Forget it, I'm counter-picking

[Pierce7d]

Link to original post: [drupal=1521]Forget it, I'm counter-picking[/drupal]



So, I'm getting a little tired of all the headache my **** Ash Ketchum mentality was giving me. I've finally come to accept that I'm simply not going to win a tournament going all Marth. Yes, I'm extremely proficient in the MK match-up. But getting cocky and then losing to a N00b MK placing 9th and losing my ticket to guaranteed third really opened my eyes to some stuff (Neo, you were right, I'll heed you better next time).

I play a pretty proficient Falco, G&W, Marth, and MK (and Mario). Furthermore, it wouldn't take me long to pick up D3. I'm already interested learning Snake, Pikachu, Peach, Diddy, and R.O.B.

My Falco covers all of Marth's bad match-ups except MK. Furthermore, Falco has a better match-up vs. MK than Marth does. Falco is my third best character (Mario is my second, but he doesn't have the tools I need to compete.)

WHY THE HELL DON'T I USE FALCO? I owe nothing to anybody. This is real money on the line here. There's no reason I should have to go up against DK, D3, or Snake mains, crapping my pants, and busting my behind, just to pull off a W.

The fact of the matter is, even if SBR bans MK, he's not going to get banned in NJ. He's too popular here, and the TOs won't allow it. I'm back on the fence about the ban issue, because I'm seeing how Diddy, possibly Wario, and possibly Falco can combat him. I'm recently of the mindset that MK beats Snake 6:4, and it's not even at.

I live in NJ. Top players are M2k, then Atmosk, then ADHD, then Inui, then Ksizzle, then DMBrandon. That's 5 MKs, a D3, and a Diddy. Assuming we agree that MK is 65-35, it's not feasible for me to imagine placing 2nd (naturally M2k is auto-lose, lmao). I've beaten all of these players before (except M2k), but to do it consistently and consecutively using Marth exclusively? Not happening. Then, Atomsk is one of the TOP D3s in the country, and he already has a positive vs. Marth. So, out of the 6 players ranked above me, I have a positive match-up vs. one of them. ADHD is possibly the best Diddy (though, Ninjalink adapts better). He helps me cut through MKs (thank god for you ADHD) so that I don't have to do it by myself, but then it's not exactly like he's a pushover match-up either.

Let's face it, whenever I come home from a tournament, my mom asks me if I won any money. I say no, and explain that it's not a waste of money, because I enjoy playing Smash, and the smash community (usually) and it's like going to the movies for some people, so it's not really a waste. One day, she asks me, "Son, you practice this game all the time, and I always see you winning here, and everyone says you're so good. Why don't you win any money?" I proceed to explain to her that there was this character named MK, who just beats Marth pretty well and he was the best character. She then proceed to ask the obvious question, but for some reason, I couldn't find a good answer. "Well then, why don't YOU play MK?" " . . . "

I frequently have to scrape at nothing, and dive into Marth's untapped potential, expanding his metagame. I have no one to help me evolve faster. The only other good Marth players are in Maryland, Texas, and Cali, and we share tips when we can, but it's really not the same as MKs who are all grouped together, and learning off each other at a rapid pace, especially when M2k is at most of your tournaments. Marth Backroom is really a blessing, because it helps me keep going, knowing that there are people out there who look at my failures as successes, and take the knowledge and things I discover and put it to good use. Every once in a while, someone comes up with something really useful, that helps a bit. It's still 65-35, 60-40 at best.

All around, it's like a fake battle that I seem to be losing. Marth vs. MK everywhere, and the Marths are dropping like flies, while the MKs are increasing in rank. It just keeps getting worse, because every time I look over my shoulder, someone else is using MK. Quite frankly, it's getting kinda boring, and I probably would've quit Smash by now if it wasn't for my crew. I'm not making enough money off of Smash to fund it, even though I have the skill and the knowledge. At the end of the day, Marth is letting me fly, but he's also holding me back.

This morning, I asked myself why I play Marth exclusively. I realized that I have a false sense of debt to Marth, and that I'm also very lazy. I felt as if I owed it to Marth to stay loyal to him, since he helped me get this far. However, my brother destroying me in draft crews last weekend (he knows the MK Marth match-up as well as I do, and he's on the better side of it) opened my eyes. As soon as MKs figure out what to do, I'm screwed. I should prepare NOW. I also realized that I just put a lot of effort into Marth, and I didn't want to master other characters because it would take a lot of work. However, when I really look at it, I'm pretty proficient, and Brawl is really easy. I know STUPID amounts of data, including frame data, for most characters, and if I would just take a step out of my comfort zone, I could become extremely skilled in a short matter of time, and the payoff would far exceed the work. Plus, it's FUN to not use Marth, ALL the time.

I'll probably use Marth for most of my matches, but have the ability to counter-pick is really powerful. I am handicapping myself by not using all the tools at my disposal. Part of getting better at the game is mastering several characters, not just one. Also, using different characters helps you understand your opponent better. Knowing where the lag on your opponent's moves is helps you figure out how to punish them. I discovered just yesterday while training my chimp that if Diddy whiffs an aerial and doesn't auto-cancel, he's screwed (except Bair).

Everyone, watch out. Marth isn't alone anymore. I'm still going to main him, and use him in most match-ups, but it's pretty dumb to make him bear so much weight. We've got back-up. From now on, when you pick Frigate Orpheon, I'm going Mr. Game and Watch. Screw this getting gimped crap.

And maybe . . . just maybe, you guys might see Mario coming out to play. I got your back Boss.

 

[pokesmashfighter]

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Pierce7d]

Thanks. I appreciate that.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Thanks. I appreciate that.

I got your back Pierce. I realized this myself, so I'm in the process of picking a second.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Good luck Pierce.

I need a secondary too.

Where's Spam from?

 

[Teran]

As long as you win more.

The annoying thing about training a secondary is that you might neglect your main a bit. Never neglect!

 

[Pr0phetic]

Good luck Pierce.

I need a secondary too.

Where's Spam from?

New Jersey aswell. I'm deciding between D3 and Falco. D3 is easy to pick up, I'm already decent with him too. However, Falco beats everyone else a lil better, but to get good with him is harder, and my mans Phresh already mains him.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

But Spam's amazing, why isn't he on Pierce's list of the best NJ players?

He's better than Inui.

 

[Pr0phetic]

But Spam's amazing, why isn't he on Pierce's list of the best NJ players?

He's better than Inui.

He's always in some hiatus, and supposedly he's sexier then Pierce.

 

[Asdioh]

I heard that he doesn't play BARLW singles anymore.


Anyway, replace "Marth" with "Kirby" and I know exactly how you feel. I'm still too stubborn though: I have never used anyone but Kirby in a tournament singles set, and I only changed characters in doubles like twice since we had no chance of winning anyway (went Fox or Falcon =D)

Good luck

 

[Pr0phetic]

Eh, I've decided on Falco, and have DeDeDe as my second secondary. And Pierce I COMPLETELY feel for you on the mother situation, aye.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Yeah, that's right, PICK UP MARIO! Lots of people are all of a sudden.

I'm the same way as you were, and I refuse to use anybody other than Mario because I like the plumber wayyyyyy too much.

 

[Pierce7d]

Yeah, that's right, PICK UP MARIO! Lots of people are all of a sudden.

I'm the same way as you were, and I refuse to use anybody other than Mario because I like the plumber wayyyyyy too much.

I already play an extremely good Mario. Perhaps I'll upload replays sometime. Mario is really limited in some ways, but I like the challenge, and he's very FUN.

Spam is from NJ, but unfortunately he doesn't play this game anymore. You can probably expect to see him at big tournaments, so he can win some money, but he's no longer active. Yes, he is better than me.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I already play an extremely good Mario. Perhaps I'll upload replays sometime. Mario is really limited in some ways, but I like the challenge, and he's very FUN.

Spam is from NJ, but unfortunately he doesn't play this game anymore. You can probably expect to see him at big tournaments, so he can win some money, but he's no longer active. Yes, he is better than me.

Pierce are you mentoring anybody currently right now anyway? I wanna see your Mario too.

 

[Punishment Divine]

I feel you Pierce. Your Marth is really amazing though so I'm glad you're not dropping him totally.

I decided about 2 weeks ago that I'm gonna pick Snake up again. I might pick some other characters up if I start feeling uncomfortable with other matchups, but my Snake is already pretty good from when I played him and he's easy enough as it is LOL

How far away are you gonna be from APEX btw? I wanna play you again and so does Will lol so if you have ride johns and you need a ride or something, you can talk to me on AIM about it

 

[Pierce7d]

At the moment, no. I mean, I always give out advice to try and improve everyone. I don't like hoarding knowledge, unless the opponent is already capable of beating me, and the informations anti-Marth (I don't wanna teach MKs all the broken ways they have to destroy Marth, do I?) But no, I don't have an "apprentice" atm. My crew mates have graduated past apprenticeship.

It's sad. People continuously talk about how this game isn't balanced, etc, but that's hardly true. Wario, Diddy, Marth, Falco, D3, and Snake would ALL have the potential to win a tournament if MK wasn't so broken. Possible ZSS and Olimar too, and maybe even Kirby, once MK is out the mix. Most other characters fall to a gimmick of some sort, like D3's chaingrab destroying them, or an inability to deal with Falco's camp game, or just straight up inferior stats to Snake. Unfortunately only Diddy can really fight him toe-to-toe, and if he loses the neutral, it's over. MK just goes to counter-pick city, and selects one of many stages where he wrecks Diddy (Brinstar, Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, possibly Halberd, Delfino, Frigate). Enough to occupy a grand finals set, that's for sure.

A lot of people are surprised to see that I was pro-ban for a while (I'm back on the fence now, Diddy has persuaded me, but I hope there are more of them, and that MK doesn't figure him out too.) When I really look back though, before, I was anti-ban because I wanted the opportunity to be a hero. I wanted to show that in tournament, Marth can beat MK. Have I done that? Yes, I think I have. I'm well respected in my region, and well known for being highly knowledgeable (but anyone can do what I did, and just read, and come to intelligent conclusions by keeping an open mind). I've beaten every MK in this region except M2k with Marth. I went onto the next step, trying to be the best there ever was. However, I'm pretty complacent now, realizing that it's highly probably I'll never surpass Neo. There is simply something I haven't matured enough to figure out yet, and I don't know where to look. Perhaps one day, I'll discover it, and be that good, but like many pros, Neo was a Melee vet, and has years of experience on me. One of the reasons I'm so celebrated, is that I got into competative Melee REALLY late, and therefore had very little skill to transfer over to Brawl. Plus, some people are just straight up better than me. I no longer wish to try and compete with Neo and Roy_R and MikeHaze, and Boa, and Bardull, and Azen, and Kadaj (and Meep is so under-appreciated) for title of best Marth. Becoming the best player I can be is a better accomplishment.

Sure, I've beaten the players. I set out to do what I accomplished. But when it comes down to it, I discovered something that I really needed to accept for a long time. It's like I went on a secret journey, trying to find some hidden power, and at last, I did, but it wasn't what I expected. What I did find, wasn't the golden treasure I sought, it was the silver lining of truth.
There is no hidden power Marth possess to alter his match-up vs. MK. No matter how hard I try, I cannot change that number from 60-40 or worse, to something that it isn't. However,, I now know, it's OKAY to play other characters too. It's even OKAY to use MK, if you wish.

Will I use MK in tourney? Yes. I won't main him, but I'll use him sometimes. Using MK exclusively isn't smart either, when you can pick a character with a better match-up. Why would I use MK vs. Diddy or Falco, Olimar, or G&W, or Lucario, when I have Marth? Why use MK vs. Snake, or D3, or DK, when I have Falco? (btw, Tornado spam doesn't really work) I'll use MK for fun. I'll use him when facing situations I don't understand, but my Marth is still by far my most accomplished soldier. I'll simply have to learn to use all the resources at my disposal. R3 and my opponent counter-picks me with a random stage I'm not comfortable on? That's when I'll whip out MK.

This will also make doubles really fun, since I have a good G&W.

So, no worries. I'm still a Marth main. Marth still guides me, and leads me to victory. However, I realize now that I'll sometimes prefer a laser gun to a sword, especially when fighting giant gorillas and penguins wielding hammers.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Sounds good Pierce.

I cannot find a secondary that I like that's any good right now. Maybe Falco? I used to use him, but idk... Lucario? I have a decent one. I feel bad using MK, but he's my second best character, so I may after all ave to resort to him sometimes.

 

[Pierce7d]

Double posting in my blog. Get over it. This is completely seperate from my last post, and talks about something different, so for organization purposes, it's better to keep this seperate.

I can't upload videos, as I don't have the equipment or the know-how. Anyone who wants replays (I save everything I can) can PM me their friend code and Wii code, and take mine from any of these posts (it's on the left). I'll send you stuff, I enjoy showing off when the time is appropriate.

Also, I live in North Jersey. It's an hour -> 1:15 minutes away. It'll be tricky for me to get there/back, y'know. I'm TRYING to figure out something for Sunday, but my plan A got grounded so . . . things look glum. We'll have to see what happens. I highly doubt you want to do the extra 2 hours just to grab me. I'm good, but I'm not THAT good, lol. I MAY see about finding my way to DM's house Saturday night, which is closer, and then getting a ride/finding a way from there, since it's only about 40 minutes from the venue.

Also, if ADHD is going (which I can't imagine he won't) I might get a ride home from him. I won't be able to make it Saturday, but he can probably take me home (or at least close enough for me to call in a favor from a friend to grab me the rest of the way) on Sunday.

So perhaps if I magically make it to DM's house Saturday night (that will be fun no homo), then I might ask you to pick me up from there Sunday Morning.

Solid, NEVER feel guilty about using MK. I never begrudge people that use MK against me. You are playing in competition for a prize and status. Using all the tools available to you is not a crime. It is your opponent's fault if they chose to play a different character. Let's say your opponent decides to use Link (I have a decent Link too btw). Would you feel bad using Marth? Marth destroys Link, but you're a Marth main. To the Link, it really doesn't matter if his opponent is Marth or MK, the end result is the same. What are you going to do, feel bad and main C. Falcon so everyone has an advantage on you? That's foolish and scrubish.

MK is not a sin, he's just a really broken character. I advise EVERYONE to use him until he gets banned, if you want to stand a reasonable chance at competing. Whenever I introduce people to the game, I encourage them to play MK. Being the best you can be and having the greatest chance of winning involves choosing MK. THAT is SAKURAI's fault, not yours, so don't feel guilty.

 

[:034:]

Before I start my bigass post, I'll say this - I agree with you. You're making the competitively right choice, you're going to become a better player for it and you're actually right.

My opinion is a little different, though. I play Ganondorf, currently the second-worst character in the game. I've mained him since I got the game, playing practically everybody on the side. But Ganon was the man for me, I love his playstyle, his destructive power and awesomeness... I have the most fun playing the game when playing as Ganondorf.

Like you, I asked myself the question "Why should I continue to main Ganondorf?" In tournament, there's no good reason to ever pick Ganondorf, ever. I won't win any tournies like this, so I also worked on DK and Wolf. When my first tourney came up, I used Ganondorf in the tourney, alongside with Wolf.

I got 65th out of 90-something people in singles, using mostly Wolf. In teams, using only Ganondorf (and Wolf, once) I got 17th out of 50 something teams (it was a Ganon/Ike team, by the way). I used Ganondorf mainly in friendlies, and when I got back and looked at the thread for the shout-outs, I saw a lot of shout-outs to me, because I mained Ganondorf. My Ganondorf was being praised, and not my Wolf, even though I used him the most in my tourney matches.

So, that's why I play Ganondorf. Without him, I would've been just a guy who got 65th in a tourney. I would've been nothing special. But now, I'm "the great Ganon player" and that, too, is something to be proud of. As for taking the victory, I'll just get better and keep placing higher.

Well, the European scene is different from the American one, so take my opinion with a grain of salt if you want.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Also, I live in North Jersey. It's an hour -> 1:15 minutes away. It'll be tricky for me to get there/back, y'know. I'm TRYING to figure out something for Sunday, but my plan A got grounded so . . . things look glum. We'll have to see what happens. I highly doubt you want to do the extra 2 hours just to grab me. I'm good, but I'm not THAT good, lol. I MAY see about finding my way to DM's house Saturday night, which is closer, and then getting a ride/finding a way from there, since it's only about 40 minutes from the venue.

Also, if ADHD is going (which I can't imagine he won't) I might get a ride home from him. I won't be able to make it Saturday, but he can probably take me home (or at least close enough for me to call in a favor from a friend to grab me the rest of the way) on Sunday.

So perhaps if I magically make it to DM's house Saturday night (that will be fun no homo), then I might ask you to pick me up from there Sunday Morning.

Lol it's not as much a matter of 'you're good' as it is i have much love for the Marth boards =)

And even if you're an hour away so long as the directions are easy it shouldn't be a problem lol

 

[MarKO X]

I proceed to explain to her [Pierce's mom] that there was this character named MK, who just beats Marth pretty well and he was the best character. She then proceed to ask the obvious question, but for some reason, I couldn't find a good answer. "Well then, why don't YOU play MK?" " . . . "

This is so a mother's day sig.

 

[Pierce7d]

Before I start my bigass post, I'll say this - I agree with you. You're making the competitively right choice, you're going to become a better player for it and you're actually right.

My opinion is a little different, though. I play Ganondorf, currently the second-worst character in the game. I've mained him since I got the game, playing practically everybody on the side. But Ganon was the man for me, I love his playstyle, his destructive power and awesomeness... I have the most fun playing the game when playing as Ganondorf.

Like you, I asked myself the question "Why should I continue to main Ganondorf?" In tournament, there's no good reason to ever pick Ganondorf, ever. I won't win any tournies like this, so I also worked on DK and Wolf. When my first tourney came up, I used Ganondorf in the tourney, alongside with Wolf.

I got 65th out of 90-something people in singles, using mostly Wolf. In teams, using only Ganondorf (and Wolf, once) I got 17th out of 50 something teams (it was a Ganon/Ike team, by the way). I used Ganondorf mainly in friendlies, and when I got back and looked at the thread for the shout-outs, I saw a lot of shout-outs to me, because I mained Ganondorf. My Ganondorf was being praised, and not my Wolf, even though I used him the most in my tourney matches.

So, that's why I play Ganondorf. Without him, I would've been just a guy who got 65th in a tourney. I would've been nothing special. But now, I'm "the great Ganon player" and that, too, is something to be proud of. As for taking the victory, I'll just get better and keep placing higher.

Well, the European scene is different from the American one, so take my opinion with a grain of salt if you want.

This is true, and an excellent point to be sure. But everything in moderation. I have become "That guy" I am known for having a really good Marth. Most times these days, anyone who knows anything about Marth will know my name (I'm not trying to be arrogant, I'm merely mentioning it for the sake of my point).

That being said, I'm no longer looking to be famous. I'm looking to be successful. I'm ALREADY famous, but despite what 7th may look like to some people, when there are 4 MKs in front of you and two other characters, I don't FEEL successful anymore. That's probably what's provoking the discussion. I used to feel successful, placing 7th. Now, I know it in my gut, that my skill level is better than what I'm placing, and bad match-ups are holding me back. I also know that I have the power to work around bad match-ups, and I also realize I was being stubborn about match-ups and I just wanted to go all Marth for the fame. However, it's limited. I know who Rebaz and Izaw are, sure, they have a small degree of fame in that sense. But they aren't really successful (as far as I know) and neither am I really. In this game, succeeding is winning, or at least making some money. Placing in cash, CONSISTENTLY gaining points in Ankoku's chart, going out of state, and making top level players WORRY about fighting you in tournament. These are the things a successful player does, and things I haven't been doing.

I could very easily become very well known simply for putting my Mario on blast and saying "Look what I'm doing with a character you call low tier." Boss did it (no disrespect intended though, Boss is stupidly good), Malcolm did it with Sonic, etc. Since there are no real Mario mains in tourney, it's not even far-fetched to assume that since I'm already seeded highly, and get R1 bye, R2 scrub, and won't run into serious danger until R4, I can put Mario somewhere decent on a tourney result. No one knows Mario tactics, or what to do, and I can take them by surprise. I two-stocked ADHD with Mario the round of a friendly set (he won the set after learning my tactics) and have done decently against M2k with him. Players of lesser caliber will be easier to deal with. Getting my Mario blown up would be cake. Neo did it with Shiek recently.

Still, that's not what being successful is. At least, not to me. I feel I should have matured as a player, and as a figure past that point. At the end, when you're competing in tournament, it's about winning, and I'm going to do what it takes to win. I suspect that if I can persuade my brother to practice the MK ditto with me, we can both become extremely proficient at it.

 

[Pierce7d]

Lol it's not as much a matter of 'you're good' as it is i have much love for the Marth boards =)

And even if you're an hour away so long as the directions are easy it shouldn't be a problem lol

Directions are easy. It's mostly highway. I'll hop on AIM and we can talk.

 

[Pr0phetic]

This is true, and an excellent point to be sure. But everything in moderation. I have become "That guy" I am known for having a really good Marth. Most times these days, anyone who knows anything about Marth will know my name (I'm not trying to be arrogant, I'm merely mentioning it for the sake of my point).

That being said, I'm no longer looking to be famous. I'm looking to be successful. I'm ALREADY famous, but despite what 7th may look like to some people, when there are 4 MKs in front of you and two other characters, I don't FEEL successful anymore. That's probably what's provoking the discussion. I used to feel successful, placing 7th. Now, I know it in my gut, that my skill level is better than what I'm placing, and bad match-ups are holding me back. I also know that I have the power to work around bad match-ups, and I also realize I was being stubborn about match-ups and I just wanted to go all Marth for the fame. However, it's limited. I know who Rebaz and Izaw are, sure, they have a small degree of fame in that sense. But they aren't really successful (as far as I know) and neither am I really. In this game, succeeding is winning, or at least making some money. Placing in cash, CONSISTENTLY gaining points in Ankoku's chart, going out of state, and making top level players WORRY about fighting you in tournament. These are the things a successful player does, and things I haven't been doing.

I could very easily become very well known simply for putting my Mario on blast and saying "Look what I'm doing with a character you call low tier." Boss did it (no disrespect intended though, Boss is stupidly good), Malcolm did it with Sonic, etc. Since there are no real Mario mains in tourney, it's not even far-fetched to assume that since I'm already seeded highly, and get R1 bye, R2 scrub, and won't run into serious danger until R4, I can put Mario somewhere decent on a tourney result. No one knows Mario tactics, or what to do, and I can take them by surprise. I two-stocked ADHD with Mario the round of a friendly set (he won the set after learning my tactics) and have done decently against M2k with him. Players of lesser caliber will be easier to deal with. Getting my Mario blown up would be cake. Neo did it with Shiek recently.

Still, that's not what being successful is. At least, not to me. I feel I should have matured as a player, and as a figure past that point. At the end, when you're competing in tournament, it's about winning, and I'm going to do what it takes to win. I suspect that if I can persuade my brother to practice the MK ditto with me, we can both become extremely proficient at it.

He's not lying, we all know him for his great Marth. And I completely agree with you, I'm on the fence with this aswell. At first you psot had me a bit in a downer, but then I made some sense to it after the realization I need to work my *** off now. And good stuff with 2stocking ADHD with Mario, full of win.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Solid, NEVER feel guilty about using MK. I never begrudge people that use MK against me. You are playing in competition for a prize and status. Using all the tools available to you is not a crime. It is your opponent's fault if they chose to play a different character. Let's say your opponent decides to use Link (I have a decent Link too btw). Would you feel bad using Marth? Marth destroys Link, but you're a Marth main. To the Link, it really doesn't matter if his opponent is Marth or MK, the end result is the same. What are you going to do, feel bad and main C. Falcon so everyone has an advantage on you? That's foolish and scrubish.

MK is not a sin, he's just a really broken character. I advise EVERYONE to use him until he gets banned, if you want to stand a reasonable chance at competing. Whenever I introduce people to the game, I encourage them to play MK. Being the best you can be and having the greatest chance of winning involves choosing MK. THAT is SAKURAI's fault, not yours, so don't feel guilty.

You're right.

Another reason I don't like using MK is that then my Marth doesn't get as much practice, which is really the only way for me to get any better at this point, I'm fundamentally sound, my spacing is very good, and I make good decisions most of the time.

I'll start using MK more now, I didn't even think my MK was any good until I started playing him in friendlies at my last tournament against a Snake player. I was using Marth against him, and after the first match, which I lost while not really trying, I started using MK and preceded to beat every one of his secondaries before he went back to Snake, and then was consistently beating his Snake with my MK and Marth, by about the same margin.

 

[Pierce7d]

You're right.

Another reason I don't like using MK is that then my Marth doesn't get as much practice, which is really the only way for me to get any better at this point, I'm fundamentally sound, my spacing is very good, and I make good decisions most of the time.

I'll start using MK more now, I didn't even think my MK was any good until I started playing him in friendlies at my last tournament against a Snake player. I was using Marth against him, and after the first match, which I lost while not really trying, I started using MK and preceded to beat every one of his secondaries before he went back to Snake, and then was consistently beating his Snake with my MK and Marth, by about the same margin.

Playing other characters expands your knowledge of the game, and ultimately makes you better. When I train with Falco, my Marth still gets better, because I become better at the game in general. Also, some stuff I do with Falco might apply to Marth, so I learn to think in ways I wouldn't have though of as a Marth main. I really learned to appreciate jabbing (which ***** in the MK match-up), because of my other characters, when I never would've used it properly before. I never would've used Dair OOS if I didn't steal if from MK. Playing different characters expands your mind, and makes you more creative, which helps you evolve into a better player. That's why I play quite a few characters even though I only use Marth in tourney.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks Pierce!

 

[Anth0ny]

I know exactly how you feel Pierce. I went through the same thing with Marth last year. I mained him from Brawl's Japanese launch all the way until November. I have some very good MKs in my region, and I noticed that the matchup was pretty heavily in MKs favor before most Marth mains I think.

I joined the dark side. But when you're playing Ally and Lain in EVERY tournament you attend, MK isn't that much of a problem :/

 

[UncleSam]

Pierce I feel for you, living in NJ surrounded by MK
but were troopers, remember that

 

[Beren Zaiga]

To be quite honest. I am beginning to think I am the "Dan Hibiki" of Smash Boards.

I'm always frustrated, and I fight by habitual strategies that I cannot seem to ever break, I am slower to react than most players, and my perception in laggy matches leaves much to be desired; when I do win, its usually by luck. I currently main Bowser with Lucario as my secondhand (Whom I ironically use more than Bowser despite saying that). I cannot Fast Fall effectively, cannot AD or SS effectively, especially in matches with lag. My shielding is bogus, my Powershielding is even worse, and rarely ever happens, and my Floor, Ceiling, and Wall Teching skills are ****. My spacing? Don't get me started.

When I play as Lucario, I am always the first to try and approach my opponent, and in the case of C-Spyker and other experienced Peach players, I have no defense, If I shield, they come and grab, if I don't, they come and grab, if I dodge way, they run Dash Attack me, its like having a Wall of Pain right on the freaking ground! If I'm in the air, I AD, and they come and Usmash, Uair, etc me back up and I feel I have no way of defending against their strategy despite sometimes getting lucky and getting a few grabs in.

When I play as Bowser, It is much the same, I try to approach, sometimes trying to do so with an AFBA (Aerial Fire Breath Approach, which, BTW, can do wonders agaisnt a planker)...and get *****slapped, kicked, U-smashed, no matter what I do, and I doubt that Whirling Fortress would help me much here either. I try and I try and I try, and keep getting my *** kicked around, it makes me mad because I feel so defenseless, and I am much better with Bowser than Lucario.

Why am I using Bowser, for those of whom are wondering since reading my little segment? Its because I want to play the character than people have little respect for.

If anyone cares to, (WARNING: Shameless Plug), I'll be around later looking for matches with experience players to critique me on. I want to become better, I really do!

 

[Ocean]

To be quite honest. I am beginning to think I am the "Dan Hibiki" of Smash Boards...

Part of your habits might be from using bowser, as for he is slower and slower to react. Remember that what character you're using can greatly effect the way you play. Maybe you should try experimenting with some other characters, and maybe you will find one that is more suiting for you.

 

[Beren Zaiga]

Part of your habits might be from using bowser, as for he is slower and slower to react. Remember that what character you're using can greatly effect the way you play. Maybe you should try experimenting with some other characters, and maybe you will find one that is more suiting for you.

I think it has less to do with Bowser, and more with the fact that I don't play like a conventional Bowser.

 

[Ocean]

I think it has less to do with Bowser, and more with the fact that I don't play like a conventional Bowser.

Well than thats only something you can cover yourself. Just keep practicing with it.

 

[kr3wman]

Only Falcon can rival with Dan in terms of sucky-ness and tauntability.

 

[Tennet]

I've recently been fighting with the idea of going all marth or using snake for more than doubles so i'm most likely going to go marth/snake when i finally go to a tourney.

 

[<π]

whats a secondary?

I focus on one character because play more than one at high levels of play is... hard. I think sheik has tons of good or even match ups and I can win those. At least thats what I tell myself.

You don't owe anyone anything though you are right, play to win. Good luck.

 

[takeurlife2]

My dad has asked me the exact same thing before...

Stupid snake, mk, d3, DK.... makin our parents doubt us...

I feel the same about having to work my *** off with marth when i could just counterpick. I lost to a D3 then 2 stocked him with my 3 minute old pikachu before... its just stupid.

 

[Lukenessmonster]

I literally realized this today. So as I was doing doubles friendlies at a smashfest, i went d3. hes extremely effective against all characters including MK. Hes quite easy to pick up, hes amazing in doubles, and he lives long time. Im stickin to marth but im thinkin of usin dedede against MK and maybe snake

 

[fromundaman]

Heh, Pierce, I know your pain. As a Kirby main, I came to the realization I needed secondaries a long time ago...

Why? Is it for MK? Of course not. Despite what one of your posts said, MK isn't what's holding Kirby back (It's almost an even matchup). Hell, if there were MORE MKs here, I might be winning more. It's that god**** Marth. *insert rant on how much I hate Marth here*

What you feel about MK is what a lot of character mainers feel about Marth (although they aren't as popular as MK.).
Anyway, keep Maining your awesome Marth, and get that Falco up to shape!
(Also, I don't know what the falco-DK matchup is, but Mario-DK is even and one of my personal favorite matchups in this game, so hey, if you ever need to cp a DK and feel like using Mario, go for it!)

As for 2 stocking ADHD with Mario, GJ! Mario-Diddy is about even though (though Mario-ADHD isn't lol), but regardless, that's pretty cool.

 

[kingcobra9]

I'm having too much trouble picking a main to have a counterpick