Ganondorf

[Hexaped]

That is how I think Ganondorf would have acted during that time of his life, too, Kamiko. Zant is an example of this. But that over-reliance was a specific part of Ganondorf's life, and that part has past. In his next two canonical appearances, Ganondorf was more reserved. Since SSBB uses TP Ganondorf, TP Ganondorf's personality is what I focus on. A float dash would have been OK in SSBM, but not too OK in SSBB.
Hey, JaidynReiman, don't you wish Toon Link at least used the giant leaf in SSB4?

 

[JaidynReiman]

That is how I think Ganondorf would have acted during that time of his life, too, Kamiko. Zant is an example of this. But that over-reliance was a specific part of Ganondorf's life, and that part has past. In his next two canonical appearances, Ganondorf was more reserved. Since SSBB uses TP Ganondorf, TP Ganondorf's personality is what I focus on. A float dash would have been OK in SSBM, but not too OK in SSBB.
Hey, JaidynReiman, don't you wish Toon Link at least used the giant leaf in SSB4?

Yes, he could've used a Deku Leaf as part of his moveset. However, I think as far as Sakurai was concerned, he didn't want to focus much on Toon Link at all, so he just kept Toon Link the same. It makes sense for Toon Link to use the same moveset, anyway, they don't NEED to give him something else. You're forgetting, though, that Ganondorf shouldn't be a clone at all. Toon Link makes sense, even if it'd be nice for Toon Link to do something a little different.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I'm still doubtful it'll actually happen, but if you turn out to be right, @ JaidynReiman , I'm going to feel the most contentment with a character moveset I've had in quite a while.

Still, I'd like to point out that sticking to tradition for tradition's sake, as @HylianHeroBigBoss puts it, is still in the game. The biggest example is probably Mario's F.L.U.D.D. attack: in Brawl, it was a simple pushing move that took an unnecessarily long time to set up, yet he seems to have kept it exactly the same in Smash 4. The custom moves with different F.L.U.D.D. variants (including a few that can actually damage the opponent) seem to fill in the gap for that, but they didn't need to--Sakurai could have simply made F.L.U.D.D. more useful by default, or replaced it entirely with a more useful attack.

As a result, I'm still skeptical that Ganondorf will change and get a new moveset, that Ganondorf's old moveset will instead go to an F-Zero character, or both. I'm just gonna say, it'll happen when it happens.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'm still doubtful it'll actually happen, but if you turn out to be right, @ JaidynReiman , I'm going to feel the most contentment with a character moveset I've had in quite a while.

Still, I'd like to point out that sticking to tradition for tradition's sake, as @HylianHeroBigBoss puts it, is still in the game. The biggest example is probably Mario's F.L.U.D.D. attack: in Brawl, it was a simple pushing move that took an unnecessarily long time to set up, yet he seems to have kept it exactly the same in Smash 4. The custom moves with different F.L.U.D.D. variants (including a few that can actually damage the opponent) seem to fill in the gap for that, but they didn't need to--Sakurai could have simply made F.L.U.D.D. more useful by default, or replaced it entirely with a more useful attack.

As a result, I'm still skeptical that Ganondorf will change and get a new moveset, that Ganondorf's old moveset will instead go to an F-Zero character, or both. I'm just gonna say, it'll happen when it happens.

Considering Captain Falcon was revealed prior to release, and F-Zero is the only O12 franchise not to have a second rep, I really do think its quite likely Black Shadow will get an updated and improved old Ganondorf moveset.

 

[Kamiko]

That is how I think Ganondorf would have acted during that time of his life, too, Kamiko. Zant is an example of this. But that over-reliance was a specific part of Ganondorf's life, and that part has past. In his next two canonical appearances, Ganondorf was more reserved. Since SSBB uses TP Ganondorf, TP Ganondorf's personality is what I focus on. A float dash would have been OK in SSBM, but not too OK in SSBB.
Hey, JaidynReiman, don't you wish Toon Link at least used the giant leaf in SSB4?

Well, he did a "float dash" type of thing once in WW, but yes, it's not the kind of thing he would normally spam. It could easily fit in as a recovery move though.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Considering Captain Falcon was revealed prior to release, and F-Zero is the only O12 franchise not to have a second rep, I really do think its quite likely Black Shadow will get an updated and improved old Ganondorf moveset.

You may be right on that, but in that case I'd like Black Shadow to be revealed prior to the game's release if Ganondorf isn't. It'd put a lot of relief in me knowing that Ganondorf won't stay a clone since we already know Black Shadow will do that just fine. Perhaps, Black Shadow could be revealed in the same trailer that has Ganondorf in it just to show how the new change works out in the context of both series. That'd be cool, at least.

 

[JaidynReiman]

You may be right on that, but in that case I'd like Black Shadow to be revealed prior to the game's release if Ganondorf isn't. It'd put a lot of relief in me knowing that Ganondorf won't stay a clone since we already know Black Shadow will do that just fine. Perhaps, Black Shadow could be revealed in the same trailer that has Ganondorf in it just to show how the new change works out in the context of both series. That'd be cool, at least.

I'd think Ganondorf would be announced first rather than Black Shadow.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

That'd be the dream.

 

[Hexaped]

Wahah! Ganondorf does floaty things in WW twice! First when he is holding Zelda and rises out of his tower, and second when he floats toward Link to hurt him! Wahah! Anyway, I have something more profound than usual to state. If I could ask Mr. Sakurai for something involving Ganondorf, other than decloning Ganondorf, I want Ganondorf to be complexified. Ganondorf may possibly be my most used character in SSBM and SSBB, but his moveset is relatively simple. The way his Flame Choke and Volcano Kick can interact with items is fun, and are in a way, enough complexity. But Ganondorf feels too simple sometimes. All I can do is punch, kick, or grab, while other characters have complex abilities and various, non-combat uses. Does anyone agree?

 

[Kamiko]

Wahah! Ganondorf does floaty things in WW twice! First when he is holding Zelda and rises out of his tower, and second when he floats toward Link to hurt him! Wahah!

Well, I wouldn't call that a dash, but yeah that happened too.

Anyway, I have something more profound than usual to state. If I could ask Mr. Sakurai for something involving Ganondorf, other than decloning Ganondorf, I want Ganondorf to be complexified. Ganondorf may possibly be my most used character in SSBM and SSBB, but his moveset is relatively simple. The way his Flame Choke and Volcano Kick can interact with items is fun, and are in a way, enough complexity. But Ganondorf feels too simple sometimes. All I can do is punch, kick, or grab, while other characters have complex abilities and various, non-combat uses. Does anyone agree?

If by complexity you mean depth, then yes, I'd like to see that. Simple things can still have a wide variety of uses though. If that's not what you meant, then I don't know. Probably not, but I'd have to see the result.

 

[Hexaped]

I mean depth. Sure, there are multiple functions and details for each attack I do not know, but they remain kicks and punches. What do you mean by "I'd have to see the result?"

 

[crotch protector]

I mean depth. Sure, there are multiple functions and details for each attack I do not know, but they remain kicks and punches. What do you mean by "I'd have to see the result?"

It sounds like you mean animations.

 

[Hexaped]

No, heheh. I am particularly concerned with his specials. They have few uses.

 

[crotch protector]

No, heheh. I am particularly concerned with his specials. They have few uses.

I thought you said "other than decloning Ganondorf".

 

[Hexaped]

My desire for more complexity would exist whether these moves were cloned or not. I also should have mentioned that I strongly want an alternate Ganondorf costume depicting the unused TP concept art, though I desire complexity more (ultimately).

 

[crotch protector]

You may have to be a little clearer about what you mean by more complexity.

 

[Electric Tuba]

Someone mentioned the idea of a "Muscle Wizard" earlier, basically saying he doesn't throw lightning bolts willy nilly, but uses magic to make his physical attacks stronger. I think it fits his character very well.

On the other hand, I just watched that "Triforce" mod and the magic mode was sick. I could be really happy with either option.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Someone mentioned the idea of a "Muscle Wizard" earlier, basically saying he doesn't throw lightning bolts willy nilly, but uses magic to make his physical attacks stronger. I think it fits his character very well.

On the other hand, I just watched that "Triforce" mod and the magic mode was sick. I could be really happy with either option.

I imagine new Ganondorf to be a sick Warlock in terms of a tanky mage.

 

[Hexaped]

Please forgive my inadequate answer in that last post, crotch protector. First, I should state I only mentioned stuff about Mr. Sakurai for emphasis. I should have known that would disrupt my clarity. My last post probably seemed paradoxical and illogical. So, my point is: I want Ganondorf to have more functions, whether he remains a clone or not. If we must use Ganondorf as a clone again, at least add functions to his moves. If I Warlock Punch a wall, it could break. If I use Wizard's Foot and press up, Ganondorf could start flying upward; if I hold down, Ganondorf could enter a portal. These are examples of complexifying the moves. I compared this desire for complexity to the desire for complete decloning, and they are, in a way, the same thing, but not quite. Anyway, I would have answered you earlier, but I logged off before I saw your post. I hope these ideas are clear now, and I wonder if you, or anyone, would like to share some ideas for adding functions to Ganondorf. Anyway, what do you mean by "tanky mage," Oracle_Summon?

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I don't want Ganondorf removed at all, he's my main in all Super Smash Bros games, I'm not really a fan of the Zelda series, I just like Ganon and some of the characters from the series, and btw Link is one of my favorites to beat up on, I hate Link.

I don't want Ghirahim in unless Ganondorf returns as well and the only way I can see Ghirahim happening now is if they did the 666 thing, and those who don't know what that is, its the fact that to get 6 Zelda characters, we'll need 6 Mario and Pokémon characters, its easy to say who the Pokémon would be, Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, but the problem is the Mario character, who would that be, I would want it to be a character called Koopaling with seven different costumes, but I don't see that happening, I don't think we're getting 6 characters in any of the series, but then again FE jumped to 4 characters.

 

[Hexaped]

Heheh. So if you play TLoZ games, you feel hateful the entire time, AgatioGanon?

 

[Electric Tuba]

Please forgive my inadequate answer in that last post, crotch protector. First, I should state I only mentioned stuff about Mr. Sakurai for emphasis. I should have known that would disrupt my clarity. My last post probably seemed paradoxical and illogical. So, my point is: I want Ganondorf to have more functions, whether he remains a clone or not. If we must use Ganondorf as a clone again, at least add functions to his moves. If I Warlock Punch a wall, it could break. If I use Wizard's Foot and press up, Ganondorf could start flying upward; if I hold down, Ganondorf could enter a portal. These are examples of complexifying the moves. I compared this desire for complexity to the desire for complete decloning, and they are, in a way, the same thing, but not quite. Anyway, I would have answered you earlier, but I logged off before I saw your post. I hope these ideas are clear now, and I wonder if you, or anyone, would like to share some ideas for adding functions to Ganondorf. Anyway, what do you mean by "tanky mage," Oracle_Summon?

I think I'd like just the opposite, actually. In my mind it's like the difference between Street Fighter characters with tons of special moves and characters with just a couple. Sure, a thousand individual inputs can give you tons of options and flashy stuff, but having a solid character with great normals (in SF terms) is at least as good (and more fun, in my opinion).
Not trying to say that lots of specials and movement options is bad, I just don't think it really fits Ganon as well as what he is now especially in Project M!

 

[Morbi]

I think I'd like just the opposite, actually. In my mind it's like the difference between Street Fighter characters with tons of special moves and characters with just a couple. Sure, a thousand individual inputs can give you tons of options and flashy stuff, but having a solid character with great normals (in SF terms) is at least as good (and more fun, in my opinion).
Not trying to say that lots of specials and movement options is bad, I just don't think it really fits Ganon as well as what he is now especially in Project M!

I agree with this sentiment to an extent; however, more options/tools is always better than less options or tools. But you do make a good point, those extra options or tools are negligible if they have great normals and decent options. There is not need to over-complicate the character. Ganon is one of the most simple characters in Smash, so it might be nice to have more tools, but he does not "need" them, per se.

 

[Hexaped]

Canonically, Ganondorf, compared to many other SSB characters, is more cunning, more strategic, and equipped with multiple powerful spells. SSBB ignores this part of him and emphasizes his cruelty and dark magic. I would be satisfied if just his up special and down special changed to more complex things. I have no problem with the depth of Ganondorf's standard attacks.

 

[Morbi]

Canonically, Ganondorf, compared to many other SSB characters, is more cunning, more strategic, and equipped with multiple powerful spells. SSBB ignores this part of him and emphasizes his cruelty and dark magic. I would be satisfied if just his up special and down special changed to more complex things. I have no problem with the depth of Ganondorf's standard attacks.

I do not personally have a problem with Smash's interpretation of Ganondorf, as it is just that, an interpretation. I do agree though, some differences attributed to his u-special, and d-special (perhaps even his n-special, dead man's volley, please) would seem warranted as the specials moves are the most important aspect of the character. These moves are clone attacks, and therefore they represent Captain Falcon more than Ganon. Sakurai already changed "Gerudo Dragon" to "Flame Choke" which is a subtle difference that makes all of the difference in the world.

 

[Hexaped]

I should state I have no problems with anything about this character, or this game. This game, and series, symbolizes, and is, a gift which I have not earned, but was allowed to enjoy anyway. Ganondorf being playable is an extra thing. Anything I ever suggest are things I would like, not things which "should" happen. My use of the word "satisfying" in my last posts is relatively selfish, so please forgive me for that.

 

[Electric Tuba]

This is basically a thread about what we want from him, so it's cool.

I would be really surprised if they exclude him from the game, but I'm still a little worried
Though the lack of villains makes me hopeful for an all-villain trailer with Ganon and maybe

 

[Hexaped]

I agree. I was convinced Bowser was the only revealed villain for many months, but a few days ago I remembered King Dedede. Donkey Kong slightly counts, but not completely, I think.

 

[ORVO5]

So, with 3 characters from Fire Emblem (well, 4 if you want to consider Lucina, which I do), I can't imagine them leaving Ganondorf as a clone. Between the Zelda VS FE franchises, I think Zelda should have a more prominent character list. What are the odds of that happening? It seems like the sensible move but I gave up on predicting Sakurai's intentions. Though he does love to surprise his fans.

 

[Hexaped]

A "more prominent character list." Hmm. That can mean only one thing. You want Vaati and Skull Kid, like me! Sorry, that is a joke. Do you want another TLoZ representative?

 

[ORVO5]

A "more prominent character list." Hmm. That can mean only one thing. You want Vaati and Skull Kid, like me! Sorry, that is a joke. Do you want another TLoZ representative?

I think that would be great honestly. Though I wouldn't know who. Vaati would be awesome, for sure. But for the most part I just want Ganondorf with his own dark magic moveset. Maybe with a sword. Oh gosh that's starting to sound like Robin..

 

[crotch protector]

I don't want Ganondorf removed at all, he's my main in all Super Smash Bros games, I'm not really a fan of the Zelda series, I just like Ganon and some of the characters from the series, and btw Link is one of my favorites to beat up on, I hate Link.

I don't want Ghirahim in unless Ganondorf returns as well and the only way I can see Ghirahim happening now is if they did the 666 thing, and those who don't know what that is, its the fact that to get 6 Zelda characters, we'll need 6 Mario and Pokémon characters, its easy to say who the Pokémon would be, Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, but the problem is the Mario character, who would that be, I would want it to be a character called Koopaling with seven different costumes, but I don't see that happening, I don't think we're getting 6 characters in any of the series, but then again FE jumped to 4 characters.

I doubt they look at it in that way, to be honest. Mario got a new rep in Rosalina, so maybe they're thinking Zelda deserves one too. Personal preference is Ganondorf getting a revamped move set (or B moves, at least), not just because I love the big guy, but also because I think Zelda, Link, Young Link and Ganondorf represent the Zelda franchise really well (with Young Link really representing the handheld component of it now).

Sheik is just gravy. Her moveset should've been given to SS Impa imo, because SS needs some love, and (young) Impa is a babe. Also Sheik hasn't really been relevant since OOT (yes, they remade it recently, but Impa has appeared in more games than Sheik!)

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

To be honest, I'm having trouble imagining Ganondorf as a unique character among the cast should he get decloned, I'm sad to admit.

If we make him a heavy swordsman, how are we going to differentiate him from Ike to a flavorful and interesting degree?

Similarly, while the most ideal thing would have been to make him a magic-based character, Robin came along last Monday to shatter that, too.

At this point, while you'll never get me to like Clonendorf, I'm not sure exactly how unique he could be among the rest of the cast anymore either.

I might think of a few ideas later, but in the meantime it's something for the thread to think about.

 

[Hexaped]

Then Hexaped threw a note at EdgeTheLucas. EdgeTheLucas grabs the note and reads the words on the note out loud: " Give him a dagger."

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

To be honest, I'm having trouble imagining Ganondorf as a unique character among the cast should he get decloned, I'm sad to admit.

If we make him a heavy swordsman, how are we going to differentiate him from Ike to a flavorful and interesting degree?

Similarly, while the most ideal thing would have been to make him a magic-based character, Robin came along last Monday to shatter that, too.

At this point, while you'll never get me to like Clonendorf, I'm not sure exactly how unique he could be among the rest of the cast anymore either.

I might think of a few ideas later, but in the meantime it's something for the thread to think about.

This is why I'm open to possibly replacing Ganondorf with a new character, but in which this new character is actually Monster Ganon, I'm a strong supporter of Ganon being the so called new Zelda character, he has the trident, which nobody uses a trident, and its a fresh new beginning for Ganon in Super Smash Bros, of course he's still Ganon and I could see Monster Ganon getting a Ganondorf costume where he wears the outfit of his humanoid Gerudo counterpart.

If anybody were to replace Ganondorf as a new Zelda character, it should be Ganon.

So Ganondorf fans, what do you think of the new King of Evil, should we see this instead?

I want Ganondorf, but as I said, this would be a really good idea just to use this Ganon instead if they wanted a Zelda Newcomer, its a fresh start for Ganon, trident user, could easily just put him in a Ganondorf costume to keep our beloved Ganondorf in the game because basically, Ganondorf is Ganon, also a Yuga Ganon costume should be in, I want to to see LBTW get some love with Ganon with a Yuga Ganon costume, Zelda with a Hilda costume and Toonlink with a Ravio costume.

Oh and for fun, he could have a Emboar costume, lol.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

@ H Hexaped

Meh

@ TeamFlareZakk

I'd love that, I like the games where you fight Ganon more than Ganondorf's games anyway, but I still want a decloned Ganondorf, too. That way, we get a nice set of six Zelda characters: Two versions of Link, two versions of Zelda, and two versions of Ganondorf.

It makes a lot of sense, even if I want Impa to be in the game, too.

 

[Hexaped]

I understand. The dagger, though canonical, seems unpopular. Who would be the other Zelda?

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I understand. The dagger, though canonical, seems unpopular. Who would be the other Zelda?

I guess Sheik, but then again I think Sheik represents more than another Zelda, she represents a Zelda race known as the sheikah, and seeing that Impa is one, cross your fingers for Impa costume, oh and considering Gerudos are very similar to Sheikah, a Gerudo Sheik would be neat to see.

Anyway if they did add both Ganondorf and Ganon, that brings this up, who's the last Mario character?

That means we'd be looking at 666 on the roster, 6 Mario, 6 Zelda and 6 Pokémon, and you might as well confirm both Mewtwo and Jigglypuff for Pokémon, but what about Mario?

I would like if that final Mario character was a character named Koopaling, not Bowser Jr, and we can switch between all 8 Koopaling costumes.

I don't see this happening though, I think Ganon will be in whether its the same Ganondorf with new moves or Monster Ganon as a Newcomer, its probably most likely either one of the Ganons that are the final character for the Zelda series.

 

[Hexaped]

I would like to play as Iggy or Morton or Ludwig particularly, so consider me a supporter for that idea. I shall not try to guess how Ganon will be represented in SSB4. And, @ TeamFlareZakk : to create a distinct Ganondorf, Mr. Sakurai can use him as the "criminal" character of SSB4. He would have specials like "Steal," "Threaten," or "Dark Curse" which would allow Ganondorf users to capture hostages, magically seal the specials of others, and other things.

 

[Nintendo Fan]

Ganondorf simply cannot be cut, and I really doubt that this is what's going to happen. He's so crucial to the Zelda series, I mean, the list would go on forever. That being said, this fact brings into question who the sixth Zelda representative would be as well. If Ganon is finally changed, for instance, to become a necromantic-sword wielder (like Robin), then I think whoever the newcomer would be (if there even would be one; there has to be) wouldn't become another magical, evil character like the aforementioned type of Ganondorf. This could be interpreted as being a clone by some and I think they would try to get a more “unique” character. Don't get me wrong, Impa (some say would be like sheik) and Vaati for example are both viable newcomers, but aside from the whole controversy over Lucina, It makes me wonder who could fit this kid of bill. But, this is just my opinion...