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Ganondorf v Captain f

Grinin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
220
Location
Houston, TX
My and my buddies play melee alot and we all have chosen our "main" characters. Mine being ganondorf. I cant seem to beat our captain falcon. What would be a good set of "combos" or rules to go by when facing a captain f

i can SHFL
i can L-cancel
practicing chain grab right now actually
and wave dash semi-consistently
:confused:

EDIT: lol just realized my friend has been posting on my account.
 

spider_sense

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
2,295
Location
Miami, FL (Ives Dairy)
My and my buddies play melee alot and we all have chosen our "main" characters. Mine being ganondorf. I cant seem to beat our captain falcon. What would be a good set of "combos" or rules to go by when facing a captain f

i can SHFL
i can L-cancel
practicing chain grab right now actually
and wave dash semi-consistently
:confused:
I'm pretty sure we'll cover the matchup as soon as it comes up in the matchup thread. I can expound on it later, but for now you need to practice your techs and run with better consistency.
 

n0ne

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
509
Location
Toronto, Ontario
yup, be unpredictable with your techs, remember WHEN AND IN WHAT moment to tech in place OR roll (because of knee), at 70 percent (kind of) start throwing upwards instead of down, bair and tipman uair are betterchoices for edgeguarding, and IMO i feel safe with ganon while playing near the ledge for any emergency as oposed to middle of stage. to abuse I. frames.

sorry, in a hurry maybe later ill fix this
 

Pr0jecT

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
509
Location
SWFL/NY
grab>dthrow jab and punish the missed tech with a fair.

Works wonders on falcon in the low-mid %'s
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
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The back country, GA
DI is extremely important vs Falcon since his approach and combo ability are so good vs Ganon. It's important to keep a close eye on your damage. If you're familiar with Falcon's normal combos you'll have a good idea at what's coming at you, which helps a lot. Here's something I typed up a while back. The numbers are rough estimations.

vs Falcon

When you are below 30 and not right next to the edge, DI everything way.

When you are 30-70 (70 is a broad estimation and will vary between stages and other specifics), DI away until you see the knee coming (you should have enough time to react) and then survival DI (up and slightly in).

Above 80 you basically survival DI everything, with a few exceptions.
Also, check out the Techchasing thread for some ideas on improving your offense and decision making.
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
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Cbus, Ohio
If the falcon you're playing just throws out random nairs at you and you can easily see them coming, use an angled up ftilt to knock him back, if you time it right you wont get hit. This won't really help you win against him on its own but it'll stop him from getting free pressure on you.
 

Grinin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
220
Location
Houston, TX
I'm pretty sure we'll cover the matchup as soon as it comes up in the matchup thread. I can expound on it later, but for now you need to practice your techs and run with better consistency.
Thanks ill try that next time i play, also im bad at punishing and i am so close to connecting my combos. I use My Dair alot against him also.
 

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
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Colver, PA
up angle f tilts and b air destroy just about all of his approaches.

grab a lot.

punch more than you grab a lot

edge guard cause falcons bad at recovering

GG
 

Grinin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
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Houston, TX
up angle f tilts and b air destroy just about all of his approaches.

grab a lot.

punch more than you grab a lot

edge guard cause falcons bad at recovering

GG
Lol yea i do edge guard him alot, played him today i won 3/10 games wich is alot better and hes only got 2 life left when he beats me, closing the gap!

Also, i Down-B to finish sometimes is that bad =D
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
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Messages
11,536
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The back country, GA
If you mean finish with a down-B SPIKE, that is the best finisher Ganon has, and is quite useful against falcon. If you mean a down-B on the ground, generally not a good idea.
 

Grinin

Smash Journeyman
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May 24, 2008
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Houston, TX
Tounament this weekend going just to get better tho, but anyway yea all this has helped ALOT its a much more even match up just need to work on some situational things,

On a side note and hints or tips for facing Falco Fox and Jiggly?
 

Grinin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
220
Location
Houston, TX
just don't.
Lol


This is both of us playing neither of us did good this game, but still kinda gives yall an idea of what we do.:reverse:

Also, im pretty bad at spacing if you couldn't tell, what can i do to fix this?
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
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accept the fact that you're gonna lose a bunch of matches practicing getting good at spacing, then take your time and literally work on hitting with the very tip of every hitbox. Once you get it down with a few attacks the way you play will change drastically and you'll notice a bunch of small things that you haven't noticed before.
 

Grinin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
220
Location
Houston, TX
accept the fact that you're gonna lose a bunch of matches practicing getting good at spacing, then take your time and literally work on hitting with the very tip of every hitbox. Once you get it down with a few attacks the way you play will change drastically and you'll notice a bunch of small things that you haven't noticed before.
Yea thats really the main reason im going this weekend, practice against some one that im not familiar with, try new things and .... spacing which seems like its gonna take awhile but owell
 

A2ZOMG

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NNID
A2ZOMG
Switch FC
SW 8400 1713 9427
imo Falcon destroys you until you learn how the matchup works and what spacing tricks and gimp tactics save you.

Renth covered it pretty concisely. I also consider SHFFL U-air really good in this matchup. It outranges most of Falcon's moves and it can anti-air him pretty well. Sometimes F-air is a tad too slow to stop Falcon's approach. Throw out a spaced U-air to mix things up and keep him on his toes.

Also generally speaking, if he's any good, try not to shieldgrab him out of aerials too much. Wait for him to do Jabs and then try to go for a grab as he Jab cancels.


Other matchups:

vs Jiggs...basically depends on whether or not you can somehow get the lead. She's extremely hard to deal with when she's camping.

And I honestly don't know what to do against a good Fox and Falco as Ganon besides throwing out random F-tilts and winning off of techchases and perfect edgeguards.
 

VGmasta

Smash Lord
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West Palm Beach, FL + the Doc Boards!!
Haha, Ricky doesn't love me anymore <3
Nothin' of the sort... You did fine when you were here in G'ville.
But you're not in G'ville anymore... and ALL the Falcons here just camp me to death and it's like Ganon just sucks against fast characters.
But then all I see is Linguini and RockCrock wreck face on all of G'ville and then I get skeptical. :urg:
 

Nujabes

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Nothin' of the sort... You did fine when you were here in G'ville.
But you're not in G'ville anymore... and ALL the Falcons here just camp me to death and it's like Ganon just sucks against fast characters.
But then all I see is Linguini and RockCrock wreck face on all of G'ville and then I get skeptical. :urg:
In houston there are SO MANY FALCONS......:urg:
 

Nujabes

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 24, 2010
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Lol, that god i played 3 diffrent flacons the other night.

What would yall say is ganon's biggest asset in playing against falcon
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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The back country, GA
usmash OOS maybe?
Noooooo, lol.

It's hard to say what kind of answer he's looking for. As far as tactics I'd say techchasing, since a good portion of the battle vs falcon is trying to get him offstage (easy ko), and tech chasing (primarily with fair at mid-high%) is one of the best ways to accomplish this.

Another big portion of the matchup is dealing with falcon's approaches. Thus, move-wise, I would say bair, uair, ftilt, and even ganon's rolls. Jabs are very important when you're in a tight spot and fair is obviously important for techchasing/getting falcon offstage like I said earlier.
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
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Cbus, Ohio
both. If you can hit him before he hits you (when he approaches with a nair you're ftilt will safely beat him) then you should do that, if you can't you should do your best to not get hit.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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The back country, GA
When you say dealing with them do you mean avoiding or stoping them..
Pretty much what Dipn said. If you don't have enough time or the proper positioning to space an attack that will beat his approach (this happens a good bit vs falcon since he is so fast), you're most likely going to want to shield the incoming aerial and buffer a roll away from falcon (this is what I meant when I mentioned ganon's rolls inmy last post; while shielding the incoming attack, simply hold left or right on the c-stick to roll on the first possible frame).

If you have enough time/the proper positioning, you can beat falcon's nair with a spaced bair, uair, or up-angled ftilt. Fair can also win the exchange when fully spaced, and jab can also beat out the nair if it isn't spaced properly (when he's coming in hard).

CC jab (or even jab + downward ASDI) can technically beat the nair every time if he's within range. The first hit of falcons nair has no knockback growth (does the same thing regardless of the enemy's damage), and jab is just fast enough to hit falcon before the second hit of the nair comes after you've absorbed the first hit. Not a very reliable strat unless you're very fast and become consistent, but it's good to know.

For the knee, you have similar options, but you have to know what you're dealing with. Trading hits with the knee is seldom favorable for ganon. When challenging the knee, you must be ready to DI properly in the event that you trade hits (and obv if you are at kill% you want to chose your battles wisely). Imo up-angled ftilt, uair, bair, and fair are good for this.
 

Superspright

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
1,334
No offense Nujabes, but your Ganon really needs some work. I saw you attempting to waveland here and there and messing it up royaly, and thus getting punished. No wavedashing really, poor move choices (like wizkick when not following a tech roll) and what not.

I'd say just work on your tech skill, because my Ganon sucks, and I can consistently waveland anywhere, and wavedash out of shield. You hardly if ever used your shield. You went so aggro it was insane. Ganon can't be played that way against a competent opponent. You're gonna get kneed all day long.
 

Bl@ckChris

Smash Hero
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Oct 4, 2009
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Greensboro, NC
haha that sounds like my ganon about a year ago.

with practice, you'll understand what needs to become and you can get yourself on the road to becoming a solid ganon. I can't watch the vids now cuz I'm on my phone on a bus, but the more you play, the btter decisions you'll make, and the more you practice the better ur tech skill will be.

keep it up man
 
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