"Fox is too easy to play"

[666blaziken]

This. This is what I hear for the main reason why melee fox mains don't want to play project m. Honestly, a lot of people who play melee say that the game is too easy to be good in, and usually, they main fox. My question is... Why do people consider that a bad thing? As someone who specializes in playing platform games, I think that making fox easier to do tech skill with is one of the best things that pmbr has done. Take megaman x, contra 3, and super castlevania. Those games are often considered the best games in their respective series. Why is that, despite having gameplay mechanics similer to past games, they are considered superior? Lots of things actually, but as avgn had once said about castlevania 4, "you feel you're in perfect control" with project m, I feel that I can use fox better than ever because I feel like I am in better control. But my other friends are using this as a way to say that because he is easier, he is too good, and that is why melee is better than project m. Does anybody else find it silly that they would WANT to make him more clunky, and harder to use because that was how he was in melee? Because he is so hard to use in melee, m2k and mango both suffer from finger pain, and because he is harder to use, fox can only be used to his full potential by top players. The attitude that he is "too easy" represents a melee elitism, and that mentality turns people off.
I challenge people to give me a reason why fox being less clunky, have less room for mistakes, and overall a more fun character to play because you die less from control Imputs, and more because the opponent outplayed you and knows the matchup better, is bad game design WITHOUT using the words "because that was how he was in melee". If people can explain to me why having fox easier to play as is bad smash design, then I will suggest to pmbr, that they should focus on making fox a harder character to use in order to improve on project m's game design.

 

[Foxy K]

Because some people think that him being hard to play is the balancing factor. He's godlike but dies to just one of his own mistakes.

But a PM Fox will still make mistakes, and they got rid of braindead invincibility on shine. I'm with you.

 

[666blaziken]

Because some people think that him being hard to play is the balancing factor. He's godlike but dies to just one of his own mistakes.

But a PM Fox will still make mistakes, and they got rid of braindead invincibility on shine. I'm with you.

I never really liked that weakness to fox. While I am exaggerating, I say it would be like if someone made a mod of castlevania 4 and called it a harder version. but to do this, he/she gave Simon Belmont the controls of the original 3 games while keeping the level design similar in order to make it harder; It is fake difficulty.
Anyways, because everyone but shiek is better in project m than in melee, fox isn't as godlike, and therefore, because of that, he should be easier to play. As long as they don't reduce the button/ control stick Imputs to do combos with like in dmc4 simple mode, fox isn't easy enough not to be technical like in melee.

 

[Blade-Fox]

For a lot of Melee Fox mains, it might be that making him easier to play is a sort of smack in the face to all of the hard work that they put in with him. All the work they had to go through and now because he is easier, they may feel like anyone can do it without going through the "right of passage." Almost like Fox's identity as "super technical and dedicated players only" was stolen.

Is he easier? Yes. Does multi-shining, double short hop laser, wave-shining, etc. still take a long time to learn and use well? Yes. Just not as long.

 

[Deleted member]

If people can explain to me why having fox easier to play as is bad smash design, then I will suggest to pmbr, that they should focus on making fox a harder character to use in order to improve on project m's game design.

We can make Fox worse, and then he'll be harder to win with, and then he'll be harder to play by extension. All the non-Fox players want him nerfed and all the Fox players want more of a challenge because he's too good. This is a clear win-win.

 

[DiZZ]

Umbreon Pmbr is to chicken to do that so keep your salty opinions to yourself

 

[666blaziken]

I like fox the way he is, that's why people need to stop complaining about him. He isn't really as good as in melee now that the other characters have more equal power, but he also isn't severely punished because he was so hard to use. If they nerf fox, people will complain that he isn't worth using, and that everyone else is cheap. But it could work, strong bad has suggested more nerfs for fox as well. But I think the reflect and laser nerfs are good enough. As a matter of a fact, I think if anything, they could possibly buff falco. Everyone is balanced under the belief that fox is the best, but characters like falco stay the same as in melee. But I am on the fence on this, so what does everyone think about that?

 

[Foxy K]

There's debate as to who is better between Fox and Falco in Melee, so I wouldn't consider him much lesser.

He has easily the best projectile in the game as well as ridiculous pressure and combo potential, with no trouble killing. How do you improve on that, besides buff his recovery, which is his primary balancing factor? Falco can stay the way he is for all I care, but he definitely doesn't need buffs.

 

[Mr.Pickle]

No fox isn't, "too easy to play", most of his tech is fairly difficult in comparison with the rest of the cast. The only thing making him easier are the mechanics in project m or bugs in the physics.

 

[Celestis]

I find things go back and forth on easier to play here. In some cases i find it easier to do things with him in melee, then others are easier in PM. Wave shine is easier in Melee. Short hop laser is easier in PM. I get stuck in shine more often in Melee then in PM. But then I also flub ledge wave lands in PM way more often then in melee.

I dunno, I think the L-cancels might be easier in PM? Maybe that could contribute to a lot?

 

[666blaziken]

I find things go back and forth on easier to play here. In some cases i find it easier to do things with him in melee, then others are easier in PM. Wave shine is easier in Melee. Short hop laser is easier in PM. I get stuck in shine more often in Melee then in PM. But then I also flub ledge wave lands in PM way more often then in melee.

I dunno, I think the L-cancels might be easier in PM? Maybe that could contribute to a lot?

Yes, I feel that contributes a lot as well. But that's all the more reason I like fox. Imagine this super technical character without all the frustration of trying to l-cancel on shield. In melee, even if I can practice l-canceling on shielding (put bowser at level 9 handicap) I still have trouble getting the timing down even though I feel like I clearly pressed the button right before he landed. In Project M, I know when I landed it, and I know when I didn't due to the white flash, so it's easier to practice, and I think they added frames to L-cancel in. I could be wrong though, and I just have a better gripe on fox. I feel like as long as fox isn't over- simplified (hence SF4 3ds bottom screen) making him easier (probably by accident anyway) is generally good design.

 

[G13_Flux]

honestly, im pretty sure the only thing that makes fox slightly easier to play is that you have one additional frame to do a short hop. theres literally nothing else that should make him easier to play. Additionally, lets not forget that the rest of the cast is much better, and the stagelist is much more diverse (with many of the new stages having high ceilings). This makes it harder for fox match up wise.

 

[Foxy K]

The "extra frame to short hop" thing has always amused me. I haven't had trouble shorthopping with Fox in Melee since I learned it for the first time.

 

[Juker]

I find him no easier to play than Melee, and I've been playing Melee since it first came out, maining Fox. I remember someone said that he's easier because you no longer have to crouch or jump cancel his upsmash... That was definitely the hardest part about playing Fox, so there you go.

 

[666blaziken]

I find him no easier to play than Melee, and I've been playing Melee since it first came out, maining Fox. I remember someone said that he's easier because you no longer have to crouch or jump cancel his upsmash... That was definitely the hardest part about playing Fox, so there you go.

How do you cancel his up smash in project M instead of crouching? Just curious because I didn't know you could cancel his up smash in melee either.

 

[Juker]

How do you cancel his up smash in project M instead of crouching? Just curious because I didn't know you could cancel his up smash in melee either.

running

 

[Foxy K]

Oh yeah, you couldn't C Stick up out of dash in Melee. It wasn't that hard to just up + A but now that I've been C Sticking in PM, I try to do it in Melee and mess up.

 

[Juker]

Oh yeah, you couldn't C Stick up out of dash in Melee. It wasn't that hard to just up + A but now that I've been C Sticking in PM, I try to do it in Melee and mess up.

Yeah, I still sometimes find myself pressing down right before I press up on the c-stick out of habit from Melee. It takes about 1 minute to learn and form a habit of, and makes Fox no easier. This actually applies to every character anyway, and you still have to crouch cancel any other running smash anyway; like when you want to run into a d smash on someone recovering at the edge.
I didn't even notice the change in the extra from for a short hop. I thought I had read he was still a 3 frame startup on animation. Either way, once again, when you have the timing down, it's not like you go from Melee to PM playing Fox and think, "O Man, Fox is so easy now that I have that extra 1/60 of a second to take my finger off of Y". It made no impression on me.
I do like reading why people think Fox is easier though, as I haven't been able to find anything that made me think that. The only thing I notice is that I will kill myself on accident more because I try to auto input commands while recovering, like jump - side b, and due to the physics changes in PM my jump won't actually come out, or it comes out later than I thought it would and I will miss the ledge. Also, it seems like sometimes the fast fallers take way too long to come out of tumble when knocked off the ledge, especially Wolf. Sometimes I'll literally get thrown off the ledge at 0 and die because I'll try to press jump then move over to up b and my jump input won't have registered and by then it's too late.

 

[Foxy K]

The short hop being easier is on account of PM waiting until the last possible frame to check to see if you've released the button, which is a whole frame later than when Melee checked (I think, feel free to correct me anyone). I think I read they added a frame of input leniency to a lot of his other techniques too, but I don't remember which ones or even know for sure.

 

[T-R3X]

project m fox feels like melee falco to me for some reason.

 

[TKD]

HUH? Fox is easy to play in Melee, too. Everything's easy to land, you don't really need spacing like with other characters, etc.. Spacies are the easiest characters to play all around imo; they do most of the work for you as long as you have the fingers to control them. The mental aspects of other characters is A LOT harder to develop than good spacie fingers.

If they think Fox isn't broken because of difficulty to control, they're EMBARRASSINGLY wrong. It's like they're saying "Fox is hard enough to control to mess up often, that's why he's legit"... If you expect to mess up often, you have low expectations of yourself. There are many players that can control him perfectly, including mango/leffen/fiction/javi/m2k for easy examples.

And who cares about control difficulty when Fox gets like 3 chances to mess up for every 1 mistake of a harder character like Marth/Sheik.

Honestly I find it harder to control PM Fox than Melee Fox because of the stupid ugly landing detection. Sometimes I even get paranoid and feel like that 1 frame of delay tends to get in my way; but it's probably just the landing detection that keeps messing me up.

If they don't like PM Fox why don't they play another char lol

PS: THEY PROBABLY DON'T LIKE PM BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW BRAWL TECHNIQUES. Skidturn hopping is extremely fun as Fox. You can approach with bair and we all know his bair is pretty broken.

 

[T-R3X]

There are many players that can control him perfectly, including mango/leffen/fiction/javi/m2k

uhhhhh...what exactly do you mean by perfectly, here?

 

[BILL?]

Also fox does not get 3 chances to mess up. Mess up against a good player and that's a stock. Chaingrabs, shine combos, juggling, rest combos, gimps, etc. If you get grabbed (or shined by falco) as fox or Falco you deserve to lose that stock or be near death %. Spacing and technical precision, as well as smart play, help not get hit. You can't just mindlessly SHFFL Nair > shine and dash dance Upsmash and win, not in melee and not in PM.

 

[foxygrandpa]

Technical wise, he's slightly easier to play
But literally every character has a punish game designed specifically to kill fox and falco. If you make one or two tech errors like missing an L cancel or screwing up shield pressure, pretty much everyone can force you offstage for a gimp or 0 to death you. So strategically, he's much harder to play. Not to mention about 35 more matchups to learn.

 

[TKD]

fox does not get 3 chances to mess up? who are you playing against, m2k?

@ foxygrandpa i agree. pm gave everyone spacie-killing tools lol

 

[T-R3X]

fox does not get 3 chances to mess up? who are you playing against, m2k?

@ foxygrandpa i agree. pm gave everyone spacie-killing tools lol

Melee gave spacie killing tools...
Fox may get 3 chances to mess up but every time he does there's a threat that he will die.

 

[Alondite]

Fox is piss-easy to play. All of the difficulty in playing him is completely fake, finger dexterity nonsense which should NEVER exist in a form of primarily mental competition. Not only that, but none of it is even necessary to win with Fox because his core set of moves is so powerful. You can win matches with nair, uthrow, uair, usmash, and nothing else, and it's really not that difficult. His uair and usmash are in desperate need of a KB nerf.

 

[BILL?]

EDIT: Sorry for reactive post, did not get nearly enough sleep and forgot that sarcasm does not work on internet.
No beef intended. Maybe a pinch of salt, but no beef.

You do have a point about winning with very few moves, if you add the shine, and maybe utilt, you have a pretty accurate description of how to win with a simple style of fox. His normals are really strong, and the safety he has on shield can be ridiculous at times. (it often is just dumb how hard it is to punish him for attacking shield, thanks to shine. Grab armor helps a bit and so does loss of invincible shine, but its still an amazingly safe moveset for which only Falco, and maybe wolf, have anything comparable. Fox has the faster jump squat so it makes things like Shine OOS and multishining even more effective).

Fox does require a fair amount of mind games, he lacks the direct range of characters like marth or ivysaur, so its his speed and erratic movements that let him in and give him so much space control. Fox has massive potential space control when he is moving. Once fox gets in, things are bad, friends. You can't just approach all the time with fox, but once you get an opening, fox can usually capitalize, thanks to the speed. Also, I will admit that getting shined at 0 by the edge blows hard. That can be really dumb, you are comboing him and then two shines later you end up dead even though you were bodying him that whole stock.

PM ceiling height has helped a bit with the KO %, I feel like its about 10% higher on most stages (so for normal characters about 100% after the hit, which is pretty normal KO%) but honestly fox is so dominant in neutral that changing the KB on Usmash/Uair would not do much to change his position on the tier list. He'd just combo you longer. Uair it would actually enable him to combo even harder vs floaties, since they would not be able to DI as far away if they miss the SDI. So they would still end up dying shortly after an Uair at high%, it would just give another chance for them to SDI out of it.

Still, its not like you can't beat him. Chaingrabs, CC>punishes, auto combos on fastfallers, disjointed attacks that can stop an approach on reaction, powerful edge guards and gimps, projectiles that keep fox from moving freely; characters in PM (and Melee) have plenty of tools to combat fox.

 

[Vashimus]

Yes, clearly that must be it. Brilliant reasoning there detective, not at all fallacious in the slightest.

EDIT: No harm, no foul.

 

[Drodeka]

Honestly, I had no idea he was even easier. Aside from the controls for the entire game working more fluidly than Melee, he feels pretty much exactly the same. That being said, I'm much better at waveshining in Melee with Fox and Falco. I practiced for a long time to make their wavedashes/waveshines the perfect kind, where they don't actually jump, just slide, so I can dash very quickly and with my thumb on the in-between spot of down and sideways, so they slide much further.

I can't even wavedash like 50% of the time with Falco in PM, so I just don't shine as often since I don't have the confidence. If I practice my wavedashes with Falco or Fox in PM, it helps, but then when I play Melee again the consistency is gone and I have to spend about 5-15 minutes getting that back on point. I think it's because of the frame delay, at least on Falco.

Fox being too easy? No. Fox being too good? Well, for a while I thought no because that was the losers answer, but after seeing a couple people that don't have any technical skill at the game pick him up and start destroying other people of their skill level with upsmashes and n-airs for days, I can see where people might get that idea. However, I don't consider fox nearly as good once the players in question have improved.

So, for a lower lever player, Fox is a bit too easy and too powerful. But, once the players know what they're doing, his advantages fade and it becomes a technical control over him that will give him any advantage, which I don't consider too easy.

 

[Drodeka]

Fox is piss-easy to play. All of the difficulty in playing him is completely fake, finger dexterity nonsense which should NEVER exist in a form of primarily mental competition. Not only that, but none of it is even necessary to win with Fox because his core set of moves is so powerful. You can win matches with nair, uthrow, uair, usmash, and nothing else, and it's really not that difficult. His uair and usmash are in desperate need of a KB nerf.

Sorry for double post, don't know how to reply in an edit.

Firstly, "finger dexterity" not being a respectable style of play is flat-out wrong. Melee players didn't reach their technical prowess just for fun. The techniques they're capable of pulling off mid-fight will legitimately help them win, ESPECIALLY if they combine that with their mind. I hate to burst your bubble, but this game ISN'T primarily a mental competition. That would be a strategy game. This is a fighting game. The main reason this game is considered to be so mentally deep and why players are so easily encouraged to develop in that direction, is because this game is deceptively simple. I mean, come on, each character has around 14 attacks, usually with absolutely zero input-specific techniques, and when there are, it's either press hard or press soft. Just because this is your favorite game, don't forget it was designed for children as the target audience. What it's become is better than what it began as, but you can't ignore it's roots.

As for Fox's core moveset being too strong, I hate to say it, but I agree with you. I just don't feel that it's appropriate for the quickest character in the game to also have some of the highest kill potential. In this game, competitively, it's primarily about speed and options. Fox has arguably the most of both of these in almost any given situation, and then on top, he can simply C-Stick up if you miss something, leading to immediate death.

Melee was created in Japan, and in Japan, they nerfed Fox (google "Melee NTSC PAL differences). That was a good idea. They did the exact nerfs I wanted, nerfing his Up smash and F smash, making D Smash his primary kill move for wham-bam-boozlin the opponent.

 

[BILL?]

I too cannot wave shine as well in PM as in melee, I play falco if I want a PM space animal mainly for that reason.
But ZSS is good enough and too fun, so I usually just play her.

Fox Upsmash being mildly nerfed might not be the worst thing in the world, honestly it also would not matter much at higher levels of competition. Uair with lower KB may have unintended negative consequences with long Uair juggling that is harder to escape if you miss the SDI. It would give more chances to SDI out of it and thats pretty easy so it could go either way.

 

[Drodeka]

I too cannot wave shine as well in PM as in melee, I play falco if I want a PM space animal mainly for that reason.
But ZSS is good enough and too fun, so I usually just play her.

Fox Upsmash being mildly nerfed might not be the worst thing in the world, honestly it also would not matter much at higher levels of competition. Uair with lower KB may have unintended negative consequences with long Uair juggling that is harder to escape if you miss the SDI. It would give more chances to SDI out of it and thats pretty easy so it could go either way.

Good point. Giving Fox a juggle seems more of a buff lol. Perhaps make it one of those moves that will always knock them pretty far away, but doesn't actually have that strong of KO scaling. This way he could still use it to kill but after about 20% more damage, and it wouldn't juggle opponents.

 

[BILL?]

That could hurt the thunders combo, which is useful for fox vs fox and fox vs falco at low % (or fox vs anyone who falls to shine and doesn't go too far from it, so lucas, zss, pit, roy, fox, falco, wolf, anyone lighter than marth who isn't too floaty/slidey, I've never seen it used against jiggs lol). (thunders is waveshine>jab reset>falling uair>Usmash or grab) Then again, not sure if I've seen someone thunders in PM, since the wave shines feel different and that was a fairly technical timing-specific melee thing.
But this also isn't melee, so balancing and changes are a thing. and for balance, the different scaling of KB on Uair might not be a bad change. Uthrow>Uair would/should still work as a % dependent KO combo on a lot of characters, but it would require the fox player to build up a bit more % and thus would provide a higher chance that a Fox has to commit to using his double jump to ensure both hits of the Uair, or that a floaty character could DI far enough to the side that Fox has to use Bair .

 

[Alondite]

I too cannot wave shine as well in PM as in melee, I play falco if I want a PM space animal mainly for that reason.
But ZSS is good enough and too fun, so I usually just play her.

Fox Upsmash being mildly nerfed might not be the worst thing in the world, honestly it also would not matter much at higher levels of competition. Uair with lower KB may have unintended negative consequences with long Uair juggling that is harder to escape if you miss the SDI. It would give more chances to SDI out of it and thats pretty easy so it could go either way.

Lower KBG won't have that effect. BKB can be altered to prevent that, as well.

As for combos...so? Combo's are far less engaging than approaching, and involve a lot more negative space for both players because there isn't a lot going on. The more you can limit combos, the better the game will ultimately play, so long as there is sufficient reward for successful approaches.

 

[BILL?]

Limit combos? sorry but I simply do not think that is the right way to go for the game as a whole.
my main issue with brawl was that nobody wanted to approach because why would you ever take the risk of committing to an approach if you can't capitalize properly off of it?
To me that means one can potentially gain a lot of %, an edge guard, a KO, and/or good positional advantage off of an opening. Combos are, at least in my mind, engaging because an opponent can and will use DI, SDI, and various other means to escape from a combo or limit a punish.

I recognize that you said sufficient reward, but the current punish games for most characters seem to be sufficient to reward an approach without being stupidly broken, while also providing sufficient punishment for bad approaches to require strong neutral game. Weaker punish games would create a more campy/poke-based game style, which is not my preferred way to play.

Honestly i think fox is fine and doesn't need changes, but a reasonable, well-designed nerf would not be a bad thing either.

Main question:
Why nerf fox when you can wait for the slew of characters that haven't enjoyed over a decade of metagame development and technical advancement to really come into their own? PM 3.0x is really young, especially in comparison with melee.

 

[Alondite]

Limit combos? sorry but I simply do not think that is the right way to go for the game as a whole.
my main issue with brawl was that nobody wanted to approach because why would you ever take the risk of committing to an approach if you can't capitalize properly off of it?
To me that means one can potentially gain a lot of %, an edge guard, a KO, and/or good positional advantage off of an opening. Combos are, at least in my mind, engaging because an opponent can and will use DI, SDI, and various other means to escape from a combo or limit a punish.

I recognize that you said sufficient reward, but the current punish games for most characters seem to be sufficient to reward an approach without being stupidly broken, while also providing sufficient punishment for bad approaches to require strong neutral game. Weaker punish games would create a more campy/poke-based game style, which is not my preferred way to play.

Honestly i think fox is fine and doesn't need changes, but a reasonable, well-designed nerf would not be a bad thing either.

Main question:
Why nerf fox when you can wait for the slew of characters that haven't enjoyed over a decade of metagame development and technical advancement to really come into their own? PM 3.0x is really young, especially in comparison with melee.

As for the bolded bit, what you personally prefer has no influence on what is good design. Fewer combos present more interactive potential because each player has, on average, more opportunities and options for interaction. More interaction = better gameplay. Not only that, but there is little interplay in combos. The only thing the defending player can do is DI, which isn't a particularly engaging mechanic because it's basically "DI away to escape a combo" more often than not, and offensively it's one player linking a number of attacks without risk. No risk equals no meaningful decision-making because you're getting a net gain regardless.

So basically, combos = less engagement between players, less interactive potential, more negative space, and less meaningful decision-making. Regardless of what you prefer, combos limit gameplay potential. The main reason that people like combos is because they are visually appealing and make players feel skilled, neither of which fosters better gameplay. Proper balancing of risk:reward is all that is necessary, and Project M does that very poorly, with mechanics and safe moves presenting significant payoff with little risk.

The nerf for Fox isn't necessary because he's too good, it's necessary because it polarizes his play, and because the moves in questioned are poorly-designed. At higher percents, Fox's play degenerates into "what can I do to successfully land an up smash or an up air?" Given Fox's speed and combo ability, it really isn't difficult to land either move, and they offer massive reward, far more than any of his other KO options.

 

[foxygrandpa]

As for the bolded bit, what you personally prefer has no influence on what is good design. Fewer combos present more interactive potential because each player has, on average, more opportunities and options for interaction. More interaction = better gameplay. Not only that, but there is little interplay in combos. The only thing the defending player can do is DI, which isn't a particularly engaging mechanic because it's basically "DI away to escape a combo" more often than not, and offensively it's one player linking a number of attacks without risk. No risk equals no meaningful decision-making because you're getting a net gain regardless.

So basically, combos = less engagement between players, less interactive potential, more negative space, and less meaningful decision-making. Regardless of what you prefer, combos limit gameplay potential. The main reason that people like combos is because they are visually appealing and make players feel skilled, neither of which fosters better gameplay. Proper balancing of risk:reward is all that is necessary, and Project M does that very poorly, with mechanics and safe moves presenting significant payoff with little risk.

The nerf for Fox isn't necessary because he's too good, it's necessary because it polarizes his play, and because the moves in questioned are poorly-designed. At higher percents, Fox's play degenerates into "what can I do to successfully land an up smash or an up air?" Given Fox's speed and combo ability, it really isn't difficult to land either move, and they offer massive reward, far more than any of his other KO options.

I have never disagreed with a post so much in my entire life.
Combo's arent difficult to pull off, but 0-death someone (besides spacies) is decently hard to do. They do not in any way limit interaction. They do the complete opposite. Take brawl for example. There are virtually no combos, the whole game is about who can make an approach with the least amount of punish, which is boring and slow paced.
How do fox's killing moves not require precision to land exactly?
Fox's whole entire character is a gamble, especially in project m. He is offensively superior to the vast majority of the cast, but he is also the most technically demanding and easiest to kill at low percentages and combo.
If you think otherwise, you and the people you play against are probably pretty weak players. This isn't brawl, you're not going to win with hit and run camping.

 

[Alondite]

I have never disagreed with a post so much in my entire life.
Combo's arent difficult to pull off, but 0-death someone (besides spacies) is decently hard to do. They do not in any way limit interaction. They do the complete opposite. Take brawl for example. There are virtually no combos, the whole game is about who can make an approach with the least amount of punish, which is boring and slow paced.
How do fox's killing moves not require precision to land exactly?
Fox's whole entire character is a gamble, especially in project m. He is offensively superior to the vast majority of the cast, but he is also the most technically demanding and easiest to kill at low percentages and combo.
If you think otherwise, you and the people you play against are probably pretty weak players. This isn't brawl, you're not going to win with hit and run camping.

Being difficult to pull off has nothing to do with the quality of gameplay. Fact. If anything, high execution barriers make games worse. Not only that, but the fact that you find Brawl "boring" is beyond irrelevant. Anyone reasonably versed in game design functionalism could probably even make the case for Brawl being a better game than Melee. I prefer Melee, but what I prefer has zero influence on the function of their mechanical systems. Learn to set your own personal bias aside and look at things objectively.

And how exactly do they not limit interactive potential? There are exactly no mechanics that can be executed by the defending player during a combo. Gameplay is defined as the back-and-forth counter between players and the system, or other players through the system. Long combos are all push and no pull, they are essentially static space where nothing of meaning is happening because actual gameplay has more or less stopped.

How do they not require precision to land? Hmm...well, tech-chase into up smash is basically free given Fox's ground speed. Hell, you can punish just about anything with an up smash because it's so fast. Up throw into up air is just as easy because it's no-risk, so there's nothing to consider other than simply aiming the attack. "Technically demanding," I love that phrase. It's fine motor dexterity, and nothing else, so stop trying to pass it off as skill; dexterity is only one dimension of skill, and it's the one that video games should, and typically do, stress the least.

 

[Foxy K]

Dexterity is the second-most stressed skill in gaming, after mental adaptation. This isn't chess. Smash isn't a sport, but it can easily be compared to one. Are basketball games won by a team that, due to strategic success, is more frequently in place to take shots? No, they're won by teams that make shots, partly due to strategy, and partly due to that tall dude's muscle memory for tossing a ball into a hoop.

If we didn't have combos, what would we have? You either hit someone and they die (Divekick) or you hit someone and they don't (Brawl). Divekick is overly simplistic and Brawl is like watching paint dry. Three different things can happen when a player lands an attack in Smash: practically nothing (Brawl), a combo (Melee, PM, and 64), or they just instantly die (thankfully nothing outside of insta kill moves like Rest which are immensely punishable). Instead of combos, would you have rather have only single hits that can't be followed up on? Play Brawl and bet he redheaded stepchild of Smash because no one enjoys watching it. Would you rather have every hit be an instant KO? Great, you've streamlined the process of the game and cut out this negative space you hate so much. Also, there are four TOTAL interactions per game. Great.

Combos require the comboing player to work for the kill by converting one hit into more hits, ideally into a KO. The comboed player isn't just sitting there, however, they're DIing to escape and teching when possible. You seem to think this isn't much of an interaction. Do you know what you can do when you're getting comboed in Street Fighter, the most popular fighting game in the world? Take it. There's only one thing that will end that combo: your opponent dropping it. Smash essentially has a built in combo breaker at every 25% of your "life bar," since you can only take one stock at a time. There are plenty of Street Fighter combos that do much more than that, and there's nothing you can do to end it except wait. And yet this is the most popular fighter there is. Smash, or more specifically, Melee and PM's systems are far superior to that.

As far as Fox is concerned, yes, he converts to kills extremely easily. The dexterity applies in landing a hit in the first place. He has very safe options, but you can not mess up the execution of them in the slightest, because that means a stock. As Fox combos, so does he get comboed. People act like it's a one way street, but the balancing factor is that he gets messed up as hard as he messes up others. He's the ultimate glass cannon. He's Smash's Akuma. A Fox player needs the knowledge to know his opponent's character's options (most importantly reach), the mental adaption to take advantage of his opponent's habits, and the dexterity/skill to do it correctly without getting killed for messing up. Which I think is cool.

Why does everyone complain so much