Fox's Smash 4 Moveset/Meta Thread

[Xinc]

Fox's Brawl Bair was like the sexiest kill move ever, but you are definitely correct in how hard it was to land.

Again, Fox's exceedingly high skill ceiling in all smash games makes it hard to get an accurate representation of what he is capable of in the limited gameplay we have. We have some promising information about him, but a couple things that are just downright saddening.

I'm going to hold my judgement till release, but I will always main him.

I agree. It's best to hold your judgment until you get your hands on the game. But I feel with the engine, Bair should be easier to get kills with. Maybe u throw to bair might be viable.

 

[pinkdeaf1]

Is his bair still like brawl's?

 

[RPK]

I actually prefer the brawl bair, but thats because I learned how to use it correctly and can land it really easily :x That thing is so great. You can land a lagless version on characters at low percent. And its extremely strong if used as a kill move. If they didnt change that in smash 4, I think that'll be fox's new way of killing with how big of a nerf usmash got as well as the nerf to dair.

Also Fox's fair in brawl was also pretty gdlk, especially on big bodies like bowser, dk, rob, samus, ddd, ganondorf ect. In brawl, you can easily land all 5 hits for 23%, and then combo into another fair for another 23% into an uair for 16%. It was also a legit combo unless they know to DI out of the 2nd fair. And even then you can follow up with a dair since the only way for them to DI is down. In addition to that, jumping and using fair at the same time made him jump up MAD HIGH!!! It was an amazing addition to his recovery. Hell, he could even go under smashville because of that fair recovery. So I'm pretty sad to hear that it no longer hovers like it does in brawl. Thats a big nerf right there to that move.

Since I hear that Dair pops people up, unless theyre going to be in a good amount of hitstun, I personally think this is a nerf. It makes it so Fox can no longer combo into his grab, utilt, jab, or even an down/upsmash which was I think one of his strongest options in brawl and allowed for a lot of set up. With his new dair, it seems like the best option out of it would have to be utilt which still isnt a bad option because of the added hitstun whichll be a pretty good combo starter, just not as great as it was in brawl, or melee. However...Can you combo into another dair from dair because of its ability to pop people up???

Fox's nair...So...Good. Even in brawl...N-airplane!!! Should be one of his best aerials in this game too because of the extreme mobility that it'll give him as well as being able to combo into and out of it while staying safe and on the move.

Uair...Not much to say. It's use should still be the same. Hopefully we'll some new ways to combo into it, or old ways like in melee. Shoutouts to Chillin

Laser...You all know about it. That got nerf'd pretty hard, but with the brawl engine, it kinda deserved it. The only way that I can really see it being used now is by being b-reversed on the ground.

Shine, you can no longer stall...Nerf'd again :/

ILLUSION!!! The buff to this move is pretty godlike. No longer putting Fox in the free fall animation is going to make this one of Fox's go to moves in terms of mobility, as well as maybe even starting up combos. If his Illusion ends up being like Falco's, even without the priority, or spiking ability, thisll definitely end up being one of his best moves, bar none.

My only complaint is that Fox doesnt have the incredibly low kill potential like he did in the other smash games. Its sad knowing that you wont be able to kill Mr.Game and Watch at 80%, or Meta Knight at 83%. You gotta build a little more damage since it looks like the average kill percent is probably going to be around 120-130 for them to be at a reliable kill percentage, but hey thats still really good considering how fast Fox can build up someone's percent if done right.

 

[RPK]

EDIT: nvm double posting :V

 

[tomvoxx]

So Fox got a pallet swap to look like Wolf. Did he get Wolf's moves as custom moves?

 

[Swift Fox]

I've been on the lookout for the custom moves of my main and I've found only two. I still want to see the rest & watch the gameplay footage of them though.

 

[Ffamran]

Is that... Is that a barrel roll, Fire Fox custom?! If it is... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Also, the charge beam or Charge Blaster reminds me of Fox's Blaster in 64.

 

[roymustang1990-]

Bump

So,can we get an update on fox's current known meta? Since loads of video footage has been displayed.

Anyone?

 

[Joanny]

In my modest personal opinion, based on my versus fighting experience and especially SSB one, Fox is not bad at all in sm4sh. Very fast, very nice Nair with almost no landing lag (whereas almost every character have a lot now) and very powerful f-tilt.
Well, he's not as good as in melee but with grain grab nerfs and top tiers nerfs (Hi MetaKnight) he can now climb the up the ladder of the tiers list.

(I'm learning english, sorry for my mistakes. Correct them if you please.)

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Is that... Is that a barrel roll, Fire Fox custom?! If it is... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Also, the charge beam or Charge Blaster reminds me of Fox's Blaster in 64.

It's called Mega Drill. Who knows if it will keep that name in the localization.

 

[roymustang1990-]

In my modest personal opinion, based on my versus fighting experience and especially SSB one, Fox is not bad at all in sm4sh. Very fast, very nice Nair with almost no landing lag (whereas almost every character have a lot now) and very powerful f-tilt.
Well, he's not as good as in melee but with grain grab nerfs and top tiers nerfs (Hi MetaKnight) he can now climb the up the ladder of the tiers list.

(I'm learning english, sorry for my mistakes. Correct them if you please.)

Thanks for recording your finds.i look forward to more substantial information.

 

[Ffamran]

It's called Mega Drill. Who knows if it will keep that name in the localization.

No. IT HAS TO BE CALLED "BARREL ROLL"!

 

[TweetyPurd]

Ive been trying to find out, but i cant find it anywhere
does his shine semi-spike still?
i know you cant cancel it or anything, but can you use it to gimp offstage?

 

[V_x_I_D]

So.. I got the game last night and I guess we can't SHTL anymore?

 

[jr22]

After looking at some smash 4 videos, I noticed the first 2 hits of fox fair spikes, it's really interesting.

 

[fidelis hodie]

After looking at some smash 4 videos, I noticed the first 2 hits of fox fair spikes, it's really interesting.

I definitely need to take this to the lab, I'll do it when I get home. Was playing a lot of fox today, really like how he moves. Just was looking for that extra oomph for surprise (aka a good spike).

 

[Shog]

So Fox got a pallet swap to look like Wolf. Did he get Wolf's moves as custom moves?

One of his custom moves, Side B #3 in Germany is literally called
"Wolf-Illusion": Move slanted up. If you hit Enemy at the right moment, they plummet down.

And Barrel Roll Fox is called Tornado Fox here in Germany.

 

[Woker!]

Hi, im new to smashboards c:
Im a fox main in brawl and I have been using fox in smash 3ds a lot, I just won a torney today with him, hes a great chararacter!!
Fox fair is just amazing, it can combo with almost everything, it can spike now, but the interesting part is that he can make characters bounce (new mechanic in this game with the spikes making people bounce in the ground), so today, I was playing againts a Game and watch, so I fast fall fair, making him bounce, then I use upsmash and killed him, and yes, thats a combo (if they miss tech), it just looked great! I´ll upload a video tomorrow so everyone can see it, I think fox´s fair spike will be important on his meta game.

 

[Woker!]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvLF0PsZvSw
here´s the video, the good part starts at 0:24

 

[jr22]

Thanks for the video, worker. Fair spike seems very useful for fox gameplay.

 

[ProtomanVX]

Picked up Fox as my main. Here's what I think so far.

Even though we can't laser cancel on landing anymore, I still think it's a great tool for just tacking on that extra percent. I think he's best played passive aggressively so far. Running around with lasers to irritate your opponent works really well, and depending on the character, his punishes can be insane. In fatties like D3 and Bowser, punishing a laggy move with Dair > 5-6 uptilts > Upsmash or Fsmash seems godlike. I feel like Dash Attack > Upair is a thing on several members of the cast as well like Pit and Mac. Nair is such a good pressure tool since you can basically shffl it. Once your opponent is >90%, dash into shield > Upsmash OOS is such a good mixup. With how easy OOS Upsmash is to do in this game, it needs to be a staple punish for anyone who hits your shield at higher percents.

EDIT: Yo, Woker, that's insanely hype. Good find!

 

[Woker!]

Thanks ProtomanVX, and you too jr22 :D
yeah, Dair > 5 utilts > fair > upair is just great, mac its kinda hard to me with fox, I always play vs mac in a very defensive play...
btw, has anyone see how side b works? its great! the landing lag its minimal, so you can shorthop buffer sideb to get behind your opponent and do utilt, just dont be predectible with this.

 

[Lightning93]

Good stuff guys. Any idea how to get the consistency on the forward air spike though? Do you cancel it halfway by hitting the ground? I was noticing the same sort of effect happens with Metaknight for his d-tilt lock.

Also, imo standing laser isn't so bad with the option of omega stages now. You can get a lot of standing room and keep shooting lasers on the ground out of shooting in the air. Better than consistent landing lag I guess.

 

[RPK]

Also a great option with standing lasers is the B-reverse grounded laser. That thing is pretty much going to be the new way that Foxes use their laser imo since it helps keep them extremely mobile.

 

[jr22]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FxBBnAn5ky0&feature=youtu.be @ 1:11 fox's fair spike sets up to an ftilt lock. I'm starting to like this fox WAY more than brawl fox.

 

[Lightning93]

Great video. The Bowser may not have been too spectacular but I think it highlights some of Fox's strengths in this game. I guess I've been having trouble with the jab cancels myself but I'm glad to see they're still in the game. The lock was beautiful. It seems like the hardest part of playing Fox is being able to land the kill when you need to. You sort of need to do something stupid to bait a punish imo. I saw him use Firefox offensively lmao.

 

[Gunslinger]

To get kills, I've been fast falling the fair to get the spike hitbox, then if they miss the tech in front of me I'll upsmash. If they land behind I'll up-tilt to up-air.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fox is one of the best characters in the game imo. Right now Little Mac is the only matchup I feel clearly disadvantaged against.

 

[DavemanCozy]

It took me 4 smash games to finally get myself using Fox.

He's actually so good in this game. His moveset is just perfect for shutting down defensive playstyles. I really like his B-air now too, I never got down with the timing of the move in Brawl, it just feels so much better in this game for me. It also helps that the crap that stopped him in Brawl was removed.

I guess his biggest disadvantage would be his falling speed working against him, he still seems to get combo'd harder than other characters of his weight. I think this is why Little Mac is so bad for him, he can follow up on Fox more easily than other characters.

 

[Lightning93]

To get kills, I've been fast falling the fair to get the spike hitbox, then if they miss the tech in front of me I'll upsmash. If they land behind I'll up-tilt to up-air.

I feel like this is a good option but I feel very uncomfortable with the ensuing landing lag against responsive players. I'd rather throw out bair than fair ya feel me? I guess it would be a great option to shutdown air approaches.

Right now Little Mac is the only matchup I feel clearly disadvantaged against.

I guess his biggest disadvantage would be his falling speed working against him, he still seems to get combo'd harder than other characters of his weight. I think this is why Little Mac is so bad for him, he can follow up on Fox more easily than other characters.

Additionally, a lot of our quick hit punishes are either straight beat out or fail to cause a pop-up while he's on the ground. Little Mac definitely has better tools than we do on the ground, and where we could normally get opponents up in the air for some juggles I don't think we have a consistent way of forcing Little Mac into the same spot with the same degree of ease. Fox is still that awkward combo of fall-fast semi-lightweight that can make badly played big-body matchups so dumb. I lost to the worst Ganon today by getting schmacked with that Forward Smash at 80% but hey it happens. Little Mac's KO punch tears through everything so be wary. In older games we could have forced the upper hand through laser cancels but Little Mac is too quick for standing lasers here imo.

 

[Shaya]

Hey wanted to ask/discuss,
but I only just noticed that with Falco if you change his laser to a different special, they also change how his throws work (up/back/down throw).

Have any of the foxes noted this before? I'm not sure how it would effect Fox (I know he has two lasers that are fatter right?), but with Falco, his large/slow explosive laser gives less knockback on his throws (and no straying lasers to knock people in weird directions), making them easier to follow up from.

 

[Gunslinger]

I feel like this is a good option but I feel very uncomfortable with the ensuing landing lag against responsive players. I'd rather throw out bair than fair ya feel me? I guess it would be a great option to shutdown air approaches.

Additionally, a lot of our quick hit punishes are either straight beat out or fail to cause a pop-up while he's on the ground. Little Mac definitely has better tools than we do on the ground, and where we could normally get opponents up in the air for some juggles I don't think we have a consistent way of forcing Little Mac into the same spot with the same degree of ease. Fox is still that awkward combo of fall-fast semi-lightweight that can make badly played big-body matchups so dumb. I lost to the worst Ganon today by getting schmacked with that Forward Smash at 80% but hey it happens. Little Mac's KO punch tears through everything so be wary. In older games we could have forced the upper hand through laser cancels but Little Mac is too quick for standing lasers here imo.

You're definitely right, landing the SH fair is super risky against players who know how to tech.

Little Mac I think is definitely one of Fox's harder match ups. The best way to fight him is to imagine him like Melee's Falco. Insane onstage presence, but spawns at death percent. I haven't fought any good Little Macs, but generally every Little Mac has a preferred option for approach, be it dash attack, side b, or jab. Once you find out what it is you have to exploit it. Also once you get Little Mac in the air you have to keep him there or you're gonna get upsmashed/KO punched. Just make sure not to overextend your combos, as counter-happy Little Mac's will take the stock for your over-aggression. I've found nair/bair to be the best tools for edgegaurding Mac. Fair works for combos, but I'd be very careful with using it, as a misspaced one will get you severely punished.

 

[Lightning93]

I think in general that sounds like a great way to approach the matchup. I've only myself played one exceptional Little Mac and it was rough all over. I was getting read and shut down left and right. Counter-ready Little Mac's will predict the juggle so try baiting it first before continuing your offense. I think we need to explore this matchup a bit more.

 

[RPK]

I play a whole lotta little mac when not playing Fox. Im serious when I say get under him. His counter, when set off, is an uppercut that sends him horizontally. Its fast and it covers quite a bit of space even when done from the air. However, it also activates even if he gets hit from underneath him sending him the same way each time. Ive actually gimped myself from using counter a few times. And it has a decent amount of recovery at the end if it whiffs. So the best way to go about it against little mac is to D-throw, and juggle with a properly spaced Uair to make it so that if he does counter you won't get punished for it.

 

[Krysco]

Was messing around and found a neat little trick that might have some use. If you have Impact Blaster and do a bthrow you can force them to get up by shooting a laser right after. They can tech the landing and probably double jump too but even if they tech, the laser hits (unless they have a really big tech roll I guess) If bthrow > Impact Blaster connects you can follow up with pretty much anything: dash attack, dash grab, another laser, running usmash, Fox Illusion, short hop fair, nair or dair, rar bair, pivot grab, pivot ftilt. If you're not doing one of the pivot options you gotta wait a fraction of a second otherwise you get there too fast (I whiffed a lot of grabs getting there too fast).

I tested it on a level 3 Falco, a level 9 Puff and a level 9 and 8 Dedede. It worked on Falco fine and Dedede but the level 9 one always teched away (laser still hit though but no forced get up). Didn't hit the Puff at all and the laser stopped reaching the Falco around 100% and the level 8 Dedede teching away around 80% but a skilled player would get out much earlier if hit at all (also gotta consider vectoring which could mess this whole thing up).

Seems very iffy but if you get it at low percents you could possibly do something crazy like bthrow > laser > sh ff fair > utilt or whatever else you can think of.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Grab range has been nerfed for a lot of characters in this game. I can definitey feel a major difference for Fox. Jab and Fsmash are going to be very important options to cover Fox' front on the ground.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Here's my experience against this ground terror known as Little Mac:

Mac is very, very fast on the ground. This usually isn't a problem for Fox: I find he can go even against characters like Captain Falcon, Greninja, and even Sheik. So what is the problem with Mac? It's all about his much more superior ground game: you can't afford to approach him with anything. His priority + armor in his moves + slip counter are really good at shutting down any rush down options Fox has. His rolls are fast and long enough to give him good options out of them too.

I find myself playing this matchup much more campy than I normally do. I prefer to pile on damage with hit-and-run strategies rather than rushing him down. Now, I would be wary of lasers: they still work to pile on damage, but smart Little Mac players just don't care about lasers and run after you to punish the gun's lag. Instead, what I'm talking about hit-and-run is:

1. Retreating N-airs
2. Dash back -> pivot F-tilt
   
3. Dash Attack -> run away (if counter happy)
   
4. Dash past him -> pivot grab (this takes a hard read, but the payoff can be wonderful)

From a grab, D-throw is really good in center stage because it pops him in the air and let's you follow up with a F-air. And if he's at KO percent, you can even follow his trajectory and get him with an Up-smash. Up-air and B-air absolutely destroy him too. His weight and falling speed actually set him up very well for Fox to combo him.

It may be a little boring at the end of the day, but I feel like you really need to play very campy and bait Mac to win this one. You force Little Mac to play your game: don't play his game by rushing at him, he does that better and he will beat you at it. If anything, I think this matchup is slightly in Mac's favor, but I think Fox has the tools to deal with him. Fox definitely needs to put in a lot of effort though.

IMO, I think that ZSS, Yoshi and Rosalina all give Fox a hard time, but Mac is definetely the hardest one of his matchups in my experience.

 

[SmashFox]

I don't think Mac is a hard MU from what I have played.

 

[Lightning93]

I don't think Mac is a hard MU from what I have played.

Anything specific that would lend some insight as to why the MU isn't very hard for you?

 

[Shaya]

Think of it like this. Both characters have very potent close range options, but obviously Mac tends to come out on top. The very usable 1 frame jab, 3 frame dtilt and 4 frame ftilt proves this.

Now at mid range, capabilities are a bit more neutral, if not looking favourable to Fox. Mac's mid range options are a lot more gimmicky and easier to react to and they basically all lose to jump or roll away (although you wouldn't really want to roll away much). Mac has a poor dash to shield (frame wise), and a very poor dash grab and shield grab. He doesn't have any applicable jump options and his evasiveness comes down to forward rolling into you through the dash or backrolling away again to bait you into his close range combat.

Why does Fox have it any different? He has a standard shield grab, likely still the fastest dash to shield in the game (from Brawl, could be wrong, but it's likely still in the top caste), a powerful mid range punish tool with extreme positional advantage on success in dash attack, and dash grab for when they start to feel pressured into shield. You can still use rolls as cross over mix ups and jump aerials as well. All of this from mid range in a way that is reactable to Little Mac, where you don't have to respect his grab or dash to shield like you would against other characters.

Abuse Fox's diversity in options and mobility to go tip to toe with Mac, while primarily playing neutral at middle range (I always think of this as about 3 swords lengths away [as a Marth main]).

I haven't personally played Fox in the match up, but have done so with Falco numerous times. Falco's normals/ground game are really really strong, allowing him to 1-up Mac in close range combat a lot of the time, and otherwise is still pretty good at mid range; but Fox is A LOT better at mid range than Falco and that's Mac's design weakness. I have no issues getting Mac into the air and murdering him with Falco, relying heavily on grabs when I'm in an advantageous position to just ... never give Mac any opportunities (counter, lol).