Ganondorf will be a good character.

[:034:]

Lots of people here are extremely worried about Ganondorf as a character. So bad that he shouldn't even be playable? I say, nonsense! Ganondorf might be a bit of a slow learner, but still a good character. Why, you ask?

Well, first, as various members have brought up, this is BRAWL Ganon. Not MELEE Ganon. You play him in a different way, and people have to get used to this. Understandable, of course, but at least try to find out his new way of gameplay before just plain saying 'omfg gann is teh crap'.

Next, his Forward B is possibly one of his new best moves. A DASHING GRAB. It slams your opponent to the ground as well. Shield against their get-up attack and try to grab them again, perhaps? Or when they roll, chase them? Or if possible, tech chase? The possibilities are seemingly endless. Not to mention that, in the air, Ganon grabs the opponent and takes him down with him. Ganoncide. Actual Ganondorf fans who took the time to actually think about how good Ganondorf COULD be know about this already.

Third, his upair still does the reverse spike. Sure, SHFFL'ing doesn't work the same, but this could still work in a different way. And with the dair spike, he still has two spikes left.

Fourth, bair can be canceled. Any Ganon player knows how awesome his bair is, me especially because the fair got nerfed in PAL version.

Fifth, a lot of attacks got changed a bit. Sure, not enough to completly save his metagame, but they might still be worked into it. We don't know, honestly. Since a lot of people don't even have this game yet, we have no idea how Ganondorf's metagame is gonna work out.

tl;dr version: Stop bashing Ganondorf. He will still be very good. Nobody knows since the game has only been out for a small while.

 

[DarkSpidey13]

hey, now here's a Ganondorf thread i like!

i've gotta say, i agree with every single one of your points. everyone (well, MOST everyone) is being extremely pessimistic about changes to the character without even really giving him a chance, i.e., making judgments based mostly on a lot of videos of brief and poorly executed stints with the character. the game has only been out for a few days, you cannot learn all of his new idiosyncrasies in that time.

i'm happy, though, because we've started to get some videos of competent players doing really cool things with Ganondorf. and even still, if everyone decides not to play Ganon, it'll make it that much sweeter for me since apparently i'd be one of the few people who plan to get really good with the character in Brawl.


i mourn the loss of his infinite jumps, though...

 

[SmashBro99]

Alrighty, good to see some of you guys haven't given up on him yet.

Screw "he could have been better", let's work with what we got.

 

[Demon King]

Hear, hear! :D Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so!

Ganondorf is such an awesome fighter in Melee, it's a shame for some people not to even give him a chance because of some of the changes in Brawl. True, there have been some crappy changes, but I still believe a real master of him can cause some serious ownage.

The only regret I have is that it will probably still take ages for me to try him out myself... *needs to wait for the PAL version*

 

[vastler]

hey! now this is a thread

Screw those who said "he could have been better".I like playing him in melee and i'll play him again in brawl
Ganon:Aaaaaaaahhhhh!!!(BOOM) (instant K.O)

 

[Blackadder]

*Subs*
*Awards thread of the year*

Seems like we'll all get to know each other on the Ganon forums very well over the next few years...

I say we keep threads like these going, and make good of the Ganonbaby we've been given for Brawl! Who knows? He may be far better on the tier list of Brawl than he ever was in Melee.

 

[Brawleri]

I'm tired of the comments ''He sucks'', ''He has too much lag''
I'm sick of them, and no matter what, I'll become a great ganondorf player. He looks so friggin sick with all that armor and all. Love the TP design.

Gonna stick to Ganondorf, he'll be one of my mains.
This isn't melee, this is brawl. And i'm sure people who've played hi, and are complaining about lag, they have tried to play him like in melee. But that's wrong. This... is.... BRAWL

I love challenges, and Ganon sounds and looks like hella lot fun. His animations are just so fukken tight!

 

[:034:]

That's the spirit guys! Haha, looks like the Ganondorf Board is gonna be a pretty tight community.

But really, nobody right now can say for sure whether or not Ganondorf will suck. There might be so many things, new ways to play, new techniques to use that will increase and further his metagame. This might even take a couple of years, but I'm definitely sticking with Ganondorf through his Brawl run. It'll be tough, but totally worth it.

 

[TidalSpiral]

I'm going to keep this streak of positivity going, because I too loved making people cry with his almight spiking power. :D I was first upset about hearing that several characters retained similarities to others, but as it turned out once I read deeper they each seem to get at least one new B style move, and everything else is altered in ways to make them unique. I can't wait to see a real rundown of his A moves... especially after seeing how much difference they have made to Falco and Wolf. Really looking forward to this - and that thing about grabbing people and carrying them down with you sounds badass.

 

[flashfox]

I won't bring my usual negativity into this topic, and I applaud your efforts in this topic and hope you are right.

For the record, I totally disagree with this topic in it's entirety.

But good luck. I hope I'm proven wrong. My gut tells me I won't be.

 

[triforceswordmaster]

nice job, i was waiting for a thread without every other word being "lag" or "nerf." i hear a lot of people saying hes much weaker, but i saw a vid where he was fighting yoshi and he put 60 percent on him in a flash. yeah, that how the King of Evil rolls.

 

[WhiteCerberus]

True, true. People seem to underestimate Ganondorf's ability to rack up damage. He'll always have that. Great thread. As long as we keep being positive, we'll just keep finding ways to play Ganondorf better.

 

[jellis186]

Lets just hope

 

[EvilGenki]

I appreciate the optimism; Uncle G was my main in Melee and I have to admit that I was less than thrilled when I saw initial footage of his new moves. However, new and exciting discoveries seem to be popping up quickly such as his tech-chasing potential, so I'm still very much looking forward to how The 'Dorf has changed.

 

[Cancel]

hey, now here's a Ganondorf thread i like!

i've gotta say, i agree with every single one of your points. everyone (well, MOST everyone) is being extremely pessimistic about changes to the character without even really giving him a chance, i.e., making judgments based mostly on a lot of videos of brief and poorly executed stints with the character. the game has only been out for a few days, you cannot learn all of his new idiosyncrasies in that time.

i'm happy, though, because we've started to get some videos of competent players doing really cool things with Ganondorf. and even still, if everyone decides not to play Ganon, it'll make it that much sweeter for me since apparently i'd be one of the few people who plan to get really good with the character in Brawl.


i mourn the loss of his infinite jumps, though...

You'll be playing ganon along with me another ganon user.

 

[Aurashade]

I hope he'll be a good character.

 

[Locke66]

me too.... i loved him in melee. I think at this point, people are too quick to judge a character as good/bad from just a few vids. It'll be a long time before every character's potential is really known. So even if ganon looks bad to some people now, I still have hope.

 

[jellis186]

The problem with a lot of the videos now, is that people are trying to play brawl gannon like melee gannon. Once we figure out where is strengths are (as it stands now it looks like his bair, uair and b>) he will be fine

 

[flashfox]

His airs are still his strength, but everything else is gone, replaced by worse moves. Basically the only way to play this Ganon from what we've seen so far is his aerials, power game, and over-b. His get out of trouble move is still gone. In return, we have a touted over-b replacement, a move that doesn't exactly have good priority, as you are running into the attack that you are trying to get away from, so in this case, even that isn't an escape move. If ganon just KEPT that jab then the opinion of ganon being good would be drastically different.

The new ganon is:
Slower
Has less priority
Less range
Worse recovery.
Side-B combo.
Chain throwing.

But gains:
Stronger (in a sense..?)
A tech chasing move/suicide move
Instant cancel b-air/u-air/d-air?
More relance in power moves.
Minor changes in movesets of power moves (turn around neutral b, suction/cancel u-tilt)

 

[Magus420]

Actually his b-air and u-air autocancels were a lot better in Melee too. The b-air in Melee could be used so late that it could hit just before landing and still autocancel. You could hit short and most crouching characters with it.

From what I've seen in Brawl, it needs to be used so that it hits near the peak of the jump for it to still cancel when you land. Whenever he's in the air, most characters will likely be able to duck to avoid his safer autocancellable air attacks which could prove to be a problem.

Ganon's not quite as lucky as others like Peach for example who's f-air, while laggy, has such huge autocancel windows that it can autocancel during the actual attacking part, just so long as it's not like right in the middle of it. The windows are so big that people actually had a hard time deciding if float cancelling was in (in Melee if you attack out of a float then land you get 0 extra lag) becuase it's so hard not to autocancel it.

Unfortunately, none of Ganon's airs have a "good" autocancel on them, but you gotta take what you can get.

 

[JaCkM-5]

ganondorf's TP appearance scares me...

 

[D1]

Suction cancel utlit? What's that flashfox?

 

[Stryks]

Im happywith what ive seen so far, his side b is sweet, his attacks are faster, sure his aerials may have lag, but when they hit, it wont matter much, I say LONG LIVE THE KING OF DARKNESS!

 

[e105beta]

You're too negative about the situation flashfox. Ganondorf isn't worse, he's just different. He's just another character to learn to master.

As Barak Obama would say: Now is the time for change!

 

[chaos971]

Bravo Flying Dutchman, bravo. But seriously, I can't wait to use him. His raw power(apparently the best in the game in that department) will hopefully help him out.

 

[BEHR]

Yuh you speak the truth Ganon is still good.

 

[Wolx]

The only problem I have seen with the new Ganon is fact that whole how to make up for his recovery and how to solve his problem with landing a hit effectively without suffering.

Something I encountered while playing is if you can keep up your tech chase game with his side B, you can change it up to land a stomp and continue onto with an u-air to land massive damage, and the fact the u-air is more of a kill move is also helpful for Ganon.

 

[flashfox]

Suction cancel utlit? What's that flashfox?

Apprently, from what I've heard, you can cancel U-tilt...the / represents 2 different properties, you can cancel u-tilt and you can use it to suck people in...

You're too negative about the situation flashfox. Ganondorf isn't worse, he's just different. He's just another character to learn to master.

As Barak Obama would say: Now is the time for change!

Barack Obama, I'm being nit-picky because I actually like him.

Secondly, too negative? Everyone else here sounds like they are in the denial stage, or the bargaining stage. You want to talk about different? Name me other characters that got changed this badly for the worse. Seriously.

 

[:034:]

Name me other characters that got changed this badly for the worse. Seriously.

Yoshi.

Spoiler

10char'd

 

[~Shin~]

I'm not going to rewrite what I wrote in the other thread.

If you don't have what it takes to main Ganondorf then get out of these threads, honestly. Pessimism doesn't help anyone, and it shows a coward right away.

I'd rather charge headfirst into certain death, knowing I'm giving it my all, than to be a coward. Its a personal choice that nobody can tell me is wrong. So if you can't understand that, get out.

Ganondorf is my main.

~Shin_Ganondorf~

 

[Twilight Emblem]

God, i love you shin. And flying dutchman

Thank you for spreading the good news that everybody needs to hear.
I'm glad to see people are turning the other cheek about ganondorf, i come back after 5 days and this place has blossemed into a place of hope and praise for ganondorf instead of all that bloody complaining.

And i agree, if people still hate ganondorf after all the good points hes being givin now, they need to main somebody else.

I wouldn't say i'm in the denial stage flashfox. I'd say i'm in the stage where i'm acceptant that hes changed and that i accept said change and embrace the fact that its going to be fun to learn to play with this guy.

 

[ryukotsusei]

monkey poo

~ryu~

 

[WarZ]

I will defenitly main him even if he plays completly different and is hard to master. Makes me sick no one will give the Master of Darkness a chance =/. Cant wai to pwn all the n00b sonics.

 

[Mama]

I have to admit I was worried at first but not about his speed since I know its Brawl Ganondorf lol. But because of his recovery nerf (not having a jump after the down B) I want to have Ganondorf in my rotation along with Ike (another I'm hoping can make up for his slowness with tactics.) and some other characters. Ganondorf was my second in Melee but I'm not sure if he will be in Brawl though since theres so many interesting characters.

 

[Warlock*G]

I'm not going to rewrite what I wrote in the other thread.

If you don't have what it takes to main Ganondorf then get out of these threads, honestly. Pessimism doesn't help anyone, and it shows a coward right away.

I'd rather charge headfirst into certain death, knowing I'm giving it my all, than to be a coward. Its a personal choice that nobody can tell me is wrong. So if you can't understand that, get out.

Ganondorf is my main.

~Shin_Ganondorf~

Cowardice? I wouldn't say that, but I'll say something that somebody once told me:

**** tiers. If we wanna get better with a character and actually improve him we need to stop caring about his position on the charts.

 

[e105beta]

Speed isn't such a big deal in Brawl. Now that Fox combos don't go so fast that you can't think, slower isn't necessarily so big. Lag isn't such a big deal, and as much as I have seen, most of G-Dorf's moves have increased in speed.

 

[Shrunk!!!]

Sorry if I sound a tad odd when I discuss Ganon. I mained him in melee, and plan to main him again in brawl. I do not own brawl, nor have played it. I haven't even see it played in person. I played in local tournaments in my city/town, and did pretty well. But this thread isn't the best place to explain it.

Now, back on topic.
From what I've seen so far in videos his warlock punch has been buffed slightly. It does 32-35 damage and has an approximate cast time of 1.4-1.6. In melee I do think it was longer than that and did less damage. I believe after you use it you can't recover in mid air, unlike in melee.

His recover/Up B does around 11 damage and looks substantially weaker and has a bit less knock back than before. But don't quote me on it.

His Down B looks like it does also 10 damage and has very little knockback. It seems to have been nerfed pretty deeply.

------On my last note, I haven't seen much of him in action but I'm still happy that they haven't changed him that much. He still looks pretty bad-*** and looks like a heavy hitting smasher.

 

[gringo66]

Speed isn't such a big deal in Brawl. Now that Fox combos don't go so fast that you can't think, slower isn't necessarily so big. Lag isn't such a big deal, and as much as I have seen, most of G-Dorf's moves have increased in speed.

i would have to agree with u. ganondorf is gonna be a pretty decent character i think.

 

[Warlock*G]

From what I've seen so far in videos his warlock punch has been buffed slightly. It does 32-35 damage and has an approximate cast time of 1.4-1.6. In melee I do think it was longer than that and did less damage.

You're right, it did 30 to 32 in Melee, before the setbacks from using it too much.

 

[Catmunnies]

Name me other characters that got changed this badly for the worse. Seriously.

We don't know if anyone in brawl got changed badly for the worse; the game came out in January. Why are so many people judging ganon based on what they know about melee and a buncha videos of crappy ganon players. Like in melee there will probably be counters in brawl, and some characters will probably be better than others, but did you forget that skill is actually a factor in smash. After brawl has been out long enough for ganon players to become skilled at this game, not melee, and they say he sucks, then he sucks.