Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[Darxmarth23]

i agree whats the point?

The point is to stop sitting on your crack worrying about this stuff.

Yeah but should we even really be discussing this? I mean, the game hasn't even been out that long - we can't just say that we have discovered every possible metagame out there...eventually maybe there will be a character that becomes even better than him. We can't plan for the future. Can't we just wait a while before we go out and try to ban characters? I mean...items and stages are one thing, but characters? Where will it end after that? Will people want to ban the next character below when mk is gone? As long as there is a tier system, there will always be a character better than another, but for now, it's not that bad.

All I'm saying is no for now, just wait.

We're in the rush cause we're hungry.

If Mk gets banned snake won't. Yadda yadda yadda.

 

[BadAxel97]

Hungry for what?

 

[Kinzer]

Hungry for hot pockets.

*Still wish I was good enough to beat people who tried to CP MK on me and successfully win the set 'cause I'ma scrub*

 

[UberMario]

REL38, you couldn't have said it any better.

Yeah but should we even really be discussing this? I mean, the game hasn't even been out that long - we can't just say that we have discovered every possible metagame out there...eventually maybe there will be a character that becomes even better than him. We can't plan for the future. Can't we just wait a while before we go out and try to ban characters? I mean...items and stages are one thing, but characters? Where will it end after that? Will people want to ban the next character below when mk is gone? As long as there is a tier system, there will always be a character better than another, but for now, it's not that bad.

All I'm saying is no for now, just wait.

While I agree that the ban movement shouldn't have formed within a year, I suppose it's reasonable now that it's been about 15 months. I still see the tier list as incorrect to some degree. (Don't start an argument about this, most people don't perfectly agree with how the characters are listed.) Whenever (hopefully not) Meta-Knight is banned, people will complain about Snake etc. because they take the tier list 100% seriously. It's sad in that aspect, but unless you look at the list (and believe it (which I don't)) any battle can be one from skill an skill alone.

I'm not flaming tier lists, but people sometimes take them too seriously.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I vote no. As I began to play more and learn the matchup, I found it easier to play against metaknights. It seems like the majority of people who voted yes are inexperienced and probably have never been to a tournament. Although I'm not exactly saying this is true, it just seems like it.

Ugh... I'm sick of the stereotypes... I might as well list all the ones I've heard (and still remember) in this thread:

1. No one who voted pro-ban has ever been to a tournament.
2. Probably 1/4 of the people who voted pro-ban are alts.
3. No one one who voted pro-ban played Melee competitively.
4. Everyone who voted pro-ban is a Republican. (Yes, this was Yuna.)
5. All the people who voted pro-ban are online players.
6. All the people who voted pro-ban are inexperienced.
7. All the people who voted pro-ban have late 08-09 accounts.
8. All the people who voted pro-ban are low tier mains.
9. All the people who voted pro-ban don't know their matchups at all.
10. All the people who voted pro-ban are butthurt about losing to their friend/sibling/mailman/lion tamer.
11.No one who voted pro-ban has tried to get better against Metaknight.
12. Everyone who voted pro-ban has a freakishly hard time against Metaknight.
13. All the people who voted pro-ban are unintelligent.
14. The pro-ban vote is more of a bandwagon vote more than anything else.
15. All the people who voted pro-ban want to ban Snake/Diddy/Ice Climbers/Geno from Brawl eventually as well.
16. Everyone who voted pro-ban loses to Metaknight on a regular basis.
17. Everyone who voted pro-ban plays as a character that has a 20-80/30-70 match up against him.
18. Everyone who voted pro-ban simply did it to see if Mew2King would really quit or not.
19. Everyone who voted pro-ban comes from an area where Metaknight dominates.
20. Everyone who voted pro-ban is trying to force people to go to Melee/Brawl+/online/Imaginez Babyz instead.

 

[BadAxel97]

(btw I'm a Marth player so I'm not defending MK because I play as him)

 

[BBQTV]

I like MK i dont want people to say i suck because i use MK i use others like bowser lucario pikachu marth and fox and my best is lulu lulu=lucario when i heard MK was going to be in brawl i thought that was awesome he's a cool character and some people want to take him away one day will look back on this and laugh

 

[Darxmarth23]

Hungry for what?

cake.

I main Mk and I want him banned. I **** local tourneys in Missouri. I love Mk. But its just not quite healthy for the game. If you want something that is even closed to being balanced, you would play with the rest of the cast. And mks spam wave never helped.

Right now we just need time for other characters to catch up. And if they don't, then Mk deserves to stay banned.

With mk, and mk only i can have my cake and eat it too.

 

[BadAxel97]

Ugh... I'm sick of the stereotypes... I might as well list all the ones I've heard (and still remember) in this thread:

1. No one who voted pro-ban has ever been to a tournament.
2. Probably 1/4 of the people who voted pro-ban are alts.
3. No one one who voted pro-ban played Melee competitively.
4. Everyone who voted pro-ban is a Republican. (Yes, this was Yuna.)
5. All the people who voted pro-ban are online players.
6. All the people who voted pro-ban are inexperienced.
7. All the people who voted pro-ban have late 08-09 accounts.
8. All the people who voted pro-ban are low tier mains.
9. All the people who voted pro-ban don't know their matchups at all.
10. All the people who voted pro-ban are butthurt about losing to their friend/sibling/mailman/lion tamer.
11.No one who voted pro-ban has tried to get better against Metaknight.
12. Everyone who voted pro-ban has a freakishly hard time against Metaknight.
13. All the people who voted pro-ban are unintelligent.
14. The pro-ban vote is more of a bandwagon vote more than anything else.
15. All the people who voted pro-ban want to ban Snake/Diddy/Ice Climbers/Geno from Brawl eventually as well.
16. Everyone who voted pro-ban loses to Metaknight on a regular basis.
17. Everyone who voted pro-ban plays as a character that has a 20-80/30-70 match up against him.
18. Everyone who voted pro-ban simply did it to see if Mew2King would really quit or not.
19. Everyone who voted pro-ban comes from an area where Metaknight dominates.
20. Everyone who voted pro-ban is trying to force people to go to Melee/Brawl+/online/Imaginez Babyz instead.

lion tamer?

 

[Sinz]

Your assuming that everything follows chaos theory which it doesn't. That was the view on the previous three votes. We have waited, and metaknight still has yet to be found to go truly even with any character(I am talking 50-50, not 55-45) and he has no bad match ups. That still hasn't changed. The game is more fun without him. Trust me, it is. I live in a state that bans him. I love it. And by the way, even though we banned him, we still beat out every metaknight that came to Supercon.

Snake isn't a problem, because he has bad match ups(which by the way are usually taken out by metaknight.) So, if metaknight becomes banned, the meta will become more diverse.

 

[Kinzer]

Oh... finally I get an infraction in this God-forsaken thread... I'm surprised I lasted this long though.

Anyway

lion tamer?

FMOI is poking at how people can get pissed off when they lose to MK and everybody around them seems to be playing him/CPing him.

How's that for a legit post? :/

 

[UberMario]

Ugh... I'm sick of the stereotypes... I might as well list all the ones I've heard (and still remember) in this thread:

1. No one who voted pro-ban has ever been to a tournament.
2. Probably 1/4 of the people who voted pro-ban are alts.
3. No one one who voted pro-ban played Melee competitively.
4. Everyone who voted pro-ban is a Republican. (Yes, this was Yuna.)
5. All the people who voted pro-ban are online players.
6. All the people who voted pro-ban are inexperienced.
7. All the people who voted pro-ban have late 08-09 accounts.
8. All the people who voted pro-ban are low tier mains.
9. All the people who voted pro-ban don't know their matchups at all.
10. All the people who voted pro-ban are butthurt about losing to their friend/sibling/mailman/lion tamer.
11.No one who voted pro-ban has tried to get better against Metaknight.
12. Everyone who voted pro-ban has a freakishly hard time against Metaknight.
13. All the people who voted pro-ban are unintelligent.
14. The pro-ban vote is more of a bandwagon vote more than anything else.
15. All the people who voted pro-ban want to ban Snake/Diddy/Ice Climbers/Geno from Brawl eventually as well.
16. Everyone who voted pro-ban loses to Metaknight on a regular basis.
17. Everyone who voted pro-ban plays as a character that has a 20-80/30-70 match up against him.
18. Everyone who voted pro-ban simply did it to see if Mew2King would really quit or not.
19. Everyone who voted pro-ban comes from an area where Metaknight dominates.
20. Everyone who voted pro-ban is trying to force people to go to Melee/Brawl+/online/Imaginez Babyz instead.

4. That better be a really bad joke.
13. Isn't that a little harsh?

And don't 3 and 20 conflict each other?

Otherwise, interesting way to put it, though it's slightly offensive.

 

[Darxmarth23]

did anyone get my cake thing?

 

[BadAxel97]

Really?
I have only met 1 MK player where I'm from, and he's not very good...
=.= I wish I could play with good meta knights...

 

[BBQTV]

Hungry for hot pockets.

*Still wish I was good enough to beat people who tried to CP MK on me and successfully win the set 'cause I'ma scrub*

steak

cake.

I main Mk and I want him banned. I **** local tourneys in Missouri. I love Mk. But its just not quite healthy for the game. If you want something that is even closed to being balanced, you would play with the rest of the cast. And mks spam wave never helped.

Right now we just need time for other characters to catch up. And if they don't, then Mk deserves to stay banned.

With mk, and mk only i can have my cake and eat it too.

some people who use MK want him bannd well no more **** if no more MK

 

[BBQTV]

did anyone get my cake thing?

cake is a lie [sorry for the double post]

 

[Kinzer]

Really?
I have only met 1 MK player where I'm from, and he's not very good...
=.= I wish I could play with good meta knights...

It's a stereotype, it's not really suppose to reflect on anything.

Though I can't disagree that it isn't true... Like I said in the post before my previous, I sometimes deal with people who don't actually main MK, have other characters they play better with/main, and I still lose to them only because I'm bad at this game.

 

[UberMario]

Really?
I have only met 1 MK player where I'm from, and he's not very good...
=.= I wish I could play with good meta knights...

Do you have wi-fi? There are plenty here.

Wait, how can you be arguing about MK if you haven't played a good one?
You're kind of hurting your chances of people believeing you. (No offense)

 

[Darxmarth23]

cake is a lie [sorry for the double post]

its got that boom boom pow.

 

[Sinz]

its not like someone's opinion will actually get changed. People are biased in their beliefs. :/

But seriously, MK free is the way to be.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Honestly, what it all comes down to is evidence. And since this community seems to be lazy about about rethinking how we deal with match-ups, it might never happen.

What're we gonna do?


We'll never know if MK is really banworthy or not, because we don't have the knowledge to decide.

cake.

I main Mk and I want him banned. I **** local tourneys in Missouri. I love Mk. But its just not quite healthy for the game. If you want something that is even closed to being balanced, you would play with the rest of the cast. And mks spam wave never helped.

Right now we just need time for other characters to catch up. And if they don't, then Mk deserves to stay banned.

With mk, and mk only i can have my cake and eat it too.

The cake is a lie.

Ugh... I'm sick of the stereotypes... I might as well list all the ones I've heard (and still remember) in this thread:

1. No one who voted pro-ban has ever been to a tournament.
2. Probably 1/4 of the people who voted pro-ban are alts.
3. No one one who voted pro-ban played Melee competitively.
4. Everyone who voted pro-ban is a Republican. (Yes, this was Yuna.)
5. All the people who voted pro-ban are online players.
6. All the people who voted pro-ban are inexperienced.
7. All the people who voted pro-ban have late 08-09 accounts.
8. All the people who voted pro-ban are low tier mains.
9. All the people who voted pro-ban don't know their matchups at all.
10. All the people who voted pro-ban are butthurt about losing to their friend/sibling/mailman/lion tamer.
11.No one who voted pro-ban has tried to get better against Metaknight.
12. Everyone who voted pro-ban has a freakishly hard time against Metaknight.
13. All the people who voted pro-ban are unintelligent.
14. The pro-ban vote is more of a bandwagon vote more than anything else.
15. All the people who voted pro-ban want to ban Snake/Diddy/Ice Climbers/Geno from Brawl eventually as well.
16. Everyone who voted pro-ban loses to Metaknight on a regular basis.
17. Everyone who voted pro-ban plays as a character that has a 20-80/30-70 match up against him.
18. Everyone who voted pro-ban simply did it to see if Mew2King would really quit or not.
19. Everyone who voted pro-ban comes from an area where Metaknight dominates.
20. Everyone who voted pro-ban is trying to force people to go to Melee/Brawl+/online/Imaginez Babyz instead.

What? No anti-ban stereotypes too? I'm disappointed.

 

[BadAxel97]

It's a stereotype, it's not really suppose to reflect on anything.

Though I can't disagree that it isn't true... Like I said in the post before my previous, I sometimes deal with people who don't actually main MK, have other characters they play better with/main, and I still lose to them only because I'm bad at this game.

No, I mean I realize that statistically Meta Knight is very good.
And I've seen youtube vids of people playing very good as him.
It's just that I really wish that I could play against someone who is good with him.

 

[Darxmarth23]

steak


some people who use MK want him bannd well no more **** if no more MK

Fine by me.

I've got a marth with really awesome hair.

 

[Fatmanonice]

4. That better be a really bad joke.
13. Isn't that a little harsh?

And don't 3 and 20 conflict each other?

Otherwise, interesting way to put it, though it's slightly offensive.

They may conflict with each other but it doesn't really matter because these have come from different people. Also regarding number 4, considering it's Yuna who said it... >_>'

@ adumbrodeus:

I can't really think of anything said by the pro-ban side that has been repeated over and over again when it comes to stereotypes. Maybe somebody on the anti side has been keeping track of them?

 

[Nic64]

Right now we just need time for other characters to catch up. And if they don't, then Mk deserves to stay banned.

Banning him doesn't make "other characters catch up", if anything having to deal with a semi broken character constantly drives development. Meta Knight either deserves to be banned or he doesn't, a temp ban is only justifiable as a trial to see if everyone likes it more, it can not be justified by "well maybe other characters will get better without him around".

 

[Kinzer]

No, I mean I realize that statistically Meta Knight is very good.
And I've seen youtube vids of people playing very good as him.
It's just that I really wish that I could play against someone who is good with him.

Oh.

Eh... he's not hard to pick up and get good with... he's not like AT-crazy like Snake or Pit or whatever where you just need a basic knowledge of the game and you're set.

If you REALLY want that kind of experience (It will help you later on actually), just get somebody who is a good player and request them to use MK on you... some might be more reluctant than others, but deep down anybody can use MK.

 

[BadAxel97]

Do you have wi-fi? There are plenty here.

Wait, how can you be arguing about MK if you haven't played a good one?
You're kind of hurting your chances of people believeing you. (No offense)

Wouldn't that make me the most un-biased decision?
lol, I realize why people would want him banned though, based on his stats and all.
But I prefer to fight against people better than me anyway.
You learn more from losses than wins.

 

[BBQTV]

Fine by me.

I've got a marth with really awesome hair.

true that true that.

 

[BadAxel97]

Oh.

Eh... he's not hard to pick up and get good with... he's not like AT-crazy like Snake or Pit or whatever where you just need a basic knowledge of the game and you're set.

If you REALLY want that kind of experience (It will help you later on actually), just get somebody who is a good player and request them to use MK on you... some might be more reluctant than others, but deep down anybody can use MK.

That's the problem...I've met 0 good players in my life...
=.= sort of disappointing...

 

[Anthonysmash]

This thread has been taken over by trolls from Ohio, evidently. Ah well, kinda glad that the poll isn't conclusively going to ban MK. My work here is done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TLFhggGOeI

 

[Darxmarth23]

Banning him doesn't make "other characters catch up", if anything having to deal with a semi broken character constantly drives development. Meta Knight either deserves to be banned or he doesn't, a temp ban is only justifiable as a trial to see if everyone likes it more, it can not be justified by "well maybe other characters will get better without him around".

Well other people would enjoy the game without him right?

It would be Mks spam wave against low tier crap.

Character viability would go up for some. Others would stay the same.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That's the problem...I've met 0 good players in my life...
=.= sort of disappointing...

Do you play on wifi? Go to the OTL board and I can introduce you to some good players if you're interested.

 

[UberMario]

Wouldn't that make me the most un-biased decision?
lol, I realize why people would want him banned though, based on his stats and all.
But I prefer to fight against people better than me anyway.
You learn more from losses than wins.

No, but not knowing how he plays to his fullest potential makes being a debater on the subject problematic.

It's kind of hard to describe, but it's mostly the lack of knowledge on the subject which makes whatever your choice is seem biased.

A person that plays constantly against Meta-Knight is less likely to be biased, or so it should be.

 

[BadAxel97]

Do you play on wifi? Go to the OTL board and I can introduce you to some good players if you're interested.

As much as I would love that...wifi = 0
Which is why I haven't played any good meta knights probably...
thanks for the offer though.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Banning him doesn't make "other characters catch up", if anything having to deal with a semi broken character constantly drives development. Meta Knight either deserves to be banned or he doesn't, a temp ban is only justifiable as a trial to see if everyone likes it more, it can not be justified by "well maybe other characters will get better without him around".

Spoiler

*secret high-five for having Geno in your avatar*

I believe that Metaknight has driven the metagame of only a few characters: Snake, Diddy, and the Ice Climbers (maybe Wario but he seems the most "rounded" of the top/high tier characters when it comes to match up experience of the players). Everyone else has either significantly slowed down or is getting worse at the moment.

Regardless, I still agree that a temp-ban would be a waste of time because we already know the end result.

@ Badaxel:

Wifi sucks at first but it definately becomes better once you adjust to the lag and find a decent number of players with compatible internet connections.

 

[UberMario]

As much as I would love that...wifi = 0
Which is why I haven't played any good meta knights probably...
thanks for the offer though.

So do you have Wi-Fi or not?

Your reply was kind of vague.

How many players (offline) have you played though? It would give us a good idea why you've only met one MK.

 

[BadAxel97]

So do you have Wi-Fi or not?

Your reply was kind of vague.

How many players (offline) have you played though? It would give us a good idea why you've only met one MK.

No wifi.
Offline, I've only been to like 3 tourneys.
Where I am, there are no good smash players. A couple hour drive, there might be, but I haven't checked it out...lol

 

[AvaricePanda]

Your assuming that everything follows chaos theory which it doesn't. That was the view on the previous three votes. We have waited, and metaknight still has yet to be found to go truly even with any character(I am talking 50-50, not 55-45) and he has no bad match ups. That still hasn't changed. The game is more fun without him. Trust me, it is. I live in a state that bans him. I love it. And by the way, even though we banned him, we still beat out every metaknight that came to Supercon.

Snake isn't a problem, because he has bad match ups(which by the way are usually taken out by metaknight.) So, if metaknight becomes banned, the meta will become more diverse.

1) Define what a truly even match-up is.
2) Name a match-up that's truly even.
3) Explain how you know that MK has no truly even match-ups, or match-ups that aren't close enough to the point where the better player wins (Ally says hi)?
4) Explain how match-ups like Diddy vs. MK, which has been gradually going into Diddy's favor and there's known (not theorycrafted ideas, known ATS) that can propel him further into the match-up once mastered, can't possibly be even or worse for MK in the future, if they aren't already now.
5) Explain how the counter-pick system is used enough at high levels of play for him having a bad match-up to even matter.
6) Explain how there are other fighting games with healthy competitive communities yet a top character with no universal bad match-ups?

Fun is subjective.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

wheres the anti-ban stereotypes?
i play low tier and dosent afraid of anything...

 

[Sosuke]

All anti-ban main MK.