Fox's Smash 4 Moveset/Meta Thread

[JDE]

He was like a bit of a downgrade in brawl opposed to Melee. My friend told me about him whenever I started learning more of the game's mechanics in Brawl. Some people I've seen do work with him though. Still fairly solid. I hope he isn't nerfed like was in Brawl :/.

 

[Rhus]

You're right on his F-Smash, my mistake. I was deceived by the apparent range of the attack.

He does seem to fall faster, yes. I'm also skeptical of all the footage as we know some of it has been from previous trailers meaning it's not all from the most recent build of the game. Trying to pin-point what is...well, that's another story entirely. However, over-all I've noticed that Fox falls faster than he did in Brawl (Pit too. That guy falls like a rock in some scenes).

I don't personally think Fox needed a lot of move-set adjustments. IMO, the physics and mechanics of Brawl hurt him more than anything with his move-set did.

Also, Welcome to the Boards.

Yeah, the Fsmash looks longer, and faster, so they may be balancing his smashes out, because in Brawl, his Dsmash and Usmash were superb but his Fsmash...was not. It wasn't unusable, but it slowed Fox down too much for a reward that wasn't all that great.

I hope they increase his gravity slightly, make it so he doesn't get wrecked by grabs like in Brawl but still combo food to balance his incredibly slippery movements. My biggest fear with Fox is them slowing him down, but I know Sakurai identifies Fox as "the speed character" of smash bros, so I doubt he will be.

Fox is overall fine in Brawl, he was high mid tier if I recall correctly and was still fairly potent. I understand people say he was nerfed too much, but honestly he was alright in Brawl, but Sakurai really needs to make sure he doesn't get 0-death grabbed by some characters. As long as they increase his gravity and maybe do something with his illusion (as it sits, Fox is the only space animal without a unique illusion, Falco's meteors and Wolf's is entirely different) I'll be happy.

Thanks for the welcome! I've been lurking the Smashboards for some time and just recently thought I should finally start posting. I don't have much of any competitive experience (though I try to improve and practice), so I hesitate posting anything.

 

[JDE]

Lol I personally prefer the Arwing as a final smash, but the Landmaster is fine too. TBH though, even if he was bad, I would still try to find a way to make him work. It'll be interesting to see how he turns up. Luckily, he wasn't bad at all in those games. I do like that he has a reflector to go along with his fast movements. Imo, it's one of his best special tools.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Yeah, the Fsmash looks longer, and faster, so they may be balancing his smashes out, because in Brawl, his Dsmash and Usmash were superb but his Fsmash...was not. It wasn't unusable, but it slowed Fox down too much for a reward that wasn't all that great.

I hope they increase his gravity slightly, make it so he doesn't get wrecked by grabs like in Brawl but still combo food to balance his incredibly slippery movements. My biggest fear with Fox is them slowing him down, but I know Sakurai identifies Fox as "the speed character" of smash bros, so I doubt he will be.

Fox is overall fine in Brawl, he was high mid tier if I recall correctly and was still fairly potent. I understand people say he was nerfed too much, but honestly he was alright in Brawl, but Sakurai really needs to make sure he doesn't get 0-death grabbed by some characters. As long as they increase his gravity and maybe do something with his illusion (as it sits, Fox is the only space animal without a unique illusion, Falco's meteors and Wolf's is entirely different) I'll be happy.

Thanks for the welcome! I've been lurking the Smashboards for some time and just recently thought I should finally start posting. I don't have much of any competitive experience (though I try to improve and practice), so I hesitate posting anything.

The Japan time podcast showed a comparison of foxes falling speed in brawl,pm,melee,and smash 4. It's a bit slower than melee but a lot faster than brawl.

Sorry I forgot what episode

 

[Shun_one]

Yeah, the Fsmash looks longer, and faster, so they may be balancing his smashes out, because in Brawl, his Dsmash and Usmash were superb but his Fsmash...was not. It wasn't unusable, but it slowed Fox down too much for a reward that wasn't all that great.

I hope they increase his gravity slightly, make it so he doesn't get wrecked by grabs like in Brawl but still combo food to balance his incredibly slippery movements. My biggest fear with Fox is them slowing him down, but I know Sakurai identifies Fox as "the speed character" of smash bros, so I doubt he will be.

Fox is overall fine in Brawl, he was high mid tier if I recall correctly and was still fairly potent. I understand people say he was nerfed too much, but honestly he was alright in Brawl, but Sakurai really needs to make sure he doesn't get 0-death grabbed by some characters. As long as they increase his gravity and maybe do something with his illusion (as it sits, Fox is the only space animal without a unique illusion, Falco's meteors and Wolf's is entirely different) I'll be happy.

Thanks for the welcome! I've been lurking the Smashboards for some time and just recently thought I should finally start posting. I don't have much of any competitive experience (though I try to improve and practice), so I hesitate posting anything.

I do find the changes to F-Smash interesting. As you said, it's not a very viable part of his move-set in Brawl so it looks like they're addressing that.

I'm hoping that all 0-death easy to do chain-grabs are a thing of the past. It hurt the game way too much when several characters could be insta-KO'ed from a simple grab. From what we've seen thus far, looks like his illusion doesn't have much to it. At least from what we've seen in the Direct there doesn't seem to be much to it. There's still a chance it holds some secrets that aren't immediately apparent.

Enjoy the boards. I'm not much of a competitive player myself, but I do enjoy the finer aspects of Smash game-play.

Lol I personally prefer the Arwing as a final smash, but the Landmaster is fine too. TBH though, even if he was bad, I would still try to find a way to make him work. It'll be interesting to see how he turns up. Luckily, he wasn't bad at all in those games. I do like that he has a reflector to go along with his fast movements. Imo, it's one of his best special tools.

I'm curious if they'll consider switching up his Final Smash to the Arwing, but I figure that seems more of a Falco thing ("Personally, I prefer the air!"). I'm an odd-ball in that I enjoy playing low-tier's in general. I tend to just choose who I like and make it work as best I can regardless of how well they actually fair as a fighter. He may not be listed as my main, but I play Fox in every Smash game. This one will be no different.

 

[Rhus]

The Japan time podcast showed a comparison of foxes falling speed in brawl,pm,melee,and smash 4. It's a bit slower than melee but a lot faster than brawl.

Sorry I forgot what episode

Thanks for this! I actually found it with very little effort, it's episode 19, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQqf9-LQFh8, at 59:34.

This is really, really good. His gravity has been increased from Brawl, quite significantly.

EDIT: In addition, it looks like Fox retains his high double jump from Brawl.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

I wonder if foxes jab is going to pop people up like it did in smash64, and melee.
Luma's does( from rosalina trailer )

So I hope fox gets it back to his move set.

 

[Shun_one]

We haven't seen Fox connect with a jab, have we? It will be interesting to see how his new jab finisher factors into his game, now that I think about it. Though, I imagine it won't see a ton of use compared to the other moves in his arsenal.

 

[Rhus]

We haven't seen Fox connect with a jab, have we? It will be interesting to see how his new jab finisher factors into his game, now that I think about it. Though, I imagine it won't see a ton of use compared to the other moves in his arsenal.

Not that I recall. The jab finishers are literally just an attack chained into his rapid kicks after a set number, correct? I heard people talking about them like they are actual kill moves but I doubt that.

Anyway, in the direct, Sakurai showed us his full jab combo(not hitting anyone, just in the character roll at the end), Fox's jab combo is still two punches, a set of somewhere around 5 kicks, and then a finishing Roundhouse kick of sorts, as we saw in that Miiverse pic. I could see this being pretty useful for Fox if his Dair still leads to jabs. It could mean instead of opting for Dair>Jab cancelled Grab>Fthrow he could actually just Dair>Jab combo. The Jab combo would probably do greater damage than the Fthrow and likely still send them a distance off stage. In addition, if the finishing hit has enough strength to knock shielding characters too far away to shield grab punish, this could be a major buff to Fox's approaching game as well as his already amazing defensive play.

Now I'm hyped for the jab combo.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Also, his jab seems to work just how it did in melee. Cause in melee you could tap A twice quickly and not be forced into the rapid kicks, and in the direct fox does the first two jabs quickly in the wii fit trainer segment. In brawl pressing A twice quickly would force you into the rapid kick, you have to press A slowly to perform the first two jabs.
I have a strong feeling the pop up effect will return too.

Also, the jab looks awesome.

 

[Rhus]

Gah, I fanboy everywhere whenever I see a screenshot of Fox.

Is it super important that the jabs knock upwards? Just curious, because I didn't think it was a huge deal, unless it means they can't shield in between hits, which makes sense.

 

[Shun_one]

I'm not too knowledgeable on the uses of the jab, but I'd imagine you can do some neat things with it combo wise. I'm hoping the combo finishers of the jab strings have some decent knock-back for combo ending purposes. As was pointed out, D-air -> jab combo would be a pretty nice combination. If the end-lag isn't too bad, perhaps you could even extend a combo beyond the finisher under the right circumstances.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Gah, I fanboy everywhere whenever I see a screenshot of Fox.

Is it super important that the jabs knock upwards? Just curious, because I didn't think it was a huge deal, unless it means they can't shield in between hits, which makes sense.

It's not super important overall, it just makes jab a quick, low range combo starter

 

[Rhus]

Just watched some E3 gameplay videos and found out that Fox's shine does indeed still hit on activation, there was some doubt of it in the direct when it didn't hit Toon Link.

I'll post more as I see it/edit this post.

 

[Dragonboy2k4]

Ehh no one notice in the Invitational Tournament that Down-Air on the final hit pop's the oppponent up now? Thats a nerf towards Brawl's Down-Air to up smash I think..

 

[Rhus]

I saw that. It looks like another nerf to Fox. :<

 

[FlynnCL]

Woah, up smash got nerfed, up air appears even further nerfed and that down air is really questionable.

 

[Rhus]

Well.

Usmash, Uair, Dair, Shine and lasers nerfed.

Bye McCloud, don't worry, I'll still main you. ;(

 

[Starcutter]

wonder what this is (it's taken from treehouse stream)

 

[Rhus]

^ I saw that, and was really weirded out because it is a customizable moveset thing, but has Charge Blaster on his up special?

Later, I just saw something similar with Kirby, having an item called Hammer Smash (Down Special) or something.

Really strange.

 

[Swift Fox]

Perhaps it's something we saw that Donkey Kong can overcome Little Mac's punching attacks with his forward special (headbutt)?

Never mind, I noticed "Charge blaster" then I disregarded "Blaster" part as I noticed "(Up special)" part thinking it's about Fire Fox.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I think the Dair change is pretty good. You have an option to sh Dair and fastfall to get the up smash or not fast fall and get the pop up that could potentially lead to another aerial or tilt at a low percent.

In addition to that you have the multi hit finisher which seems chain able at low and mid percents with it's hitstun, I feel like some things are nerfed to provide more ground options for fox, like having a super fast f-tilt to trade or stuff things.

 

[Rhus]

You might be right, @ E Eternal phoenix Fire

Fox's tilts seem to have been buffed but I haven't seen his Dtilt yet.

The biggest thing I don't want changed is his movement and attack speed, but from the looks of things this is largely unchanged and/or improved except for maybe the removal of laser cancelling which hinders his mobility by quite a significant margin, but it is possible that it has not been implemented yet and/or the timing is different.

I remember from the Brawl demo people thought Fox lost his laser cancelling as well, but it ended up being included.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Reminder for you Fox dudes:

ALERT: Fox sideb supposedly no longer causes him to go into special-fall

Here is an example of no-special-fall Fox sideb. Use Youtube's slowdown feature at max slow if you need to; you can clearly see he spins out into his regular falling animation and even changes his momentum, while having no recovery on landing (easiest confirmation of no special-fall). His upB retains his "freefalling-like" animation, which is his special-fall. (Greninja can also act after sideb, and even do another sideb, so Fox may be able to do two illusions)

Question is, what can Fox do after sideB, if not upB and/or airdodge?

0m56s

 

[Mr.Random]

Fox felt really bad when I played him. He's kinda meh. He wasn't broken in Brawl so why nerf him again?

 

[Rhus]

Fox felt really bad when I played him. He's kinda meh. He wasn't broken in Brawl so why nerf him again?

Can you elaborate, perhaps?

ie. what felt bad, why etc.

Not doubting, his nerfs looked pretty harsh.

 

[Mr.Random]

Can you elaborate, perhaps?

ie. what felt bad, why etc.

Not doubting, his nerfs looked pretty harsh.

Well I couldn't really land a KO move due to the dair being different. Up air is pathetically weak now so that won't kill. Up smash is harder to land and only slightly weaker (it still has good power when fresh). Shine and Lasers have to much lag now so his defensive game is bad. Hoping they fix these. I tried to laser cancel so many times but it just didn't work.

 

[Blackrider213]

I saw in the Nintendo Treehouse vid that Fox's illusion, when starting on a platform, will now stop at the end of the platform instead of going all the way off. I guess they designed this to prevent accidental deaths off of ledges.

 

[Rhus]

Well I couldn't really land a KO move due to the dair being different. Up air is pathetically weak now so that won't kill. Up smash is harder to land and only slightly weaker (it still has good power when fresh). Shine and Lasers have to much lag now so his defensive game is bad. Hoping they fix these. I tried to laser cancel so many times but it just didn't work.

Thanks for the input.

Do you think that his Uair was changed to have lower knockback so he can juggle with it better now? As in, is it usable for that?

Nice to hear Usmash hasn't been wrecked, it looked like it killed fairly well on everyone but Megaman, so I assume Megaman is just heavier than we suspect.

I'm still really bitter about the changes to his Shine and laser and hope they are fixed in the final version. Did you by chance try single lasers to see if those cancel?

 

[Mr.Random]

Thanks for the input.

Do you think that his Uair was changed to have lower knockback so he can juggle with it better now? As in, is it usable for that?

Nice to hear Usmash hasn't been wrecked, it looked like it killed fairly well on everyone but Megaman, so I assume Megaman is just heavier than we suspect.

I'm still really bitter about the changes to his Shine and laser and hope they are fixed in the final version. Did you by chance try single lasers to see if those cancel?

I think single laser did cancel but that would only work on big characters which is why it's so bad right now. Up air would be an amazing juggling tool if you couldn't airdodge out of hitstun. Considering how fast and easy his up smash is to land. I'm fine with it being slightly toned done just as long as it's not garbage like Mario's.

 

[Rhus]

I think single laser did cancel but that would only work on big characters which is why it's so bad right now. Up air would be an amazing juggling tool if you couldn't airdodge out of hitstun. Considering how fast and easy his up smash is to land. I'm fine with it being slightly toned done just as long as it's not garbage like Mario's.

I kind of figured that was the case, pretty unfortunate, but at least it's something.

I thought hitstun cancel was removed in Smash 4? Wasn't that confirmed?

And yeah, I don't mind Fox's Usmash being reduced in power slightly, but Fox does need a strong kill move to compensate for his awful weight and severe vulnerability to getting knocked sideways due to his fast falling speed.

 

[Mr.Random]

I kind of figured that was the case, pretty unfortunate, but at least it's something.

I thought hitstun cancel was removed in Smash 4? Wasn't that confirmed?

And yeah, I don't mind Fox's Usmash being reduced in power slightly, but Fox does need a strong kill move to compensate for his awful weight and severe vulnerability to getting knocked sideways due to his fast falling speed.

That's the issue. His up smash was his ONLY reliable kill move in Brawl.

 

[FlynnCL]

Well, that's that. Even over 100% it's the same.

 

[SpaceJell0]

Thanks for the input.

Do you think that his Uair was changed to have lower knockback so he can juggle with it better now? As in, is it usable for that?

Nice to hear Usmash hasn't been wrecked, it looked like it killed fairly well on everyone but Megaman, so I assume Megaman is just heavier than we suspect.

I'm still really bitter about the changes to his Shine and laser and hope they are fixed in the final version. Did you by chance try single lasers to see if those cancel?

Actually Mega Man is around Mario's weight surprisingly from what I played in the demo, but Fox's USmash still killed me fairly easily in the demo match with my friends (the one who used Fox has mained him before in PM, Brawl, and Melee)

 

[Portanix]

Am I the only one who hates Fox's F-Air? I would have apreciated it if the finally changed it to a move that was not completely useless in the air ( taking out shorthop-fair). It is extremely dangerous to use in any situation and is really just freaking annoying.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Am I the only one who hates Fox's F-Air? I would have apreciated it if the finally changed it to a move that was not completely useless in the air ( taking out shorthop-fair). It is extremely dangerous to use in any situation and is really just freaking annoying.

Yea as an attack it is really awkward, but it does help with recovery some.

If I want to hit in front of me while in the air usually I just use N-air.

 

[Rhus]

Am I the only one who hates Fox's F-Air? I would have apreciated it if the finally changed it to a move that was not completely useless in the air ( taking out shorthop-fair). It is extremely dangerous to use in any situation and is really just freaking annoying.

The move is a little strange, a character with super high falling speed requiring the target to remain in front of Fox for the duration, but Brawl largely fixed this and made it one of his better aerials. It autocancels and was safe on shield when space properly if I recall correctly. In Melee/PM it was never all that useful, but Fair>dashing Usmash worked on some characters, but that's about it.

I wouldn't mind it being changed though, but the assist to recovery is nice.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Good thing N-air looks identical to brawl.

 

[Xinc]

Maybe the stronger Up air got given to Falco ::

But in all due seriousness, Fox does look nerfed. Maybe he has some interruptibility frames or he can cancel his drill. Bear in mind, he doesn't have to land the last hit of the dair drill (that would send the person flying). and he might be able to interrupt it into a shine/up smash? Hopefully, his bair gets some viability though. Brawl's engine was really, really, REALLY difficult to get the bair kill.

 

[Rhus]

Maybe the stronger Up air got given to Falco ::

But in all due seriousness, Fox does look nerfed. Maybe he has some interruptibility frames or he can cancel his drill. Bear in mind, he doesn't have to land the last hit of the dair drill (that would send the person flying). and he might be able to interrupt it into a shine/up smash? Hopefully, his bair gets some viability though. Brawl's engine was really, really, REALLY difficult to get the bair kill.

Fox's Brawl Bair was like the sexiest kill move ever, but you are definitely correct in how hard it was to land.

Again, Fox's exceedingly high skill ceiling in all smash games makes it hard to get an accurate representation of what he is capable of in the limited gameplay we have. We have some promising information about him, but a couple things that are just downright saddening.

I'm going to hold my judgement till release, but I will always main him.