Fox is bad now?

[BEES]

The principle problem with Fox I think is that the shine is too slow, and the hitbox is too small for it. It's a pretty useless move now. Any combo you attempt with it, you'll always be a few frames too slow or a few pixels too far away to land it.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

shine is not a problem. sure melee shine was better, but brawl shine is still useful.

 

[Karttibone]

I agree with the hit box, but too slow? If you want to shine repeately you just have to figure out the timming, then you can shine as fast as in air (You don't have to perform a JC shine).
I tried once to combo with the shine and soon I realized, I was trying the dumbest shi+. You (can) should only use the shine to defend. Or if you sure what you're doing too spike.

 

[Teran]

Well you can dash shine by surprise and follow up with a more meaty attack, and it looks cool as a bonus.

 

[Chileno4Live]

If Fox has like 3 bad match-ups, you can counterpick that right? Correct me if im wrong i never went to any big tournaments but really... I don't have experience with good Sheiks/Pikachu's/ZSS/, but i can tell Fox gets ***** against those, from what everyone is saying. Has never happened with me though, but i got punished by D3 ;o;

 

[KheldarVII]

If Fox has like 3 bad match-ups, you can counterpick that right? Correct me if im wrong i never went to any big tournaments but really... I don't have experience with good Sheiks/Pikachu's/ZSS/, but i can tell Fox gets ***** against those, from what everyone is saying. Has never happened with me though, but i got punished by D3 ;o;

You could probably get away with Fox against ZSS if you're lucky, but Pikachu is somewhat of a "I'll just take this time to go to the bathroom and think up my counterpick".

It's not really just 3 bad match-ups. It's many slightly disadvantaged matchups. He doesn't horribly **** anyone outside of heavies, and they can still give Fox a good run for his money. That's pretty much why he's not getting any respect. Although I feel the current tier list could be very theory based. Revolutionize his meta-game my good chum. Fox surprises a lot of players. I know this.

 

[Mi1oo]

Fox is just one of those characters that if you do the wrong thing and read your opponent wrong you guy terrible. But if your combos work and you read your opponent you have a good chance. It’s all about readying your opponent and making sure they don’t read you. And until someone actually gets “good” no one can call him bad. I see people stand on the ground spamming laser and getting punished for it and dair into shields… it’s no surprise people think his bad. I’m yet to see someone short hop triple laser in game lol… people shdl in melee yet no one triple lasers in brawl.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

I picked up Fox in brawl. He's great. He works well with my style and he's got moves that are so much fun to pull off. Such as shinespiking and Dair>Stuff. In my eyes, he's superb.

And now he's underestimated! He's got a lot going for him still.

 

[Firestormzero0]

fox doesnt suck... he just takes a little more practice to use now...

 

[Melomaniacal]

Fox is just one of those characters that if you do the wrong thing and read your opponent wrong you guy terrible. But if your combos work and you read your opponent you have a good chance. It’s all about readying your opponent and making sure they don’t read you. And until someone actually gets “good” no one can call him bad. I see people stand on the ground spamming laser and getting punished for it and dair into shields… it’s no surprise people think his bad. I’m yet to see someone short hop triple laser in game lol… people shdl in melee yet no one triple lasers in brawl.

It's rare that I don't triple laser in a short hop, honestly.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

I agree with the hit box, but too slow? If you want to shine repeately you just have to figure out the timming, then you can shine as fast as in air (You don't have to perform a JC shine).
I tried once to combo with the shine and soon I realized, I was trying the dumbest shi+. You (can) should only use the shine to defend. Or if you sure what you're doing too spike.

The reflector can still be used in combos... It just has to be the final hit (or if you just get lucky you can use it is a string of attacks).

 

[Osi]

I didn't like him on brawl, till brawl+ hehe. Right now with just L cancel and hitstun of +10% it's amazing what can be done. An example is against a friend of mine who plays wolf. I have done these 3 combos, but he had to guess wrong on DI for them. The awesome part is that fox's drill up tilt just destroys.

Drill -> utilt -> utilt -> utilt -> grab forward throw -> dash attack -> uptilt -> Drill -> utilt -> bair

Drill -> utilt -> utilt -> utilt -> ftilt -> dash attack -> utilt -> SH drill -> utilt - full hope drill -> utilt -> uair

Drill -> utilt -> utilt -> utilt -> SH drill -> u tilt -> SH drill -> u tilt -> SH uair -> uair


Of course it take them messing up on DI for the start, the amount the drill hits for determines whether they are set in a spin you can't grab or just a normal fall, but all the rest is hard to get out of at times. Changing where you do the dash attack messes up their DI a lot too. The nice part is that these can be done with them unable to attack/air dodge. They can tech/DI at times though. Those are pretty easy/dumb combos since brawl+ is new. The stuff he will do once people have months on there.... going to be cool. Not to mention you can jump shine and waveland to chase people!

I'm going to try and post some vids soon. I'm definitely going to main him on brawl+.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

brawl+ you mean the hacked one? then its just melee Fox in brawl game.

 

[Osi]

brawl+ you mean the hacked one? then its just melee Fox in brawl game.

Yea the hacked one. I'd rather not argue how he is different than melee fox, but I can see why that would be said about any brawl+ characters since a few melee elements are in there. I'm just saying the character is a little more my taste with the hacks, and it's impressive what just hitstun alone does to change fox.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

^Who cares though. Like isn't this topic about is Fox bad now in BRAWL?

Not Brawl+.

 

[Osi]

^Who cares though. Like isn't this topic about is Fox bad now in BRAWL?

Not Brawl+.

Sorry, you are correct... my mistake for wanting to discuss it in the thread, if I really wanted to discuss it then I should have made a brawl+ thread.


I guess I'll add my opinion of him in brawl. I didn't think he was terrible, but not really a character that fit my playstyle much. The shine didn't really spike the same making fox players take a much larger risk for shine gimps, but I actually like that portion. The lasers not reaching far enough was also a issue for me. With his speed it would be nice to play defensive with the lasers from far away versus a new stock. I like his drill a lot still, and it's pretty much my main entry on brawl. The bair changes made it a little harder attacking players above you at a horizontal angle. I still had a ton of fun on him compared to the other brawl characters, and it's not really fair to just say he's bad compared to melee since he plays so different in brawl. I certainly would not call him a bad or bottom tier character in brawl.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Sorry, you are correct... my mistake for wanting to discuss it in the thread, if I really wanted to discuss it then I should have made a brawl+ thread.


I guess I'll add my opinion of him in brawl. I didn't think he was terrible, but not really a character that fit my playstyle much. The shine didn't really spike the same making fox players take a much larger risk for shine gimps, but I actually like that portion. The lasers not reaching far enough was also a issue for me. With his speed it would be nice to play defensive with the lasers from far away versus a new stock. I like his drill a lot still, and it's pretty much my main entry on brawl. The bair changes made it a little harder attacking players above you at a horizontal angle. I still had a ton of fun on him compared to the other brawl characters, and it's not really fair to just say he's bad compared to melee since he plays so different in brawl. I certainly would not call him a bad or bottom tier character in brawl.

Yeah, definitely understandable. All the points you brought up I can totally relate.

 

[spedgod]

See my "view" upon fox is like this.

He is like a bomb. Very damaging and destructive IF the wick can reach the explosives. Noteably (spelling?) his dair. This is the main starter. If he can get this to the enemy, then it starts his "explosive" chain of moves. And once his flow gets started, it's hard to stop.

BUT, if you cut off the wick (stopping the dair) then his explosiveness is shutdown.


Overall, I feel that fox is all about flow. Once he gets started, it's hard to get him to stop.

 

[SCOTU]

well, in that analysis, i suppose "hard to get him to stop" is directly proportional to your skill at SDIing (which is notably <-that's how it's spelled- easier in this game).

 

[landmaster05]

so that's why piegirl never came back..............

 

[Zhamy]

See my "view" upon fox is like this.

He is like a bomb. Very damaging and destructive IF the wick can reach the explosives. Noteably (spelling?) his dair. This is the main starter. If he can get this to the enemy, then it starts his "explosive" chain of moves. And once his flow gets started, it's hard to stop.

BUT, if you cut off the wick (stopping the dair) then his explosiveness is shutdown.


Overall, I feel that fox is all about flow. Once he gets started, it's hard to get him to stop.

Am I supposed to cry or laugh? I can't tell anymore.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Am I supposed to cry or laugh? I can't tell anymore.

how about both Zhamy since your confused on how to respond.

Spoiler

also Marth says Hi to that flow

 

[Fitty]

i think fox is a overall good character just need time with him like marth. his up smah is kinda over powered though.

 

[yummynbeefy]

orly? well then i guess CF and JP also ***** hardcore in melee so they went down to practically the bottom for brawl.

/rant

back on Fox, no he doesn't suck now. hes still good, just some changes here and there and some really stupid matchups, do not fight pikachu w/ Fox. lol

yea and a few nerfs shine spiking isnt as good, up air doesnt kill as well but its a good juggler side b does less damage up b has less ko power blaster goes shorter and his grabs and a moves most are either the same got a tiny nerf or got a beefing so hes still good but dont fight pika or sheik with fox haha

 

[JigglyZelda003]

you forgot the ICs lol

 

[Conclusively]

i think fox is a overall good character just need time with him like marth. his up smah is kinda over powered though.

Overpowered? Lol. Yeah. Right. Snake's tilts pls.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

yea and a few nerfs shine spiking isnt as good, up air doesnt kill as well but its a good juggler side b does less damage up b has less ko power blaster goes shorter and his grabs and a moves most are either the same got a tiny nerf or got a beefing so hes still good but dont fight pika or sheik with fox haha

I don't know about that. I think up air is best for like poking through platforms or killing at high percents only. It would be more effective to hit an opponent with a forward air or a back air in my honest opinion.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i think Fair is better too seeing as you can lift them up higher and it tends to go through lost of other aerials.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Overpowered? Lol. Yeah. Right. Snake's tilts pls.

Lol Snake is a poop head.

i think Fair is better too seeing as you can lift them up higher and it tends to go through lost of other aerials.

Yeah without a doubt. The forward air is such a useful tool.

 

[Neenja13]

Fox is a good solid character.

 

[Talonzz]

He isnt a bad character, he's just nerfed largely from melee, as did most characters anyway (Shiek, Jiggs, and Captain Falcon)

He's still a fast and agile character, and I bet they'll make him uber again in the next SSB game

 

[Leafplayer452]

Fox is a great character, I would just like him even more if he had lasers like Falco..

 

[SCOTU]

Fox is actually kinda bad, guys. or rather, he's not good.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

oh no its scotu the anitFox, get him XD
lol

 

[§witch]

i think fox is a overall good character just need time with him like marth. his up smah is kinda over powered though.

Yep, this warranted a bump, thank you sir, as if we don't enough pointless **** being posted on in this board.

 

[xyzmetal]

Man Fox is not bad. He's a good character. He's got good recovery, gimping and great combos that can build 50 dmg just like that.