Fox patch 1.10 changes

[roymustang1990-]

Anyone find anything?

 

[AvengerV]

Fox's jab infinite got removed. Complete BS if you ask me. They nerf Fox for no reason and he wasn't even a problem in the metagame.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I'm just surprised they didn't patch it out sooner

EDIT: Also shining airborne opponents now sends them at a more diagonal angle. Not quite a shine spike but there may be some use to this.

 

[Hom3fly]

Those dirty ********. I always said if they patched double jab I'd quit the character. The Ness matchup is our new worst enemy. I'm freaking out
where's our kill throw

 

[Comorant]

I'm more worried about the loss of Jab to Up Smash, Fox is gonna drop pretty hard in viability without that Kill Setup.

 

[Rhus]

Well I'm hoping there's a buff somewhere to at least help him out.

 

[DeathlyFerret]

The jab combo was patched out?
Well, there goes hours of experimentation and practice.

 

[Rhus]

The jab combo was patched out?
Well, there goes hours of experimentation and practice.

Pretty much this. I spent a long time getting Jab>Jab>turnaround Utilt down. I'm pretty bloody upset they got rid of that.

 

[FlynnCL]

I knew they'd do it.

Not just taking away the jab cancels, I knew they'd give him a pointless shine buff to compensate.

 

[M@v]

-Jab 2 knockback significantly increased, which kills the double jab combo.

Im like 90% sure the timeframe jab two automatically goes into rapid jab has lengthened significantly as well.

I think Upb is much easier to DI out of as well. Either that or the sweetspot seems much smaller. If that's the case, RIP firefox kills.

Can other people test shine for me? I think it may have a gotten a slight knockback buff. Still feels like frame 6 though.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

I've read bair has less startup, any confirmation?

 

[M@v]

I've read bair has less startup, any confirmation?

Seems the same to me; it was already his second fastest aerial to begin with, so we may need to wait for the frame data to see if that's true.

 

[Virgule]

The datas are out : http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/fox.html (thanks to dantarion).
Changes on what seems to be jab 2 and 3 and another change whatever it might be.

 

[Steam]

well getting jab infinited across the stage is pretty lame. no one should be surprised it got taken away.

 

[Hom3fly]

Literally jabbing them from one side to another did like ~25% and that's without DI, messing up, or the character being able to escape
It reallllly wasnt that bad

 

[Nysyr]

Literally jabbing them from one side to another did like ~25% and that's without DI, messing up, or the character being able to escape
It reallllly wasnt that bad

It was character dependent, and your timing was probably off.

 

[Hom3fly]

There are very few who got infinited at low percents, Ness, Lucas, Wario, Bowser Jr etc
Im saying it didnt do much damage either way
Most damage came from downsmash at the ledge
One less kill option for a character who already struggles to kill

 

[Logo12]

So... This is what Nintendo call "balancing"?

 

[ZeroJanitor]

^You act surprised that they'd patch out something that can basically trap your opponents for long periods of time

The dev team doesn't think about the fact that people use this combo to make up for his lack of kill confirms, they just see it as an unfair tactic that makes life for the other player very unfun.

 

[Luig]

I tried fox with the double jab combo and he seems less... fun. He loses his combos into kills and part of his main viability. They could have made it so it set up a kill, but you couldn't infinite it.

 

[leesinger]

You guys are aware that fox shine was hugely buffed right? you can now actually gimp people offstage ala melee.

 

[Luig]

Yes, but it doesn't make up for combos into kills.

 

[RATED]

Ugh, this is probably how mortal kombat guys feel every week

 

[colinies]

This really sucks bad, it's not just the jab combo but it's everything it leads into. It really helped control the pace of the game and combo'd into so many variations for big damage. Welp, time to get more creative....I guess.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

I've seen some Fox's do Jab 1-2 Upsmash, let's hope that's still a thing. (also, Jab 1-2 into turn around up-tilt still kind of works.)

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Shine spike can stage spike. <333333 Sucks about the jab nerf, but I think we can still get a dash attack off of it or it might just be a mixup situation idk. So many people are bad at getting out of combos in Smash 4, so it's hard to tell off of it's success sometiems.

 

[Indefinite Minimum]

The reason for this nerf probably has a lot to do with For Glory. I can imagine that a lot of new players would face a good fox, get jab locked across the stage and KO'd before they knew what was going on. Smash is meant to appeal to everyone, even low level players, so it isn't surprising that something so frustrating for them to deal with got patched out.

 

[tronfox64]

I'm going to get hounded for this, but Shine feels like its coming out on frame freaking 1, and his jab connects with its finisher properly now. Also, If his jab2 > dash attack turns out to be a true combo, then I honestly see him having many more extremely early kill setups. Jab1 > Jab2 > Dash Attack > Uair starts to kill sheik at around 88% without any rage at all.

(Just do technique where you flick > + for very quick dash attacks)

If all this is true, then this feels like it really gives fox some new tools.

 

[Hubbles]

Can anyone confirm this? https://twitter.com/Gr_kra327/status/626954455179730945

Seems amazing if that actually works.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Heard that requires some pretty specific spacing on the jab, but haven't tried it myself.

 

[Rhus]

Yeah, you need to hit with the tip of his jabs from my experience, that way they don't touch the ground before you get the hyphen smash off.

 

[colinies]

Can anyone confirm this? https://twitter.com/Gr_kra327/status/626954455179730945

Seems amazing if that actually works.

Can someone explain what's even happening in this video? Seems like a different up smash animation

 

[MarioMeteor]

I think I heard shofu's heart breaking.

 

[colinies]

I'm going to get hounded for this, but Shine feels like its coming out on frame freaking 1, and his jab connects with its finisher properly now. Also, If his jab2 > dash attack turns out to be a true combo, then I honestly see him having many more extremely early kill setups. Jab1 > Jab2 > Dash Attack > Uair starts to kill sheik at around 88% without any rage at all.

(Just do technique where you flick > + for very quick dash attacks)

If all this is true, then this feels like it really gives fox some new tools.

This could also lead into angled downward Fair > Up Smash, nice find

 

[Mister M]

I was messing about on training, and i think you can still do jab 2>Jump cancel'd upsmash pretty fine
Also, i seemed to struggle to cancel the Jab2 into grab, but i was never able to do that 100% consistently so it may be placebo.
Either way, i managed to do Jab 2> Dash grabs/Cross up Pivot grabs to remedy it. It doesn't sound like anyone else had problems with this though so w/e.

Also, i tried adding perfect pivots to link the jabs back together and while extremely hard (have to pp then turn around to face the right way consistently) i might actually be working. I'll be honest though, i'm hardly diligent when it comes to checking how true any of these things were. I got no one to test with but CPU dummies.

But the jab 2> dash attack seems legit.

 

[Foster J.]

The fact you have to hit the tip of the jab to get them to go upwards is hard, it's just like with Dtilt's tipper will send them upwards. **** Sakurai, we still don't have a throw combo that's guaranteed cause they can just DI Dthrow after all.

well getting jab infinited across the stage is pretty lame. no one should be surprised it got taken away.

It was insanely character specific, and you just had to DI upwards as Lucario, though yes, hard to escape.
Fox could jabjab Lucario, but Lucario just needed rage to kill Fox, so really, what can we do against Lucario now?

 

[Hom3fly]

More importantly WHAT CAN WE DO TO NESS NOW
THAT WAS OUR ONLY GOOD HIGH TIER MATCHUP WHYYYYY

 

[Tenretsujin10]

More importantly WHAT CAN WE DO TO NESS NOW
THAT WAS OUR ONLY GOOD HIGH TIER MATCHUP WHYYYYY

Maaaaaan, did you see that NAKAT vs Larry Lurr crew battle match at EVO?!?!

 

[Bullys]

Not crazy about the changes, but I guess it makes sense - Nintendo seem to want less of the "whelp you can't do anything" in Smash 4 (for the most part). Like someone mentioned Fox wasn't a problem in the metagame at all, and in reality was a pretty balanced character even with the jab - maybe their logic was they sort of gave a buff in the shine to offset it - but its really not comparable.

What do people feel like this will do to impact Fox, their play and his place in the metagame?

*edit* couple more finds since I posted this - laser lag is pretty interesting.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

They buffed his lasers by reducing endlag, It looks like Fox's Jab 1-2 have a sourspot and sweetspot regarding knockback: The sweetspot (tip of the 2nd jab) launches them at an upwards angle, allowing hyphen upsmash. The sourspot (not the tip of the 2nd jab) launches them horizontally away.

In terms of gameplay, Fox's jabs can still be used to setup combos, just removing a few options like Jab Jab Downsmash.