From [insert Smash game here] to Ultimate: How are you guys adjusting to the new game?

[DrinkingFood]

Does PM even have that many tournaments around anymore?

Yeah pretty much every major city has them. I live in south louisiana (lake charles) and I can drive pretty much any direction except south to a major city and attend a PM event they host once a month. Houston has a couple, Baton Rouge recently re-added it to their monthly, North LA even has one. PM also had their largest tourney ever this year, Even Bigger Balc in cali

 

[Wolf_]

Does PM even have that many tournaments around anymore?

There are still weekly tournaments up in Natick MA at game underground if I'm not mistaken. I used to compete every week but they moved further north and it's too much of a drive for me to do every week from RI, plus my training partner quit smash altogether so I can't even practice anymore.

 

[Augi]

Coming from competing in Melee, I have to say I'm....eh...I guess so far. I don't hate it, like I hated Sm4sh. But I don't get the same level of enjoyment. I enjoy the stock-deletion heavy mechanics and gameplay of Melee, and I know I am probably going to be seen as a 'Melee-Tryhard, you need to move on, the game is 17 years old and broken' stereotype, but the movement and combo games just don't fit right with me. With Melee, I could literally play by myself in training mode for hours and not even ATTACK the computer - the movement alone was enough to keep me playing and being entertained. Learning how to perfect every bit of my movement and how to speed things up gave me endless hours of enjoyment and satisfaction. Combos work the same as well. I regularly play against low level computers just to work on my combo game. It isn't the same in Ultimate.

I am enjoying the hell out of the game. But in a few months I will probably be back to my old grind. I cannot replace the feeling of satisfaction I get from perfecting a techskill sequence I had been working on for a few hours or a zero to death stemming from a shine out of shield.

I'm glad someone else helped me encapsulate my thoughts on it. I miss the combos of Melee. Pure and simple. Ultimate is fun, yeah, I'll keep playing and getting better at it too. But the defensive maneuvers... they're too much. Between spot dodges, rolling, air dodges, shields, perfect shields, heavy DI and counters for half the cast, there's so many ways for an opponent to just "Nope" out of a situation they don't like just because you got the drop on them. And when you get through this gauntlet of defensive choices your reward is... one good hit? Maybe 2 or 3 hits under very specific conditions?

Iunno... Maybe I'm just a bad player now.

 

[Sluigi123]

Out of all the Smash games that I've played for nearly 2 decades, the AI in Ultimate takes the cake as being the most improved throughout the series. True that it's not perfect, but that's where patch updates come into play to help fix those issues.
As for game-play, it actually plays somewhat similar to Smash Flash 2, due to the landing lag, and being more offensive than before.
In my opinion, Ultimate is very good in its own right, just like the rest of the other Smash games.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I’m coming from Melee, and it’s been pretty difficult for me to adjust. Dashes feel very sensitive in this game. Still trying to figure out the best movement options. I also feel like it’s more difficult to short hop. Granted, I’m playing on the switch for now (gc adapters sold out EVERYWHERE)

Oh I know what you mean. What I did was changed the flick sensitivity for the sticks to high rather than the default under the controls menu, it felt a lot more like Melee's dash input that way and it has done wonders for me, since I'm not accidentally dashing when I mean to slightly walk.

 

[Ed94]

From melee here. When I tried trash 4; It felt like trying to steer a row boat after learning to drive an F1. Going to this game feels like I'm driving an rc car from 300 feet away with a lag switch on.

My problem is I can't play my style now which is reaction heavy in this game. Even with someone as fast as roy, it feels like I have to "read" everything instead of actually reacting to what they are doing. My brain wanted to do something and I interrupt it and respond with nope. Gotta wait for that buffer or else its just going to eat that crap up.

I really hate oversized buffers in games. Input buffers should never be this large. I've programmed them before, this is forced induced suffering.

I'm trying to just ride it out and hopefully my hands will slow down. Cause I actually like this game. (That or somehow HAL fixes their garbage code. Iwata why did you have to leave us )

 

[Sean²]

I love it.

I had an extreme love-hate relationship with Smash 4. I liked playing DHD a lot but got sick of having to work twice as hard for half the results, and that really wore down on me. I couldn't get a feel for just about all of the competitively viable characters. I also felt like the movements I wanted to make was impossible due to the engine. But it was Smash, and I accepted it even with its faults - until I just got sick of it.

Now I feel like those issues have been wiped away and I can be excited about taking it to the next level again. Besides maybe the weird buffering, I really like this game's mechanics.

 

[Rocketjay8]

From melee here. When I tired trash 4; It felt like trying to steer a row boat after learning to drive an F1. Going to this game feels like I'm driving an rc car from 300 feet away with a lag switch on.

My problem is I can't play my style now which is reaction heavy in this game. Even with someone as fast as roy, it feels like I have to "read" everything instead of actually reacting to what they are doing. My brain wanted to do something and I interrupt it and respond with nope. Gotta wait for that buffer or else its just going to eat that crap up.

I really hate oversized buffers in games. Input buffers should never be this large. I've programmed them before, this is forced induced suffering.

I'm trying to just ride it out and hopefully my hands will slow down. Cause I actually like this game. (That or somehow HAL fixes their garbage code. Iwata why did you have to leave us )

If you are having trouble with lag, hook your black USB adapter in the 3.0 port on the back of the switch. It might fix some of the lag

 

[DrinkingFood]

Oh I know what you mean. What I did was changed the flick sensitivity for the sticks to high rather than the default under the controls menu, it felt a lot more like Melee's dash input that way and it has done wonders for me, since I'm not accidentally dashing when I mean to slightly walk.

High sensitivity makes it easier to dash actually. It expends the window from 6 frames (default, normal sensitivity) to 7 frames to move from tilt->dash range for a successful dash. Low sensitivity would make this 5 frames so you could hit full walk speed 2 frames earlier. Sensitivity also doesn't move stick thresholds around, so what you're experiencing is entirely placebo.

If you are having trouble with lag, hook your black USB adapter in the 3.0 port on the back of the switch. It might fix some of the lag

the difference in input lag has only been shown to be a few milliseconds on average for different ports for GCCs. And the min/max lag for the different ports were identical, so as far as anyone knows for sure, the different ports probably have identical lag.

 

[DavemanCozy]

High sensitivity makes it easier to dash actually. It expends the window from 6 frames (default, normal sensitivity) to 7 frames to move from tilt->dash range for a successful dash. Low sensitivity would make this 5 frames so you could hit full walk speed 2 frames earlier. Sensitivity also doesn't move stick thresholds around, so what you're experiencing is entirely placebo.


the difference in input lag has only been shown to be a few milliseconds on average for different ports for GCCs. And the min/max lag for the different ports were identical, so as far as anyone knows for sure, the different ports probably have identical lag.

Woops Yep you were right it is the other way around. I have low sensitivity on.

 

[Zoa]

DrinkingFood perfectly encapsulated what I think so far. Primarily a PM player here even though I just back into Smash not long ago off a three year hiatus, and have been steadily getting my tech skill back in it. I had unlocked the roster and ended up selling my copy of Ultimate off. Still play if my buddy asks on his system. There's so much input lag. Also punishes are really weak. It seems really difficult to get mid and high percent combos in because of balloon knockback. There's a serious lack of kill confirms, and everything just lives forever in this game. Even my TO was saying this on launch day, and still does to this day. We have to use two stock matches just because of how long everything lives. It's like Brawl and Smash 4 in a lot of ways still. Eventually the game just devolves to a lot of neutral, stray hit, then repeat ad nauseum. Despite the sexy landing lag in the game, it's still way too slow for a lot of the same reasons why Brawl and Smash 4 were lauded for being defensive. You need high and mid percent combos to take stocks in platform fighter like this. Kill confirms, too. Not really digging the game's feel even though I think it's okay.

 

[Mumen Fighter]

Most of my competitive interest was in Melee. I did play Smash 4 for most of its lifespan, albeit not competitively.
Played at 2 tournaments this past weekend, having difficulty adjusting to defensive playstyles, especially from characters with good projectile/zoning options (Young Link, ROB, Belmonts, etc).
Other than that, I'm having a lot of fun with this game and I'm hoping to play more competitively as the opportunities show up.

 

[Diddy Kong]

3DS Smash was my latest Smash game I played and actually owned before Ultimate. Am adjusting fine, still play on handheld mode because I don’t have a GCN adapter or controller at the moment. Everything is fine so far.

 

[InauspiciousPio]

Coming from 4, and the biggest issue I have is that I'm like the only person who actually used a Wii Mote to play smash, so trying to figure out and get used to using the joycons instead has been hard. I know I could just buy a pro controller and then these types of changes wouldn't be so hard, but I've never really liked using one, so trying to adapt from controller to controller it is

Why don’t you just use a GameCube controller? You can use it with all of the systems that have Smash except N64 and 3DS

 

[PsySmasher]

Coming from Smash 4, the transition has been pretty smooth.

Since I tend to play heavier characters, the universal 3 frame jumpsquat really benefits me.
The overall faster pace and reduced landing lag have also made the transition much better for me competitively than Smash 4.
I've gotten pretty good with parrying, so that has helped my punish game significantly in comparison to 4.
The only thing that I'm still getting used to is the air dodge mechanics and recovering.
Since the latter has become much trickier, I'm still figuring out the safest way to recover while not being too predictable.
But overall, this game has been good to me.

 

[Cornstalk]

I gave up on smash 4 because the people I could regularly play with were extremely campy. It felt like a chore instead of a game to actually get in to start something. So far it hasn't felt nearly as daunting to deal with defensive stand and run away projectile spamming.

The faster movement, more movement options (I love the dash changes), and a general buff to power and the speed of the game have made even slow heavies like Ganondorf feel decent to play (instead of downright terrible).

Watching matches against villager/isabelle still hurt my soul for how boring, tedious, and impossible to gimp those two are.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Coming from Smash 4. I am struggling with a lot of things even still. Nobody said it was easy.

The mechanics are new and way different, and I’m struggling to adapt from Smash 4.
- The speed of the game was increased majorly.
- It’s harder to preform the perfect shield now.
- Directional air dodge trip up my edge guarding.
- Players get punished for repetitive rolling.

I’m also getting used to a tether recovery with a new main of mine. Richter has a tether recovery with his forward and back aerials, and it feels a lot better than uppercut. It’s got good distance and works fast.

 

[AegonTheConqueror]

I'm really having a difficult time with this game coming from Smash 4. There are times when I'm just hitting every move and it just flows, then there are times when none of my inputs are reading and once it happens, I tank hard. I don't know about this game anymore tbh, I think I'm gonna take a break and pick this game up again after a couple patches. Maybe after Joker comes out.

 

[Deleted member]

After hundreds of hours of Smash 4, Ultimate feels AMAZING to play. It feels so much more tight and quick compared to 4.

 

[b-roll]

never got into any of the modern smash games so coming from 64 and learning air dodge,spot dodge, up and down throws etc etc has been really fun and challenging. It took me awhile but I was finally able to break bad habits that I’d carried over from playing 64 with friends which were shield grabbing, dash attacking into opponents shield, and going off stage for kill confirms every time. Now I’ve really started to get gud and have 4 characters around 1.5 mill gsp just can seem to break into elite.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Adjusting to this game from Smash 4 was a nightmare, until I started playing World of Light. I wanna say that I fully adjusted around the time I started coming across the upgrade-able spirits.

 

[NathanD]

I played a lot of 64 and next to nothing till now. I'm having so much fun thanks to the online giving me such a great diversity of opponents. I love how big the game feels so much to learn. The tech skills I'm learning have such a big pay off. It's just been a very fun experience for me. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a fighting game so much since mvc 2.

I switched from Ness to Lucas. The character just feels better than ever and I am getting very comfortable. It's been hard not picking a new main though because there's so many great options. I always had a thing for puff and meta knight seems so interesting.

 

[ProbablyOswald]

I'm coming from maining Kirby in Sm4sh and am having a pretty good time with Ultimate.

In terms of playing Kirby, I like how a couple of his short, bread-and-butter combos involving tilts and aerials are relatively the same, as it made transitioning to him in Ultimate a lot easier. The only significant change that I've seen is that his down-smash launches the opponent at a lower angle, which makes it an abysmal kill move in comparison to Sm4sh's down-smash. Other than that, I don't really have any complaints.

World of Light is pretty fun too. Sure, there isn't much of a plot to it, but at least it's something, especially something superior to the mediocre Smash Tour on Sm4sh WiiU. My only complaint gameplay-wise it is that some of the challenges are unfairly difficult, such as the infamous Pauline spirit. However, they're not required to beat the game, so it's not that much of a hindrance to the experience to me.

Despite most of my friends who got the game before me telling me how bad the Online mode is, most of my experiences with it have been pretty good. I like how GSP is being used as a means of showing a player's relative skill level, giving it more of a meaning outside of the game's extra modes, unlike Sm4sh. There have only been a few instances where I've been in one-on-ones with people who turn items on or use gimmicky stages in their rule sets. As a result, my experiences of the Online mode are much more positive (but also a little negative, as I tend to lose a lot more than I'd like to :^) ). I'm also pretty intrigued by Elite Smash. I'm pretty sure it's harder to get it now, especially since I got the game on Christmas, but I'm definitely looking forward to unlocking it soon enough.

I'm definitely astonished by the size of the game's roster, and pretty excited to play with some of the characters that are either new or haven't been around since the older titles. Brawl was my first Smash game, so I never really got to experience playing with some of the characters that were exclusive to Melee. Now that every character from all the installments are playable, I'd like to try some of them out and improve with them, especially Pichu. I also really like some of the newcomers. As a fan of Splatoon, I was pretty excited to see the Inklings, as they have an arsenal of weapons in their own games that made them perfect contenders for Smash in my opinion. I'm also interested in trying out Isabelle and Incineroar, as I enjoyed playing Villager casually in Sm4sh and want to elaborate upon and refine some things I've done when playing Incineroar on occasion. Overall, I really like the large selection of fighters Ultimate has to offer.

I believe I will be spending a lot of time playing this game. For a multiplayer-based game, it's pretty fun to play by myself or with other people. The vast and soon-growing selection of fighters makes Sm4sh's roster seem very small. I've only had a few complaints on this game so far, and I doubt that amount of complaints will grow any time soon. I'm pretty sure this will become my new favorite Smash game soon enough.

 

[MG_3989]

Coming from Brawl, I didn’t really play Smash 4 at all so it’s been 4 or 5 years since I consistently played Smash. The first thing I noticed is the speed and the weight of this game. I kept dying off stage at first because I thought I had a lot more time to recover like in Brawl. The physics in this game are really different and I dig the faster pace. The one thing I still have trouble with is defaulting to shield grab and grabbing too much when it’s not always the best option in this game. It only took a day or two to adjust to the physics and once I did I started getting better really quickly.

I also really love that my main, Ness, is a lot better than he was in Brawl. Now he’s a really good character and in Brawl he wasn’t anything special.

I have the motivation to take this game much more seriously competitively than I ever took Brawl which is really exciting. Maybe not playing Smash for an extended period of time instead of coming right from Brawl helped ease the transition. I think it’s a pretty easy game to pick up and get comfortable with

 

[Red Dress]

Coming from Melee from a semi-competitive background.

I initially refused to give Ultimate a fair chance, but I realized that there is not stakes in me trying it out because if I do not like it - fine; if I do like it - fine. All of my friends had started playing it (who jokingly long time calling me stuck in the past and Melee obsessed), and I miss playing Smash with my friends like the "good ol years".

I like Ultimate enough to be able to constantly play with my friends like those wonderyears, even think I will start going to tourneys.

That said! I have a lot of complaints about Ultimate so far:

1. Hate the input lag and how it feels like pushing molasses when moving the control stick - particularly when dash dancing.

2. Why the **** is Isaac from Golden Sun STILL not a playable character in the game but 4 variants of FE lords and 3 types of Links are in the game, and 2 different equal-opportunity-for-employment characters in the game? Still moderate to heavy salt from that.

3. My biggest complaint by far is how you cannot dash past characters. Coming from any other Smash game (but mostly Melee) not being able to juke, weave, and crossup for whiff punishes feels absolutely terrible. My entire Melee playstyle was very dashdance/neutral whiff-punish heavy and the main barrier to this in Ultimate (besides situational DDs in this game) is the inability to go past my opponent. I think it unnecessarily hinders the neutral and punish game while offering very little in return for its inclusion.


Anyway! I do like Ultimate despite my huge complaints (which I stand firmly upon) and while my heart and love will always be for Melee - I love playing with my close group of friends more, if that means being able to compete with all of them means moving to Ultimate, well, then I will.

 

[youaskedfurret]

I'm so used to Brawl Controls and I played the crud out of that when it came out. I mostly played as Kirby but I used Zelda and Peach a lot too. I also played The N64 version and am pretty decent at most of the characters in that.

I do own the Wii U version but I didn't play it a lot because I found it hard to control and before I could get any good practice I ended up misplacing the disk. ^^;

Anyway with the switch version it's so frustrating not being able to to control things the way I know I should be able to? Also I've been reading some other people's comments and I'm not really into all the technical jargon with Smash but I do notice that when my character is moving around it feels kind of clunky and odd? I mostly play as Kirby so it just feels a bit off when Kirby isn't moving around like he should be. He feels "heavy" like some people are saying.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to get used to the controls going from Brawl please let me know because I'm having a really rough time with this. ToT

 

[Red Dress]

I'm so used to Brawl Controls and I played the crud out of that when it came out. I mostly played as Kirby but I used Zelda and Peach a lot too. I also played The N64 version and am pretty decent at most of the characters in that.

I do own the Wii U version but I didn't play it a lot because I found it hard to control and before I could get any good practice I ended up misplacing the disk. ^^;

Anyway with the switch version it's so frustrating not being able to to control things the way I know I should be able to? Also I've been reading some other people's comments and I'm not really into all the technical jargon with Smash but I do notice that when my character is moving around it feels kind of clunky and odd? I mostly play as Kirby so it just feels a bit off when Kirby isn't moving around like he should be. He feels "heavy" like some people are saying.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to get used to the controls going from Brawl please let me know because I'm having a really rough time with this. ToT

The "clunkiness" that you feel is what is known as "input lag" simply put: When you press a button or move a stick (the input) there is a period of time that goes by where the input is read before the character actually does anything on screen. Now this period of time is not a lot 8-9 frames (in context the game runs at 60 frames per second), however, in a game that requires constant movement and inputs 8-9 frames is a considerable amount (for instance, some attacks come out on as fast as frame 4!

The only way to get used to the game is to play more, eventually you will become accustomed to it. I come from Melee (only 2-3 frames of input lag), so this input lag is actually very jarring to me and I feel it even playing this game almost everyday.

I do not like it, but it is not going to be "fixed" or lowered, but the game is still fun.

 

[Shacknu]

Coming from Smash 4, I like the added Speed and Neutral options. I had Marth as a secondary in smash 4 and now he's my main. I love playing with him because he benefits so much from the new engine, Foxtrotting is very powerful in this game. But there's much less focus on Grab Combos and almost no grab leads into a combo. Jabs also aren't combo starters anymore so I'll have to adjust to that.

If you jab lock, you can lead into combos.

 

[Crystanium]

My last SSB game was SSB4. I had to learn early that my use of dash attack had to be toned down, since it no longer led into combo set-ups. I had to process the speed at which the game played. The controls felt very sensitive, and short hopping wasn't as easy to do. I've adjusted to SSBU, though.

 

[Deleted member]

Being honest: I have an incredibly easy time getting used to the mechanics of each new Smash game after Brawl.

Maybe I am good at adapting myself to any game.

 

[Fox Rox]

While the new input buffer system is taking me a while to get used to, I'm having a blast.

In the past few smash games I didn't really have a main 'cause everyone I played as just didn't feel all that good, every move was so blah. Now I can't choose a main 'cause everyone is so much fun to play!

 

[Sean²]

After 4 months of this game being out, I'm still having issues getting used to the input lag and buffer system. I'll still accidentally buffer an offstage airdodge here and there getting knocked offstage before I can get my shield out. I'd cry tears of joy if they lowered the input lag.

 

[Diddy Kong]

After 4 months of this game being out, I'm still having issues getting used to the input lag and buffer system. I'll still accidentally buffer an offstage airdodge here and there getting knocked offstage before I can get my shield out. I'd cry tears of joy if they lowered the input lag.

This is really the one reason Smash Ultimate doesn't play to it's potential. It's way faster sure, but in the end we know defensive play is gonna take over the meta game if imput lag isn't as much of an issue. That's why the early days of Ultimate about 3 months ago was ruled by sword fighters. Now it seems the engine is more well known with the competitive crowd and I'm guessing that frame data is gonna be the next most important factor to determine if a character is good or not, and the character can only get better with a solid projectile.

If Smash 4 is a faster Brawl, Ultimate is a faster Smash 4.

 

[wimbearn]

From the Wii U/3DS to Ultimate, I'd say good! Trying to master Ultimate controls, still. One thing I don't like is when you exit WoL, you get a challenger. I sometimes have a hard time beating them. Otherwise, its good.

 

[xwingz900]

I made a direct transition from Smash 4 (with a little Melee on the side) to Ultimate and I can successfully say that I'm playing Ultimate way better than I ever played Smash 4. Transition has been smooth, and every character I played in Smash 4 with exception of Cloud (who is still solid) got buffed in some way so it's been great for me all around!

 

[QuantumKiller]

I've played all the smash games for a considerable amount of time but coming from mostly melee, the game feels pretty good to me now. I've spent time learning the buffer system and readjusting how I play slightly. I've put a ton of practice in and so far I've had pretty good results while playing with friends and a few random people I've talk to, but I'm certain they haven't put the same amount of time as me so there's that.

Sadly though, the game definitely has a learning curve with the buffer system that detracted a lot of people who I've played melee with. I think the main reason for this is because buffer system severely punishes option selecting (specifically the way people do it in melee) and causes them to air dodge, spot dodge, or really anything that gets them punished. I think some don't immediately realize that not every smash game is played the same way in terms of inputs and end up criticizing it more than it deserves. I do think however that most of them give the game a chance and are willing to adapt to aspect like the neutral game and learning character match-ups. Now with that said, the buffering system COMBINED with input lag really makes it tough to learn and I don't blame them. They're going from melee which has almost no input delay and minimal buffering to something that has a sizable amount of both.

I still have to play ultimate more but I'm already enjoying a lot it since it seems like they went in a more competitive direction.

3. My biggest complaint by far is how you cannot dash past characters. Coming from any other Smash game (but mostly Melee) not being able to juke, weave, and crossup for whiff punishes feels absolutely terrible. My entire Melee playstyle was very dashdance/neutral whiff-punish heavy and the main barrier to this in Ultimate (besides situational DDs in this game) is the inability to go past my opponent. I think it unnecessarily hinders the neutral and punish game while offering very little in return for its inclusion.

This is my main gripe with the game. I sometimes forget about not being able to run through characters and end up getting punished (It looks really funny pushing a scared opponent in shield though). Being able to only cross up with aerials gets a bit stale at times, I just want to be able to run through and then turnaround anything so bad.

 

[Lunardog15]

coming from sm4sh and 64
kirby feels ... good?
the dash is cool and dair to fsmash is stupid
over all it's a good time for me at least

 

[GhostM]

Coming from Melee, both Smash 4 and Ultimate felt weird to me because I was so used to the mechanics and techniques in Melee that I didn’t really know how to approach someone without using them. Basically felt a lot more slower in Smash 4 and Ultimate without wavedashing, and I would constantly use techniques such as L-Cancelling by accident even though you can’t perform it in smash 4 or Ultimate. Don’t get me wrong, both smash 4 and Ultimate are good games to me, but I had to adjust and adapt to the new gameplay. As time went on though, I figured out how to approach and play neutral game better.

 

[wimbearn]

Coming from Melee, both Smash 4 and Ultimate felt weird to me because I was so used to the mechanics and techniques in Melee that I didn’t really know how to approach someone without using them. Basically felt a lot more slower in Smash 4 and Ultimate without wavedashing, and I would constantly use techniques such as L-Cancelling by accident even though you can’t perform it in smash 4 or Ultimate. Don’t get me wrong, both smash 4 and Ultimate are good games to me, but I had to adjust and adapt to the new gameplay. As time went on though, I figured out how to approach and play neutral game better.

Same with me. I started with the Wii U version, and got used to it. When Ultimate came out, it felt weird. I'm still learning the controls and trying to unlock all fighters.

 

[Grimel]

I come from Smash 4 and the transition went pretty well. Biggest problems were adjusting to the buffer system and how I can't instantly full hop aerial without getting a short hop. I was worried about having difficulties with short hopping when I heard about the universal 3 frame jumpsquat but I didn't have problems with consistent short hops at all.