Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[Cypher99]

How do you go from being above average to winning tournaments? How do you get better at smash bros?

 

[Drippy]

edit: dont need it anymore

 

[ChaosFalcon]

Are there such things as beginner tournament? I'm not bad nor am I super amazing.

 

[Pazx]

Are there such things as beginner tournament? I'm not bad nor am I super amazing.

You have to check what your local scene does. The better tournaments will run RR or Swiss for the first stage of the tournament followed by a double elimination bracket, ensuring that even if you lose everything you'll get at least a few sets in. Many tournaments run an "amateur bracket" which takes all the players who didn't make it into the top 4/8/16/32 and places them in a bracket of their own to gather more tournament experience. Encourage your TOs to run amateur brackets! We ran one on Sunday for the first time and it was well received and easy to manage, the only requirement is a larger number of setups. A semi-popular (melee) tournament style is known as Arcadian, where players who have ever been power ranked (eg best 10ish in a region) are not allowed to enter, so the overall skill level is lower and unknown players get their time to shine. These aren't small tournaments, they get numbers around 130 unranked players.

 

[ChaosFalcon]

Thanks, for now I guess I'll just look into what I've got in area.

 

[Shadow64]

I lurked around the forums and couldn't find a thread that listed the best DI when being grabbed to avoid a follow-up at low, medium or high percentages.

For example, what's the best DI for the player to input at low or high percentages to avoid Fair strings or other followups when down grabbed by Ness?. Or, what's the best DI for Captain Falcon's down grab, Luigi's, MG&W's, and any other characters who can rack up some percentage, or even kills, by using grab followups depending on what percent range you are.

We've all been on the nasty side of a Luigi Fair string or a ZSS grab that leads to an UP B at kill percent at some point and wondering what to do to get out of it. Maybe people who main a specific character can tell us what DI gives them the hardest time connecting a follow-up, or what DI downright prevents a followup?

 

[Supersmashbrothers.]

I've been playing Smash for years now. And one of my online friends (who I know this is his first Smash game) keeps running away.

To explain a bit more here's his "Strategy" which is really simple and I feel ashamed that I have to ask for help.

He starts off by standing at the edge of the stage or a bit far away from me. If I wait he comes at me, I main ZSS so I use the Down B to escape and It works. But I'm only feeding his strategy more. And I was wondering If there was a good counter for that.
If he doesn't stall he attacks and attacks until eventually he KOs me. By that time I already have him at kill percentage. But at that time there is always like 30 seconds left. Plenty for a KO, but he keeps running away and It gets pretty annoying.

Maybe If I finally show him that running away is Ineffective he would stop it. It's really getting unbearable.

 

[RIP_Lucas]

No attack is risk free, just learn his attack patterns, figure out the appropriate counter, and punish.

Shield grabbing is something that works a lot, start with that.

It really doesn't sound like this guy is a true all out staller. If he attempts an approach, he's putting himself at risk and any time he hits you, it's because you had a hole in your defense.

Running away is a pretty simple way to reset the game to neutral. I don't recommend doing it much because the best way to rack up damage is to exploit advantageous positions, which by definition don't occur in the neutral, but that in itself is not a bad play. A boring one for sure, but it is competitive is some situations.

Maybe try posting some videos, it's hard to tell exactly what you mean from the description.

 

[cardboardowl]

it changes depending on %, and character so there is no clear answer

 

[digiholic]

If he's backed himself into a corner, then he's only got one direction he can go, and that's towards you. Advance on him safely and keep him pressured. If he tries to roll past you, punish it. If he stays there and shields, grab him. If he uses an attack, use a better one.

 

[digiholic]

There's not really an optimal DI, since there's so many variables. In general, if the throw pops you diagonally, DI downward so they overshoot you with the short hop. If the throw pops you forward, DI away so they can't close the cap fast enough. If it pops you upward, DI to the side depending on whether it's safer to be in front of them or behind.

 

[Storm Erion]

I've been trying to improve my Link gameplay for a while now, but as I'm playing I'm noticing the same issue I've been having since day 1, with any character I'm using really. I'm really bad at handling pressure. No matter who I'm playing as (i'm mostly using Link though), I end up crumbling under pressure. I can't seem to get people off of me when they're close to me.

I'm trying to use my projectiles to the fullest, making walls, getting a combo off of them, etc, but once they get in, i'm done for. If it's a player that knows what they're doing, they'll destroy me because I don't know how to handle pressure at all. It's really disheartening, especially because I really want to become a good competitive player, and Link is by far my favorite character.

Does anyone have any advice for dealing with pressure? Like I said, I'm mostly playing as Link, but even as other characters I have the same issue, I lose control, I flop and I can't get that control back. I try to use things like zair and nair to help out, but I guess I'm not using them correctly.

 

[Grass]

Guy's i am in need of really bad help that involes speed.

have you tried sanic?

I just seem to be really slow at the game and it's driving me insane i try to be fast with the controller but my accuracy (at least mostly) just seems to be really bad. I kinda miss alot and my opponent always hits me faster and moves quicker than me?

Help.

Work on reaction time. that's all I can tell you. About 60% of this game is reaction time.

 

[Ulevo]

I've been trying to improve my Link gameplay for a while now, but as I'm playing I'm noticing the same issue I've been having since day 1, with any character I'm using really. I'm really bad at handling pressure. No matter who I'm playing as (i'm mostly using Link though), I end up crumbling under pressure. I can't seem to get people off of me when they're close to me.

I'm trying to use my projectiles to the fullest, making walls, getting a combo off of them, etc, but once they get in, i'm done for. If it's a player that knows what they're doing, they'll destroy me because I don't know how to handle pressure at all. It's really disheartening, especially because I really want to become a good competitive player, and Link is by far my favorite character.

Does anyone have any advice for dealing with pressure? Like I said, I'm mostly playing as Link, but even as other characters I have the same issue, I lose control, I flop and I can't get that control back. I try to use things like zair and nair to help out, but I guess I'm not using them correctly.

The first step is to avoid pressure. I'm a Lucario main, and I regularly play against a Captain Falcon, who is a pressure oriented character with an advantage against Lucario. I have methods to deal with Captain Falcon once he gets inside my space or zone, but there are tools I use with Lucario to attempt to keep him out before resorting to that.

My advice on this front would be to learn how to abuse Link's walking shield (his actual shield, not the bubble shield, look up Izaw's latest guide), his jab, his bombs, and his zair to zone people. This is general advice. But SWU is a very match up dependent game, and so you will need to learn match ups properly to know how to zone and ward off individual characters, so I can't give proper advice here that will apply to everything.

The second step is to learn your defensive options. I recommend learning your out of shield options, and how to use them. So for Link, this would be short hop nair out of shield, and short hop back air out of shield. These are safer than shield grabs because you're less open to being punished if they wiff and they keep you mobile while also exerting offensive pressure. From here, learn his frame data, and understand what your fast moves are in close quarters. I don't play Link, but I'd assume that down smash and up tilt, especially out of a spot dodge, are relatively good options.

This is just starting info.

 

[BlueX]

I am back. I am kinda stuck right now i don't seem to be getting any better kind of.

So i have made some questions on some things that i hope to improve on.

1. What is DI?

2. I am not really the best with combos so does anyone have any ideas to make combos?

3. I know this was already answered but i still don't quite get it. How do i get auto-canceling working? Do i need to do anything?

4. I have a friend who has beaten me many times i asked for advice from him and he said i am too predictable how can i work on that?

Also i am planning to play on FG (For Glory) mode but what should i do to get better at the game to win at FG?

 

[Grass]

I am back. I am kinda stuck right now i don't seem to be getting any better kind of.

So i have made some questions on some things that i hope to improve on.

1. What is DI?

2. I am not really the best with combos so does anyone have any ideas to make combos?

3. I know this was already answered but i still don't quite get it. How do i get auto-canceling working? Do i need to do anything?

4. I have a friend who has beaten me many times i asked for advice from him and he said i am too predictable how can i work on that?

Also i am planning to play on FG (For Glory) mode but what should i do to get better at the game to win at FG?

1. DI is directional influence. Read about it here.
2. There are no true combos in this game. GG. But you can condition people to DI where you want them to and make it seem like a true combo.
   
3. How about you don't roll everywhere? Start there. What he's saying is that you're really easily read. You need to work on doing "unconventional things" aka mind games.
4. Oh oops, 3 and 4 are switched. My b. I'll answer 3 here. Auto cancelling is just doing an attack into the ground and the ground will auto cancel the rest of an animation for you.

Don't play FG, you scrub.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

I tend to get grabbed a lot in most of my games.
I really suck at spacing Bowser Jr.'s attacks to be safe on shield, if possible. Regardless, I just lose patience a lot during a match and charge at my opponent with my kart dash, and I usually run into either a grab, an aerial, or even an Fsmash.
Other times when I sit back and don't go aggressively, usually my opponent just rolls behind me and grabs me... I know it's happening but I'm too slow to punish it..
What do I do? It's super frustrating especially on Anther's Ladder to lose matches even though you know exactly what had to be done....

 

[Noso]

I play Link, T.link and Sheik, and it feels like I'm being danced around. Can anyone give me any perspective on this.

Example; This morning while I won the battle, I was fighting a sonic with my link in FG, and he would constantly run past me and d.tilt me off the stage, i wouldn't have have thought anything of it if it were just two or three times, but it became very notice able when he started flaunting it even while i was off the ledge.

Also, I know it's going to sound petty but it's rather important to me, is there a mind set i'm missing for this game to rack up higher w/l% in FG, I don't like being cheesy in games But it's just bothering me that i'm at 55% trying my damnedest to make it improve.

 

[HeroMystic]

1. There are no true combos in this game. GG. But you can condition people to DI where you want them to and make it seem like a true combo.

I was hoping someone would address this but this is obviously false. There are true combos in this game. There were even true combos in Brawl.

 

[KittyKyat]

I've been playing for a while, have over 1000+ games under my belt, over 50% winrate on FG, but I'm having issues. You see, I've been practicing in training mode, trying Smashladder, and fighting people on the forums, but I feel like I'm not improving. I feel like I'm getting worse, and losing more and more. It really doesn't help that I'm just getting really frustrated over it, but I gotta figure it out.

What can I do to keep my morale higher, not give up, and not get frustrated over my losses and lack of improvement, aside from just taking a break?

 

[Grass]

I was hoping someone would address this but this is obviously false. There are true combos in this game. There were even true combos in Brawl.

when I said true combos i meant combos like melee true combos. Also I feel the definition of "true combo" has changed over the years to be a poor representation of a "true" combo.

 

[Jaxas]

when I said true combos i meant combos like melee true combos. Also I feel the definition of "true combo" has changed over the years to be a poor representation of a "true" combo.

A true combo is when you hit your opponent, then hit them again while they're still in hitstun. They have absolutely no chance to dodge/retaliate because of this, which is why that's important.

It's that simple, and no it's definition hasn't changed at all; people just say "combo" when they mean "string" sometimes.

 

[Grass]

A true combo is when you hit your opponent, then hit them again while they're still in hitstun. They have absolutely no chance to dodge/retaliate because of this, which is why that's important.

It's that simple, and no it's definition hasn't changed at all; people just say "combo" when they mean "string" sometimes.

It is important to differentiate the difference between a "string" and a "combo". At least that's how I feel.

 

[Pazx]

It is important to differentiate the difference between a "string" and a "combo". At least that's how I feel.

You've said this game has no true combos, it would appear you don't know what the terms mean yourself.

 

[Grass]

You've said this game has no true combos, it would appear you don't know what the terms mean yourself.

The fact that you feel the need to insult me shows your lack of ability to counteract a statement in a basic discussion. Also since the mod in here approved your comment as well, I would assume that he/she approves of insults as well. Before you retort, let me make this very clear. If you cannot tell the difference between an insult to another member and the moderator can't tell either, then I can safely exit this thread without a care.

 

[HeroMystic]

The fact that you feel the need to insult me shows your lack of ability to counteract a statement in a basic discussion. Also since the mod in here approved your comment as well, I would assume that he/she approves of insults as well. Before you retort, let me make this very clear. If you cannot tell the difference between an insult to another member and the moderator can't tell either, then I can safely exit this thread without a care.

For future reference, I don't have any mod authority in this section. That said, if you feel the post should be infracted, report it.

 

[Turtlicious]

I play Rosaluma a lot trying to get a lot better for the sunday night tournaments at my job, one of the biggest issues if I have a hard time punishing fast in your face characters like Little Mac, Captain Falco, Zero Suit, and Sheik. I'm in this weird pseudo-state where I don't want to approach or I'll get them in the air but my whiff my Nair. Is there any tricks to punishing these guys (C. Falco in particular he is a pain to fight as Rosaluma.)

Is there a trick to throwing out the Nair when fighting? Furthermore how do you turn around and jump backwards while dashing?

 

[LiL.Will]

Probably a weird question but from playing WiiU alot and trying to convert back to the 3DS I had a hard time using my main due to the amount AT's I use are there any characters that are "3DS friendly" in learning?

 

[Nickname87]

What makes a good approach?

 

[TrollheartBlue]

What makes a good approach?

A good approach is minimally punished. I know that's not a super descriptive definition, but that's essentially it.

 

[Noso]

What makes a good approach?

find out which if any of your moves are safe on shields, also mind games and psyche outs are great ways to open an enemy up.

 

[roygbiv91]

I'm feeling very frustrated. I can't punish sidestepping and rolling only to a decent amount. My friend just shuts 99 % of my approaches down by sidestepping + smash. Especially the Smashes from Rosalina, Luigi and Mario feel so fast and almost unpunishable.

I just can't break defense and i came to the point where i don't improve anymore and it feels just frustrating. My friend just spotdodges and down smashes with Rosalina and he blocks every approach even with Sheik with this.

Any hints?

 

[Nickname87]

I'm feeling very frustrated. I can't punish sidestepping and rolling only to a decent amount. My friend just shuts 99 % of my approaches down by sidestepping + smash. Especially the Smashes from Rosalina, Luigi and Mario feel so fast and almost unpunishable.

I just can't break defense and i came to the point where i don't improve anymore and it feels just frustrating. My friend just spotdodges and down smashes with Rosalina and he blocks every approach even with Sheik with this.

Any hints?

maybe try mxing up your approach by just running up and sheilding or grabbing or force him/her approach you and punish like he/she does.

 

[Noso]

I'm feeling very frustrated. I can't punish sidestepping and rolling only to a decent amount. My friend just shuts 99 % of my approaches down by sidestepping + smash. Especially the Smashes from Rosalina, Luigi and Mario feel so fast and almost unpunishable.

I just can't break defense and i came to the point where i don't improve anymore and it feels just frustrating. My friend just spotdodges and down smashes with Rosalina and he blocks every approach even with Sheik with this.

Any hints?

if he has a tendency to roll behind you, do a move that hits in both directions as he's coming out of roll animation. also, speed becomes a non issue once you become able to read your opponent and know what they're going to do.

 

[Asian_Charizard]

Hi, this is my 1st time posting in this thread.

Yesterday I had a online battle with a random user here who used Link. All he do is spam projectiles and would roll away every time when I got close. I saw no use of tilts, rarely aerials, and Jabs, he would occasionally grab and smash when I was at high %, but that's it. I've tried punish his rolls by Shulk's D smash, but it usually got me punished myself due to the endlag. I desperately need help dealing this type of player.

 

[Zodiacx10]

I'm trying to get better but I can't

I got this around Christmas and i thought it was pretty fun. but now everyone is just so good that i get my ass handed to me by just about everyone all the time all day.

So I thought i would take steps to improve ya'know? i Watched matches online, i watched video guides, i read guides, i got a smashboards account so i could look though posts and ask questions, i asked for mentor help on smashboards, i joined 2 smash skype groups so i could play with really good people and they might help me out. i play for hours every single day since i got the game and guess what? i'm still terrible. i must play like over 100 matches with people from my skype group and on for glory everyday and i win maybe like 2 or 3 times a day, no joke. now im usually a good sport and im fine with losing here and there...but it gets to you after a while when you do all these things to improve and you get destroyed over and over again every single day by everyone you face off against. like even if i won like 1/10 matches i would be fine but like 1/50...idk...just demoralizing. i mean i know people in the sykpe group are really good, but even on for glory i get owned constantly.

now im know that some of you are going to say things like
"you have to condition your opponent/make smart reads"
"know your characters abilities/playstyle and combos and follow-ups"
"don't do the same thing every time as it become predictable, try to mix things up to keep your opponent on your toes"
"you just gotta practice man"

and i try to do those things but in the heat of the battle i just dont have enough time to be thinking about all those things at once, i guess my reflexes just are not that good. maybe if i played more i would get better at that but...i dont think it will be that easy.

anyway i really am trying my best to get better at this game but it gets harder and harder for me to even want to play because the game isnt fun for me its just becomes super stressful and makes me upset all the time.

that is all, sorry for the long post

 

[Spirst]

@ Zodiacx10 I've merged your post with the Gameplay Advice thread where it is better suited. Just a heads up.

 

[KittyKyat]

I'm trying to get better but I can't

I got this around Christmas and i thought it was pretty fun. but now everyone is just so good that i get my *** handed to me by just about everyone all the time all day.

So I thought i would take steps to improve ya'know? i Watched matches online, i watched video guides, i read guides, i got a smashboards account so i could look though posts and ask questions, i asked for mentor help on smashboards, i joined 2 smash skype groups so i could play with really good people and they might help me out. i play for hours every single day since i got the game and guess what? i'm still terrible. i must play like over 100 matches with people from my skype group and on for glory everyday and i win maybe like 2 or 3 times a day, no joke. now im usually a good sport and im fine with losing here and there...but it gets to you after a while when you do all these things to improve and you get destroyed over and over again every single day by everyone you face off against. like even if i won like 1/10 matches i would be fine but like 1/50...idk...just demoralizing. i mean i know people in the sykpe group are really good, but even on for glory i get owned constantly.

now im know that some of you are going to say things like
"you have to condition your opponent/make smart reads"
"know your characters abilities/playstyle and combos and follow-ups"
"don't do the same thing every time as it become predictable, try to mix things up to keep your opponent on your toes"
"you just gotta practice man"

and i try to do those things but in the heat of the battle i just dont have enough time to be thinking about all those things at once, i guess my reflexes just are not that good. maybe if i played more i would get better at that but...i dont think it will be that easy.

anyway i really am trying my best to get better at this game but it gets harder and harder for me to even want to play because the game isnt fun for me its just becomes super stressful and makes me upset all the time.

that is all, sorry for the long post

Firstly, take a break. I have this issue too but I think a break is what you need. Sure you might wanna play, so try to play singleplayer or friendlies, mess around and have fun. After that, save matches that are close or a terrible loss and watch over them. See what you could be doing wrong.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Hi, this is my 1st time posting in this thread.

Yesterday I had a online battle with a random user here who used Link. All he do is spam projectiles and would roll away every time when I got close. I saw no use of tilts, rarely aerials, and Jabs, he would occasionally grab and smash when I was at high %, but that's it. I've tried punish his rolls by Shulk's D smash, but it usually got me punished myself due to the endlag. I desperately need help dealing this type of player.

Online will make everything harder due to lag. First of all, recognize that playing online will make everything I'm about to suggest a lot harder than it would be offline.

I don't know if you have customs on or off. The main difference it would make to you as a Shulk player for dealing with this is that Power Vision is a really incredible move. When I refer to countering stuff, just realize the reward is greatly enhanced if you have Power Vision selected as opposed to default.

First of all, you should be able to quickly recognize against such an opponent that he'll consistently run away. Start by doing two basic things (with any character):

1. Gain control of the center of the stage. If you simply move (and shield as needed) to the middle of the stage, an opponent like this will almost always retreat to one of the edges. This gives you a very advantaged position.
2. Figure out his basic pattern of attack. As a Link, does he mostly spam Bombs, Boomerangs, or Arrows? Does he use them in a specific sequence? Even just seeing a few reps of his spamming, you'll probably be able to quickly figure out a lot about what he's going to do in the future.

As Shulk, your next step is to decide which Monado arte you want up as you make your approach. Your goal is to pin him against the back edge of the stage and to use his lack of mobility options to force him to make bad guesses and get hit. If you are confident you understand his pattern, use Buster for the damage. If you are less confident, use Speed to make the approach itself easier. If you use Extreme Artes this will be harder, but if you use either default or Decisive it should be simple enough.

From here, it's time to execute the plan. Advance toward him and use Shulk's range to make it dangerous for him to roll toward you (that is, don't get "too close"). Let him keep throwing projectiles, just block them, and guide him toward a retreat to the very edge (if he tries to stand in place and throw stuff, you can probably challenge it with a safe, well spaced nair). From here you have a really basic mix-up. If he keeps attacking, rolls into the edge, or spotdodges, jab him. If he blocks, grab him. He's probably not very confident punishing jabs on shield if you don't do jab3 (especially with Link's slow grab); if you get a jab blocked just don't finish the combo. Eventually (or perhaps immediately) he'll roll toward you. While Shulk's down smash is indeed a great option if you read this, with online lag making everything awful and the fact that it carries risk you might want to keep it really simple. Just turn around, grab him, and chuck him right back to the edge. Once he's off-stage, just cover all of his options to get back up onto the stage; your goal is to keep hitting him and keep forcing him to the edges of the stage where his options are limited. Keep up this super simple pressure until you get him to around 80% (or more if you can easily!). Go into Monado Smash at your earliest convenience and kill him via whatever safe means you can find (as you keep doing this stuff, he'll get more and more predictable to you and you should find a window to hit with something that will kill and eventually near the edge forward throw or jab3 will kill so don't rush it). Be on the lookout for him to get desperate and make bad attacks as well; your counter is definitely one of your strongly viable kill options.

Once you have a stock lead, it's time to crush him. His whole strategy is passive. Retreat to the center of the stage and throw up Monado Shield. Just focus on not getting hit by his attacks and punishing him for doing anything unsafe (again, mostly rely on jabs and grabs though do keep in mind Shield powers up your counter if he's getting predictable). If you do get hit, since you're at center stage and Monado Shield Shulk is way heavier than Bowser, you won't die. When Shield runs out if you are using default artes, plug the gap with Speed or Jump (depending on stage) to just stall while you wait for Shield to come back up. If you are using Decisive I suggest against using an arte until Shield is ready again. If you are using Extreme, you are on your own. Just whittle away at his health and don't let him kill you, and he'll either make enough bad attacks to lose his second stock (and thus the game) or you'll time him out. Either way, it should be a solid win for you.

 

[Eonn]

How do you be unpredictable? I use jiggs who seems to have limited options for approaching, so I'm stuck with short hop aerials and sometimes a throw or dash. However the short hops are very predictable and easy to counter, and dash attacking/throwing usually doesn't work well.

Also, how do you cope with input lag in FG? I feel like I'm unable to punish a fair amount of moves simply because the delay prevents my character from attacking until the opponent is able to shield or roll again.

Finally, how do you deal with opponents who constantly roll everywhere and occasionally use throws, jabs, smash attacks, etc?

Thanks! :D