[General] First/Second Party DLC Support Thread

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#1
Well then. . . I know there's already a general support thread for some series and Square Enix, but I feel like this kind of thread might be pushing it? At any rate, I want to give this thread a shot.

As the title says, this is a general thread for any Nintendo characters - be they first or second party - as DLC. Doesn't matter if they're from Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, F-Zero, Earthbound, Xenoblade, series that already have a playable fighter, or series that just didn't make it yet: This thread is for them all.

My main hope for this thread is that it can become a kind of social place for all those that don't want the Fighter's Pass to be entirely third party characters, or have hope for DLC fighters beyond that. If this goes as I envision it, I might edit this opening post with some additional stuff, but that's the general gist of my idea for this.
 
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#3
To be honest, I kinda don't want the Fighter's Pass to be entirely third party characters either, but if they're going to make any serious sales off of it, they're probably going to include big hitters. All of them have been from well-known series have been so far. That's what I think anyway.

I'm not entirely sure I understand the whole "second party" thing yet, but does Maxwell from Scribblenauts count? Or is he first party? I'd kind of like to see him in. He'd be cool as an Assist Trophy, but it's too late for that, methinks.
 
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#4
I'm not entirely sure I understand the whole "second party" thing yet, but does Maxwell from Scribblenauts count? Or is he first party? I'd kind of like to see him in. He'd be cool as an Assist Trophy, but it's too late for that, methinks.
I admittedly only threw the term "second-party" in there because it made sense to me. I don't really know if it's a thing, either, or what it would entail. But I think this would entail any characters owned by companies that are in turn owned by Nintendo. I.e., something like Intelligent Systems with Fire Emblem, or Monolith Soft with Xenoblade.
 
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#5
I admittedly only threw the term "second-party" in there because it made sense to me. I don't really know if it's a thing, either, or what it would entail. But I think this would entail any characters owned by companies that are in turn owned by Nintendo. I.e., something like Intelligent Systems with Fire Emblem, or Monolith Soft with Xenoblade.
This is correct. If Nintendo owns the dev company, its 2nd party, aka Gamefreak/Pokemon.

Banjo was the last 3rd party character I truly cared about that i believe this fanbase entirely deserves purely from a nostalgia point of view. Well...also Geno, but Im always expecting him least due to his hard to conquer circumstances.

As for possible characters:

- Porky: The last true original main villain not in the game
- Kamek: If we get technical, Yoshi's villain, but I cant see him being DLC.
- Bandana Dee: Probably still Japan's top character, but im not sure if its warranted by DLC
- Isaac: Im imagining a joke trailer where he looks miserable casting the same 2 moves as an AT, and then he gets released from his prison and becomes a full fighter.
- Waluigi: see above
- Dixie: if not a Diddy echo, her own fully flegded character.
- Chorus kids- The idea of using the conductor to control 3 small kids in a olimar, ice climber and G+W fashion really made get really excited when the Ginch leak was a possiblity.


If i had to pick 2, Isaac and Porky. My most requested villain and a rep from one of my favorite franchises. If i got a 3rd, Chorus Kids.


Heres to hoping a fighters pass 2 happens but its mainly 1st/2nd party since payoff years after a game releases on DLC may not be so lucrative with 3rd party anymore.
 
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#6
My personal picks:
- Dixie Kong - by far my number 1 pick, would complete DK and Rare representation
- Isaac - Golden Sun is one of the most deserving 1st party series thats left that doesn't have representation
- Impa - Would be a great new Zelda rep, one of the most prominent and story important recurring characters, outside the Triforce trio, in the series.
- Octoling - Cool and easy echo, would be a great way to represent Splatoon 2's Octo Expansion
- Spring Man/Ribbon Girl - ARMS is one of the newest and breakout series for Switch and would be a good modern rep. I'd have these two be echoes of each other like Marth/Roy in Melee
- Elma - would best represent Xenoblade Chronicles X
- Rex & Pyra/Mythra - would be a great representative for Xenoblade Chronicles 2
- Rhythm Heaven Rep - Chorus Kids were considered for Smash 4, I think this series could really use a rep
- Advance Wars Rep - With how much love Fire Emblem has gotten, I think this series could use Andy and Sami at the very least.
- Toon Zelda/Tetra - Another cut character that would make an easy echo and would be great representation for Wind Waker.
 

andree123

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#7
Sylux and Porky are the most likely DLC fighters to be in the fighters pass, however it feels like Sylux has a higher chance to be in the fighters pass than Porky because Metroid is a alive game that is supposed to be getting a game and as a reminder that Sylux still will be in Metroid Prime 4.
 
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#8
The big "why the hell haven't we got these already" ones;
Captain Toad or Toad. There's dozens of them, but he's Player 3/4 of the Mario canon, has his own games and is easily the most prominent character from Nintendo that isn't playable yet. Should have been in yet, has been passed over for more minor characters for years. Either Toad should come with a Toadette alt, and that girl's also got a more impressive resume than most the Nintendo picks in recent years with her roles
Dixie Kong. Has her own game in DKC3, was the most useful Kong in Tropical Freeze.
Bandana Waddle Dee. Doesn't have his own game but is either player 4 or 2 depending on the Kirby game. Huge popularity in Japan and the west.
Waluigi.
Finish off the core Mario cast with him and the Toads and frankly perfect Mario roster.

The slightly more vague ones:
Zelda character: Okay it's been far too long, but we should have had about three Zelda characters by this point that aren't Link. Impa would be my number one choice, but Tingle, Skull Kid, Vaati and one shots like Midna and Ghirahim have good reasons for inclusion too. Honestly a bit of a crime we don't have anything bar Link and Zelda reincarnations and Ganondorf.
Xenoblade character: Cannot decide between Rex/Pyra and Elma honestly. I don't think every Xeno needs a character in Smash as the series isn't THAT big, but probably we should have gotten one or the other.
ARMS character: Springman, Ribbon Girl or if you're feeling bolder; Twintelle or Min Min whom I'm led to believe are the most popular characters. ARMS didn't blow away like Splatoon did, but it was far from a flop and was well recieved. Nintendo should be encouraged to try their new IPs.

Outside them Paper Mario is acceptable, although more Paper Mario Stages would be a bigger draw for me than a character.

Chibi-Robo, Dillon and Isaac are fun smaller franchise ideas, but Hero sort of cribs Isaac's magic swordsman thing more than even Robin did.

Not that it matters since Isaac alongside Waluigi, Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid, Springman and Dillon are stuck in AT hell, alongside Toad being stuck in moveset hell. But I'd be far more pumped for the top section's characters than anything we've had in the Fighters Pass thus far. Including Banjo.
 
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#10
Anyone expecting a fighters pass season 2 with fighters who are also non-playable spirits and/or assists?
Honestly no, especially on the Assists. We could theoretically get characters that are spirits though if there's a pack 2. I wouldn't bet on the likes of Waluigi though due to the work that went on with the Assists.
 
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#11
due to the work that went on with the Assists
People exaggerate how much work has been put into ATs this time. All the ones that were in Smash 4 use recycled assets from that game, and the highest amount of moves they have is only 1/4 of a complete moveset. Part of the reason why Isaac fans have faith in him being DLC is because his AT looks like it has some corners cut.
Sylux and Porky are the most likely DLC fighters to be in the fighters pass,
How likely these two are is also exaggerated IMO. The structure of FP characters doesn't work with a character who already has an ideal home stage, and the current progress of MP4's development makes me think Sylux has to wait for 6.
 
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#12
Probably venting and maybe might not belong on this thread that tries to support these type of characters, but I wanted to voice it for some enlightenment and discussion.

Since Banjo's and Hero's inclusions, I've had come to rather bittersweet conclusion about how Smash Bros has probably passed a point of being a mere Nintendo-crossover for good, meaning that where 1st Party, or 2nd Party-inclusions just don't feel anymore effective to be prioritized over compared nexy 3rd Party Fighters we've received up to this point, unless under very specific exceptions (currently seen safely in Pokemon, or Fire Emblem-series).

This massive shift in standards from both the fanbase and Sakurai towards favoring 3rd Parties, in order to make this the biggest videogame crossover/hall of fame as can be, doesn't just bode well on them in my eyes. Though I guess I might be wanting to move on permanently from all this to celebrate Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros as best endgame to this point due the miraculous turnout of events this E3, after supporting them heavily back in last Autumn.

It's been just highly tiring to find anymore motivation to keep supporting on the 1st Party characters I had been highly passionate to see since young to see in the series, such as Toad, and to lesser extent, Dixie Kong. It's probably worse when they're relatively more mainstream compared to various 2nd Party characters I supported around Brawl, and Sm4sh-days - yet I seem to have kept on getting most of my sticks short all the way to Ultimate's release, and last games prior.

Probably just absolutely stinking luck on my end, to very this day - but now by having reached critically highest point in the entire series with this unthinkable roster - I kinda feel this is it. There's really no point for me to keep on going towards my 30s, having still the same possibility having a carrot dangled above my head - because the stakes are long gone.




I kinda do hope we might see some turnout towards 1st Parties and beyond - but I highly doubt it with just two slots on Fighters' Pass, and me personally wanting to headpalm at Sakurai for not having taken a break between Sm4sh's finished development, and doing something new for once during that time - instead of being dragged on to do sequels to Smash-games back-to-back now. :025:
 

Kotor

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#14
How likely these two are is also exaggerated IMO. The structure of FP characters doesn't work with a character who already has an ideal home stage, and the current progress of MP4's development makes me think Sylux has to wait for 6.
This. Sylux's entire support is built on an assumption he's gonna be important one day. To this day, he remains as a random bounty hunter that Samus crossed paths with once.
 
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#15
People exaggerate how much work has been put into ATs this time. All the ones that were in Smash 4 use recycled assets from that game, and the highest amount of moves they have is only 1/4 of a complete moveset. Part of the reason why Isaac fans have faith in him being DLC is because his AT looks like it has some corners cut.
What corners cut are we talking about in regards to Isaac?
 
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#16
What corners cut are we talking about in regards to Isaac?
  • Model looks bad compared to other ATs.
  • The Psynergy hands use Master/Crazy Hand's model, while in Brawl they were original.
  • His new moves are ones that didn't require them to model any rocks or plants.
 
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#17
  • Model looks bad compared to other ATs.
  • The Psynergy hands use Master/Crazy Hand's model, while in Brawl they were original.
  • His new moves are ones that didn't require them to model any rocks or plants.
Well, assets have famously been reused in the past for both fighters and assists. Gotta cut corners where you can. It's part of the reason we got Jigglypuff to begin with.

What makes Isaac's model worse looking than the other NPC models though?
 
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#18
People exaggerate how much work has been put into ATs this time. All the ones that were in Smash 4 use recycled assets from that game, and the highest amount of moves they have is only 1/4 of a complete moveset. Part of the reason why Isaac fans have faith in him being DLC is because his AT looks like it has some corners cut.
No, its actually completely unrealistic Assist Trophies will be promoted to playable characters. The chosen assists, are in the game at all. If otherwise, Skull Kid has great odds.
 
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#19
Sylux and Porky are based on the combined assumption that
1. Spirits are deconfirmed
2. There will be more DLC with First Parties

Both of these points have to be true in order for Sylux and Porky to even have a remote chance. But that's the thing.
They can't both be true. It's either one or the other.
If Spirits are deconfirmed, there will be no more DLC with First Parties.
If there is DLC with First Parties, then spirits will have to be used.

Neither Sylux or Porky are anywhere remotely as hypeworthy as any of the highly requested 1st parties, let alone the 3rd parties we just got. Earthbound is finished and Prime 4 has been delayed. (If ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 couldn't make it in on bad timing I highly doubt this means anything good for Sylux). Neither Mother nor Metroid is in need of another rep compared to DK, Zelda, Kirby, or Xenoblade anyway, let alone Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, and Advance Wars that couldn't even get one rep.
 
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#20
Probably venting and maybe might not belong on this thread that tries to support these type of characters, but I wanted to voice it for some enlightenment and discussion.

Since Banjo's and Hero's inclusions, I've had come to rather bittersweet conclusion about how Smash Bros has probably passed a point of being a mere Nintendo-crossover for good, meaning that where 1st Party, or 2nd Party-inclusions just don't feel anymore effective to be prioritized over compared nexy 3rd Party Fighters we've received up to this point, unless under very specific exceptions (currently seen safely in Pokemon, or Fire Emblem-series).

This massive shift in standards from both the fanbase and Sakurai towards favoring 3rd Parties, in order to make this the biggest videogame crossover/hall of fame as can be, doesn't just bode well on them in my eyes. Though I guess I might be wanting to move on permanently from all this to celebrate Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros as best endgame to this point due the miraculous turnout of events this E3, after supporting them heavily back in last Autumn.

It's been just highly tiring to find anymore motivation to keep supporting on the 1st Party characters I had been highly passionate to see since young to see in the series, such as Toad, and to lesser extent, Dixie Kong. It's probably worse when they're relatively more mainstream compared to various 2nd Party characters I supported around Brawl, and Sm4sh-days - yet I seem to have kept on getting most of my sticks short all the way to Ultimate's release, and last games prior.

Probably just absolutely stinking luck on my end, to very this day - but now by having reached critically highest point in the entire series with this unthinkable roster - I kinda feel this is it. There's really no point for me to keep on going towards my 30s, having still the same possibility having a carrot dangled above my head - because the stakes are long gone.




I kinda do hope we might see some turnout towards 1st Parties and beyond - but I highly doubt it with just two slots on Fighters' Pass, and me personally wanting to headpalm at Sakurai for not having taken a break between Sm4sh's finished development, and doing something new for once during that time - instead of being dragged on to do sequels to Smash-games back-to-back now. :025:
The irony about this is Banjo, the first character to be added that comes from a competing Console Rival, is basically a Nintendo character in every other area except legal one (albeit Banjo actually was owned by Nintendo, they just gave the rights to Rare once they left). It's a Bookend in a way if you think about.

It's sad. I remember after Joker's reveal i saw an article about Sakurai saying that Smash is no longer about Nintendo characters, and while everybody seemed happy, i was sad to see the original reason this series existed for beign slowly erased each installment passed by. and this is coming from whose most wanted character was Simon Belmont.

At this point, the only way non-FE/Pokémon Nintendo characters are getting as DLC is via the PP treatment (individual DLC, gameplay only trailers, etc)
 
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#21
At this point, the only way non-FE/Pokémon Nintendo characters are getting as DLC is via the PP treatment (individual DLC, gameplay only trailers, etc)
Actually, I believe they would only get in via the PP treatment. Corrin didn't have a stage, and they thought Incineroar could get away with using the Punch-Out stage instead of an Alola one.

What makes Isaac's model worse looking than the other NPC models though?
His hair seems to lack texture.

No, its actually completely unrealistic Assist Trophies will be promoted to playable characters. The chosen assists, are in the game at all. If otherwise, Skull Kid has great odds.
If this work on ATs was so precious that promoting one would be flushing tons of work down the toilet they wouldn't even let you turn them off.
 

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#22
It's sad. I remember after Joker's reveal i saw an article about Sakurai saying that Smash is no longer about Nintendo characters, and while everybody seemed happy, i was sad to see the original reason this series existed for beign slowly erased each installment passed by. and this is coming from whose most wanted character was Simon Belmont.
Quite relieved to see I'm not alone feeling all of this. The currently heavy favoring of 3rd Parties and ambitions to make Smash Bros the biggest crossover videogame ever, has been accelerating the series' growth way too fast for it's own good, even past Ultimate featuring all characters and decent amount of fan favorites mitigated this somewhat. As of now this has only set massively insurmountable standards to not only for the Smash-series itself, but the entire gaming at large if the fanbases' current collective opinions is to go by.

It has genuinely made me feel we'll never go back to series' roots in fear of a massive backlash and loss of interest from fans due getting easily compared to Smash's peak that it is currently going. I just wish they gave little more time to allow few more profilic fan requests get in times ago to allow it happen more naturally - and perhaps added currently featured ones already back in Brawl or 4, like then-absent K.Rool and ludicriously ridiculed Ridley.

Perhaps that'd have allowed the series to not necessarily go all way driving it's main hype on 3rd parties at this point, until the time we received Banjo-Kazooie, who've apparently shown to eclipse the popularities of both Joker and Heroes from DQ.
 
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#23
Actually, I believe they would only get in via the PP treatment. Corrin didn't have a stage, and they thought Incineroar could get away with using the Punch-Out stage instead of an Alola one.
I'm honestly firmly convinced that one of the big reasons why we didn't get Inkling or, say, Elma as the promotional DLC pick back in Smash 4 is because they wouldn't really be represented by any existing stage. With how most of the FE stages in Smash are representative of the series as a whole rather than any individual games, Corrin was already well-represented enough with what was already there.
With the non third-party characters in Ultimate, I think it was also pretty much the same. Splatoon is the big new IP, so it's an exception and gets a stage. But with Ridley, K.Rool, Isabelle, Incineroar, Piranha Plant and the echo fighters, they probably thought that they're already well represented by the stages that are there.

Probably venting and maybe might not belong on this thread that tries to support these type of characters, but I wanted to voice it for some enlightenment and discussion.

Since Banjo's and Hero's inclusions, I've had come to rather bittersweet conclusion about how Smash Bros has probably passed a point of being a mere Nintendo-crossover for good, meaning that where 1st Party, or 2nd Party-inclusions just don't feel anymore effective to be prioritized over compared nexy 3rd Party Fighters we've received up to this point, unless under very specific exceptions (currently seen safely in Pokemon, or Fire Emblem-series).

This massive shift in standards from both the fanbase and Sakurai towards favoring 3rd Parties, in order to make this the biggest videogame crossover/hall of fame as can be, doesn't just bode well on them in my eyes. Though I guess I might be wanting to move on permanently from all this to celebrate Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros as best endgame to this point due the miraculous turnout of events this E3, after supporting them heavily back in last Autumn.

It's been just highly tiring to find anymore motivation to keep supporting on the 1st Party characters I had been highly passionate to see since young to see in the series, such as Toad, and to lesser extent, Dixie Kong. It's probably worse when they're relatively more mainstream compared to various 2nd Party characters I supported around Brawl, and Sm4sh-days - yet I seem to have kept on getting most of my sticks short all the way to Ultimate's release, and last games prior.

Probably just absolutely stinking luck on my end, to very this day - but now by having reached critically highest point in the entire series with this unthinkable roster - I kinda feel this is it. There's really no point for me to keep on going towards my 30s, having still the same possibility having a carrot dangled above my head - because the stakes are long gone.




I kinda do hope we might see some turnout towards 1st Parties and beyond - but I highly doubt it with just two slots on Fighters' Pass, and me personally wanting to headpalm at Sakurai for not having taken a break between Sm4sh's finished development, and doing something new for once during that time - instead of being dragged on to do sequels to Smash-games back-to-back now. :025:
This actually summarizes the reason I made this thread to begin with rather nicely. I'm just not someone that really ventures far outside of Nintendo franchises with gaming, so this seeming focus on third-parties from both Sakurai and his team as well as the fanbase has just left me largely disillusioned. So far there's nothing that makes me want to buy the Fighter's Pass, and I'm starting to doubt there ever will be. My own most wanted character, Elma, does have a decent amount of things going for her, but by now I'm really starting to doubt her chances.
 

N3ON

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#24
I'm perfectly happy with the third-parties we're getting (and will likely continue to get) in the pass, but if they make a second, it'd be nice (and much cheaper on Nintendo's end) to go with first-party characters. Unfortunately, some of the best choices are already ATs, so maybe we could see some upgrading, if we're lucky. Of course, should that happen, I'd still hope for Bomberman, but he'd be the exception.

However, it seems likelier to me that should we get future Nintendo characters as DLC, they'd opt for choices with promotional value, which is a bit unfortunate. I just hope they don't hold back good, popular choices for a future iteration, like they almost assuredly did with Inklings. But, unlike last time, as they probably won't start development of the next Smash immediately after this one, maybe we'll be spared from that.

No, its actually completely unrealistic Assist Trophies will be promoted to playable characters. The chosen assists, are in the game at all. If otherwise, Skull Kid has great odds.
People seem to overlook that Skull Kid was very popular for all of about two months. There are a handful of ATs that have much more enduring levels of high demand.
 
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#25
Quite relieved to see I'm not alone feeling all of this. The currently heavy favoring of 3rd Parties and ambitions to make Smash Bros the biggest crossover videogame ever, has been accelerating the series' growth way too fast for it's own good, even past Ultimate featuring all characters and decent amount of fan favorites mitigated this somewhat. As of now this has only set massively insurmountable standards to not only for the Smash-series itself, but the entire gaming at large if the fanbases' current collective opinions is to go by.

It has genuinely made me feel we'll never go back to series' roots in fear of a massive backlash and loss of interest from fans due getting easily compared to Smash's peak that it is currently going. I just wish they gave little more time to allow few more profilic fan requests get in times ago to allow it happen more naturally - and perhaps added currently featured ones already back in Brawl or 4, like then-absent K.Rool and ludicrously ridiculed Ridley.

Perhaps that'd have allowed the series to not necessarily go all way driving it's main hype on 3rd parties at this point, until the time we received Banjo-Kazooie, who've apparently shown to eclipse the popularities of both Joker and Heroes from DQ.
You guys aren't the only ones. To see Smash slowly but surely drift away from its original intention... I don't know, it creates a slightly disappointed feeling in my heart. For the record, I don't really mind the additions of Sonic, Mega Man, PAC-MAN, and especially not Banjo-Kazooie (who were Nintendo characters to begin with), but to see Smash turning into this... I feel like Nintendo could have spaced out their 3rd party additions at the very least. It's also why I don't see Smash getting a 'pseudo-reboot' game anytime soon. If i'm being honest? I think the series needs one by now.
 
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#26
People seem to overlook that Skull Kid was very popular for all of about two months. There are a handful of ATs that have much more enduring levels of high demand.
In any case, Skull Kid HAS appeal. He's still been requested for a long time. He's already passed the barrier being made an assist.
 
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#27
I do think it's a bit sad that everyone's so quick to write off first party characters as 'scraping the bottom of the barrel'.

Personally I'd think Ice Climbers would have been scraping the bottom of the barrel due to obscurity, being from a one off, not particular beloved retro game, but low and behold; Sakurai made a working and fun moveset out of them. In Sm4sh they were cut and there was outrage about it.

Hell; Ice Climber isn't even a game where you play two characters at once to reach the top of a mountain; you only control a solo Climber with Nana being Player 2. The entire gimmick of their moveset could just as easily been given to any game that had a second player character!

Comparitively I fail to see how relatively big Nintendo stars like Toad, Waluigi, Dixie Kong, Bandana Waddle Dee, Rex, Elma, Tom Nook, etc, etc can be counted as scraping the bottom of the barrel when such creativity could be bound as easily to any single one of them.
 
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