[General] First/Second Party DLC Support Thread

osby

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#42
I think he actually thinks people enjoy seeing their characters as AT’s and didn’t realize people saw it as a death sentence. As happy as I am that Isaac at least showed back up after missing in Smash 4 I was still depressed to see him as an AT when it was revealed.
Likely because people do like Assist Trophies.

The only hate I saw them getting is "they killed my fave's chances!" which is ignorant of how character selection and development works.
 
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#44
Likely because people do like Assist Trophies.

The only hate I saw them getting is "they killed my fave's chances!" which is ignorant of how character selection and development works.
And people like playable characters more. Especially when it comes to a wanted character.

Of course a character’s fate is decided at development so if a character is an AT then that’s what they were going to be. People are still obviously disappointed when it happens. This of course does not excuse some people directing hate at the developers.
 
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#45
I still think that, if we ever get another fighter's pass, it should be based around Assist Trophy Fighters becoming playable characters. Since we're running thin on notable Third Party choices for future "possible" DLC, the next best thing would be promoting fan-favorite picks from the Assist Trophy roster.

But that's just me. I don't know if that's actually a good idea or not.
 
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#46
I still think that, if we ever get another fighter's pass, it should be based around Assist Trophy Fighters becoming playable characters. Since we're running thin on notable Third Party choices for future "possible" DLC, the next best thing would be promoting fan-favorite picks from the Assist Trophy roster.

But that's just me. I don't know if that's actually a good idea or not.
I mean....as an Isaac fan I’m all for it. But if a character is an AT then Sakurai likely never had any thought about making that character playable. Because if he did I don’t think they would want to waste time and effort creating one if they were going to toss it out down the line.

Unless of course they somehow keep the AT in anyways and just turn it off if said character is being used by a player. I guess anything is possible.
 

Among Waddle Dees

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#47
Thank you for making this thread. I cannot seem to articulate my disappointment with Sakurai's team supposedly missing the point of Smash's original marketing, without looking like I don't want Smash to expand. News flash: I don't, or at least not in the fashion it seems to be going.

More and more, it feels like Smash is abandoning its limitations to grant impossible dreams. But this mentality seems to be at the cost of actually fixing what's been established. This threat has been in effect since the ballot, but in that instance there was a possibility that the ballot would influence future character decisions. Sure, this was true to an extent... way after the fact, at least, but I'm worried that the ballot no longer applies. With Sakurai dismissing certain choices, implying that fan demand will no longer be the priority, and setting up Ultimate's DLC as if there will be nothing for old franchises, I'm really starting to grow disillusioned.

I haven't had a character I've specifically wanted and got since Brawl. I've never been a big fan of importing characters from outside series, and sure, the occasional novelty like Banjo is welcoming, but it shouldn't be the focus of the "Ultimate" Smash.
 
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#48
Likely because people do like Assist Trophies.

The only hate I saw them getting is "they killed my fave's chances!" which is ignorant of how character selection and development works.
This.

Assist trophies are very much enjoyed by people and everyone seems to agree we should have first party characters in these roles. The problem comes with nobody seeming to agree what the threshold for what should be a character and what should be an assist trophy.

I've seen people argue the assist role should be for secondary characters from franchises(such as Waluigi or Krystal), it should be made up of niche series that are unlikely to get playable characters(such as Saki or Starfy), or it should be both.

--------------------

On topic, we've got a fair few characters left who I feel could still be pretty neat. Some are a little reaching but I've seen support for a lot of these guys;

Nintendo characters 1.png


I'm not hugely familiar with Fire Emblem or Metroid so I may have missed some big names, but I still managed to fill a roster full of characters before I even started delving into the 'other catagory'
 
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#49
This.

Assist trophies are very much enjoyed by people and everyone seems to agree we should have first party characters in these roles. The problem comes with nobody seeming to agree with what the threshold for what should be a character and what should be an assist trophy.

I've seen people argue the assist role should be for secondary characters from franchises(such as Waluigi or Krystal), it should be made up of niche series that are unlikely to get playable characters(such as Saki or Starfy), or it should be both.

--------------------

On topic, we've got a fair few characters left who I feel could still be pretty neat. Some are a little reaching but I've seen support for a lot of these guys;

View attachment 228386

I'm not hugely familiar with Fire Emblem or Metroid so I may have missed some big names, but I still managed to fill a roster full of characters before I even started delving into the 'other category'
Is there a general want for the Other M boys (Anthony and Adam)? Huh...

But with Assist Trophies, it's a bit...odd when one gets announced. Seeing old/forgotten characters getting revamped for their new roles as assists can create a genuine pop or new interest in that character to be playable in the future. Like Little Mac from brawl or Dark Samus/Isabell from 4.

But when characters are constantly ATs even when they have a massive groundswell of support (Like Waluigi, for example) then the negative connotations of fan favorites becoming ATs starts to creep in, I feel.
 

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#50
I'm going to give mention to Sukapon since I believe he's the next most deserving retro rep and could have potentially inspired Ubisoft's mascot.
 
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ROBnWatch

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#51
Oh good, I’m not the only one who doesn’t want the Fighters Pass to be strictly 3rd party. Anyways, a few characters I’d like to see/are likely from Nintendo...

1. Porky. Probably just the EarthBound fan in me, but this would be my above all dream pick. There’s some “evidence” it could happen seeing as he doesn’t have a Spirit yet (he’s the only Smash Bros. Boss without one), but I know it still might be unlikely. Regardless, someone made up this awesome moveset, and I think it would be really great in Smash. He’s the last true villain from the series that are represented in Smash 64, and I’d love to see it happen. https://m.imgur.com/a/yRRMP6t

The rest are in no particular order (just the order I remembered them in my head), and also without much explanation...sorry.

2. Dixie Kong. With K. Rool in, the last prominent DK rep is Dixie. Could borrow some things from Diddy, but would have a mostly unique moveset that implements her hair as an up special and possibly a few other attacks.

3. Rex and Pyra or Mythra. Sakurai is already a fan of the Xenoblade series, and I don’t think Mii costumes deconfirm characters. Don’t know much about Xenoblade but I’m sure Sakurai could create something unique so the character doesn’t have a similar moveset to Shulk. Only downside to this is that it’s another sword character.

4. Bandana Dee. The not-as-important, important, 4th Kirby party member. We have the core 3, but if we get another, Bandana Dee should be it (since Marx might be one of the only other options and he’s a boss). A unique spear user who could bring an interesting moveset to the game.

5. A Pokemon Sword and Shield Rep OR FE: Three Houses Rep. Basically would be put in to get hype for the next game in the series/further the hype for the game. No idea how they would work yet. Downside is we get another character from a series that already has a pretty good amount of representation.

6. An ARMS character. Spring Man is already an AT, so that eliminates him I’d think (same reason Waluigi isn’t on this list). But that’s OK, I feel Spring Man would be a bit generic. But it still leaves the door open for others. Helix, Mechanica, Kid Cobra, Byte & Barq, or any of the others (including the ones that already have Spirits, but I’d give them a lower chance). I guess they would kinda function like a longer ranged Little Mac? But I’m sure Sakurai could incorporate a few new ideas to keep the character fresh.

Last mention goes to a character I’d like to see as an Echo Fighter, and that would be...

7. Octoling. I mean, it’s a pretty easy Echo I’d think to put over Inkling. And from what I saw, there were a lot of people who enjoyed the Octolings once they were playable in Splatoon 2. Don’t know that it’ll happen since they’re avoiding Echo Fighters for this pass, but maybe after the pass along with 1-2 other Echoes? I dunno.

And that’s who I’d like to see/think is likely. Really would like the last 2 in the Fighters Pass to be first party, but with the way it’s going so far I have my doubts. But here’s hoping!
 
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_Sheik

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#54
The big "why the hell haven't we got these already" ones;
Captain Toad or Toad.
There's dozens of them, but he's Player 3/4 of the Mario canon, has his own games and is easily the most prominent character from Nintendo that isn't playable yet. Should have been in yet, has been passed over for more minor characters for years. Either Toad should come with a Toadette alt, and that girl's also got a more impressive resume than most the Nintendo picks in recent years with her roles
Dixie Kong. Has her own game in DKC3, was the most useful Kong in Tropical Freeze.
Bandana Waddle Dee. Doesn't have his own game but is either player 4 or 2 depending on the Kirby game. Huge popularity in Japan and the west.
Waluigi. Finish off the core Mario cast with him and the Toads and frankly perfect Mario roster.

The slightly more vague ones:
Zelda character:
Okay it's been far too long, but we should have had about three Zelda characters by this point that aren't Link. Impa would be my number one choice, but Tingle, Skull Kid, Vaati and one shots like Midna and Ghirahim have good reasons for inclusion too. Honestly a bit of a crime we don't have anything bar Link and Zelda reincarnations and Ganondorf.
Xenoblade character: Cannot decide between Rex/Pyra and Elma honestly. I don't think every Xeno needs a character in Smash as the series isn't THAT big, but probably we should have gotten one or the other.
ARMS character: Springman, Ribbon Girl or if you're feeling bolder; Twintelle or Min Min whom I'm led to believe are the most popular characters. ARMS didn't blow away like Splatoon did, but it was far from a flop and was well recieved. Nintendo should be encouraged to try their new IPs.

Outside them Paper Mario is acceptable, although more Paper Mario Stages would be a bigger draw for me than a character.

Chibi-Robo, Dillon and Isaac are fun smaller franchise ideas, but Hero sort of cribs Isaac's magic swordsman thing more than even Robin did.

Not that it matters since Isaac alongside Waluigi, Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Springman and Dillon are stuck in AT hell, alongside Toad being stuck in moveset hell. But I'd be far more pumped for the top section's characters than anything we've had in the Fighters Pass thus far. Including Banjo.

Magic swordsman is a VERY broad category (or is it just the case for Golden Sun?) Robin had nothing, literally nothing, on Isaac. As for DQ... maybe the heroes displayed a few similar spells, but that has still little bearing on the infinity of Isaac's potential?
 

UserKev

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#55
Growing support for Andross. Andross could be a really interesting and quality addition. His Final Smash could be the obvious while his original monkey body is playable in a lab coat.
 
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#56
Magic swordsman is a VERY broad category (or is it just the case for Golden Sun?) Robin had nothing, literally nothing, on Isaac. As for DQ... maybe the heroes displayed a few similar spells, but that has still little bearing on the infinity of Isaac's potential?
It really depends for me how Isaac is implemented at this point. I'm aware Isaac has a plethora of interesting abilities, I just don't entirely trust Sakurai to not go for moves he can port from other similar characters after seeing Hero's basic movements borrowing seemingly quite heavily from Link.

I'd imagine at the very least Isaac's assist abilities would be implemented, but outside of that I wonder exactly which of his many abilities would get prioritised...
 

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#57
Thank you for making this thread. I cannot seem to articulate my disappointment with Sakurai's team supposedly missing the point of Smash's original marketing, without looking like I don't want Smash to expand. News flash: I don't, or at least not in the fashion it seems to be going.

More and more, it feels like Smash is abandoning its limitations to grant impossible dreams. But this mentality seems to be at the cost of actually fixing what's been established. This threat has been in effect since the ballot, but in that instance there was a possibility that the ballot would influence future character decisions. Sure, this was true to an extent... way after the fact, at least, but I'm worried that the ballot no longer applies. With Sakurai dismissing certain choices, implying that fan demand will no longer be the priority, and setting up Ultimate's DLC as if there will be nothing for old franchises, I'm really starting to grow disillusioned.

I haven't had a character I've specifically wanted and got since Brawl. I've never been a big fan of importing characters from outside series, and sure, the occasional novelty like Banjo is welcoming, but it shouldn't be the focus of the "Ultimate" Smash.
Currently it looks like that this becoming "Ultimate Smash" is becoming synonymous with becoming a peak of all videogaming history at large to as many fanbases and general perception of it - through use of many well-known videogame icons or current critically acclaimed series being in this series as possible. That's basically what might have been the pipe dream a decade or more ago due Smash having various icons in gaming, naturally - and a great gameplay to boot on that base. Now it's running full-steam, and I wonder how far it can go. People being happy about it very nice and all but... :mybodyisreggie:

What bums me about this is that not only Smash is losing it's original vision it had in expense of non-hypable 1st/2nd Party characters, but I am feeling squeamish upon watching all these companies allowing characters to be in Smash after not been at their best in recent years (Konami especially), usually in lieu of doing some revival promotion. Not that it's bad, but in face of other dead IPs these companies have...

It kind of dumbs these companies down further from how they were amazing back in day ("Nintendo should buy *insert series/company here* because they suck today) , and now be only remembered for few game series that were in history of Nintendo and beyond - along this is it feels now like fans pushing Smash to have all these 3rd Parties back in the past now get to revel on this implication that Nintendo's getting the long-wanted credit for being the gaming giant, over all these other companies with their own amazing series and history and heeding that until the day Nintendo would have to "buy these companies" because they can't do a thing for themselves (at least, competently compared to Nintendo today). Like, Smash now having Bayonetta and Persona, could have been amazing assets to a SEGA-crossover IMO, and really pushed SEGA's cool image throughout with their other similarly vibed series that were in Sega All Stars Racing/Transformed.

I've been fan of some these series due being able to deliver as much fun fanservice-filled gaming as Smash Bros did, while having their own flavour and presentation that allows these series to stand on their own - such as Marvel VS Capcom, Sega All Stars Racing, or Parodius. With them being as big before as they used to, I feel the glorious history of these companies are going to not be remembered or appreciated anymore, with only handful of their series getting that only in Smash-series.

It's saddening that we've reached the peak this fast like that - how Nintendo's been only company able to allow us even enjoy anything like this for next few years until a new Smash comes in. The gaming industry in means of hype regarding gatherings like these, will feel pretty scarce this way - hence the pressure's gonna be way too huge for next game in the franchise to deliver that like Ultimate is doing so far, IMO.

Makes me wish we lived in a slightly better timeline where companies were good again and didn't have to go push themselves this much to be relevant suddenly in the gaming scene (Konami arguably) - because on their current state, making something to similar levels of scope, dedication and quality control as Smash is generally ludicrous with how hard it can be today. So unfortunately, we could see them keep piling on their own IPs on Smash in expense of Nintendo's currently wide selection of wanted 1st/2nd Party-characters.


 
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Rie Sonomura

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#59
I NEED THEM YESTERDAY:
  • Elma - since it’s implied Rex was too soon for the roster, and Fiora is in Shulk’s Final Smash (but I still say they can pull a Chrom with her), I’m just legit surprised Elma hasn’t made it in yet. Her timing was perfect, X got a lot of accolades, and I just really love X ok
  • Bandana Dee - to complete the Return to Dreamland crew
  • Dixie Kong - she is certainly iconic
Would be awesome
  • Black Shadow - 20 years and no new F-Zero rep? If we can’t get a new game, let’s have the next best thing
  • Rhythm Heaven character - we have everyone from the Smash 4 Gematsu leak now, except a RH character
  • Fiora - see my comments on Elma about pulling a Chrom with Fiora. Hey, it’s possible
  • Impa - if not a Sheik echo, maybe a semi-clone. And use her Skyward Sword appearance
  • Medusa - just put some of Palutena’s customs from 4 that didn’t return on Medusa, bam your work is cut out for you
  • Celica - i dont have much to say here really
Maybe next game...
  • Rex OR Lora - pretty self explanatory
  • ARMS rep - Spring Man’s an AT, Ribbon Girl’s a costume, everyone else is a spirit (except Dr. Coyle but would they really include the villain before the hero?)
  • Astral Chain character - maybe wait to see how well it does first
  • Octoling - would have been a perfect Inkling echo
  • Dragalia Lost character
 
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#60
I'm being honest, this recent focus on third party is making me lose interest in Smash as a whole.
I play Smash for the gameplay, offcourse, but I also play Smash for all the characters and the stages, the references, the crossovers, the cameos.
When most of that content (or at least the new content) comes from series I care nothing about, a big part of the selling point for me has gone.
The gameplay is good, but it's not much different compared to the previous entry. I mean, gameplay alone isn't enough to justify a new game and a new console if nothing else interests me... especially when I still have Melee and Smash 4 and I can still play them whenever I want.

I was happy when Sakurai twitted about the DLC characters being selected by Nintendo, because I thought they were going to be from Nintendo... but each time a new character is announced and it's from a new third party franchise, I, as a Nintendo fan, get more and more disappointed each time.
Piranha Plant is awesome, why can't we get more of that type of stuff? Unexpected classic Nintendo characters with a unique moveset?
I hope the last two characters in the fighter pass are from Nintendo franchises, possibly something that interests me too, because so far the interest on my side has been pretty low for all the newcomers in this game, if we exclude Piranha Plant (because of the unique moveset) and the Inkling (because of the ink gimmick).
 

Among Waddle Dees

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#62
It honestly is quite ridicilous that at this point, people are considering Nintendo to have less of a chance than any given third party character in what is for the most part a Nintendo crossover game. And I really don't mean that in a good way.
Honestly, this is the underlying problem with this whole ordeal. Without assurance that any of this is first-party, everyone is jumping to pick the wildest and most illogical picks, and shutting anything closer to home down. I honestly believe Reggie should have kept his mouth shut at the Game Awards, since whether or not he misquoted, he implied that we aren't getting any logical picks, i.e. the characters that should be holding the roster together.

But my BIGGEST gripe with the idea of an all third-party DLC is that it may mean the Smash team is ASSUMING we don't want first-party newcomers based off past DLC reactions. But that's... absurd! Smash 4 ONLY gave us Corrin, which was a character from an already bloated series that was picked for marketing reasons only, so that's not a good example of a first-party DLC. Ultimate has so far only given us Piranha Plant, a character NOBODY asked for under true assumptions, from a series that didn't need more AND had better choices, so that's also a bad example. I could technically get why these characters would be considered poor steps of first-party support, but that cannot be an excusable reason for excluding more first-parties since that wasn't our fault at all. Why should it be our fault? We had a ballot.
 
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ColtonS25

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#63
I can see why people get upset about the lack of first party characters in this Fighters Pass, but to me it’s alright so far. DQ and Banjo-Kazooie are both iconic franchises with Nintendo roots, so there’s potential there even if you don’t buy other consoles. Joker is from a game that I really wanted to play and was waiting for a Switch version. See how that turned out. Otherwise the only other 3rd party characters that I would need are Geno and Phoenix Wright. Others that I’d like to be playable are Shantae, Shovel Knight, Amaterasu, Rayman, Zero (Mega Man) and Lara Croft. Mind you I’ve never played Tomb Raider, but it’s iconic.

I personally have only really started branching out to 3rd party games within the last 5 or so years, but there are plenty of great characters out there. There are also still characters from Nintendo that should be in. Some of my choices include:

Elma - My most wanted, she could represent the X side of the Xenoblade franchise and would be such a cool character!

Dixie Kong - She’s high up there as well. My personal favorite Kong and probably the most glaring omission from Smash right now.

Isaac - I have no personal attachment, but I want to play Golden Sun for sure! Might as well please fans and give them what they want!

Bandana Waddle Dee - Such a needed addition. Kirby should get that 4th character the franchise deserves.

Others that I support (not as heavily) include Ashley, Skull Kid, Ninten, Porky, Waluigi, Octoling, Fiora, Melia, Morag and Brighid, Lora and Jin, Lyn, Toad/Captain Toad, Urbosa, an ARMS character (I like Twintelle best, but probably not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯), Impa, Mach Rider, and a Rhythm Heaven character (no clue, but they deserve a spot!).
 
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osby

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#64
Honestly, this is the underlying problem with this whole ordeal. Without assurance that any of this is first-party, everyone is jumping to pick the wildest and most illogical picks, and shutting anything closer to home down. I honestly believe Reggie should have kept his mouth shut at the Game Awards, since whether or not he misquoted, he implied that we aren't getting any logical picks, i.e. the characters that should be holding the roster together.
I'd say Banjo-Kazooie and Hero are pretty logical picks, respectively being a Smash speculation fan favorite and protagonists of the one of the most influential and popular games of al times. Just because a character isn't owned by Nintendo doesn't mean they are an illogical pick.

Also, subjective but I'm glad the speculation isn't ruled by arbitrary quotas and we can just root for our favorite franchises for once.

But my BIGGEST gripe with the idea of an all third-party DLC is that it may mean the Smash team is ASSUMING we don't want first-party newcomers based off past DLC reactions. But that's... absurd! Smash 4 ONLY gave us Corrin, which was a character from an already bloated series that was picked for marketing reasons only, so that's not a good example of a first-party DLC. Ultimate has so far only given us Piranha Plant, a character NOBODY asked for under true assumptions, from a series that didn't need more AND had better choices, so that's also a bad example. I could technically get why these characters would be considered poor steps of first-party support, but that cannot be an excusable reason for excluding more first-parties since that wasn't our fault at all. Why should it be our fault? We had a ballot.
I think you are making assumptions about what development team thinks. We know DLC was likely decided before :ultpiranha:'s inclusion and it's absurd to blame Corrin for the lack of first party characters.

It's more likely third parties are picked for DLC because it's easier to negotiate them after the base game is released, not because developers are punishing the fans for two characters' controversial reception.

Why are you citing the ballot, by the way? It's not like we didn't get any characters that scored highly in fan pools.
 

StormC

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#65
I think with DLC it's just a matter of catching headlines with crazy characters, which are usually third parties and not B/C-listers from Nintendo. (I say this as a fan of many of these B/C-listers.) They want the character additions to stand out so more people think about buying them, or indeed, buy the Fighters Pass.

Persona 5 was a highly critically acclaimed game and true to form, no one "saw it coming" that the protagonist of a PS4 RPG would be in Smash.
Dragon Quest's legacy speaks for itself, and both Square/Nintendo get some cross promotion for the highly anticipated DQ11S.
Banjo-Kazooie lets Nintendo and Microsoft soak up tons of good PR and very obviously caught a lot of attention by "bringing them home."

As much as I'd love characters like Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee, I understand why these characters above were picked instead for DLC. I'm sure once Smash 6 starts up, it'll be the standard Nintendo base roster with 1-2 third party franchises being added. I suppose it's disappointing if you didn't expect this outcome, but I felt like it was pretty likely, and once Joker landed on the VGA stage, that set the tone.

While a lot of other fighting games have more "standard" fighter choices as DLC, I would wager Nintendo is only planning for one Pass and they want to go all out on a crazy, hype-seeking set of characters. So while FighterZ might have a couple of seasons, the additions are for the most part, just kind of run-of-the-mill Dragon Ball characters with a few surprises thrown in. Nintendo is probably thinking that if they are only going to do one Pass, they're going to stuff it with these sorts of characters. But that's just my guess.

Maybe we'll get more characters past the Pass, but I'm personally not holding my breath.
 
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ROBnWatch

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#66
Something maybe to spark some discussion in here. Let’s assume the last 2 slots are both first party, and assume that Spirits deconfirm characters. What 2 characters would you want the most, and which two do you think are most likely?
 
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#67
Something maybe to spark some discussion in here. Let’s assume the last 2 slots are both first party, and assume that Spirits deconfirm characters. What 2 characters would you want the most, and which two do you think are most likely?
There's not that many left at that point...Porky is about the only significant one who seems suspicious in his absense having been a boss in Brawl which was a large role.

Soooo...Porky would be the only one I'd say for sure in that specific scenario.

As for character 2...

I don't put much stock in Sylux who everyone else jumps on since they base his importance on a future game we haven't seen yet and Poochy, who also gets a few mentions is represented in Yarn form and honestly that's the most significant Poochy's ever been.

If we assume Poochy does still have a chance because of minor form differences I guess I'll throw Minish Vaati and Twili Midna into the mix too.

Someone like Dr. Coyle from ARMS could show up, but with Springman stuck in an assist and the next obvious choice of Ribbon Girl stuck as a Mii outfit and Spirit, it'd be weird to have her first. Even some of the most popular ARMS characters like Twintelle and MinMin are out due to their spirits...

...I guess the protagonists from the upcoming Astral Chain would work providing the game doesn't flop.
 
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#68
Something maybe to spark some discussion in here. Let’s assume the last 2 slots are both first party, and assume that Spirits deconfirm characters. What 2 characters would you want the most, and which two do you think are most likely?
The two characters I want the most are obviously Adeleine & Ribbon, and... well every other first party character I want has been represented as a spirit or in some other form already, so just that.

The most likely, I've been unable to predict anything of DLC so far, so I can't predict, I still didn't get the pattern or logic behind the character selections lately, aside of "surprise".
Porky's absence though is a little odd, considering the attention Sakurai gave to him in the past and how the Mother series usually gets a lot of focus in Smash (not saying that he's the most likely, he could even come back as a boss in an update, and that would deconfirm him, so nothing is safe to bet).
 
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#69
Something maybe to spark some discussion in here. Let’s assume the last 2 slots are both first party, and assume that Spirits deconfirm characters. What 2 characters would you want the most, and which two do you think are most likely?
Cross, the Avatar from Xenoblade Chronicles X, and Vaati, from the The Minish Cap. It's admittedly a bit unclear just how first-party the latter is, but his humanoid form is entirely unrepresented.
 

Minik

Smash Apprentice
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#73
Porky and Sylux are only seen as likely because they're missing. Sylux hasn't had his moment to truly shine yet (and won't for a while now) and Porky is just because he had attention in the last games, though it must be pointed out those 2 times he was a boss he was massive. They do spirit battles if they're interesting and compared to other metroid prime hunters, Sylux doesn't provide much (dark samus is already a blue floating alien) and Porky instead is the absoloutely safe capsule, which is the perfect spirit for maximum defense. They already did masked man and ultimate chimera and a bunch of other mother 3 spirits, I imagine they just felt it had enough by that point to not have Porky take up 3 spirits. If they were in as spirits there'd be literally no question to it which isn't the trait of a character who seems "Likely"
 
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#74
If you play Mother 3, you realize why Porky isn't a spirit by himself, but is still represented in spirit form a different way.

In general, I'm more open to the idea of a Ninten Echo Fighter for Ness than Porky as a full fledged new character. The EarthBound series is finished, we should really let the other series have a chance to shine at this point.
 

Guynamednelson

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#75
I think people are focusing too much on Sylux and Porky because the Smash fandom will never stop thinking Smash needs more villains. In terms of spiritless characters there's also Sami from Advance Wars, a series that was not compensated for its lack of a playable character in the same way as ARMS and Golden Sun, and doesn't even have its AT anymore.
 
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Minik

Smash Apprentice
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#76
Rhythm Heaven gets slept on a lot in general, even barring gematsu its the only non-fighter based franchise with a Smash Run enemy, it had logo data within FIGHTERS and for some reason, it has one of the highest amount of spirits of a non-playable series yet no assist trophy, its NEVER had an assist trophy for some reason. I wouldn't complain much about RH if it clearly didn't get close to being playable and has literally never been discussed by Sakurai.
 
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#77
Like I said in the newcomer discussion thread, I think it's just that Sakurai wants to incorporate rhythm into a Rhythm Heaven character's moveset / playstyle, but has no idea how to do that in an elegant manner.

I suspect it's an all or nothing situation for him: if he can't capture the essence of the Rhythm Heaven series in their moveset, then he's not gonna do it. He would most likely want to get them right above all else but has creator's block on how to go about that.
 

ROBnWatch

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#78
I think people are focusing too much on Sylux and Porky because the Smash fandom will never stop thinking Smash needs more villains. In terms of spiritless characters there's also Sami from Advance Wars, a series that was not compensated for its lack of a playable character in the same way as ARMS and Golden Sun, and doesn't even have its AT anymore.
I don’t think it’s so much that they’re villains so much as that they’re important characters in their respective franchises that are absent, whereas they used to be represented as trophies or the like.
 

Minik

Smash Apprentice
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#80
Like I said in the newcomer discussion thread, I think it's just that Sakurai wants to incorporate rhythm into a Rhythm Heaven character's moveset / playstyle, but has no idea how to do that in an elegant manner.

I suspect it's an all or nothing situation for him: if he can't capture the essence of the Rhythm Heaven series in their moveset, then he's not gonna do it. He would most likely want to get them right above all else but has creator's block on how to go about that.
Which I would accept, but theres also the thing of no assist trophy, which could straight up change the music to work if needed. Even him just saying "Yeah RH was scrapped at one point" would at least let me rest easy instead of weirdly never bringing it up. Will say that Sneaky Spirit in smash at least is at least based on moving to a rhythm.
 
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