Q&A Gameplay Q&A and General Discussion Thread

[tatatat0]

The snapping above platforms from below that I described before cause hitbox interpolation causes it to hit both above and below the ledge.

 

[cstonic]

https://twitter.com/TonicSSB/status/695368037927489536
Check it out in action here

Found this a little while ago, let me know if this isnt the right place for the thread! I couldnt see a moveset thread

Inputs

Jump or double jump

Dair off stage

Side special into the stage

Cancel side special cling with jump

Double jump

Up special

OR

If you double jump > dair'd, just cancel side special with jump and immediately up special

 

[MaximalGFX]

So when should I use Nair and Fair? They seems to do pretty much the same thing to me... Is Nair better to approach and Fair better to juggle?

 

[CCCM89]

Has anyone else reached the conclusion that Corrin is a Mix-up based character, what with the autospacing Bair, charging both the stun and the bite on Neutral-B, and all the craziness you can do with the Side-B? to me, that's what he/she feels like. am I wrong? If not wrong, how can I edgeguard using side-B while off stage and stabbed into the edge/side?

 

[CCCM89]

Down-throw scales better with rage.

Merging to Q&A thread.

ah, so if I'm doing well, up-throw to kill. if I'm struggling or the damage is higher on me, down throw.

 

[Benoas]

Pretty sure this belongs in the general discussion sticky, just as general advice always check what's being talked about in the stickies before posting a new thread and if you're still in doubt pm a mod to ask!

I do agree though that corrins dair seems pretty good against gimpable opponents if the stage is suitable to be wall pinned

 

[Deemo]

Interesting. I've been experimenting with Corrin's F-air for a bit, and while you are unable to execute any of his/her aerials out of a short hop afterwards, what you CAN do however, is a Dragon Lunge into the floor just as you're about to land. This seems like a fairly decent coverage option against opponents who either roll behind or away from you. You have to input the F-air at the very beginning of the jump though, but it isn't TOO strict of a timing.

 

[Linq]

You can also footstool your opponent after the dair if you get them with it, as in https://youtu.be/fYCqYJtqtiQ

 

[CCCM89]

Interesting. I've been experimenting with Corrin's F-air for a bit, and while you are unable to execute any of his/her aerials out of a short hop afterwards, what you CAN do however, is a Dragon Lunge into the floor just as you're about to land. This seems like a fairly decent coverage option against opponents who either roll behind or away from you. You have to input the F-air at the very beginning of the jump though, but it isn't TOO strict of a timing.

I have noticed that as well, and have used it extensively in my own play. as long as you don't kick towrads the enemy on shield, you're safe. kicking away, or jumping into a Fair/Nair/Dair works better. Well, that or stalling until they try something before kicking them in the face.

 

[cstonic]

Pretty sure this belongs in the general discussion sticky, just as general advice always check what's being talked about in the stickies before posting a new thread and if you're still in doubt pm a mod to ask!

I do agree though that corrins dair seems pretty good against gimpable opponents if the stage is suitable to be wall pinned

Gotcha, and yeah, its really nice
I've gotten a ton of kills with it but I usually die too lmao

You can also footstool your opponent after the dair if you get them with it, as in https://youtu.be/fYCqYJtqtiQ

I knew about this, its pretty good
Usually guarantees death

 

[Opana]

You can ledge hop double jump, dair, and recover with an upward da but tge timin is strict.

Also hi tonic lol

 

[Noro~]

If you full hop before using Dair offstage you don't actually need a wall to SideB on. Double jump + UpB is enough, though you have to UpB straight up. It will be just enough to barely snap to the ledge.

 

[Gemzelda_ss]

Has it been mentioned that short hop falling fair into tipper fsmash (angled up) is a true combo at 29-39 % (weight dependent) and it deals a whopping 23%?

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

How exactly does the tipper mechanic work? The further down the sword, the more knockback, or is a the sword divided into say 3 sections, with each section having its own knockback, increasing closer to the tip?

Also, does fsmash gain reach when the opponent is closer? I feel like the sword extends or something when it "knows a few more feet will get the hit.

 

[Locuan]

Expanding on Reizilla 's post earlier.

I've been messing a lot with d-tilt > u-air as it seems to be a kill confirm on certain characters. Particularly characters within the 108-99 weight group as they seem incredibly susceptible to it. Keep in mind this has been tested without Rage, and without DI. More specifically:

• No Rage
• No DI
• On FD
• Using Outer Portion of the blade.

Notes
It'd be awesome if someone could double check my info. See if my ranges are wrong/correct them. Especially under different DI situations. For the lower percent ranges, it was done from a short hop. The higher percent ranges, full hop. Yoshi is super weird. When getting this combo to kill, the timing was super strict. So it leads me to believe it has to do with the characters hurtboxes and a very short/precise? frame window. As you can see some of these ranges vary quite dramatically even between characters that share the same weight. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if I have mistakes on these ranges. I haven't been able to find a character in another weight group that I can kill with this combo.

I'm also writing down what I find here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pH1L_b-Ub6xHNYpgshjsMWaQb-5IVMgr0FGSZT_5NNc/edit#gid=0

Character | %Range | Kills? | Weight
Bowser Jr. | 63-111 | 111 | 108
Samus | 63-103 | 102-103 | 108
Ike | 57-120 | 113-120 | 107
Wario | 57-114 | 113-114 | 107
ROB | 60-117 | 107-117 | 106
Captain Falcon | 61-126 | 112-126 | 104
Link | 56-112 | 108-112 | 104
Yoshi | 63-91? | No? | 104
Ryu | 56-110 | 106-110 | 103
Shulk (base) | 56-111 | 105-111 | 102
Megaman | 56-122 | 113-122 | 102
Cloud | 55-120 | 109-120 | 100
Lucario | 55-119 | 108-112 | 99

 

[cstonic]

You can ledge hop double jump, dair, and recover with an upward da but tge timin is strict.

Also hi tonic lol

ooo thats cool
and yooo

If you full hop before using Dair offstage you don't actually need a wall to SideB on. Double jump + UpB is enough, though you have to UpB straight up. It will be just enough to barely snap to the ledge.

actually didnt know this, i suck at getting straight up b
going to start practicing that

 

[Noro~]

actually didnt know this, i suck at getting straight up b
going to start practicing that

An easy way to get straight UpBs is doing them like this:
+ > or
+ >

The important part is to face the ledge when using UpB, otherwise it won't autosnap to the ledge.

 

[Harmonious]

So despite what many people seem to think, I have been able to dair right off the ledge and recover perfectly fine. Maybe it's because of how his/her up special works people think it's suicide? (You have to let the up B charge for a few frames before inputting the opposite direction you're facing in order to go straight up; only works very near the ledge)
[EDIT]: Whoops, just saw the thread for this. My bad.

 

[Harmonious]

actually didnt know this, i suck at getting straight up b
going to start practicing that

I found out that in order to get straight up B you have to let the move kind of "charge" for a few frames before inputting in the opposite direction you're facing.

 

[Raziek]

https://twitter.com/TonicSSB/status/695368037927489536
Check it out in action here

Found this a little while ago, let me know if this isnt the right place for the thread! I couldnt see a moveset thread

Inputs

Jump or double jump

Dair off stage

Side special into the stage

Cancel side special cling with jump

Double jump

Up special

OR

If you double jump > dair'd, just cancel side special with jump and immediately up special

Yeah, as mentioned, this is better off in the gameplay discussion thread. Merging.

 

[Reizilla]

Locuan I first noticed it on zss. It combo'd in high percents and killed I think at 95% from a full hop. I got it to true combo from a double jump up until 105 but it was a really really strict timing.

Edit: Just remembered that this was on Smashville. Does it have a lower ceiling than FD? That might have been it.

 

[Redpunter]

If Corrin's side B is spaced correctly, it can be used to ledge trump. This is possibly faster then running off stage and sliding into the ledge. I have not compared yet, but I wanted to get this out here for people to see/test. I know personally I have issues ledge trumping, but this is extremely easy once you get your spacing down.

Also, this allows for a multitude of mind games, because you may or may not go for the dragon fang, which allows you to scare your opponent if they recover low

Pros-
It actually is slightly faster, but only by somewhere between 0.40/0.50 of a second, so about 25-30 frames
It allows for multiple options

Cons-
If over-spaced, you're more the likely dead/gimped by your opponent
Underspacing is fine, you just won't get ledge, and you'll probably be hit by a get up attack from ledge if dragons fang doesn't come out.


(for reference, if you go on Omega Battlefield. On the left hand side of the stage, there should be a broken pillar. To the left of that is a tiny bush. If you use side b right as you pass that, you should successfully do it)

 

[Locuan]

Locuan I first noticed it on zss. It combo'd in high percents and killed I think at 95% from a full hop. I got it to true combo from a double jump up until 105 but it was a really really strict timing.

Edit: Just remembered that this was on Smashville. Does it have a lower ceiling than FD? That might have been it.

Yep lower ceiling. That means that at stages like Smashville this can kill characters on other groups.

 

[Reizilla]

Yep lower ceiling. That means that at stages like Smashville this can kill characters on other groups.

Ah, gotcha!

Someone asked about Side B edge guarding. If you run off and reverse Side B, there's a way to stick the ledge so that when you kick toward the stage, the kick stays at ledge height. This can take advantage of characters with weak recoveries like Captain Falcon and Rosalina and even stage spike (possibly even get the 2 frame?) if timed correctly.

Something I want to try is if you can pressure the opponent with a B-air well enough to keep them away from the ledge but space it to where you can get a Side B stick right afterward and then just punish their recover with the kick toward the blast zone while their recovery is more predictable...

 

[Raziek]

If Corrin's side B is spaced correctly, it can be used to ledge trump. This is possibly faster then running off stage and sliding into the ledge. I have not compared yet, but I wanted to get this out here for people to see/test. I know personally I have issues ledge trumping, but this is extremely easy once you get your spacing down.

Also, this allows for a multitude of mind games, because you may or may not go for the dragon fang, which allows you to scare your opponent if they recover low

Pros-
It actually is slightly faster, but only by somewhere between 0.40/0.50 of a second, so about 25-30 frames
It allows for multiple options

Cons-
If over-spaced, you're more the likely dead/gimped by your opponent
Underspacing is fine, you just won't get ledge, and you'll probably be hit by a get up attack from ledge if dragons fang doesn't come out.


(for reference, if you go on Omega Battlefield. On the left hand side of the stage, there should be a broken pillar. To the left of that is a tiny bush. If you use side b right as you pass that, you should successfully do it)

This is general enough that I'm merging it with the Gameplay thread.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Some people were talking about it earlier, but you can recover after a full hop dair on any stage pretty easily actually. As long as you double jump almost as soon as possible, and Up b at the apex of your jump, you will get back. No footstool or wallstick needed.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Are we sure fair > fair is a true combo? Doesn't seem to be according to training mode?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Are we sure fair > fair is a true combo? Doesn't seem to be according to training mode?

Percent based. At mid percents its always a combo, low percents a frame trap at best, high percents they go too far.

 

[SuperSmashCam]

https://gfycat.com/BlackandwhiteGargantuanIsabellinewheatear

VERY reliable when you roll your thumb...

MAKE A VIDEO ABOUT THIS PLEASE!!!

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Percent based. At mid percents its always a combo, low percents a frame trap at best, high percents they go too far.

Thanks. Just to be sure, it's short hop fair > short hop fair right? Or does the combo happen in the air?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Landing fair > Fullhop fair > Double jump fair
SH fair to DJ fair also works

not sure if SH fair to sh fair is a combo though. Haven't tried.

 

[Deleted member]

MAKE A VIDEO ABOUT THIS PLEASE!!!

Once I have enough info (still figuring things out myself), I will put out a Tech/Guide video with other content as well.
(Combos, Tidbits, etc)

 

[OceloT42]

Is upB reversible? I just seen to rocket straight up.
Also the shot from DFS alone is deadly.I thought you would have to rely on the bite for kill but it turns out the fully charged shot kills as well.
Minor detail, but I really love the voice of female Corrin. It's not seductive or anything, just strong and joyful.

 

[Icedmana]

Is upB reversible? I just seen to rocket straight up.

It is, you need to be quick. Don't know what part of the animation you have to have the input in by though.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Landing fair > Fullhop fair > Double jump fair
SH fair to DJ fair also works

not sure if SH fair to sh fair is a combo though. Haven't tried.

SH fair doesn't seem to work now that I've found out I needed to full hop. How often can you guys get the combo to be counted in training mode? I can chain the fh fair to double jump fair usually as a true combo but the falling fair to FH fair rarely show as a true combo. Should I fast fall or start the first fair at a certain distance?

 

[JediLink]

I was practicing some turnaround instant pins, and a couple of times I got a turnaround Neutral B instead. I don't play Smash 4 that often; is this a well-known tech? Being able to instantly turn around and neutral B while running? And if so, how do you do it consistently?

 

[Reizilla]

I was practicing some turnaround instant pins, and a couple of times I got a turnaround Neutral B instead. I don't play Smash 4 that often; is this a well-known tech? Being able to instantly turn around and neutral B while running? And if so, how do you do it consistently?

It's a fairly well-known tech called B Reverse. Simply input the opposite direction within a few frames after pressing B.

Here's a vid explaining it pretty well.

 

[Wiley]

Just a simple execution for an almost instant side-special pin. reversing this makes for seriously dangerous spacing options. When I first started hitting side b I'd wait a bit and then pierce when my arc was low enough to make contact for the pin. But swiping your finger from special into your "A" button can do it seemingly the moment it's pressed and you skip the arc.

 

[Raziek]

Just a simple execution for an almost instant side-special pin. reversing this makes for seriously dangerous spacing options. When I first started hitting side b I'd wait a bit and then pierce when my arc was low enough to make contact for the pin. But swiping your finger from special into your "A" button can do it seemingly the moment it's pressed and you skip the arc.

This is known, and does not warrant its own thread.

Merging to Gameplay thread.

 

[Eureka]

So let's say I hit someone with a charged DFS but they're not at kill percent. What's the optimal damage follow up? Is it fair strings? Footstool shinanigans? Dragon Lunge combos?