ravemaster47]

Ive played yhe matchup many times, it isnt as frustrating once you respect cape and know how to zone pellets

I agree with this. I hardly ever lose to a mario. It can be a bit annoying, but once you get a feel of that particular marios style, the game is easy. I'm still having a bit of issues gimp in him, but doesn't matter when I b throw or MB to utilt him.

 

[Locke 06]

If any matchups are legit easy, you're either playing people of unequal skill, someone who doesn't know the matchup, or someone who plays someone Mega hard counters.

Mario is not someone Mega hard counters. I think that much should be agreed upon.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

If any matchups are legit easy, you're either playing people of unequal skill, someone who doesn't know the matchup, or someone who plays someone Mega hard counters.

Mario is not someone Mega hard counters. I think that much should be agreed upon.

I have fought a lot of Marios and it is not easy (I will call even) but there isnt something broken from Mario that strikes us

 

[ChopperDave]

Mario is pretty rough. I can definitely see him having the advantage against us, though I'm not sure if I would go so far as to call it -3, yet.

I would argue that he has the best (non-customs) reflector in the game, period. As far as I can tell, Mario is the only character who can reflect a Metal Blade, then dash in and punish us before we recover from the hitstun. That's rough, and makes Metal Blade harder to use against a good Mario. Obviously fsmash is a no go, but that's a bad move for us in general so it's not a big loss.

We also have a hard time dealing with fireball camping, as others have mentioned, due to the way they can bounce around our pellets. Mario can gimp us with his cape if we're not careful. AND he has really good frame data and safe KO moves.

Like with Sheik, I'm increasingly finding that I like Rush Coil in this matchup. Most of Mario's best approaches seem to be from the air (given his great aerial mobility), and his ground approaches aren't great, so hiding behind Rush can help mess up his spacing and set up a juggle if he bounces off it. He also doesn't have a great answer to Leaf Shield due to his general lack of disjointed attacks and mediocre grab range. And he is fairly gimpable if we get him off stage.

Still, if our best options are lemons, Rush, and Leaf Shield, it's probably not a great MU for us.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I think Mario is an even matchup or slightly disadvantageous.

He is such good kill power with his unlaggy smash attacks.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

I still dont get you guys, Mario's cape is good but it can be conditioned, once your opponent conditions to use cape you can perfect shield it and gran Mario, also his aerial mobility gets screwd with good pellet zoning and fsmash do is useful, just dont make it predictible, lile pivot fsmash or uturn fsmash, and fireballs can be perfect shield amd you can run to punish Mario or you can even jump them and throw a diagonal metalblade to something

 

[Greward]

Fireball and the cape aren't the main worries a Mega Man player can have in the matchup.

Mario got a combination of great aerial speed, excelent frame data and non laggy moves. He can easily get in our face, and the combo power he has on Mega Man is ridicolous. The matchup is bad because Mega has little options to avoid Mario and he racks damage extremely fast. He needs few punishes to get us into kill % while we need a lot and he also has an easier time getting the superior position and can abuse it more.

This set pretty much shows the matchup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr6NBmYHGj0

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Fireball and the cape aren't the main worries a Mega Man player can have in the matchup.

Mario got a combination of great aerial speed, excelent frame data and non laggy moves. He can easily get in our face, and the combo power he has on Mega Man is ridicolous. The matchup is bad because Mega has little options to avoid Mario and he racks damage extremely fast. He needs few punishes to get us into kill % while we need a lot and he also has an easier time getting the superior position and can abuse it more.

This set pretty much shows the matchup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr6NBmYHGj0

TBH Scatt did a lot of mistakes and the other dude just overplayed him

 

[ravemaster47]

I'd say it is even, if not slightly in marios favor. I just know the matchup.pretty well.

 

[Greward]

The thing is, that set is important because it shows the matchup played at high level.

Scatt is one of the best Mega players in america and Ally is the same for Mario. Scatt definitely struggles in that certain matchup as Mega Man, noting that he only gets 1 stock out of ally over 3 games.
When he counterpicks to Ganondorf, he actually wins games and does a better job in the matchup.
So, either Mega is even against mario and Ganondorf is a hard counter to Mario, or scatt is way better as a Ganondorf player than a Mega Man player, or scatt is super bad in the matchup as mega man and ally is super good in the matchup and scatt can't adapt over two sets. Or else we can disregard scatt as a not so good player.

Of course scatt did mistakes, but the important thing is the comparison between the success he had with Mega Man and Ganondorf.

Matchups assume the highest level of play. A point where both players know the matchup perfectly and are at the best point with their respective chars. This is theoretycal of course and can't be done in reality. But the closest we have to that is watching how the best players of each character do when they fight each other.
Of course my opinion of Mario being a bad MU doesn't come only from watching that set. A bad matchup doesn't mean you actually have to lose against all the marios you face, different skill levels exist and not everyone is entitled to know the matchup they are facing.

 

[CopShowGuy]

Mario seems to be getting faster. He doesn't easily get in, but when he does, it spells trouble.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

In this battle you can appreciate the matchup against Luigi, let me know what do you think about the Pivot fsmashes

 

[Lufos]

IMO:

+3:
+2:
+1:
0:
-1:
-1.5:
-2:
-2.5:
-3:

Some of them I'm not super sure though, customs off

For me, are DEFINATELY the hardest. Even though I think that comes down to me as a player being terrible in the matchup. It can also just mean that I play good players of these characters more often than others.