Ganon's Fair is God Tier

[yahyakun]

???

Jiggs does fine vs Ganon, nothing changed for him that made the MU significantly better. Down B is the same, Fair and Dair are the same, Jab is the same, etc.

I hate to say this but Ganon's Fair >> Jab set up works exactly the same in Melee. And the end lag on Up smash and hit boxes are the same as well. If that Ganon playing you was smart he would just chain throw your sheik 0-60 and kill you. You just need to work on baiting Ganon players more. If he misses a Fair you can punish the **** out of him with jigglypuff.

Falco vs Ganon is all about how well you can power shield and punish. If you grab Falco you can pretty easily take a stock on most neutrals.

U guyz say its all the same, i made a vid just for u.
take a look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otytbcfm74c

 

[KOkingpin]

U guyz say its all the same, i made a vid just for u.
take a look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otytbcfm74c

First off, Up-b has the extra ending hit in it from Brawl. Also its not anything we were talking about before. Learn the match up and what Ganondorf actually does.

Second, aerial down b has always spiked (not meteor). The Jigglypuff in the video started to jump and rest thus getting spiked into the ground AND the jiggs player missed the tech to actually be able to punish anything after the spike. I will say that the end lag on aerial down b is much faster.

Third, Jab has always been this fast.Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that Ganon's Melee jab is 3 frames and its the same in PM.

Aerial side B is a grab. That and he waited for your dash attack to be done and he grabbed you out of it. I see nothing wrong with the 4th part of that video.

You don't know how many times I've hit people with Down B in melee and PM when I'm off the ledge. You seem to have your jimmies rustled about things that have been happening for a long time.

Tipman spike hit you when he reverse U-Air'd you and your sword hit his leg at the same time. Thats how hit boxes work. Also Side-b grabs things in the air because of brawl's grab mechanics. Grabs can grab any hurt box available. That is why DK and a few others get infinite grabbed by Dedede in brawl.

Honestly after watching the video a few times it only shows how the marth isn't very good with marth and does not know how to fight ganon.

That last part where Ganon's DAir beat out shine. Fox miss timed the shine and ganon stomped fox out of the animation. it was a clear miss.

None of that seemed busted at all. It was good play by Ganon and poor play from the opponent.

 

[DrinkingFood]

That video was kind of a joke video, KOkingpin
ya'know, hahahaha, laughlaugh, giggle
I'm pretty sure he knows most of those things
Also grabs can no longer grab any hurtbox, since they can't grab forelimbs anymore.

 

[DMG]

That video WAS very funny, the captions killed me

"GOD, hear my words..."

"Mom, where are you"

looooool

 

[yahyakun]

First off, Up-b has the extra ending hit in it from Brawl. Also its not anything we were talking about before. Learn the match up and what Ganondorf actually does.

Second, aerial down b has always spiked (not meteor). The Jigglypuff in the video started to jump and rest thus getting spiked into the ground AND the jiggs player missed the tech to actually be able to punish anything after the spike. I will say that the end lag on aerial down b is much faster.

Third, Jab has always been this fast.Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that Ganon's Melee jab is 3 frames and its the same in PM.

Aerial side B is a grab. That and he waited for your dash attack to be done and he grabbed you out of it. I see nothing wrong with the 4th part of that video.

You don't know how many times I've hit people with Down B in melee and PM when I'm off the ledge. You seem to have your jimmies rustled about things that have been happening for a long time.

Tipman spike hit you when he reverse U-Air'd you and your sword hit his leg at the same time. Thats how hit boxes work. Also Side-b grabs things in the air because of brawl's grab mechanics. Grabs can grab any hurt box available. That is why DK and a few others get infinite grabbed by Dedede in brawl.

Honestly after watching the video a few times it only shows how the marth isn't very good with marth and does not know how to fight ganon.

That last part where Ganon's DAir beat out shine. Fox miss timed the shine and ganon stomped fox out of the animation. it was a clear miss.

None of that seemed busted at all. It was good play by Ganon and poor play from the opponent.

must of the things didnt seem busted but there where 2 things there that rly got me freaked. the one where ganon jabs marth from a very long distance and the one when i was going to rest ganon after he missed aerial down B. just those 2. other things where normal.

 

[Raziek]

That's called a trade, yo.

 

[GaretHax]

<3 PM Ganon so much, he's perfect now imo.

 

[KOkingpin]

must of the things didnt seem busted but there where 2 things there that rly got me freaked. the one where ganon jabs marth from a very long distance and the one when i was going to rest ganon after he missed aerial down B. just those 2. other things where normal.

Marth's F Smash extends his hurtbox quite far out and Ganon's Jab hits on frame 3 which is like 12-15 frames faster than Marth's F Smash.

The missed rest was because the quake from down b hit and Jiggs Crouch Canceled. The Quake hit box is a spike so it sent jiggs into the ground from CCing it.

 

[GeZ]

Tiger Knee.

TFG term lol. I wasn't thinking when i made the post.

To TK a move is to do the move in the air, but as close to the ground as possible, so it's like you're doing an instant aerial move.

See i've seen other people use this term on the Ganon forums, and while I'm happy that I know what they mean by it now, it kinda bugs me that it's being used a little wrongly. Like Tiger Knee'ing something is to the same affect but it's called Tiger Knee'ing because that's how you input the move to do it at the lowest possible jump arc. So it sort of makes sense, but there are better terms for it than that. :V
Just my two cents.

 

[DMG]

So Ganon is still god. Discuss

 

[GeZ]

So Ganon is still god. Discuss

His short hop game is awesome and reading tech's and punishing with the stomp feels oh so right. I've been experimenting a bit with a vortex of sorts and wondering what you guys thought of it. You do aerial flame choke and them jab or downtilt them to reset them. Then short hop flame choke so you're grabbing them right when their feet hit the ground. Only thing is i've seen it work on some people and some chars, but not others. Thoughts and reasons why it may be working selectively?

 

[DMG]

Weight and floatiness comes into play. Too heavy or too light and it won't work. Plus, I thought you could tech aerial Side B slam, which would invalidate a true followup.

 

[GeZ]

Weight and floatiness comes into play. Too heavy or too light and it won't work. Plus, I thought you could tech aerial Side B slam, which would invalidate a true followup.

Can't you tech the grounded one too? I've found teching the aerial one is harder but you have a point. When I found it I more used it once or twice before they could catch on that I was looping it.

 

[CORY]

there's a small bounce after the aerial one, so you get better followups out of it, on most characters.

someone wrote up a list of what you can and can't do against all the characters, but i don't remember where it is. i just remember jiggly is in her own tier of "you can do pretty much whatever you want, guaranteed"

 

[RKM]

http://imgur.com/m4K2BOM
Discuss.

 

[DMG]

Disappointing that Bowser didn't fly away further after that impressive Ganonslide

 

[standardtoaster]

that's a brawl thing

 

[Alter Requiem]

As someone who played brawl Ganon a LOT with a gamecube controller, I'm noticing I cant thunderstorm as well. granted for now, I'm using a garbage classic controller, but it is mostly just reverting back to melee's functionality, right?

 

[GeZ]

As someone who played brawl Ganon a LOT with a gamecube controller, I'm noticing I cant thunderstorm as well. granted for now, I'm using a garbage classic controller, but it is mostly just reverting back to melee's functionality, right?

Jog my memory, Thunderstorming is just SHFFL'ing Dair's, right?

 

[teluoborg]

Short hop autocanceled Dair actually.

 

[Yanoss1313]

yeah, it can still be done, but the timing is MUCH more strict in project M.... i'm pretty sure it's 1 frame. took me a while, but i can get it to happen 95% of the time.

Edit: oh, i suppose you could turn on the input buffer to help with the timing. (it ads 3 frames of grace, though normal brawl had 10 frames i believe)

 

[Alter Requiem]

Input buffer? sounds neat and totally secret.

 

[Werbenjagermanjensen]

http://imgur.com/m4K2BOM
Discuss.

Doubles Matches Beware: The New Hardware Is Here!

/nerfGanon

And yea, SH does autocancel DAir. Any snorthopped aerial can be autocancelled actually, so long as you get the timing down, but I assume that's known for most Ganon players.

 

[GeZ]

Input buffer? sounds neat and totally secret.

It's actually impossible to not use it without turning it off. So like, the opposite of a secret really.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Input buffer? sounds neat and totally secret.

yeah, all you need to do is go into the options and go one page to the right, it should be called input assist or something, make sure it's on, and it'll help you auto cancel your stomps, also helps allot when learning wave dashing and stuff.

but I assume that's known for most Ganon players.

lol, yeah, pretty much

 

[Alter Requiem]

yeah, all you need to do is go into the options and go one page to the right, it should be called input assist or something, make sure it's on, and it'll help you auto cancel your stomps, also helps allot when learning wave dashing and stuff.



lol, yeah, pretty much

I have no idea what options menu with two pages you're referring to. :\

 

[Yanoss1313]

I have no idea what options menu with two pages you're referring to. :\

it's the same menu that you go to to turn items off, set the time limit, random stage switch, etc. it's just at the top of the character select.

 

[Alter Requiem]

it's the same menu that you go to to turn items off, set the time limit, random stage switch, etc. it's just at the top of the character select.

yea found it accidentally earlier thanks for the tip, i think its helping a tiny bit.

 

[Yanoss1313]

yea found it accidentally earlier thanks for the tip, i think its helping a tiny bit.

no worries, glad i could help.