Fox/Falco match-ups

[SpaceFalcon]

Didn't know weather or not to throw this under falco or fox forums but like this one better

Q: What are the circumstances of which you decide to switch between the two characters? Like certain match-ups or counter picked stages.

I'm trying to have good alternation between them two.

 

[MegaMarthMan]

When your sucking with your 1st or... When I play my friends I use pichu
They suck, lol.

 

[Rubyiris]

It depends on many circumstances. I main Falco, but I often switch between the two.

The different circumstances for me are:

Who am I playing?
Which character do they use?
What stage are we playing on?
How warmed up am i?
How comfortable do I feel with my characters at that point?

I main Falco, and I most often start the match, regardless of who I play against as Falco. However depending on many things, such as who I'm playing against, and which character they use, I may switch between Fox and Falco. Stage choice makes a huge difference, too.

I'm comfortable on all neutral stages with both Fox, and Falco, however depending on their character, my preferences changes. For example:

Against Marth, as Falco, I'm the most comfortable with Dream Land, and Pokemon Stadium, with Yoshi's Story and Fountain of Dreams up next. I have the most problems on Battlefield and Final Destination, with Final Destination being my absolute most hated stage. This rule applies with any character that can chain grab Falco.

against Marth as Fox, I'm the most comfortable with Dream Land, and Pokemon Stadium, and Battlefield, and Fountian of Dreams close by. I have the most problems with Yoshi's Story and Final Destination.

Now for counter-pick levels.

On Mute City, and Kongo Jungle 64, I prefer Falco. With Fox, Green Greens is without a doubt my favorite counterpick level, though in reality I don't mind any of them. I especially enjoy Jungle Japes, and Pokefloats. I have a really gay play style. My play style is focused around playing as efficient as possible, and as gay as possible, focusing on gimps, shine spikes, and edge guarding. Green Green, Jungle Japes, and Pokefloats are the three counter pick stages that Fox excels at playing as gay as possible, and eliminate many of the problems I have versus characters such as Marth.

 

[Blistering Speed]

For characters solely, it's usually advisable to:
Fox: This is up in the air, considering obviously you can ditto and be even or you can go Falco, where people aren't sure where it's even or advantaged.
Falco: See above.
Marth: Fox, he has a very slight advantage, Falco goes even but gets stage CP'd worse.
Sheik: Fox, but Falco's no worse then even.
Falcon: Falco, but both **** his **** so go crazy.
Peach: Fox.
Jigglypuff: Fox.
Everyone else gets beaten by both, though Fox is the better choice against ICs and Samus.

 

[Rubyiris]

For characters solely, it's usually advisable to:
Fox: This is up in the air, considering obviously you can ditto and be even or you can go Falco, where people aren't sure where it's even or advantaged.
Falco: See above.
Marth: Fox, he has a very slight advantage, Falco goes even but gets stage CP'd worse.
Sheik: Fox, but Falco's no worse then even.
Falcon: Falco, but both **** his **** so go crazy.
Peach: Fox.
Jigglypuff: Fox.
Everyone else gets beaten by both, though Fox is the better choice against ICs and Samus.

Falco has the advantage against Fox on all neutrals that aren't named Final Destination.

Fox and Falco both have the advantage against Marth DEPENDING ON THE STAGE.

Fox has a slight advantage against Shiek, while Shiek is probably a 60/40 against Falco.

Falcon is ***** by both space animals.

Peach is at a a light disadvantage against Fox. Honestly the worst stages against her easily is FD, NOT Dream Land, since DL does a good job of eliminating her chain grab, AND gived the spacies platforms to work with. It does give problems for Falco, but the high ceiling makes hardly ANY difference for Fox.

Jigglypuff is beaten by Fox, but I personally have an easier time against her with Falco. I'm not consistent enough with Fox to camp as well as I'd like to, whereas I can camp extremely efficiently with Falco, plus Falco has his own gay combos vs Jigglypuff.

Against Samus I personally prefer Falco. Ics it's definitely in Fox's favor, ONLY because Falco is much more vulnerable/easy to exploit than Fox is. Both destroy the **** out of Ics when played correctly, but Falco has more obvious, glaring weaknesses, and is much easier to exploit than Fox. Unlike Fox, Falco doesn't have nearly as much room for error as Fox does, making it much easier to get grabs, and other various gayness on him than Fox.

 

[young wus]

For characters solely, it's usually advisable to:
Fox: This is up in the air, considering obviously you can ditto and be even or you can go Falco, where people aren't sure where it's even or advantaged.
Falco: See above.
Marth: Fox, he has a very slight advantage, Falco goes even but gets stage CP'd worse.
Sheik: Fox, but Falco's no worse then even.
Falcon: Falco, but both **** his **** so go crazy.
Peach: Fox.
Jigglypuff: Fox.
Everyone else gets beaten by both, though Fox is the better choice against ICs and Samus.

Thanks for the tips! but i have to disagree with the marth part, i believe that falco is better, sure falco can get glimped, however falco can glimp too, also falco's laser really mess up marth in a big map or small map, i think falco is a better choice, but fax can still mess marth up pretty bad.


PS: the first one's are the best!
Fox-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAmthNm61PA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojMr017fVIM

Falco-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY1YGUP3l_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pYIadEGBsc

 

[Fletch]

For characters solely, it's usually advisable to:
Fox: This is up in the air, considering obviously you can ditto and be even or you can go Falco, where people aren't sure where it's even or advantaged.
Falco: See above.
Marth: Fox, he has a very slight advantage, Falco goes even but gets stage CP'd worse.
Sheik: Fox, but Falco's no worse then even.
Falcon: Falco, but both **** his **** so go crazy.
Peach: Fox.
Jigglypuff: Fox.
Everyone else gets beaten by both, though Fox is the better choice against ICs and Samus.

Agreed with this for the most part, except I would say definitely Falco against Fox or Falco, and I think Falco has a better matchup vs. Sheik. Anything outside the high tiers though Fox seems to do better, Falco has some weird matchups which can cause problems such as the aforementioned ICs and Samus.

 

[Bets]

Fox has good matche ups for most characters. I'd prefere fox over falco because you can make most chars your ***** after getting shine in. The same can be said for falco but not as many characters. plus the pressure a falco can put on a character doesn't apply to all characters [jiggs]

 

[young wus]

Fox has good matche ups for most characters. I'd prefere fox over falco because you can make most chars your ***** after getting shine in. The same can be said for falco but not as many characters. plus the pressure a falco can put on a character doesn't apply to all characters [jiggs]

I ****ing hate fighting jiggs....... stupid *****!!!

 

[Miggz]

Well I don't play Falco at all. Just Fox.

 

[young wus]

Well I don't play Falco at all. Just Fox.

Falco is very similar to fox, just slower in sum ways........ i never played either of them, then i played falco, and fox was so easy to learn, just because fox is fast in the timing of sum moves( Waveshine, Neutral 2 shine, Drill 2 Shine, etc!), also the fact that fox kill VERY good by up airs and falco doesnt so much.

 

[rabbt]

I can't play Falco anymore after dedicating Fox. RSHL is hard, pillar is hard, wavedashing is even hard. Falco sucks.

 

[young wus]

I can't play Falco anymore after dedicating Fox. RSHL is hard, pillar is hard, wavedashing is even hard. Falco sucks.

Falco does not suck. just slower in timing on his moves. its quite easy if u focus, its just a slower timing. Of course ur not going to do as good as fox, but play falco for a day, and u'll get it all back.

PS: WTF does "RSHL" mean???

 

[tect]

RSHL: reverse short hop laser

 

[Mogwai]

Falco has the advantage against Fox on all neutrals that aren't named Final Destination.

Fox and Falco both have the advantage against Marth DEPENDING ON THE STAGE.

Fox has a slight advantage against Shiek, while Shiek is probably a 60/40 against Falco.

Falcon is ***** by both space animals.

Peach is at a a light disadvantage against Fox. Honestly the worst stages against her easily is FD, NOT Dream Land, since DL does a good job of eliminating her chain grab, AND gived the spacies platforms to work with. It does give problems for Falco, but the high ceiling makes hardly ANY difference for Fox.

Jigglypuff is beaten by Fox, but I personally have an easier time against her with Falco. I'm not consistent enough with Fox to camp as well as I'd like to, whereas I can camp extremely efficiently with Falco, plus Falco has his own gay combos vs Jigglypuff.

Against Samus I personally prefer Falco. Ics it's definitely in Fox's favor, ONLY because Falco is much more vulnerable/easy to exploit than Fox is. Both destroy the **** out of Ics when played correctly, but Falco has more obvious, glaring weaknesses, and is much easier to exploit than Fox. Unlike Fox, Falco doesn't have nearly as much room for error as Fox does, making it much easier to get grabs, and other various gayness on him than Fox.

My thoughts on your stuff:

Fox vs. Falco is currently about as even as you can get in a non-ditto matchup. The Falco advantage is a thing of yesterday, but it's still no worse than even for him on non-FD neutrals.

if you are saying Sheik has the advantage on Falco, I strongly disagree. The matchup is no worse than even, and I honestly think that Falco's edge on Sheik is noticeably bigger than Fox's edge.

Falco gives CF more trouble than Fox. They both give him trouble for the same reasons, but Falco ultimately has extra control on Falcon and more ways to force him into shield, which is where you **** him. He also punishes Falcon recovering high better with dair than Fox can.

Peach is at a pretty heavy disadvantage vs. Fox. Falco is about even vs. Peach.

I mostly agree with your other stuff on Marth, ICs, Jiggs, and Samoose.

In addition, Falco is better vs. DK, Bowser & Ganon, but is probably a little worse vs. the rest of the cast (maybe as good or a little better vs. Mario/Doc as well, this is debatable), though they should both be able to give everyone else the bizness.

 

[young wus]

RSHL: reverse short hop laser

WTF....... that is like the easiest thing to do with Falco!

PS: Thanks for tell me what it ment!

 

[young wus]

I dont get y ppl say Fox is a better match up vs marth, than falco. i think falco is better vs marth. maybe not by a lot but i think Falco performs better than fox, vs marth.

PS: **** i didnt notice that i double posted, my bad.

 

[Mogwai]

I think they're both roughly even with Marth for different reasons. *shrugs* I think people thought it was better for Fox for awhile due to running Powershield -> grab -> take Falco's stock, but once Falco starts adapting properly and not getting ps *****, I think it's as balanced as Fawks vs. Marf.

 

[young wus]

oh i see what you mean!

 

[Mogwai]

also, there are more really good fox players than really good falco players... by a lot... so it's easier to find Fox examples.

 

[Miggz]

oh i see what you mean!

Not to mention Falco's recovery as a whole is inferior to Fox's.

 

[young wus]

yah other than falco's recovery, i think he is pretty bad ***!

 

[rabbt]

Falco does not suck. just slower in timing on his moves. its quite easy if u focus, its just a slower timing. Of course ur not going to do as good as fox, but play falco for a day, and u'll get it all back.

PS: WTF does "RSHL" mean???

The internet needs tone of voice. I was saying I don't like playing Falco so much anymore because I'm too used to Fox.

I dont get y ppl say Fox is a better match up vs marth, than falco. i think falco is better vs marth. maybe not by a lot but i think Falco performs better than fox, vs marth.

PS: **** i didnt notice that i double posted, my bad.

Recovery. That's 90% of the reason why Fox has a better matchup against Mark. Falco pretty much dies if he gets knocked off stage (by anyone, not just Mars) whereas Fox is usually fine. Also, Falco has weird timing. Manuel sucks.

 

[Mogwai]

against most characters that matter, Fox and Falco are pretty close to equally dead when getting knocked off the stage. Sure, Falco is more dead, but Fox below stage with no jump is usually still dead against good top/high tier players.

 

[young wus]

I still say Falco is beast against marth........ even if he can get killed quick.

 

[rabbt]

against most characters that matter, Fox and Falco are pretty close to equally dead when getting knocked off the stage. Sure, Falco is more dead, but Fox below stage with no jump is usually still dead against good top/high tier players.

You clearly haven't seen my teching abilities. I may not be able to kill anyone, but I live for a **** long time.

 

[Mogwai]

well, Falco and Fox are equally good at teching, so I fail to see how this is relevant

 

[ArcNatural]

You clearly haven't seen my teching abilities. I may not be able to kill anyone, but I live for a **** long time.

Until you play someone that actually knows what they are doing. If a good player knows you plan on riding a wall on an edgegaurd they aren't about to let that happen. It's pretty easy for Marth to just run off overB (pretty much can't be teched) then kill you, or if your not spaced just time to hit over the stage. And if your spaced to have enough common sense after the first time to guess your going to ride and just edgehog you.

Besides a majority of the time you get edgeguarded as Fox/Falco with Marth it has to do with them either jabbing (which knocks you away from the stage) or just dropping off and fairing you out of your firefox. Most Marth's don't stay on the stage in those situations (if they do, they are just stupid).

So I'm going with Mogwai here, Fox and Falco are usually equally screwed when off the stage. The only advantage Fox really has is he can actually firefox high and above the stage and actually go somewhere with it, where Marth would have to predict and jump far out, with Falco your usually screwed out of this option.

 

[young wus]

U maybe able to run but u cant hide.

 

[rabbt]

Until you play someone that actually knows what they are doing.

Scar. Pakman. Cactuar. RoyKid. Beat. Yayo. Should I continue? I play with them often enough, and I can still tech most of the time (unless I miss my recovery).

If a good player knows you plan on riding a wall on an edgegaurd they aren't about to let that happen. It's pretty easy for Marth to just run off overB (pretty much can't be teched) then kill you, or if your not spaced just time to hit over the stage. And if your spaced to have enough common sense after the first time to guess your going to ride and just edgehog you.

Besides a majority of the time you get edgeguarded as Fox/Falco with Marth it has to do with them either jabbing (which knocks you away from the stage) or just dropping off and fairing you out of your firefox. Most Marth's don't stay on the stage in those situations (if they do, they are just stupid).

So I'm going with Mogwai here, Fox and Falco are usually equally screwed when off the stage. The only advantage Fox really has is he can actually firefox high and above the stage and actually go somewhere with it, where Marth would have to predict and jump far out, with Falco your usually screwed out of this option.

That's why you don't ride the wall. I recover from below stage, and if I get hit, SDI and tech. With Fox, it's possible to recover from low enough that a Marth would be hard pressed to gimp and recover. The M2K wavedash off fair to the stage can be teched. Anything Falcon does is easy to tech. Getting shined is easy enough if they try to shinespike, too.

 

[young wus]

what does "SDI" mean???

 

[Mogwai]

smash DI

DI = directional influence

SDI is moving your character while you are in hitlag by smashing the control stick.

 

[young wus]

smash DI

DI = directional influence

SDI is moving your character while you are in hitlag by smashing the control stick.

Is smash DI better than regular DI???

 

[Mogwai]

well, it's just different. They work best when coupled together

smash DI just lets you do cool things like tech things you otherwise couldn't.

 

[rabbt]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218&highlight=SDI

 

[young wus]

thx for the thread!

Dam DI stuff is intense!

 

[Ryan-K]

using fox or falco depends on whether you like dittoing or not.

statistically fox is better because he does better against characters like peach/jiggs etc than falco does but falco does better against cf and ganon but it still comes down to preference, like i do alot better against peach and jiggs with falco than fox, and i do alot better against marth with fox than falco. I also **** falco with fox and suck with fox dittos.

tl;dr comes down to comfort level like everything in this game.