Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[constable lemon]

I don't know if this was ever possible before the nair buff but I've gotten nair to down tilt as a true combo in training mode at 0 and nair to up tilt as true at early %s as well. Something we should look into.

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

I want to change the characters in my signature now.

 

[the_muffin]

anyone else try Corrin out? I'm honestly considering switching mains at this rate.....

I have, but neither Corrin or Bayonetta really felt right to me. Not enough "umph" in their attacks. They seem like well done characters and I'm sure people are going to do good things with them, but they're not for me.

 

[san.]

All of Ike's hitbox changes have been released. You can check out the thread in competitive discussion. The official thread hasn't been updated for it yet, but it should soon.

The most notable changes are:

nair angle 70->80.

Ike received an increase in range on his fair.

Fsmash sourspot 17->19 damage with a small angle adjustment.

Eruption fire hitbox lasts a little longer.

 

[Arrei]

Huh, I was thinking I'd been landing easier Fair chains than usual. So it actually reaches farther now.

I suppose increasing Eruption's active frames mean they approve whole-heartedly of using it for edgeguard purposes.

 

[Mario766]

The fire only affects high recoveries however so the buff isn't amazing

 

[Aninymouse]

Buffing Fair honestly shocked me. The fact that they made Ike's best move even better just fills me with joy!

Time to wreck some fellow scrubs!

 

[ReroRero]

Fair hits better where ? I ask this because a better hitbox below would be amazing for a auto cancel Fair

The fire only affects high recoveries however so the buff isn't amazing

Yeah but a longer hitbox would make better chance to catch an opponent during the 2 frame vulnerability when grabbing the ledge

 

[DarkDeity15]

Buffing Fair honestly shocked me. The fact that they made Ike's best move even better just fills me with joy!

Time to wreck some fellow scrubs!

Isn't Nair his best move?

 

[Aninymouse]

Isn't Nair his best move?

Not in my opinion, no, but it's by no means bad. It's in the top 5 or so.

 

[Xuan Wu]

If I have to personally rank Ike's aerials in terms of usefulness, it would look like this...

F-air > N-air ≥ B-air > U-air > D-air

F-air: Most essential for spacing. It can be used as a follow-up to various attacks, including N-air, D-tilt, and U-throw; kill confirming with it is also possible, made even easier by the latest update, thanks to increased damage output and range. Retreating fast-fall F-air is probably my most used attack for covering my opponents' get-up options from ledges, such as jump, roll, and the ledge get-up attack. Like user Aninymouse, I consider F-air to be Ike's best aerial, even before the version 1.1.4. update. It's amazing how far the move came since 3DS version launch. Over the course of SSB4's lifetime, it has gained speed, an auto-cancel window, altered hitbox placements, minor landing lag reduction, power, and range. If it wasn't for SSBB F-air's absurd range, SSB4 F-air would have overshadowed it in every aspect.

N-air: I had the most difficulty in deciding between N-air and B-air as Ike's next most useful aerial, but, in the end, I gave N-air the slight edge. For me, N-air was my main combo starter as well as a secondary spacing tool to F-air. At zero to low percents I would typically follow it up with Jab, Grab, or D-tilt, while F-air, B-air, or even a footstool would be used at around mid percents. The knockback angle change to this move seems to make it easier to footstool afterward. U-throw to N-air at high percent also seems to be a thing now, thanks to the angle change and damage buff. The move now surpasses its SSBB incarnation damage-wise, 10% instead of 9%.

B-air: Powerful, good range, SH auto-cancellable, and surprisingly fast start-up. Due to this, Ike is one of the many characters whose B-air benefits greatly with RAR. Good for spacing, but even better for combos and KOs. Together with F-air, this is my main aerial used after D-throw and U-throw at low percents. The traditional reverse N-air to B-air combo from SSBB in still intact. B-air can also true combo from D-tilt, even at earlier percents than F-air, though timing can be strict and requires frame-perfect precision from the player to pull it off consistently. I wasn't around during the 3DS days of SSB4, but I do know this move used to be 1% weaker before version 1.0.4.

U-air: The large amount of active frames is the main draw of this move, in my opinion. I don't know if I'm not utilizing this move as much as I should be, but, for me, I used it for mainly niche purposes. Aside from frame trapping air dodges, I was able to gain sufficient mileage from it by using it out of a footstool to D-air lock combo, then following up with Aether. The reduced landing lag by 3 frames and improved base knockback from 1.0.8 and 1.1.0., respectively, did wonders to it, though the loss of 14% damage from SSBB is still lamentable.

D-air: Of all of Ike's aerials that transitioned from SSBB, this one was hit the hardest by nerfs. Not only is it 1% weaker, the hitbox no longer lingers and the meteor hitbox has been moved to the tip of Ragnell. If there was anything positive to say about the attack, it is perhaps Ike's only means of locking his opponents, typically after a footstool.

Although they are ranked differently, they all have their uses. Sorry for the unnecessary wall of text.

^-^

 

[Krysco]

Been forever since I posted here. Dropped Ike for a bit and left here because of it. With Wolf pretty much confirmed to be out, I need to look at my favourite characters and decide 1 or 2 to use for tournaments starting next year. Narrowed my list to this: /.

In other news, I got an amusing combo or follow up when playing FG dubs with my cousin when Bayo and Corrin came out. Was fighting two Ganons and in two different matches I got fair > fair > Aether killing both of us. It was completely pointless since it's time matches but it was funny as hell xD

 

[DarkDeity15]

Nair to footstool should be a lot easier now for obvious reasons. Definitely something to take advantage of.

 

[Trueblade]

Yeah but a longer hitbox would make better chance to catch an opponent during the 2 frame vulnerability when grabbing the ledge

The sword hitbox, the one used to catch the 2 frame vulnerability, wasn't touched. It's still 7 frames. The flame hitbox is what gained more active frames.

 

[san.]

Overall, kill confirms are better, nair juggling + optimized combos are better, and Ike can space a little better. Now, the problem is: How do we keep our moves fresh?

• Nair->footstool (this can be chained into more)
  
• Nair->dtilt on fastfallers at 0%
• Nair->utilt on floaties
• Uthrow->nair kill confirm when nair is fresh ~80-100 depending on the rage.
  
• Gimmicky nair->aether works better
  
• Sourspot nair in general combos, kill confirms, and allows for footstools more easily
  
• Nair has better kill confirms into uair since it launches higher for uair to kill
• Fair spacing is legitimate
• A gimmicky option like SV bthrow->fair can work if they don't DI away.
• Fair kill confirms easier and combos for a longer time from dthrow, uthrow, nair, dtilt, and uair
  
• Dthrow->fair much easier to perform at mid % than before for instance allows for some alternate pressure options when platforms are above you.

Even when Ike isn't going for combos, his 50/50s are more dangerous when you have to think of all 3 aerials where half of his aerials can be used as a uair, nair, and fair.

This may seem like a lot, but it makes things that Ike already could do easier and more dangerous.

 

[Aninymouse]

Thanks for all the good ideas, everyone.

I'd like to think Sakurai and team saw Nair to footstool in a video and buffed Nair explicitly to make it easier.

Then I look at Bayonetta and think...my love for the development team is diminishing fast, lol. People tell me Bayonetta is fine, she's not OP, but I'm not entirely convinced.

 

[Arrei]

Now if only we could get that a ledge snap for Aether already. I haven't eaten a Witch Time Dsmash yet as previously discussed, but it's probably going to be happen at some point and it'll definitely suck.

Bayonetta seems to be designed off a sort of high risk, high reward sort of deal. Her Witch Twist/Afterburner Kick combos may be a touch too easy to pull off for how potent they are, but there's a seriously high skill demand to play her effectively and every mistake can be extremely costly given her endlag, low weight, and limited recovery paths on non-walled stages. It also feels like she loses to shield pretty hard, though not as hard as others in that group, as her grabs are potent but a lot of her attacks make her step forward right into dangerous territory and her Heel Slide's rather easy to see coming just by noting when you're standing in that ideal spot she wants you to be in to link into her aerial combos.

 

[Mario766]

Bair can be fresh since we need it less for killing. Fair being fresh is likely not possible however. Maybe nair can help with that.

 

[Arrei]

Huh. Never really thought about it before now, but now that you mention it it really does seem nigh impossible to keep Fair fresh, between its versatility for combos and followups and Ike's inability to use many specials or smashes outside of hard reads and niche applications. I suppose we'd just need to watch to see if we spend a particular stock using a lot of Bair instead of Fair and plan accordingly... or if we happen to get killed while our opponent's at kill confirm range.

 

[Deleted member]

Destroyed a Corrin who kept spamming projectile by dodging the first projectile and countering the mandatory second hit on Corrin's Special.

Worth keeping note of since if you get past the first projectile, you get a confirmed counter which can easily kill at higher percents.

 

[Arrei]

Keep in mind that Corrin is not forced to charge the bite attack though - countering a full bite will be deadly, but you might also just be jumping into a free uncharged 10% bite.

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

What is this site talking about when it says there are "robots" online? Something about adding results to browser databases?

 

[Mario766]

Huh. Never really thought about it before now, but now that you mention it it really does seem nigh impossible to keep Fair fresh, between its versatility for combos and followups and Ike's inability to use many specials or smashes outside of hard reads and niche applications. I suppose we'd just need to watch to see if we spend a particular stock using a lot of Bair instead of Fair and plan accordingly... or if we happen to get killed while our opponent's at kill confirm range.

It isn't a big concern for us. We have Up Air, B-Air, N-Air and F-Air to kill with, not to mention dash attack, f-tilt, up-tilt.

Name something. It likely isn't a bad kill move at all.

 

[Lily♫]

What is this site talking about when it says there are "robots" online? Something about adding results to browser databases?

That's exactly what it is actually. They're bots for search engines to give proper results.

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

I'm making it a personal goal to find as many of you guys as possible in YouTube comments. So far: San, Rango, Alondite, Cereal Bawks, and Xuan Wu. EDIT: and Lily and Cryptic Storm. I went and watched your guys' videos, too. Ike.

 

[shadowmm151]

So...Abadango posted his personal tier list on Twitter...

I gotta be honest here: does NOBODY in Japan play Ike?

Is the meta that vastly different in Japan? I mean I'm sure there's some bias as he's got MK at 2 and Robin at 15, but there are so many differences. I'm really curious how the meta is there.

 

[Trueblade]

Nojinko is the only Japanese Ike player I can name off the top of my head.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Does anyone know the numbers for Ike's improved knockback on Fair and Nair? I dislike how the 1.1.4 patch thread won't address them.

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-4-patch-notes.430023/

san. or someone here perhaps?

 

[san.]

Does anyone know the numbers for Ike's improved knockback on Fair and Nair? I dislike how the 1.1.4 patch thread won't address them.

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-4-patch-notes.430023/

san. or someone here perhaps?

Damage scales with knockback: (t*d) / 20. t = target damage after the hit. d = damage of the attack.

For fair, it's similar to increasing knockback growth by 8 or base knockback by 10 against an opponent at 100%.
For nair, it's similar to increasing knockback growth by 9 or base knockback by 10 against an opponent at 100%.

However, the actual BKB and KBG values are the same, just the damage is different.

 

[7NATOR]

I got one question for you guys

1. Would you replace Ike With a call of Duty Solider

Of course i wouldn't

what do you guys think

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I got one question for you guys

1. Would you replace Ike With a call of Duty Solider

Of course i wouldn't

what do you guys think

 

[the_muffin]

I got one question for you guys

1. Would you replace Ike With a call of Duty Solider

Of course i wouldn't

what do you guys think

The short answer is no.

The long answer is f*** no.

 

[Mario766]

I got one question for you guys

1. Would you replace Ike With a call of Duty Solider

Of course i wouldn't

what do you guys think

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[Lily♫]

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a review by axman13

 

[Aquasition]

That doesn't sound like Doomguy (whose game has actually appeared on multiple Nintendo consoles lel)...

 

[the_muffin]

If I had to drop one 3rd party character for another, I would drop Sonic in a heartbeat for Doomguy.

And now I'm going to spend the rest of my workday thinking up a hypothetical move set for Doomguy. Awesome.

 

[Arrei]

Me, I'd drop Pac-Man. For anyone. Even Goku and Shrek. Because fighting Pac-Man suuuuuuucks.

Also, Fire Emblem Fates drops this Friday for the US. I'm excited.

Simultaneously sad because it's a work day and the three-day weekend's behind us.

Sadcited.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I want to get to Best Buy early to get FE Fates Special Edition. Sadly, I'm broke as hell.

 

[AbelCor]

My sister had 4 save files on Awakening... she's just obsessed with fire emblem. We bought a physical and download version for it. Apparently, we're downloading both Conquest and Birthright so she can abuse the back-up save feature. Hype, but we have to download both on her 2ds, not my 3ds. Probably won't be playing it for awhile T_T.

I'd replace someone like Cloud (the most loved character in the game) with Zero (Megaman). Blade beam is basically Hadengeki anyways.

 

[Trueblade]

I want to get to Best Buy early to get FE Fates Special Edition. Sadly, I'm broke as hell.

Special Edition has been sold out for months.