Future Charizard buffs that you want/nerfs that you fear

[Darthrai]

What could happen to Charizard in future patches that would either make you rejoice or make you cringe?

For me:

Buffs:
-Less landing lag on aerials.
-Less endlag on down smash.
-Seismic Toss is buffed to be similar to its Project M incarnation, although a "Charicide" would kill Charizard first (to avoid cheap KOs, note that unlike with Bowsercide the opponent wouldn't be able to control the direction).
-Flare Blitz only does self-damage if it connects with an opponent and deals damage to them. Just using the attack out of the blue doesn't cause self-damage, and hitting a wall will only cause recoil.
-More of Charizard's attacks have "fire" effects, like in Project M (which may or may not do more damage).
-Mega Charizard X's spinning attack is harder to avoid, and acts like a buffed Flare Blitz/Dragon Rush.

Nerfs:
-Flare Blitz's super armor is removed (like we all feared for 1.0.4).
-Any of Charizard's attacks have increased lag and/or damage.
-Jabs have added lag in a way that prevents Charizard from using A->A->Up+B.

 

[Rashid]

Make Rock Smash's... pebbles? Shards? Whatever people call them, make them consistent and not random.

 

[JJBro1]

No more moving backwards from using flamethrower. Less lag on everything (seriously!) and improved hitbox on his tail's flame during a nair.

 

[-LzR-]

Jab and Nair not being unsafe on hit sometimes.

 

[Whookie]

I hope they fix up smash's hitbox when the enemy is behind you. When the enemy is in front, both wings tend to connect. When the enemy is behind a certain distance from you, only the first hit (the wing farther from the enemy) hits and the 2nd attack (the wing closer to the enemy) misses. It sucks because the 2nd hit is the one that causes knockback.

Also, giving up tilt some more horizontal distance would be sweet.

 

[Shog]

Flamethrower should allow you to move (slowly!) forwards.
Make Up Air less laggy

 

[Burruni]

Make Rock Smash in any way viable over F-air, F-tilt, F-Smash or Flare Blitz. I just feel like the move has almost no purpose anymore.

 

[-LzR-]

Make Rock Smash in any way viable over F-air, F-tilt, F-Smash or Flare Blitz. I just feel like the move has almost no purpose anymore.

Rock Smash is one of our most important moves. Way more important than Fsmash or Flare Blitz. A move with a huge amount of super armor and doing 30% and can kill? What else could you possible ask for?

 

[SuperLuigi9624]

I just want him to go faster and jump higher. Maybe I'm just biased because in Smash Bros, Charizard is a bulky but hard hitter, but in the real Pokémon games, Charizard is really frail but he's fast. It just doesn't add up.

Buffs:
Make him faster.

Nerfs:
Make him a little lighter. I'd actually be okay with it.

 

[Burruni]

Rock Smash is one of our most important moves. Way more important than Fsmash or Flare Blitz. A move with a huge amount of super armor and doing 30% and can kill? What else could you possible ask for?

I'll admit. I'm not that profficient at Charizard. Pardon for my ignorance. I had no idea about the super armor on it, just the starting time that makes it a very niche move for connection. I retract my point.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Make Rock Smash in any way viable over F-air, F-tilt, F-Smash or Flare Blitz. I just feel like the move has almost no purpose anymore.

Wait.
Charizard has moves better then Rock Smash?
Not to me he doesn't. I use rock smash several times more then Flare blitz.

 

[-LzR-]

I'll admit. I'm not that profficient at Charizard. Pardon for my ignorance. I had no idea about the super armor on it, just the starting time that makes it a very niche move for connection. I retract my point.

That's understandable. It took me a while to learn to appreciate it too. At first I didn't know about the armor and I just notice it no longer does 50%+ damage. Then I realized the move is just amazing now.

 

[Davregis]

As amazing as it is, I was hoping (just a little!) for 5 jumps, and also for a fix on Uair's hitbox, which lacks any sort of horizontal range.

I was scared of the Blitz nerf, but didn't think they'd dare nerf a perceived low-tier.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

Up throw being a legit kill move would be cool. Id be willing to give up the uthrow to fair combo for it. Down throw isn't really much of a kill throw, and i kill with bthrow more.

 

[Jaml655]

I agree that the aerials have some surprisingly bad landing lag, except for the Bair because it's pretty fierce.
Buffs:
-Way more profit from current jumps or more jumps with current height gain.
-It's side smash looks like it deserves super armor, otherwise the only other direction I can see it going is being nerfed.
-It's aerials could use slightly better start up time, since it is a flying pokemon. Also, give or take, I think it's Nair should be sped up a bit so it can be used defensively when making your way back on the ground when near opponents.
-I don't know why seismic toss isn't one of it's top 5 most powerful moves, but it needs to be. I'd say increase to the damage(9% to 15% probably) and definitely knockback, I hope it's not too unreasonable.
-Better connection on up smash
-Up Special should have a 10% height increase

Nerfs:
-It's jabs should do a little less damage
That's all I got on nerfs

 

[Knee Smasher]

I'd only like to see two changes to Charizard:

1. It should be able to tech upon hitting the ground after crashing into something with Flare Blitz.
2. Uthrow should deal more damage than Fthrow and Bthrow, since for such a cool-looking move, I can pretty much see no use at all for Uthrow at the moment.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Seismic Toss needs to be a kill throw.

That is all.

But having Bair autocancel would be pretty nice.

 

[-LzR-]

I want a fair that you could SHFF while autocanceling. I don't see any reason why it's so slow right now. It's kinda weak, limited follow ups and the hitbox whiffs on many grounded opponents.

 

[RadianB]

They need to make his tail tip moves do more damage and knock back. It's so hard to hit with it and they're so weak. That or make his forward tilt come out faster.

Also give a use to his up throw because it's useless atm.

 

[Cornstalk]

Buffs he could really benefit from without drastically changing the character:

• Faster horizontal air speed (like 10%)
• Slightly Bigger or lower angled hit box for F-air to make it more friendly for air approach short characters
• Better linking on U-Smash hits (they did this for like 2-3 moves on Zero Suit in patch 1.04)
• a few more frames of hit stun on Jab1 (even the slightest delay on getting Jab2 can result in the opponent escaping/jabbing back)
• Less landing lag on the B-air. Seriously, it's not THAT strong/long lasting that it deserves that kind of lag.
• Rock Smash (and the other custom) have a fixed pattern the rock shards release from instead of a random one, making the move more consistent
• Lower starting hit box on U-tilt
• D-throw launch angle sending them more above Zard so no DI means Fly follow up

What I'm afraid of nerf wise...
Flare Blitz/Dragon Rush getting even MORE end lag. Or worse... putting Charizard in free fall. This would seriously ruin the character for me if that happened. >.<

 

[-LzR-]

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to tech after Flare Blitz. You get punished even if you are opponent doesn't do anything about it so why make it even riskier? If it's left untechable it better do a lot more damage or knockback because right now the move is quite underwhelming.

 

[Tmacc]

Buffs/Changes:
I would like to see fair connect more to it's animation....sometimes it's just odd
I'd like up-throw to be a kill throw, and down throw a damage/positioning throw

Nerfs I'm scared of:
Up-b kill nerf
Super armor nerfs
Side-b going into free fall

 

[SkyboundTerror]

Charizard's victory screen needs to have Zero Suit Samus and Zelda rubbing up against him for the stud that he is. Flare Blitz needs to break shields and heal you, too.

 

[-LzR-]

Charizard's victory screen needs to have Zero Suit Samus and Zelda rubbing up against him for the stud that he is. Flare Blitz needs to break shields and heal you, too.

And we have a winner!

 

[R!otStar]

Fire blitz doing more shield damage would be hella nice :>

 

[Pokepal148]

Fire blitz doing more shield damage would be hella nice :>

Just have it pass through shields like dragon rush and we'll be good.

Also, an extra jump would be nice, maybe make his third jump go a little higher as well.

 

[Steeler]

I'd like to see down smash have the same range behind Zard as it does in front. It's very short as is. And up throw buff to make it usable.

 

[C3CC]

REMOVE FLAMETHROWER'S STARTING LAG, for Christ's sake. Or at least reduce it.

 

[ggamer77]

Do you think Charizard will get any good buffs in the new update this month?
If so what buffs would you like to see?


I would personally like to see him with better air movement and less landing lag on his aerials overall since that seems to be his biggest weakness to me.

 

[cwjakesteel]

I have some confidence that Nintendo will bring some balance chances, although very miniscule and marginal when Mewtwo and Lucas come. First thing's first is less ending lag...

Also I am very handsome as you can see by my profile pic.

 

[Knee Smasher]

I would like him to have this in his moveset:

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Hyper_Beam_(move)

 

[SmashRacer]

Increased height on his 3rd jump and maybe more vertical distance to Fly
I agree with less landing lag on his aerials

 

[HeavyLobster]

All the tier lists I've seen have Charizard as bottom 5. He's not that bad, but based on that feedback I think buffs are coming his way. Not that it would be a bad thing for him to get buffed.

 

[Steeler]

Kill power back to his dtilt
Equal range on both sides of dsmash
Do something good to uthrow. Make it much more vertical to set up for juggles better or give it kill power or make it weaker to combo. Seriously ANY change would probably make it better, it's in the perfect sweetspot of where it is just **** and outclassed by other throws at every possible instance (except maybe secret dragon rush combos shhh)

This is like, my "reasonable" list, stuff that Sakurai would actually do

I really hope that he actually sees Zard as a bottom 5 character. Then maybe he could do stuff that's a lil more crazy...

Shorthop bair auto cancel from brawl. Can you imagine. The range. The safety. The power. This will never happen but holy **** this simple buff alone would make Zard viable in the meta i swear to god he would finally have a safe poking aerial to make up for his slow air speed god this makes so much sense and how badass does this move look i will take the hardest of damage and kill power nerfs for this because zard doesn't need to land bairs for kills (hello megaman) BUT JESUS DOES HE NEED A POKING AERIAL TO THROW OUT AND SCARE PEOPLE WITH i cannot get too excited thinking about this because i will be disappoint when it does not.

Revert Dragon Rush to do 15% max. omfg can you imagine the kill power when you "drag" (heh) them off stage this move is the perfect encapsulation of what a Zard fighting in Smash should be about, using your size/speed/strength/flight to get them in the air, in the abyss, and **** em up it's like if uthrow actually did something besides look badass which DR does that AND MUCH MORE enough waxing poetic about that godly move SERIOUSLY OF ALL THE CUSTOMS TO NERF IN PATCH 1.04 THEY PICK OURS WTF KIND OF ****TY LUCK IS THAT JESUS

Less lag on ftilt. So we can "quickly" (frame 12 move iirc which is meh) poke things safely while grounded without using flamethrower

Do something good to Flare Blitz. Whether that be more armor or less startup or more power or more speed or techable recoil or less damage recoil SOMETHING but this will not happen because they nerfed Mac side B for god's sake i bet they nerf this if anything just because of for glory ****heads giving us a bad rap

More range on fair pls because that bair buff ain't happening and so that is the next best thing i am so tired of having to flamethrower because it's our only really safe aerial with range (nair is safe as **** if you do it right but low range and have to hit with the end of a very long move)

Honestly zard is ok if they just tone down the stupid **** in this game (YOSHI ZSS DIDDY SHEIK CHARACTERS WITH INSANE NEUTRAL GAME THAT CAN RELIABLY KILL BETTER THAN A GOD DAMN FIRE BREATHING DRAGON) honestly i am just tired of having to use flamethrower constantly in neutral vs campy/smart players because that is boring as ****

I am scared to death that somehow we get nerfed we are already 0-1, nerf over buff

 

[-LzR-]

There are 3 things Charizard needs to be viable IMO. Any one of these would be good, with #2 being most important.

1: Make Fair actually hit people who are on the ground and cut the landing lag in half.
2: Both hits of Usmash should connect on a backhit.
3: Make Flare Blitz kill 30% earlier or give make Charizard able to absorb hits without taking any damage during the move instead of heavy armor.

I am fine with Uthrow being useless, everyone has useless moves and I'm glad our only useless move is a throw so we don't really lose anything.

 

[Steeler]

I thought about the usmash thing but i assume sakurai wouldn't bother with coding that in, he'd have to change the kb values on the late first hitboxes and i just assume he doesn't care

Fair just feels so bad in neutral. Like an even worse marth fair, which got nerfed to ****.

 

[-LzR-]

I thought about the usmash thing but i assume sakurai wouldn't bother with coding that in, he'd have to change the kb values on the late first hitboxes and i just assume he doesn't care

Fair just feels so bad in neutral. Like an even worse marth fair, which got nerfed to ****.

All Usmash needs is a bigger hitbox on the 2nd hit so it covers the back better. This is a very simple fix to do.

 

[ForteX]

Howdy Charizardfriends. Just dropping in from the Lucas boards to deliver a question to the people who know more about it, and this seems like just the thread to do it in.

In Lucas' reveal trailer, Charizard is show getting PK Fired during a Rock Smash. If I'm not mistaken, Charizard should have super armor at that point in Rock Smash, if any of you could back me up on that, it'd be great, since it means one of three things: I'm wrong about how Rock Smash works, Lucas' PK Fire can get through super armor, or Charizard is losing super armor on Rock Smash.

If the latter is the case I really hate to have possibly brought down the mood in this thread.

 

[-LzR-]

I had no idea Lucas was announced. How amazing for me as I am a big Mother fan!

 

[ggamer77]

In Lucas' reveal trailer, Charizard is show getting PK Fired during a Rock Smash. If I'm not mistaken, Charizard should have super armor at that point in Rock Smash, if any of you could back me up on that, it'd be great, since it means one of three things: I'm wrong about how Rock Smash works, Lucas' PK Fire can get through super armor, or Charizard is losing super armor on Rock Smash.

If the latter is the case I really hate to have possibly brought down the mood in this thread.

I saw that too. But I'm pretty sure the PK Fire hits just when the super armor is gone.