Game Mechanics and Controls

[Diversity]

EDIT
This thread began discussing "b-tilts" and expanded to other things that characters could potentially use. My original post is below:

In the very first Smash game, we were introduced to the general mechanics of the franchise. You have jump, special, and attack commands at your disposal. With the attack commands, you could influence what they did greatly depending on what you did with the analog stick. You had jabs, tilts and smashes.

In Melee you could so smash-B moves generating a different move that your character would perform.

Now in Smash 4, what if you had the ability to do tilts on the ground with the B-button the same way that you do them with the A-button? I think it would add some much welcomed depth to the fighting system, yet still keep the overall mechanics very simple.

 

[Kink-Link5]

This is already a mechanic with specific moves- Nearly every if not every side B projectile has two variations of throw force, and some movement side-B's, such as R.O.B.'s, do this as well.

It should remain a mechanic for specific moves only.

Also B-tilt sounds like backwards tilt which is just silly in its own ways.

 

[Diversity]

Well clearly some mechanics for certain characters would have to be changed for it to be implemented. In Smash 64, you had WAY more control over Link's boomerang because whatever was done with the analogue stick influenced the boomerang's movement. Clearly the implementation of Smash-B added something. Why not B-tilts?

Also, if it did happen it would look like everyone would have to start saying backwards tilt instead of b-tilt. But that clearly wouldn't be worth it so better just ignore my suggestion all together...

 

[DarkSouls]

For a moment, I thought you were talking about back tilts... Which is actually something I want to see in the next Smash game, since back tilts, smashes, and specials would expand characters' movesets.

Special tilts don't really work because they'd benefit some characters more than others. For example, Samus already has different versions of her side special for tilts and smashes; unless you found another way to differentiate between missiles and super missiles, she wouldn't receive anything new.

 

[gothrax]

For a moment, I thought you were talking about back tilts... Which is actually something I want to see in the next Smash game, since back tilts, smashes, and specials would expand characters' movesets.

Special tilts don't really work because they'd benefit some characters more than others. For example, Samus already has different versions of her side special for tilts and smashes; unless you found another way to differentiate between missiles and super missiles, she wouldn't receive anything new.

....... i second everything you just said?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Having a backwards tilt makes sense, but a backwards SMASH and a backwards SPECIAL? Now that is just getting odd.. Backwards moves give me the feeling that its kind of like a flick to the back to defend yourself. So revving it up to full-blown attacks directed behind you or using special moves behind you seems just... odd.

As for the actual topic, I'm not sure, I suppose it would be welcomed. Give multiple recovery options perhaps, and any moves that couldn't have been added to characters could then be implemented.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Isn't the entire concept of backward tilts completely negated by the fact that you can just instantly turn around on the ground and use forward tilt? Like, if you could turn around in the air no one would give any thought to the idea of backward aerials.

 

[gothrax]

Isn't the entire concept of backward tilts completely negated by the fact that you can just instantly turn around on the ground and use forward tilt? Like, if you could turn around in the air no one would give any thought to the idea of backward aerials.

I'm sure there are ways to do it :/
like maybe if you buffer an attack backwards before the last anim ends?
Or perhaps you dont turn around instantly anymore? Maybe you get like two steps of walking backward then turn??

 

[infiniteV115]

Aerial tilts are a possibility. Though it'd be weird cause you'd have 9 aerials; 4 tilts, 4 smashes, 1 nair.
Charged aerials? Charged grounded tilts?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Doing a Back-air can offer a different method of attacking, and can be faster than turning around and then doing a forward-air, so no, I don't think the idea becomes obsolete. The same logic can be applied while on the ground.

 

[DarkSouls]

Having a backwards tilt makes sense, but a backwards SMASH and a backwards SPECIAL? Now that is just getting odd.. Backwards moves give me the feeling that its kind of like a flick to the back to defend yourself. So revving it up to full-blown attacks directed behind you or using special moves behind you seems just... odd.

I was thinking it could also be used for forwards attacks that don't move the character forwards.

So for example, Samus' missiles would be changed to a back special (While she might get a new forwards special in the Speed Boost), while Fox's Fox Phantom would stay a forward special.

Isn't the entire concept of backward tilts completely negated by the fact that you can just instantly turn around on the ground and use forward tilt? Like, if you could turn around in the air no one would give any thought to the idea of backward aerials.

I think the idea would be adding a different move with a different purpose, giving characters new options on the ground. Same with a backwards smash.

However, some characters already have tilts that cover the majority of their needs, so maybe this is all just pointless.

 

[Vinylic.]

B-tilts is a bad idea. And it sounds complicated.

 

[gothrax]

B-tilts is a bad idea. And it sounds complicated.

Hay it was diversity's idea

 

[Kink-Link5]

Charged aerials? Charged grounded tilts?

Charging some specific aerials could prove useful, especially if it doesn't alter the move's end lag. Ike's fair comes to mind as particularly notable in this regard.


It does take away the value of several specials that seem to exist specifically to give a charging option from though.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I think back moves should be exclusive to the air. The air is the only place where it's not easy to turn around, so It's the only place where you would need a move that could be done w/o changing direction. Also, I feel it might be too difficult to pull off consistently, I can see people accidentally turning around before they did a Back tilt or Smash.

Not sure how I feel about being able to charge Aerials. Gonna have to think about that.

Also: off-topic, but I'd like to see the C-stick be able to perform Smashes and tilts. Like you would Smash the C-stick to do a smash, and tilt it to do a tilt. Just like you'd do with the regular analog stick.

Edit: At this point the title of this thread should be changed to "New Move Types" or something IMHO.

 

[DarkSouls]

Also: off-topic, but I'd like to see the C-stick be able to perform Smashes and tilts. Like you would Smash the C-stick to do a smash, and tilt it to do a tilt. Just like you'd do with the regular analog stick.

Can't you already use the C-stick to perform tilts by pressing A when you move it?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I could see tilting for a different variant on a B move to be interesting while keeping the simplicity people want the smash series to have.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Can't you already use the C-stick to perform tilts by pressing A when you move it?

Um..no. No you can't. You can use the c-stick A/Z to charge smashes, but that's all.

 

[Claire Diviner]

People keep mentioning side B tilts, but what about Up and Down B. To my knowledge, no character has Up or Down B moves that are affected by how the analogue stick is tilted. It can make for an interesting concept, but it can also make the game potentially unnecessarily confusing.

 

[DarkSouls]

People keep mentioning side B tilts, but what about Up and Down B. To my knowledge, no character has Up or Down B moves that are affected by how the analogue stick is tilted. It can make for an interesting concept, but it can also make the game potentially unnecessarily confusing.

Up-B doesn't seem like such a good idea, since it's connected to recovery, and it sucks to do a move other than the recovery move you wanted to do.

Down-B is better, since it's generally connected to a non-recovery move (Shut up Mario!).

I think another option is pressing B and another button for another special. For example, B and Z, or B and A.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

We don't need more moves until Nintendo actually makes every move that is already in the game useful.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

That is kinda hard sometimes when what may be useful from a design standpoint may not play out like they want it to.

 

[Diversity]

Can't you already use the C-stick to perform tilts by pressing A when you move it?

I always thought that making use of the C-stick for wave-dashing would be its best use. Or perhaps the other two buttons by the triggers would be a better solution.

The actual buttons (not the triggers) would be used for wave-dashing while the triggers would remain shield and grab triggers.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In Brawl, it seems that everyone has a reverse grab in their list of animations. However, what's the point of having a reverse grab if most of the characters have poor dash grabs?!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm not seeing why having a bad dash grab would impact a character's pivot-grab at all

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm not seeing why having a bad dash grab would impact a character's pivot-grab at all

Is that what a reverse grab is referred to as? I've never seen it be performed before in-game.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's very common, lol, do you play competitive Brawl?

Oh and to answer your question, pivot grabs have more range and less lag than dash-grabs most of the time.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's very common, lol, do you play competitive Brawl?

Oh and to answer your question, pivot grabs have more range and less lag than dash-grabs most of the time.

Apparently not, but I've often wondered why everyone has a reverse grab in Brawl.