From [insert Smash game here] to Ultimate: How are you guys adjusting to the new game?

Ryu_Ken

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#1
I'm coming from Smash 4, so the biggest things I have to get used to is the 3 frame jumpsquat, the short-hop attack mechanic, reduced landing lag on aerials, parrying, dashing, and (surprisingly) the CPU AI. I got used to Ultimate Link pretty quickly (especially him not having a tether and the remote bombs): it's just the mechanics overall that make my main feel a bit weird to play. CPUs are considerably more difficult to fight, and I think it's because they no longer spam dodges, meaning they're noticeably more offensive. Maybe once I adjust to the mechanics, they'll get a bit easier, but they won't be as exploitable as before.

What are your impressions? What's the weirdest/most difficult part of the gameplay you have to get used to?
 

eddiram

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#2
I’m coming from Melee, and it’s been pretty difficult for me to adjust. Dashes feel very sensitive in this game. Still trying to figure out the best movement options. I also feel like it’s more difficult to short hop. Granted, I’m playing on the switch for now (gc adapters sold out EVERYWHERE)
 
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#3
I'm coming from Project M, and I'm trying to like this game, but the weak punishes, limited neutral options, limited creativity, and awkward buffer system are painful to adjust to. Gonna try to get good at this game regardless but I don't foresee myself ever picking this over PM.
 

Unisex

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#4
Coming from Brawl the game feels heavier and faster. Honestly the weight was harder to get use to, than anything, as my brain remembers everything floaty. I like these changes though. Pikachu has always been my main but honestly? Link is sooo much better than the pervious games I played, Ive been addicted to him. Everything about him suits me.
Feels weird seeing heavies moving around so fast. Its hard to break chain grab reflex at times. At least ill be able to unlearn things about characters faster, since its been so long since i played.
 
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Emblem Lord

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#5
I'm coming from Project M, and I'm trying to like this game, but the weak punishes, limited neutral options, limited creativity, and awkward buffer system are painful to adjust to. Gonna try to get good at this game regardless but I don't foresee myself ever picking this over PM.
What character are you playing where neutral is limited?

Ganondorf?
 

X1rom

Smash Rookie
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#6
Coming from Smash 4, I like the added Speed and Neutral options. I had Marth as a secondary in smash 4 and now he's my main. I love playing with him because he benefits so much from the new engine, Foxtrotting is very powerful in this game. But there's much less focus on Grab Combos and almost no grab leads into a combo. Jabs also aren't combo starters anymore so I'll have to adjust to that.
 
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#8
Coming from Smash 4, I like the added Speed and Neutral options. I had Marth as a secondary in smash 4 and now he's my main. I love playing with him because he benefits so much from the new engine, Foxtrotting is very powerful in this game. But there's much less focus on Grab Combos and almost no grab leads into a combo. Jabs also aren't combo starters anymore so I'll have to adjust to that.
Up throw and down throw into aerials still works in ultimate,not for every character though
 

Alsyght

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#9
I’m coming from Smash 4, and I’m liking this game a ton. I just don’t like how I can’t press start to exit certain screens and the training mode menu is ass. Otherwise it’s nice, faster gameplay and I’m loving the new dash mechanics because it’s all I wanted. Better than perfect pivoting all the damn time with the stupid sensitivity of the sticks.
 

Coopachabra

Smash Rookie
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#10
I'm coming from Brawl as a Samus main, and I never played SSB4. I have to say I dislike the changes to Samus. There is so much landing lag with almost all the airials as well as the removal of missile cancelling has been super hard to adjust to.
 
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#11
Coming from 4, and the biggest issue I have is that I'm like the only person who actually used a Wii Mote to play smash, so trying to figure out and get used to using the joycons instead has been hard. I know I could just buy a pro controller and then these types of changes wouldn't be so hard, but I've never really liked using one, so trying to adapt from controller to controller it is
 

Primal Cookie

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#12
I'm coming from Smash 4, and everything feels very sensitive control-wise (yes I tried moving the sensitivity down to low, but then almost nothing would input at all). The balloon knockback is a bit strange to adjust to, and the new perfect shield is hard for me to get right. I'll definitely get used to it though.
 
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#13
What character are you playing where neutral is limited?

Ganondorf?
All of them, coming from Melee and PM. Coming from sm4sh, it probably feels like your neutral is "unlocked" because have more options now. Imagine the same thing in reverse, and that's what its like for a Melee/PM player to play Brawl/sm4sh/Ultimate, to varying degrees.
 

Shadi432

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#16
I'm struggling to control my character, coming from Smash 4 for 3DS, I am finding a gamecube style controller hard to use. Short hops are so hard.
 

Lonky

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#17
Coming from Smash 4 while playing also a lot of Melee, Ultimate just feels right. Replaying Sm4sh feels like replaying a beta after finishing the main game, Ultimate seems fair in more things, more balanced, overall faster, and more creative, Smash 4 has so much stuff that's just plain stupid, like some butter and bread combos that got nerfed in the new game.
Everyone feels rewarding in the right way, there are no characters that I looked at thinking "oh my god this sucks", and the broken things just are fun and never really unfair. I'm really excited to see where this game will lead us to.
 

3DSNinja

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#18
Coming from SSF2, It feels perfect. I'm used to dash-dancing and low landing lag aerials, which is great. I love the lack of chain grabs and the bigger roster. I do miss BDee and Chibi as playable tho. And Sandbag and Ichigo. and there only being one Fire Emblem rep.
 

BanePlane

Smash Rookie
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#19
I feel very well adjusted to Smash Ultimate all things considered. Some mechanics feel a little off, and I felt like there was some buffer between moves/delay (i still don't know if it's because my friend didn't plug the GC adapter all the way or if the game just has this naturally, it very well could be neither and I just might've been feeling off when I first picked it). That being said, the only smash games I ever tried to get serious in was Project M/Melee (which I held my own pretty well competitively) and Smash 4 (which was a lot more difficult for me but I respect the game competitively a bit more than Melee because it's not as easy and has a way more viable roster, despite me heavily disliking the more defense based gameplay and the art style hurts my eyes). It felt weird going online in a game that wasn't Project M/Melee and actually not only holding it down, but having fun with it too. Got a lot of win streaks.
 

KurashiDragon

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#20
I've been having trouble remembering that I cant go through characters like in literally every other smash game ever but especially smash 4 where running behind your opponent was actually pretty integeral. Also, the buffering in this game is a fair bit obnoxious. I'm used to playing on semi-auto pilot so my hand movements can go to fast for my mind to keep up with it which leads me to messing up and getting punished hard. Also, in general I still play "Smash 4" when I play ultimate because even though the 2 games are intrinsically different when you get down to brass tacks, on the surface, they still look to similar for me to not process playing differently. I'm just not used to playing ultimate is all I'm saying.
 

Wolf_

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#21
Coming from PM/Melee, I don't mean to offend anyone but I don't like how the game feels, I never played brawl or smash 4 really so may it's because of that, but movement is so limited in this game.

And are you actually not supposed to be able to run through characters or is that something to be patched? It's so weird, and the ledge mechanics are also really weird, having 2 people grab it at the same time.

The online has so much lag it's unbearable, I played for a few hours last night but man, even the best connections still had way too much lag to enjoy. I got the lan adapter as well but I guess it doesn't make that much of a difference.

I was trying out Y. Link a lot, he's kind of fun, but honestly all of the characters feel just about exactly the same for some reason. Hitstun is so low, I guess combos aren't really a thing except for pikachu/pichu, maybe DI in this game is different but I get stuck in so many of their moves and can't seem to get out.

If anyone played against an orange Y.Link with the tag "Shaun" that was me lol

I don't intend to spend money on a gaming monitor for this game so I won't be taking it serious enough for tournaments, but it seems like a fun casual game to have for when you have friends over.
 

Jam 502

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#22
I haven’t played since 7 years ago on Melee, but the transition is not too bad. It’ll take a month or 2 before I get adept at combos and learning all the mechanics of the more advanced characters.
 
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Rocketjay8

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#23
Coming from PM/Melee, I don't mean to offend anyone but I don't like how the game feels, I never played brawl or smash 4 really so may it's because of that, but movement is so limited in this game.

And are you actually not supposed to be able to run through characters or is that something to be patched? It's so weird, and the ledge mechanics are also really weird, having 2 people grab it at the same time.

The online has so much lag it's unbearable, I played for a few hours last night but man, even the best connections still had way too much lag to enjoy. I got the lan adapter as well but I guess it doesn't make that much of a difference.

I was trying out Y. Link a lot, he's kind of fun, but honestly all of the characters feel just about exactly the same for some reason. Hitstun is so low, I guess combos aren't really a thing except for pikachu/pichu, maybe DI in this game is different but I get stuck in so many of their moves and can't seem to get out.

If anyone played against an orange Y.Link with the tag "Shaun" that was me lol

I don't intend to spend money on a gaming monitor for this game so I won't be taking it serious enough for tournaments, but it seems like a fun casual game to have for when you have friends over.
Not running through characters was intentional. You instead push them.
 
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#24
Coming from Melee as a spacies main. Pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoy the feel of this game. I did try Smash for Wii U when it launched and couldn't enjoy it. I think Ultimate is the first official Smash game in years that Melee players will be able to feel comfortable playing.

I do not think this game will replace Melee for anyone. However I've played Melee for so many years now that I'm excited to play Ultimate for a long time and enjoy a new experience.
 
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#25
As someone who was much better at Melee than Brawl or Sm4sh, this game is working out for me just fine. When I first started playing, the speed of the game took a bit to adjust to coming off of 4, but the mechanics are much more suited to my playstyle. Just wanted to see if anyone else finds the stick on the switch to be a little tricky to use at times. Sometimes I just outright use the wrong aerial on the Belmonts when I'm trying to angle the whip. I seem to also have a problem with recoveries like Ridley, Wolf, and Fox where I sometimes screw up when trying to uspecial diagonally. Might just be me though.
 
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#26
It's an experience. I played Brawl but I barely recall my time with it. Smash4 I played a lot and had fun with. Ultimate is a far cry from 4. The speed threw me a loop, and going to a game with no combos to a game with combos saw me getting wombo'd my first few matches before I caught on. Smashes are... weird. I feel an odd delay, like there's pre smash attack lag along with after move lag. On that note, abilities getting stale can be felt in this game. You never realize how much you dodge roll until you're moving like you're swimming in a sea of molasses. You can feel the palpable slowdown when you over use moves too. using smashes too often makes you slow too, ditto for tilts, probably specials, etc. Overall I love the changes and how it's forcing me into a more aggressive playstyle that encourages move variety. Also, all characters feel buttery smooth to use. I haven't yet found a character that I actively dislike playing. Incineroar might be the one I like the least, but I still like to play them.
 

Ryu_Ken

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#27
It's an experience. I played Brawl but I barely recall my time with it. Smash4 I played a lot and had fun with. Ultimate is a far cry from 4. The speed threw me a loop, and going to a game with no combos to a game with combos saw me getting wombo'd my first few matches before I caught on. Smashes are... weird. I feel an odd delay, like there's pre smash attack lag along with after move lag. On that note, abilities getting stale can be felt in this game. You never realize how much you dodge roll until you're moving like you're swimming in a sea of molasses. You can feel the palpable slowdown when you over use moves too. using smashes too often makes you slow too, ditto for tilts, probably specials, etc. Overall I love the changes and how it's forcing me into a more aggressive playstyle that encourages move variety. Also, all characters feel buttery smooth to use. I haven't yet found a character that I actively dislike playing. Incineroar might be the one I like the least, but I still like to play them.
You certainly get punished since rolling too much makes each roll and air dodge slower with less invincibility, but the attacks don't get slower. They get weaker, just like any other Smash game.
 

Praxis

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#28
Coming from Brawl and Melee, with not a lot of Smash 4 experience (disliked it), I'm mixed so far. I like the speed, but the input lag feels worse than Brawl or Melee (need to try another TV maybe), and it feels very hard to followup on moves. Brawl also made following up on moves hard, but it felt like my focus was on the projectile game, and these characters don't have Brawl's projectile game.

I'll need to play a bit more and see if I can find ways to make actual followups.
 

"Bn"

Smash Cadet
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#29
Coming From smash 4. I like it so far, nice and swift and KO's feel satisfying. Main gripe is how the watered down colours are making it almost impossible for me to see certain things on some stages, like Snakes grenades (not the mine, I know you're not supposed to see that) on Arena Ferox. Being colour blind it makes me wonder if I could even play seriously knowing all my opponent has to do is pick a Snake and certain stages....... Bit of a bum out really.

Other than that I'm having a lot of fun! :)
 

Wolf_

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#30
Not running through characters was intentional. You instead push them.
Thank you for clarifying. But why would they do this? It feels so unnatural, being able to run through opponents has been part of this series for a long time.

Another thing has been bothering me as well, even playing on a good tv, it feels like there's lag, like I press a button, but it still takes a while for the character to respond, not sure what the terminology is for it, and maybe I'm just crazy but I can't get used to it.
 

Rocketjay8

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#31
Thank you for clarifying. But why would they do this? It feels so unnatural, being able to run through opponents has been part of this series for a long time.

Another thing has been bothering me as well, even playing on a good tv, it feels like there's lag, like I press a button, but it still takes a while for the character to respond, not sure what the terminology is for it, and maybe I'm just crazy but I can't get used to it.
I think it was a way to make it harder for fast characters like Sonic from crossing up and out camp slower characters. Also, I think that this game has a bit more input delay than most smash games. You might want to turn your tv to game mode to get rid of some of the delay.
 

SorrowOfAcheron

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#32
Never played Smash 4 (played on/off on 3DS until a bit after Roy release; played a lot of Melee/Brawl before that) and the thing I dislike the most is the stick sensitivity for walking/running.
Also wish it was easier to short-hop without the new command; good on jumpsquats being 3 frames but I feel like I have to be a bit too fast to get a SH in the heat of the moment.

Other than that I'm liking it.
 

Ryu_Ken

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#33
Never played Smash 4 (played on/off on 3DS until a bit after Roy release; played a lot of Melee/Brawl before that) and the thing I dislike the most is the stick sensitivity for walking/running.
Also wish it was easier to short-hop without the new command; good on jumpsquats being 3 frames but I feel like I have to be a bit too fast to get a SH in the heat of the moment.

Other than that I'm liking it.
There's an option in Controls to adjust the stick sensitivity this time around. Don't know if you knew that already or not.

Also, I've heard a few people here say that there's slightly more input delay than previous Smash games, but I don't think that's the case. If it weren't for the 3 frame jumpsquat and the reduced landing lag on all aerials across the board, I'd say there's slightly less input delay. :lol:
In other words, the delay seems unchanged to me. On another note, I've been practicing parrying and acting out of it against Mario's fsmash, and I've learned that the 5 frame window to parry after dropping shield feels pretty lenient. You also have plenty of time to react with the appropriate punish as well. Moves that clash also leave both attackers with more lag than usual, so you have more time to react to those situations as well. It still feels weird getting used to the new changes, but going back to the basics/fundamentals really helps. (Weirdly enough, watching Ultimate Tenkaichi helped, too, because it takes the Rock/Paper/Scissor concept of fighting games to a literal extreme, which is always a refreshing reminder towards Smash's way more subtle and complex take on it).
 
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Rocketjay8

Smash Journeyman
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#34
There's an option in Controls to adjust the stick sensitivity this time around. Don't know if you knew that already or not.

Also, I've heard a few people here say that there's slightly more input delay than previous Smash gamed, but I don't think that's the case. If it weren't for the 3 frame jumpsquat and the reduced landing lag on all aerials across the board, I'd say there's slightly less input delay. :lol:
In other words, the delay seems unchanged to me. On another note, I've been practicing parrying and acting out of it against Mario's fsmash, and I've learned that the 5 frame window to parry after dropping shield feels pretty lenient. You also have plenty of time to react with the appropriate punish as well. Moves that clash also leave both attackers with more lag than usual, so you have more time to react to those situations as well. It still feels weird getting used to the new changes, but going back to the basics/fundamentals really helps. (Weirdly enough, watching Ultimate Tenkaichi helped, too, because it takes the Rock/Paper/Scissor concept of fighting games to a literal extreme, which is always a refreshing reminder towards Smash's way more subtle and complex take on it).
So, the most delay of any smash game is a non-issue due to the 3 frame jump squat and landing lag reduction? This game will be even crazier if Nintendo fixes the input delay, holy crap.
 

Wolf_

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#35
I think it was a way to make it harder for fast characters like Sonic from crossing up and out camp slower characters. Also, I think that this game has a bit more input delay than most smash games. You might want to turn your tv to game mode to get rid of some of the delay.
Thanks for the advice, I did try putting my tv in game mode but it didn't seem to make a noticeable difference. I'm using a plasma tv too so I'm guessing it's probably not the best for testing this either.

One of my friends has a gaming monitor and says it feels like there's input delay, but he thinks it's from the gc controller to usb converter. I wouldn't know anything about that but I'm going to try it out on his setup later this week to see.
 

gritgodx

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#36
Not well. I had a very defensive and combo based play style in the previous game (played a few different characters). Basically, I would zone around my opponent with lots of shielding and wait for an opening, whiff, or mess up of some kind (baited out a lot of moves). Then I would go in and try to open up with a grab or up tilt and take it as far as possible with a good amount of edge guarding and tech chasing.

However, in this game I feel like that style just isn't going to work well, or at least it hasn't worked well at all for me so far having played it for a few days with my friends. Shielding is worse and so many moves do much more shield damage and pushback it makes it harder to grab or shield grab out of shield like I used to do to open up so many combos. Aggressive play in general seems much better with the faster aerials, etc. which also contributes. There are a lot of combos ingrained into my head which don't work so well anymore like Mario's down throw -> up tilt. I need to unlearn a lot of stuff. Parrying is something I'm going to have to get used to, as well as using more aggressive options OOS like FAir.

Overall, I really like the game itself, and theres a lot of characters I can't wait to experiment with, but my adjustment is going to be a bumpy one. However, I'm enjoying the crap out of it so far!
 
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Joined
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Messages
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#37
Is it me, or do a lot of moves (except aerials) have a lot of ending lag compared to previous smash games?
Or is it the new buffer mechanic that gives me this impression? (cause everytime I perform a move, I can't get out of it the way I want to)

There's something that feels off and I can't put my finger on it...
 

Managomous

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#38
Mmmmm...i've been involved with the Smash series since 64. I was pretty competitive in Melee for a short time, and very competitive in Sm4sh. (Until Bayo killed it, thx).

This game though, is probably my least favorite next to Brawl. The mechanics feel off. It feels like there is considerable input lag (Tried with monitor, still meh). The knock back destroys any sort of combo game. Really not a fan of the new perfect shield system, or parry system, whatever. I felt perfect shielding in the previous iterations were done right, this feels bad and makes projectiles that much more powerful. Correct me if i'm wrong, but in Sm4sh you were able to steal the ledge pretty easily(Run off and grab the ledge) I can't for the life of me do this in Ultimate at all, which is a shame because it eliminates an option of aggression. Online play is aggravating to say the least, it's almost like Nintendo is trolling us. Also what's with short hop? I'm glad i'm not the only one who has been noticing this.

In short, I feel like people are trying to ride the hype train to make this game seem better than it actually is. Yes, it has a multitude of characters, which is awesome. Yes, dash dancing is back and it feels like a compromise between Melee and Sm4sh. But at the same time it got rid of a few things from Smash 4 and previous iterations (Perfect Shielding, ledge stealing (Again please correct me if i'm wrong).

I played Sm4sh and Melee during the apex of the conflict between the two, and I think both games were great for what they were, two standalone games. I feel as though there is a lot of hate for Smash 4, but honestly, if not comparing it to Melee, and ignoring the Bayonetta days (Possibly even Cloud) it was a very solid game that felt good to play. Aside from dash dancing, the game felt smooth, and did allow a combo game (Although it could be argued u-tilts combos are stale, that led to more follow ups for characters like Mario, Luigi, Fox, etc).

This game has me frustrated to the point that I actually feel as though I want to go back to Smash 4, and just run tournaments with Bayonetta/Cloud banned just to see if it's worth investing time into. I keep holding onto hope, believing that maybe it's just I need to get adjusted to the mechanics/gameplay, or that maybe it's just me. But reading over this thread, it seems like people are running into similar issues which makes me believe it's something with the game itself. At this point, i'm hoping these are just bugs that need to be ironed out, and that Nintendo invested too much time focused on just getting the game out / investing more time on the characters than the actual game play.


tl;dr: Not a fan of this game from a player standpoint.
 

trunks182

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#39
I'm coming from Project M, and I'm trying to like this game, but the weak punishes, limited neutral options, limited creativity, and awkward buffer system are painful to adjust to. Gonna try to get good at this game regardless but I don't foresee myself ever picking this over PM.
Does PM even have that many tournaments around anymore?
 

Zubyyyy

Yung Zuby the Falco God
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#40
Coming from competing in Melee, I have to say I'm....eh...I guess so far. I don't hate it, like I hated Sm4sh. But I don't get the same level of enjoyment. I enjoy the stock-deletion heavy mechanics and gameplay of Melee, and I know I am probably going to be seen as a 'Melee-Tryhard, you need to move on, the game is 17 years old and broken' stereotype, but the movement and combo games just don't fit right with me. With Melee, I could literally play by myself in training mode for hours and not even ATTACK the computer - the movement alone was enough to keep me playing and being entertained. Learning how to perfect every bit of my movement and how to speed things up gave me endless hours of enjoyment and satisfaction. Combos work the same as well. I regularly play against low level computers just to work on my combo game. It isn't the same in Ultimate.

I am enjoying the hell out of the game. But in a few months I will probably be back to my old grind. I cannot replace the feeling of satisfaction I get from perfecting a techskill sequence I had been working on for a few hours or a zero to death stemming from a shine out of shield.
 
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