Flavorless Mafia III: Game Over. Who Won?

[Xivii]

Votecount 3.4

2. UtopianPoyzin
4. Z25: Pokechu
6. Pythag
7. Pokechu: Z25
8. Kary
9. Sabrar

Not Voting
UtopianPoyzin, Pythag, Kary, Sabrar;

Important Game Links
Game Links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

*= Currently being replaced
^= V/LA

With 6 players, it takes 4 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 3 is April 1st, at 11:59 PM EST.

 

[Z25]

Heh, my word isn’t worth much because I know everybody else susses me to some degree, but it’s time for another Kary ISO.

In full disclosure I’m going to be operating under the assumption that the team is Kary and Pokechu. I realized that people might not like it when I call a post useless this time, so instead of calling posts useless I’ll just call them absolutely nothing and ignore them.







Imagine making the statement that even though I was absent for two days, I become more scum. Scum!Poy would have made sure to fabricate 2 reads before the deadline, but I didn’t end up doing that. I’m aware that there is a certain level of wine there but I’m going to ask everybody to be realistic about it, as I won’t address it any further.















So this post shows Kary’s stance on Pokechu as being scum, calling their post horse****. It’s not even that bad of an argument, but of course knowing that Pokechu is scum is a nice boost in confidence.















The tick tock is needlessly threatening, considering I’m not terribly bothered with Kary’s scum read on me because I have a similar, less confident scumread on them.







This is pretty close to a scumslip if I’ve ever seen one. Kary is completely oozing with confidence now.







I personally disagree with the premise that toMorrow’s vote is solely up to you.



I do applaud your efforts at trying to make votes in your direction be illogical.



Your bulletproof claim makes a good lick of sense considering it’s your alibi towards not dying in the night, because “scum was persuaded not to kill you”.

The only reason I’m not pushing Kary harder than I want to is because I flopped heavily with GLG and I’m not too keen on flopping again. Like I was so sold on GLG being scum that my other scumread since D2, being Kary, became basically conditional on GLG’s flip. And when GLG flipped town, Kary looked a lot better because my D1-D2 logic became skewed so much that everything I believed in was dependent on GLG flipping scum. And that didn’t happen. That’s why I took some time away from the game so that I could flush my confidence down a partially dilapidated sink in a gas station. I still think that Kary might be scum, but if nobody else believes me and wants to follow Kary to the grave, I’d be alright with losing to him.

In hindsight, I suppose Kary did save GLG for a great reason. GLG was being widely scumread, and Maven was being scumread to a lesser extent AFAIWA. Taking advantage of a Maven lynch early was great, because Kary knew I would still be locked in the GLG mislynch wagon. If GLG was taken out immediately, I would have been more open-minded now that my all-or-nothing push was out of the game. But by sparing GLG, I was left disabled for one more day and Maven’s wagon was a great opportunity to take advantage of.

And as for my experience with the Kary meta, they typically don’t go for the easy lurkers. Now he has been wrong twice in a row, a true rarity for Kary, and they have a renewed sense of confidence with Pokechu again? Every nerve in my body is telling me this is a bus if I’ve ever seen one. Z25 will be dead tomorrow and Kary can use their Bulletproof claim as a reason for why they’re still alive, despite them being the “towniest townie in the game” (a loose paraphrase from #781.) Now I’m usually wrong, and y’all don’t have to roll with me if you don’t want to, but Kary is the move for me after Pokechu, unless we want to try no lynching.

And as for the ISO, it’s been another rather uneventful day for Kary. Confidence in their Pokechu quotes, but not much else besides questions and general “what if”s. I really don’t see how y’all are reading Kary so highly as town.

I won’t lie, in Hindsight if Kary is scum, there are definitely a few posts we can look at from them post game.

Problem is I don’t genuinely want to risk that tomorrow. Chu absolutely has too go.

I’ve seen similar scum confidence in players like
Zebei but I don’t know enough about Kary as a slot to make that wager here.

If their scum props to them, but on the surface I don’t want to believe it even if deep down I have considered every angle here.

We’ll see I guess

 

[#HBC | Kary]

you two be clowning

 

[Pokechu]

Oh hey! UtopianPoyzin Since the thread's dead and I feel like none of us have anything better to discuss, how did you feel about my #527 against Z? I think it's 527. I thought it was super good!!! Like really outlined my problems against the whole slot. Really good points!!

I just like argumentative writing so putting something like that together made me feel great!

Here's some more things about Z I've been chewing on

Is anyone else confused by his weird defense of Pythag? He uses a general argument to lift him up and put me down (feels like he was trying! your content feels random). I can't use anything to disprove that and he can't use anything to prove it either because you can bring any quote and label it "random."

And he specifically said he liked pythag's page 7 which literally had nothing to like: 1 post saying "wait a minute", 1 post about meta, 1 glitch post, 1 meme, 5 question posts, 1 post about mistaking someone else's, and 2 posts about me following Kary. Super weird to act like you can see how that's town but you can only see my content as random and uninspired. Also weird how he defends Pythag's low activity here but makes a jump on Sab when he (Z) thinks Sab is doing the same thing (defending Pythag's low activity).

I said this in my wall #364 and his response proves it right

I don't feel like he really tried to dispute much about my argument. He brought up meta which is nice but I feel like that never goes very far (and I wasn't in the game he was referring to with Poy). Mostly he just threw it back at me ("you haven't been paying attention", "you're in the same boat", "now you're the one to throw dirt but you've been just as uncommitted"). Like I think there's a difference between his post here and Kary's #407 after Poy's wall on her. Like she didn't try to reflect it back on Poy. But Z does reflect it back on me

I also find it strange how he's upset about me "following Kary around" (even though I didn't really, he mentions it again in #371 too), but he makes this response to Sab

This can also be seen as "buddying" which Z holds against me and is really just WIFOM. But it seems like he means for this to be taken seriously. Like a lot of the points he uses against me are just WIFOM (refer to the first quote in this post, about him not being teamed with Pythag). Kind of shallow and doesn't really dispute my arguments

 

[Z25]

Oh hey! UtopianPoyzin Since the thread's dead and I feel like none of us have anything better to discuss, how did you feel about my #527 against Z? I think it's 527. I thought it was super good!!! Like really outlined my problems against the whole slot. Really good points!!

I just like argumentative writing so putting something like that together made me feel great!

One of your biggest “points” on me is that I never retaliated on your points. You want to know why?

I didn’t need to, your argument was alright, but there were bigger things to look at and discuss, you weren’t a priority no offense

 

[Pokechu]

One of your biggest “points” on me is that I never retaliated on your points. You want to know why?

I didn’t need to, your argument was alright, but there were bigger things to look at and discuss, you weren’t a priority no offense

None taken! If I wasn't such a priority to you then why'd you make this post now Embarrass

OOOOOO

mic drop

tssssssss

 

[Z25]

None taken! If I wasn't such a priority to you then why'd you make this post now Embarrass

OOOOOO

mic drop

tssssssss

I get that’s a joke, but the answer is obvious, you keep trying to stretch it as a big point against me, but it’s not really

 

[Pokechu]

I get that’s a joke, but the answer is obvious, you keep trying to stretch it as a big point against me, but it’s not really

To be honest I do think it's kind of sketchy that you ignored most of my posts and the points you countered it was usually just a sentence or two of WIFOM. Even if you don't care about what I'm saying your responses can help the town see where your head's at during those times. Like I definitely found it suspicious. Especially the good points too I was making, like what was there to like about Pythag's page 7? You used a general argument to lift him up and put me down. Can't you say anything better than "feels like he was trying?" LOL

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Alright Pokechu, I’m down to clown.

Here's some more things about Z I've been chewing on

Is anyone else confused by his weird defense of Pythag? He uses a general argument to lift him up and put me down (feels like he was trying! your content feels random). I can't use anything to disprove that and he can't use anything to prove it either because you can bring any quote and label it "random."

And he specifically said he liked pythag's page 7 which literally had nothing to like: 1 post saying "wait a minute", 1 post about meta, 1 glitch post, 1 meme, 5 question posts, 1 post about mistaking someone else's, and 2 posts about me following Kary. Super weird to act like you can see how that's town but you can only see my content as random and uninspired. Also weird how he defends Pythag's low activity here but makes a jump on Sab when he (Z) thinks Sab is doing the same thing (defending Pythag's low activity).

I said this in my wall #364 and his response proves it right

I don't feel like he really tried to dispute much about my argument. He brought up meta which is nice but I feel like that never goes very far (and I wasn't in the game he was referring to with Poy). Mostly he just threw it back at me ("you haven't been paying attention", "you're in the same boat", "now you're the one to throw dirt but you've been just as uncommitted"). Like I think there's a difference between his post here and Kary's #407 after Poy's wall on her. Like she didn't try to reflect it back on Poy. But Z does reflect it back on me

I also find it strange how he's upset about me "following Kary around" (even though I didn't really, he mentions it again in #371 too), but he makes this response to Sab

This can also be seen as "buddying" which Z holds against me and is really just WIFOM. But it seems like he means for this to be taken seriously. Like a lot of the points he uses against me are just WIFOM (refer to the first quote in this post, about him not being teamed with Pythag). Kind of shallow and doesn't really dispute my arguments

So out of the bat I do agree that your interpretation of Z25’s defense of Pythag was weird. Pythag’s D1 certainly wasn’t as townie as Z25 portrayed it to be in terms of the content. However, in a weird way, I also thought that Pythag’s D1 was kind of townie, and I do think that your number breakdown did not give Pythag enough credit. And while I will concede that it is weird, the word “weird” belongs to the mafia. It’s a good way to call out abnormal content or townie mistakes all without needing to read into it too much, and I still feel like I never gain your interpretation of the event. What did you gain? How did your understanding of Z25 develop? I don’t feel like I truly understand that part yet, and that you brought it up as a case against Z25 doing a lot of weird things. Everybody does weird thing in mafia, including town. Exactly how is Z25’s townread of Pythag weird, and why does it make Z25 scummy?

 

[Pokechu]

Alright Pokechu, I’m down to clown.



So out of the bat I do agree that your interpretation of Z25’s defense of Pythag was weird. Pythag’s D1 certainly wasn’t as townie as Z25 portrayed it to be in terms of the content. However, in a weird way, I also thought that Pythag’s D1 was kind of townie, and I do think that your number breakdown did not give Pythag enough credit. And while I will concede that it is weird, the word “weird” belongs to the mafia. It’s a good way to call out abnormal content or townie mistakes all without needing to read into it too much, and I still feel like I never gain your interpretation of the event. What did you gain? How did your understanding of Z25 develop? I don’t feel like I truly understand that part yet, and that you brought it up as a case against Z25 doing a lot of weird things. Everybody does weird thing in mafia, including town. Exactly how is Z25’s townread of Pythag weird, and why does it make Z25 scummy?

Good points!! I guess I meant it as like a mafia handwaving a read. Because he just said it "felt like" Pythag was trying. That's very vague! And it gets even more strange when he looks at my content and says it's just "random." Like when he doesn't say what it really is, of Pythag's content that he liked, I think it's bad to boil all of my content as just being "random." Like I could find some really good observations I made D1!! The fact that Z couldn't use anything but a general argument to both support Pythag and go against my slot shows that what he was saying really holds no weight. Even if he backed it up with quotes it wouldn't mean anything because as I said in the post you could bring any quote up and label it "random" so I felt like what Z was doing right there was empty posting. Like he was saying stuff he couldn't even justify himself imo and it feels like an attempt to make Pythag look better and me look worse. One of the reasons I had Z and Pythag as the scumteam

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Whoops, part 2 is separate I guess

I don't feel like he really tried to dispute much about my argument. He brought up meta which is nice but I feel like that never goes very far (and I wasn't in the game he was referring to with Poy). Mostly he just threw it back at me ("you haven't been paying attention", "you're in the same boat", "now you're the one to throw dirt but you've been just as uncommitted"). Like I think there's a difference between his post here and Kary's #407 after Poy's wall on her. Like she didn't try to reflect it back on Poy. But Z does reflect it back on me

I also find it strange how he's upset about me "following Kary around" (even though I didn't really, he mentions it again in #371 too), but he makes this response to Sab
This can also be seen as "buddying" which Z holds against me and is really just WIFOM. But it seems like he means for this to be taken seriously. Like a lot of the points he uses against me are just WIFOM (refer to the first quote in this post, about him not being teamed with Pythag). Kind of shallow and doesn't really dispute my arguments

You see, I think you’re reading into Z25 too much here. You’re taking his frustration and exaggerations and using it against him. Your argument is that Z25 is flipping the script and OMGUSing, which I don’t disagree with. But once again, I don’t see how this makes him particularly scummy? Like imagine if you’re Z25 and the one person that you think is scum starts accusing you for the same reasons you accuse them. You’d think that it’s hypocritical, right? Like the argument you made against somebody is being used right back against you, and the accuser is guilty of the actions they are accusing? So while OMGUSing is not that great of an argument, I don’t view it to be inherently scummy, and can be justifiable given the circumstances. Z25 was just angry that you were calling him unhelpful and uncommitted when he viewed you to be just as much unhelpful.

However, I do believe that Pokechu’s buddying has been not a big issue, as it could plausible be done from either alignment. I don’t think that you can build a case against Pokechu for joking around on D1 and describe that as buddying with ill-intent. It’s not like Pokechu is still buddying Kary, right? They’ve moved on from that. I will admit that scum!Chu buddying can make it look like their town so that they appear to not have an agenda, but this is all conjecture and I don’t want to read too far into this more than it needs to be. By Z25’s logic, Kary could be equally as scummy for suggesting Pokechu latch his vote onto him. I think Pokechu’s vote buddying to have minimal impact and is not a strong point of the argument against Pokechu.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

their

They’re

Like I see why Z25 brought it up, like it makes Pokechu appear innocent and not trying to scheme, something that townie don’t need to worry about. But I view the buddying claims to be a stretch, as I don’t think his choice of who to buddy mattered in the whole scheme of things. Buddying implies both players gain something by working together, but this was strictly a solo maneuver, with potential confirmation from a scum bud.

 

[Pokechu]

Whoops, part 2 is separate I guess



You see, I think you’re reading into Z25 too much here. You’re taking his frustration and exaggerations and using it against him. Your argument is that Z25 is flipping the script and OMGUSing, which I don’t disagree with. But once again, I don’t see how this makes him particularly scummy? Like imagine if you’re Z25 and the one person that you think is scum starts accusing you for the same reasons you accuse them. You’d think that it’s hypocritical, right? Like the argument you made against somebody is being used right back against you, and the accuser is guilty of the actions they are accusing? So while OMGUSing is not that great of an argument, I don’t view it to be inherently scummy, and can be justifiable given the circumstances. Z25 was just angry that you were calling him unhelpful and uncommitted when he viewed you to be just as much unhelpful.

However, I do believe that Pokechu’s buddying has been not a big issue, as it could plausible be done from either alignment. I don’t think that you can build a case against Pokechu for joking around on D1 and describe that as buddying with ill-intent. It’s not like Pokechu is still buddying Kary, right? They’ve moved on from that. I will admit that scum!Chu buddying can make it look like their town so that they appear to not have an agenda, but this is all conjecture and I don’t want to read too far into this more than it needs to be. By Z25’s logic, Kary could be equally as scummy for suggesting Pokechu latch his vote onto him. I think Pokechu’s vote buddying to have minimal impact and is not a strong point of the argument against Pokechu.

Agreed on the second paragraph!!

For the first, my problem is that Z was putting words in my mouth (he said something about me being uncommitted but after the two days I said I would be inactive on even before the game started, I wouldn't say I've been uncommitted) and he used the buddying against me there to show that I was in the "same boat." It makes him suspicious because it shows that his first intent isn't to dispel what I'm saying or to combat it, it's to simply just drag me down to his level. There's been numerous times he's misrepresented my posts this game and he didn't bother combating that or any of my other valid points; instead, he chose to bring up my "buddying" (which wasn't really buddying in the first place). Not only does it make his argument weak, it just makes him look bad if he's going about other people like that. Like he's not really even partaking in civil debates, he's just making potshots. Which falls under OMGUS. Like the tone of the post and what he says in it isn't really "townie defending himself" but rather "why are you suspecting me??" and "you shouldn't be suspecting me!!!" imo and that was my problem with that

 

[Pokechu]

Agreed on the second paragraph!!

For the first, my problem is that Z was putting words in my mouth (he said something about me being uncommitted but after the two days I said I would be inactive on even before the game started, I wouldn't say I've been uncommitted) and he used the buddying against me there to show that I was in the "same boat." It makes him suspicious because it shows that his first intent isn't to dispel what I'm saying or to combat it, it's to simply just drag me down to his level. There's been numerous times he's misrepresented my posts this game and he didn't bother combating that or any of my other valid points; instead, he chose to bring up my "buddying" (which wasn't really buddying in the first place). Not only does it make his argument weak, it just makes him look bad if he's going about other people like that. Like he's not really even partaking in civil debates, he's just making potshots. Which falls under OMGUS. Like the tone of the post and what he says in it isn't really "townie defending himself" but rather "why are you suspecting me??" and "you shouldn't be suspecting me!!!" imo and that was my problem with that

Also to add on

some people could be thinking of the same points I am against him, so when Z doesn’t answer them not only does it kind of like halt my read of him and prevent it from changing, it prevents anyone else’s read from chanting too. So it’s not really helpful to the town either because he’s blocking content from himself, like his thought process, etc

 

[Pokechu]

Also to add on

some people could be thinking of the same points I am against him, so when Z doesn’t answer them not only does it kind of like halt my read of him and prevent it from changing, it prevents anyone else’s read from chanting too. So it’s not really helpful to the town either because he’s blocking content from himself, like his thought process, etc

EBWOP chanting --> changing LOL stupid autocorrect!!!! Wrote that one on mobile Embarrass

 

[Sabrar]

This is pretty close to a scumslip if I’ve ever seen one. Kary is completely oozing with confidence now.

I disagree with this completely, from a certain type of player overconfidence is a great indication of townieness, Of course Kary could be pretending here but calling it a scumslip is way off.

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar I can kind of understand no lynching after we hit Pokechu but before just seems like stalling for no reason.

There is a possibility here that you're not considering (for obvious reasons). It has a low chance of occuring so I'm down with lynching Pokechu today but NL wouldn't exactly be stalling.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

hey did anyone else notice that poyzins confidence came back after i claimed bulletproof. if I had claimed a jail on him he would have just dissolved. now he thinks he has a chance lol.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

this role is too much fun i tell you.

Vote Pokechu

 

[#HBC | Kary]

wow look at me forgetting my punctuation

Vote: Pokechu

 

[Pokechu]

Woo!!! Send me to the graveyard!!! Let’s finish this game!

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Pythag Sabrar finish him please

 

[Sabrar]

Vote: Pokechu

 

[Pythag]

Vote: Pokechu

 

[Xivii]

Votecount Final 3

2. UtopianPoyzin
4. Z25: Pokechu
6. Pythag
7. Pokechu: Z25, Kary, Sabrar, Pythag
8. Kary
9. Sabrar

Not Voting
UtopianPoyzin;

Important Game Links
Game Links and Vote Counts

Notes:
Pokechu has been lynched. Ranmaru will post the flip in the next post.

*= Currently being replaced
^= V/LA

With 6 players, it takes 4 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 3 is April 1st, at 11:59 PM EST.

 

[ranmaru]

Pokechu was lynched! He was a Mafia Rolecop.

It is now Night 3. Deadline for actions is April 1st, at 11:59PM EST.

 

[ranmaru]

Sabrar, vanilla townie, was killed night 3.

It is now Day 4. Deadline is April 9th, at 11:59PM EST.

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 4.0

2. UtopianPoyzin
4. Z25
6. Pythag
8. Kary

Not Voting
Everyone.

Important Game Links
Game Links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

*= Currently being replaced
^= V/LA

With 4 players, it takes 3 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 3 is April 1st, at 11:59 PM EST.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Pythag Z25 should we no lynch today?

UtopianPoyzin find the last scum.

 

[Z25]

“Wouldn’t you think my scum mate wouldn’t let me claim that?”

lmfao that was a fantastic day. Why the hell did the mafia role blocker claim their exact role and try to lynch someone that way?

Pokechu always an enigma, but entertaining.

 

[Z25]

Pythag Z25 should we no lynch today?

UtopianPoyzin find the last scum.

I still have a good feeling on UP.

The question we should at least think about. Why kill someone claiming vanilla townie? Correct me if I’m wrong but Pythag never claimed correct?


Would make more sense to target him as who knows what his ability is. But then again scum somehow thought they could get away with a bold as hell claim and didn’t. So who honestly knows what they are thinking at this point.

Kinda of makes me consider UP more as he’s been scum a lot but lynched early on. Perhaps he was struggling to adapt to not only having pokechu as his teammate but playing completely by himself.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

The question we should at least think about. Why kill someone claiming vanilla townie? Correct me if I’m wrong but Pythag never claimed correct?

first, let me correct you:

Vanilla town

second, I take it from your answer you just want to lynch UP today?

 

[Pythag]

I still have a good feeling on UP.

The question we should at least think about. Why kill someone claiming vanilla townie? Correct me if I’m wrong but Pythag never claimed correct?

Would make more sense to target him as who knows what his ability is. But then again scum somehow thought they could get away with a bold as hell claim and didn’t. So who honestly knows what they are thinking at this point.

Kinda of makes me consider UP more as he’s been scum a lot but lynched early on. Perhaps he was struggling to adapt to not only having pokechu as his teammate but playing completely by himself.

Is there anything else aside from Sab being the target that's making you feel confident on UP?

 

[Z25]

first, let me correct you:



second, I take it from your answer you just want to lynch UP today?

Is there anything else aside from Sab being the target that's making you feel confident on UP?

I quoted multiple posts throughout the day yesterday that show Pokechu had way to much of an attachment to UP’s slot, on top of trying to pass UP off as town feels really suspicious.

You saw Chu yesterday, their best defense when I said why cop UP over me first was a pretty flimsy excuse. They were really trying to clear Up. I would normally say this is a redirect but Chu also made a big mistake that a more experienced scum team would not, so slipping more throughout the game was something Chu likely did. So Chu failing to understand why painting him and Up as a “town team” may have been a big slip.

Im open to suggestions but I really think it’s Up as last scum.

With Chu attempting to prevent suspicion on that slot but ultimately backfiring.

One of the other interactions that I’m still holding onto regardless of how much both slots wanted to argue against it, was the fact UP went to go link a game for Chu. It’s the type of attention drawing move he’s made in previous games like Sorcerers and Chu flipping scum really makes that interaction stand out to me

 

[Z25]

Alright who’s ready to play, let’s lynch UP!?

Please, the Law of Averages states that I can't be anti-town 7 rolls in a row. That's why I have already self voted and repeated the post that Kary hated the most last game, to prove how scummy I am.

But maybe it was all an illusion?

Cool, Kary's town too. I'm conf!town now.

Unvote; Vote: Giraffelasergun

Okay now let's actually play.

7 anti-town rolls in a row is more impressive, in my opinion. But what if it's true?



Alright, moving on. How do you feel about Raxxel thus far, given that you just got out of a game with him?

I want to hear Mavens case too since he's definitely the first to have really made a scumread this game.

Anyway, Vote: UP.

A lot of the humor from this slot feels forced. I don't enjoy their entrance of once again asking Kary to solve the game for them, and I feel like their point about the improbability of them being scum was a genuine attempt at having people dissuaded at the notion, and they only backed down once called out. They're not doubling down on anything in general.

Let’s start here. All of Up’s posts are exactly what Rax ways here. On top of the fact this trend of trying to seem town so hard continues. Now who “makes” UP town? Pokechu. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. Feels like an early setups to whatever the hell Pokechu was doing yesterday.

Lmao the page I linked was an article about the fallacy I know very well how probability works my guy

Tries to play off his content as a joke here when he really doesn’t come off that way.

I've made 8 posts so far. Not great! But this post here is your 11th (and this one I'm making is my 9th). My activity isn't that low, but go off throwing stones in a glass house files nails and gets my imaginary backup girls to go "ON PERIOD POOH" and "MHM SIS" like this is a high school sitcom

"We have no choice but to eliminate those who cling to [those] unreasonable ideas of justice." Edelgard, 2019

Truthfully, the ideology doesn't make sense because there is no feasible "mean", aside from winning. Which, winning should never be your sole mean because there's much to mafia than that (such as making good plays, forging bonds, getting better). There's no motive to play if either side is constantly trying to see what they can get away with, solely to win. Where's the fun in that? Like if someone gets accused and they suddenly bust down sobbing into tears and making AtE so they don't get any votes. Honey you can save your own time AND mine!!!!

Winning's not a real mean. So without the mean, what do the ends justify?

This might be a stretch, but Chu comes into the game with really nothing substantial after 2 days, and UP immediately likes these two posts when early game they weren’t really doing this. Also there’s really no reason to find this content likable imo.

What's even more interesting this was Chu trying to paint me in a negative light here and Up was immediately down for that, despite not showing much interest towards me.

The end is winning. The means are the strategies and gambits utilized to get there. I figured I'd ask you some philosmafical questions in the meantime while waiting for the game to get underway. You feel?

This begins the early Chu interactions that keep going.

That is exactly what I mean by the means.

I think this is the first time in ages where it has been just you and me online in a mafia game

...do you want to make the first move? Embarrass

This really stands out upon the Scum Slip as now UP is acting a lot like Chu. Which is very out of character. Feels like a slip and he’s been talking to much to Chu as his teammate.

It has!! I was going to respond to everything else I found interesting and then get back to Z because I feel like no matter what I say now, it'll be seen as me squirming and going OMGUS!!!!!! LMAO

But I do find it strange how his main reason to vote me was because of my activity, when his isn't much better. This is combined with other players having less activity (I don't recall Maven saying much of substance, he still hasn't made his post over Raxxel), and Z also hasn't commented much on the two players receiving what seems like the most attention right now, you and Raxxel. Z just put his vote on me and left. I don't blame him! LOL I want to do that too at times! But I don't think it's a good look. For someone concerned about post he could be making more of his own, and he's doing the exact thing he's voting me for, isn't he? (popping in and leaving)

I won't do a hipshot and say "HE'S SCUM!" because this isn't enough for that. But it is moments like these when I'm reminded why I find him hard to read!!!

Chu uses Up’s content here to try and set my lynch, which will fail and lead him to try again next day. Next day he would use Ups alignment to try and lynch me as scum. Why is Up always in the picture here?

Coincidence, get over it.




Poyzin
Pythag
Maven
Kary
ZestofLife
Pokechu
Raxxel
Z25
Giraffelasergun

That first line has absolutely no right to be said at this point. That big confidence in a slot that literally just shows up is extremely odd. Especially when said slot flips scum later and he later backtracks on my read beforehand. Which I’m guessing is in case pokechu does flip scum because then he can look more town as I’m cleared for tearing apart that slot and lynching them.

Time for part 2 next

 

[Z25]

Telling about what in particular?



Game*, because I knew where to find it and I figured that Pokechu may not immediately be able to get it for you, so I was trying to quench your appetite in his name.



Because it was weak ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have no reason to "defend" Pokechu, and scum!Poyzin wouldn't risk the association (WIFOM whatever I don't care). I just know that accusing people of "popping in when their name comes up" can be really frustrating for people who said that they would be busy most of thursday and friday.

Just reposting this because that’s still not an excuse I buy.

Oh man Pokechu thats a callout

Completely random post that feels it exists only so UP can obsess over Chu more. Also again shows they keep connecting themselves to each other big time.

Here is the GLG Iso 'N More™

Everything is going to be rated either "useless" or "not".


Useless ^



Potentially debatable, but nothing extraordinary. Scum can also say that Raxxel is a little sus. I gain nothing from this post. +Useless



Useless ^



Useless ^



Not. Let's look at this post some more.

"The line of questioning being about how people will read him based off of the last game did seem to be self preservation at first until he explained it, but I think self preservation seems to be a common thing for newbies to do regardless of alignment."

While I do agree with the last bit here, my interpretation is that Raxxel is playing with a lot more confidence, which is fantastic in my opinion. They were able to joke around early on about how Pythag was immediately cleared because he posted a meme, which is a far cry from how they used to play. And I don't fault Raxxel at all here; they now have participated in several games, and I do believe that they know what they are doing, and are well aware about the implications of self-preservation. I personally wouldn't judge the above comment as an attempt at self-preservation; instead, I view it to be a notice that they are planning on changing their game style, and were curious whether people would see this change as "against the meta". I'd love to hear more from cool, calm, and collected Raxxel. ("Oooh but you're defending Raxxel". I did a similar thing in MMA after I had a few games under my belt. Granted I was scum there, but it was how I planned on playing that game anyway.) I'm harping here a ton because I don't think there's much to harp on in general. A lot of filler in my opinion.

"They asked about how our meta compares which leads me to believe they are experienced. Are you worried about their experience in regards to your lylo fear, or is it more that you want players in lylo that you feel you can Meta read better?"





Useless ^



"I don't like that Zest has only made one post. I'd be fine with lynching them today if they don't get more active."

Eww, a D1 inactive lynch for a slot that appears will be replaced. Yucky. This also comes off of their previous comment of:

"They asked about how our meta compares which leads me to believe they are experienced. Are you worried about their experience in regards to your lylo fear, or is it more that you want players in lylo that you feel you can Meta read better?"

A lot of this stems from the brewing of paranoia that a slot that we haven't played with can single-handedly throw the game for town, which I disagree with. While it would be useful to know a player's history, lynching a slot under the premise that it "could be ambiguous" in the future seems premature and, if I can say it, a way to fearmonger townies to get rid of a slot that hasn't acted particularly scummy.



Debatable, but I feel like a lot of the stuff here could be faked. There is nothing that spurs me with "that's a townie reaction". I recuse to comment on the first bit, the second bit is a touch of self defense, and seems to try to get Pythag to slip up with a contradiction. I also recuse to comment on the last bit. This is probably his best post though.



Useless ^

This is not an ISO, or helpful. This is scum throwing shade at a player with no really reasons to back up their statements or show why GLG was bad, and they were good/town for doing this ISO.

#HBC | Kary , Pythag , my initial vote on GLG was mainly hunch, and understandably weak at that time. I know that it was early in the game, but I felt as if GLG was going out of their way to fly under the radar. From then on, many of GLG's posts were simply reflections on the state of the game and many of them felt as if they were lacking in motivation to solve.

TL;DR (despite it being a short explanation), it was a feeling that became stronger as GLG was unable to make townie posts.

Says this not too long before GLG will be lynched. The obvious goal here is to try and seem better when GLG flips town. This post gives me tmi feels and I don’t see Up making this without knowing the alignment of GLG prior.

Poyzin
Bessie
Pokechu
Kary
Pythag
Z25
Maven
Raxxel
Giraffelasergun

And just a few posts later, a spot he seems to be trying to sell as a misinformed vote, is immediately put in his scummiest position.

And pokechu who was still not really doing great Is moved up to town.

Rax the town tracker and Night kill is in their scummy list, and GLG is also on this list and would be the lynch that day. I’m also on there, the same slot scum Chu would again try to setup a lynch for by using Up’s confirmed townieness.

Really big red flag and this list doesn’t come off as natural when 3 big names in that pool where scum’s targets for kills. Up is making this list so scum can start at the bottom and work their way through the higher slots in late game mislynches imo. I can’t see any reads list being this wrong unless made by scum struggling to find a natural balance when they know all alignments.

Reason for changes:






While having megaposts isn't enough by itself to prove someone's towniness, the insight and depth of thought behind many of the comments are exactly what I'd expect for a townsperson. Seems genuine, can't find any traces of BS. Solid posts in my opinion, feel comfortable putting Bessie here.

Pokechu's play is consistent with their typical town play. The quantity of quality posts is respectable, especially recently. Scum!Pokechu is a chronic lurker iirc, and is much more passive. Pokechu is acting proactively rather than reactively, and posts look genuine.

Kary is stuck where they are because I historically have had difficulty reading that slot, and I don't feel comfortable putting them too far on either end of the spectrum. Probably town though.

Other notable changes are Raxxel moving down. I generally do not like Raxxel's page 7. #246 in particular I don't like, because he spends the whole post talking about the quotes, but doesn't infer anything from them. Town's goal is to figure out who the mafia are, which Rax does not seem to be doing in said post, but rather what he like, don't like, and what he'll take note on. Because of this, I'm inclined to believe that he may not have made that post from a town's perspective, so I have him as null-scum.

I've also committed to GLG more.

Again back to GLG and honestly this list is very poorly comprised.

Especially when Scum and Town Pokechu are the complete opposite of quiet. That slot is always loud and proud so to speak.

Kary’s read here is eh “everyone else is town reading them, I know they are town, but I can’t dispute that, so why try?”

Rax read is just poor in general considering he’s seen scum Rax and town Rax really well. Rax was town this game as I said, that was obvious

 

[Z25]

Now before moving on, I want to address something. I can’t see Kary as scum because no way they would suggest that Chu claim Role Cop. Especially with the familiarity with Ran’s games. Pythag could be scum but that team doesn’t make much sense to me, and he’s played enough where I also can’t see him suggesting Role Cop claim.

If he’s Chu’s partner I be surprised but I just can’t see it. I’m again opening for arguments though

 

[Z25]

Pokechu
Poyzin
Kary
GLG
Bessie
Pythag
Z25

Z25 and Pythag I explained in #206 #364 #411

Bessie I feel like is kind of weird when it comes to her/his/their/its(? LMAO!) position on me. #222 they posted an ordered reads list, their best reads (as in least suspicious, not necessarily town) were 1. Bessie (themselves) 2. Kary 3. Me Embarrass

Kary asked this in response, here's some of what went down





But as someone who said that all content is useful in #280, Bess shouldn't be saying that this would be useless. I don't think it would be! Like maybe Kary was confused about one of my posts but Bess happened to quote that one and add what they thought about it. Like that would be super helpful right? It kind of feels to me that they didn't fully want to commit to having a more positive read on me compared to the other players for some reason (such as to mislynch, since I think the thread was still kind of mixed on me at the time? don't quote me though Pokechu, 2020) the whole sequence I just found kind of off.

In her original read list



She has GLG and Pythag both lower than Maven, and Pythag is her worst read. But she really doesn't say much about him? Like most of her Pythag posts D1 are like asking for clarification. None of it is really dunking on him like how she did with Maven in BLANK

This is what she says about Pythag in her #280, but breaking it down I really don't see how any of this contributes to a scum read.

#35 was just two jokes and I'm not sure how it could influence thoughts throughout the rest of the pages. I couldn't find what she said about #44 but unless I missed something this is all she said about #55.


Then #113, 119 and 120 are all question posts from Pythag.





But Bess never says how they're "active lurking". I'm not sure what she means to get at here. Like the last two question were in response to another player so what else is Pythag supposed to say besides his answer?? LOL Like I can definitely understand having a problem with his lack of substance. But to isolate these three posts is kind of weird imo.

She kind of dunks on him here

Also why I don’t see Pythag Chu team, Me and Pythag Chu pointed out as scum wary game and kept up with that vibe, trying to slowly push one of those lynches more.
You could argue this was good distancing,

But when Chu made such a basic mistake I honestly don’t think they understand distancing your teammates. (no offense chu)

 

[Z25]

Alright. I don't think I've ever made a Kary iso because I was always too terrified to do so; however, I'm finally going to be performing this feat.





Votes me because of a contradiction that I made that hopefully I cleared up in an earlier post.



"I don't know"



1 scum between me and GLG makes sense. Nothing gamebreaking. Also an "I don't know" moment.



Defense of GLG



Question to GLG



Question to GLG



Discussion of gamestate? I'm not really sure how to interpret this post, but there's an "I don't know" moment at the end.

To answer the question, I don't make joke kills. I've never made a joke kill, and I don't intend on making any joke kills in the future. This shouldn't be a point of discussion in my opinion, but to each their own.



Useless



Question to Pokechu.



Talking with GLG on how they kind of look scummy but that's OK so please give me some good stuff in the future keep it up.



Question to Bessie.



States that Pokechu isn't in their town pile. Will have to follow up on this point after more is brought to light on this read.





So all in all, we have another slot that hasn't done much today. There are tons of posts, but a lot of them are directed at GLG and seems to be non-chalantly trying to boost the town's perspective of GLG. Like "they look pretty scummy, it's usually obvious when their town and this game is not one of those obv!town games... but I can't support a lynch in that direction so I'll lynch Poyzin and give GLG many opportunities to make themselves look better by asking them easy questions. I'll develop a Pokechu scumread too so we have a route to take toMorrow."

That's the short version of where I'm at. Hopefully my position is very clear.

Kary already tore Into this but again this lacks a lot of content for what should be an ISO likely because he got away with that the first time. This way he thinks he comes across as trying without really putting full effort in.

By this I meant that if Pokechu were scum for some reason, and I flipped town at the end of the Day, then #364 would have been a great post for Pokechu because they knew my alignment and could get out of being suspected. I didn't think I looked town at all so I was really confused why they defended me much harder than whatever I did on D1.

Weird to question this when they held that slot in such regard. But more on that later.

To be fair, I find Kary’s case against you to be perfectly valid, so I’m not sure what your goal is in this quote besides devaluing a perfectly acceptable argument.

Letting things stir before commenting is, by definition, reactive.

Kary’s argument is that you’re playing your own game and don’t seem to be addressing the current happenings of the thread, such as me v GLG. Maybe it’s because you don’t want to be associated with GLG, and I get that if you’re scum. However, you’re playing a really quiet game in the sense that you are trying to remain low on everybody’s radar, but still trying to appear like you’re contributing through your Z25 hunt.

We’re opening up the floor to you for your opinion on who the scum is between GLG and I, if at all. Please comment on this.

Up slowly starts a trend of causally backing down from his big town read on Chu as Chu is in a position to be the next day’s lunch and their behavior is being questioned much more. Comes across as a way to set up a buss the next day and look better.

If you’re going to say this please elaborate

Furthers then trying to look better when Pokechu starts looking worse due to the already pointed out association these two slots had.

WAIT! I'm sorry , it's not like I don't care what you had to say above, as I didn't really get a chance to read it. For me, hearing what YOU have to say about GLG would be the most beneficial to me, because it seems like you've been avoiding talking about them. If I'm your top town read, then wouldn't you agree that my points on GLG would be at LEAST slightly convincing to you??

I think I was too hostile here, sorry

Why say this at all? They seem to think being to harsh can look bad. Which again comes off as him trying to save face as scum and look as good as he cane. I also can’t say I’ve ever seen Up apologize for statements before.

OK I fell asleep during my break :X so I'm still not done (almost though! a lot of my notes are still scattered though)

so here's a good checkpoint of what I do have now, I just don't want to leave you guys hanging for hours on end and I have a Zoom class in a bit smh. These all came out as like ISO's, but Z and Pythag I just collected my already-existing posts because I've said a lot about them


Pokechu
Poyzin (didn't make this draft, notes still scattered & not pretty)
Kary (ISO almost done)
GLG (Done!)
Bessie (Done!)
Pythag (Done!)
Z25 (Done!)

Z25 and Pythag

Spoiler

I explained in
#206 (touches both)
#364 (focuses on Z)
#411 (touches both)
#452 (touches both)

Bessie

Spoiler

I feel like is kind of weird when it comes to her/his/their/its(? LMAO!) position on me. #222 they posted an ordered reads list, their best reads (as in least suspicious, not necessarily town) were 1. Bessie (themselves) 2. Kary 3. Me Embarrass

Kary asked this in response, here's some of what went down





But as someone who said that all content is useful in #280, Bess shouldn't be saying that this would be useless. I don't think it would be! Like maybe Kary was confused about one of my posts but Bess happened to quote that one and add what they thought about it. Like that would be super helpful right? It kind of feels to me that they didn't fully want to commit to having a more positive read on me compared to the other players for some reason (such as to mislynch, since I think the thread was still kind of mixed on me at the time? don't quote me though Pokechu, 2020) the whole sequence I just found kind of off.

In her original read list



She has GLG and Pythag both lower than Maven, and Pythag is her worst read. But she really doesn't say much about him? Like most of her Pythag posts D1 are like asking for clarification. None of it is really dunking on him like how she did with Maven in #222 or GLG in #197.

This is what she says about Pythag in her #280, but breaking it down I really don't see how any of this contributes to a scum read.

#35 was just two jokes and I'm not sure how it could influence thoughts throughout the rest of the pages. I couldn't find what she said about #44 but unless I missed something this is all she said about #55.


Then #113, 119 and 120 are all question posts from Pythag.





But Bess never says how they're "active lurking". I'm not sure what she means to get at here. Like the last two question were in response to another player so what else is Pythag supposed to say besides his answer?? LOL Like I can definitely understand having a problem with his lack of substance. But to isolate these three posts is kind of weird imo.

She kind of dunks on him here for his #205



but really this doesn't mean anything. Like Pythag said nothing wrong. There definitely are assumed ways to play "wrong" (see: my refusal to vote and how people think it's scummy LOL ) and regardless it's easy to see what Pythag could have meant, that he just wants to have more success with his plays. He wants to play in a way that gets him more coordination overall with the town for example. Or in a way that makes his reads clearer, maybe how he goes about them. There's nothing wrong with that so I'm not sure why Bess would label it.

Like most of her commentary about Pythag really doesn't seem like Pythag deserves "worst read in the game" like I'm suspicious of Pythag too and I feel really weird almost defending him here LMAO but the way Bessie is pushing on him is wacky. Like she's not using real content to say he's bad.

Also speaking about GLG's #197 I feel like Bess' response is kind of malevolent? Like it takes it out of context


I personally liked GLG's response, it answers my question perfectly so Bessie's comment here against GLG seems a bit manufactured. She also hasn't said much about GLG aside from this so it's hard to see why she has GLG and Pythag both as worse reads than Maven. She doesn't have either dead to rights and doesn't exactly paint the picture of how they're anti-town, she just more so aired grievances with some of their posts.

Back to me though Embarrass I think some of Bess' pings in #422 are a bit janky


I think she's still a bit confused about my #291 #295 #297 but I can understand that, my mindset in those three (in case anyone else is confused) was that #291 is me thinking GLG hasn't been active, so he'll get a replacement. #295 I'm surprised and caught offguard from Z not agreeing, because I know GLG hasn't been active because I've read the thread LOL and #297 is confirming myself. I don't agree with her second point though. Z is my top scumread but that doesn't mean I have to go against everything the slot says, and Z did bring up a good point in that if GLG really was going to be replaced, he would have been prodded. Like regardless of the amount of time GLG was gone, that holds up. So I'm not sure why Bess found this strange?


you're right about my post #217! Like I just put that out to say I was going to look some more at Maven as a whole.

But if most players haven't provided an ordered town-scum list, why is it a ping that I have not as well? Or is this a typo? It's probably a typo LOL

Not sure what she means to get at about me not unvoting when GLG was the likely lynch. Is a ping necessarily bad? Or like just an eyebrow raise, like just simply interesting. That'd be nice to know! But either way I don't think it should be interesting that I stayed on Maven when I already said a couple of times D1 I was OK with GLG despite his inactivity, that I wanted to see more from him. Still think it'd be nice for Bess to have more conviction behind what she's saying, rather than just "this pinged me."


I addressed most of this but I'm not sure why she would single out my #291 either. I think one would find it weird regardless of alignment right? Like it doesn't seem alignment indicative. Like the whole fixation on me thinking GLG would replace out, seems a bit useless to point out, because of this. Like you can't gain anything from it and it's weak evidence to support a scumread imo. Not sure why she brings up my #295 without my #297 either. Like looking into it a bit closer a lot of Bess' pushes or observations are a bit confusing or a bit empty imo.

GLG

Spoiler

I said a little about him D1 throughout some posts saying I was OK with him




I also talked about him in #455

Alot of what has him on people's radars is that he's lacking town intent. But I see it the opposite way. He's not on my radar because he has no scum intent at all.







Like take this piece for example. At first I thought it strange, the fact that he just dropped it. Like after that post I made he let the point go. Scum could have easily pushed it still, and I think it looks better for scum to do that, even if I corrected him with how I only voted once with Kary. It shows motivation and acutness on his part as scum if he were to push it still, dropping it is a weak look. Like that's what really raised my unibrow here. GLG made the point that I was overly buddying, after I corrected him on it, GLG dropped the point while Z kept it on!! And it wasn't even Z's point! LOL


Like that really shows the difference between the two slots imo. If GLG was scum then I don't see why he would back down from that point so easily. I think this is town!GLG just wanting to put his thoughts out and honestly not really wanting to argue back and forth on something. Like I truly think part of GLG wanted to be lynched D1 because he doesn't have his heart in this game.

Even now he's kind of still skirting the lines for inactivity, like he hasn't shown up for almost three days. If it was scum!GLG being inactive I think he would try to make his posts "worth" more. Like put out more serious reads and posts in an attempt to not get attention. The fact that he's just really trying to get by, I feel it's town intent. like I've been in his shoes before.

This is another observation I like from GLG


This shows GLG's really picking up on things, things that go unnoticed by other people. It shows he's making connections and really testing other people's arguments. This quote was towards Z and GLG made a good point that what Z was shading applied to himself as well.

Like there isn't much content I can really analyze from GLG. But throughout the game I've liked the comments he has made and the perspective he brings to the thread. I don't have a problem with this slot

Kary

Spoiler

OK so Kary has a lot lot lot of posts. So this can't cover most of them as I did with like Bess or Pythag

I was kind of apprehensive about the slot first because I think their pushes seemed like they were looking for a mislynch. Like their push on Zest seemed a bit malicious for instance and I questioned them on that



I feel like her answer is kind of weak with regards to why she wanted Zest lynched and I found it confusing overall. It can be fun to bully the new kid LMAO but turbo lynching them D1? I feel like that's asking for a mislynch and I didn't see this as a town's perspective.

I also didn't like their response to me saying that it's kind of townie for Poyzin to defend Zest. I felt like their tone is more "shutting down" than being willing to hear opposing views on it.



And this quote

I read this as her saying they can't both be town, when in reality she's saying both are probably not scum, only one at most, but I think it's still a bit weird to read from a veteran player. Like she must have had to seen some CRAZY stuff in DGamesia right???? LMAO like I can't judge her because I'm OK with both Poy and GLG but it's just posts like these, and the one about Poyzin being town defending Zest, that made me wary at first because I think town!Kary would usually have more consideration.

This quote a bit too


because I feel like D3 is probably LyLo? If there's 9 players I couldn't see there being more than 2 scum (3 scum seems like too much ). and I think, doing the math in my head, if toDay's lynch is town, D3 would be LyLo. So saying that she'd quick lynch Poyzin like this gives me pause too

However, I also really do like some of their other posts, and I think these few quotes I've picked out, I can account to just differences in playstyle. Like I'm down to clown so I'm open to wild rides but Kary as a whole is more strict with her plays so I'm willing to look past some of the posts that raise my unibrow. And as a whole her post quantity and quality show that she's dedicated to the game, which I feel more coming from town than scum, especially since there's a lot of players here who aren't putting out much content. Like it would be easy for Kary to coast by as scum.

Here are some of the posts that I do think show town!Kary really easily

Poyzin

Spoiler

my thoughts on him are still scattered around in my role PM!!! he didn't make this checkpoint

Pokechu chooses time cover almost every slot in the game completely. The only one that was missing was UP as Kary was nearly done.

That’s another big red flag when you look at all their interactions. Why post this at all? Why have literally nothing to say about up at first? Why? Because as Chu says here the notes are in the pm, their scum pm mind you.

Because Scum isn’t compiling notes like that in their scum chat. This is a very coy slip that I think perfectly proves UP is their scum mate. Everything they could say about them is in their PM because they’ve been mates talking to each other.

There’s no reason for Up to not be in this original list, unless they needed more time to buy a reasonable explanation on why their mate was town.

Finished the last two!


Kary

Spoiler

OK so Kary has a lot lot lot of posts. So this can't cover most of them as I did with like Bess or Pythag

I was kind of apprehensive about the slot first because I think their pushes seemed like they were looking for a mislynch. Like their push on Zest seemed a bit malicious for instance and I questioned them on that



I feel like her answer is kind of weak with regards to why she wanted Zest lynched and I found it confusing overall. It can be fun to bully the new kid LMAO but turbo lynching them D1? I feel like that's asking for a mislynch and I didn't see this as a town's perspective.

I also didn't like their response to me saying that it's kind of townie for Poyzin to defend Zest. I felt like their tone is more "shutting down" than being willing to hear opposing views on it.



And this quote

I read this as her saying they can't both be town, when in reality she's saying both are probably not scum, only one at most, but I think it's still a bit weird to read from a veteran player. Like she must have had to seen some CRAZY stuff in DGamesia right???? LMAO like I can't judge her because I'm OK with both Poy and GLG but it's just posts like these, and the one about Poyzin being town defending Zest, that made me wary at first because I think town!Kary would usually have more consideration.

This quote a bit too


because I feel like D3 is probably LyLo? If there's 9 players I couldn't see there being more than 2 scum (3 scum seems like too much ). and I think, doing the math in my head, if toDay's lynch is town, D3 would be LyLo. So saying that she'd quick lynch Poyzin like this gives me pause too

However, I also really do like some of their other posts, and I think these few quotes I've picked out, I can account to just differences in playstyle. Like I'm down to clown so I'm open to wild rides but Kary as a whole is more strict with her plays so I'm willing to look past some of the posts that raise my unibrow. And as a whole her post quantity and quality show that she's dedicated to the game, which I feel more coming from town than scum, especially since there's a lot of players here who aren't putting out much content. Like it would be easy for Kary to coast by as scum.

Here are some of the posts that I do think show town!Kary really easily


This is her asking Pythag to expand on one of his observations about a comment from Bessie. It's simple but shows that she's actually interested in what people have to say. Like scum!Kary could have left Pythag with his original, weirdly vague answer and then later on chosen to vote for him and say "he's not motivated to give real reads here's an example" LMAO like if Kary was scum she really does not have to be as inquiring, and it would be kind of bad for her to. Usually if people have more content then that means they could be read better, she could've used this to turn Pythag into a mislynch

This shows that Kary is actively making connections between players and testing their arguments. It's a good question to ask too because it achieves all three. Like it gets her commentary from Bessie about Pythag, about me, and also tests Bessie's read. It's also pretty innovative (trying to draw attention from Pythag to me) and shows a lot of town intent. Simple but effective

She really caught T-Rax here!!! I think she was the first one to throw shade at him actually and she makes a really good observation (why was he asking those questons?). Really showcases initiative on her part and it's insightful. I felt like he was just asking questions to gather discussion but it is true he could be asking them as scum to adjust his plays.

Like there's a lot of quotes one could bring up to make the point that Kary has a pro-town mindset. Just how she's taking things in her own hands and determined to further her reads and get more content out of people. Her idea of asking me to be her doublevote is clever for instance. But I really didn't think I was lacking in content !!!! Making these ISOs I'm kind of realizing, yeah, I was lmao

Poyzin

Spoiler

My read on him falls in the same vein as GLG but better. I think the slot really has zero scum intent, and that's why he's higher than Kary. I think it's likelier for Kary to do what she is, as scum, than it would be for Poyzin because if he's scum he'd be getting his cheeks CLAPPED LMAO

I mentioned this D1 but I think his defense of Zest really shows a town mindset

But I didn't even capture all of it. A handful of people found it super strange that Poy would go so far as to look into Zest's history, but I found that really town. Like, scum has SO many better things to use their time on. Like discuss night kills and actions, mislynches, busses, etc. I would be very surprised if a scum player said "hey! it'd be a good idea to look at this random dude's history!!!" LOL

And to those finding it suspicious, I really don't find it any different from asking someone for a past game where they were scum, like T-Rax did to me. Or asking someone to make comparisons between games like Kary did to Pythag. Like it's just trying to use past history to make a read or a move now. There's really nothing scummy about it imo

I feel like the slot doesn't have much content for me to really discuss, like D1 they did just focus on GLG. But they make a good observation on T-Rax here


which showcases T-Rax's passive playstyle and highlights how he wasn't really making stances with his meta questions. With Poy's comment here I can believe that he's coming from a town mindset and not just inactive scum.

Poy's D2 is much better though with ISO's on GLG and Kary, I agree with Kary in that if GLG flips town then the argument is a lot weaker for her but I think Poyzin made a few good comments. I talked a little about it in #455 but here's some more comments

good point here against GLG when he said that Poy must've intended for his whole "statistics" thing to be taken seriously, I didn't think about it like this at first when reading GLG's piece. But I don't think it's damning against GLG but rather shows his argument was just a bit shortsighted (and I can see that from a busy town player).


The wording here confuses me a little bit and I'm not sure why. Like Poy's push on GLG should suggest to lynch GLG D3? Is that what it's trying to say? Well duh like Poy wants GLG lynched except he wants him lynched toDay so I don't think it's that. I get the bigger picture (that GLG was able to generate content from Kary's question and suggest alternative lynches) but that last bit about "my push on you should suggest" boggles me for some reason. Maybe it's a brainfart. I've been meaning to ask this question

This one too. Can I get a post number for this?

I also think this is interesting and agree with it. I feel like Kary's 180 from the slot is a bit weird. Like suspicion was lessened a bit too quickly. But I can think of reasons for it

I think that Poy in these ISOs has his thinking cap on for sure. He uses some D1 posts against Kary but he also shows a difference between D1 for Kary and D2, possibly because Kary wants to elevate GLG a little bit. Like Kary's D2 isn't as strong as her D1. I would believe it but I simply think Kary and GLG are town. They're very good points, but I think Poy is just missing the bigger picture here. It's believable that Kary would have so much patience with GLG because they're town and don't want two mislynches, right? But I think that Poy made a lot of observations that show a willingness to listen, solve, and help the town, even if not all of them are correct.

I think I'll make some more comments about Pythag (he's the only one I haven't specifically ISO'd now), talk about Z's #365, and also Kary's #427 since I never got back to it after my #429

Overly long post made just to show Up as town and set up their supposed clear the next day.

But we aren’t done yet. Part whatever number this coming this summer next

 

[Z25]

For the next part rather then quote individual messages, I’d say read page 13. It’s a lot of back and forth between Chu and Up discussing mechanics and a few other things, but with neither side creating any meaningful contributions to the game at hand. But now the final part:

You’re not wrong, but I fail to see how that supports the idea of a Poyzin + GLG scumteam by me being inactive for a portion of D2, while my content that I have posted very much exemplifies my current thought process.

Up admits to be purposely inactive in response to Kary here to form a new opinion.

Also you’re currently voting Pokechu? You may want to change that to match, unless you’re alright with the contradiction.

Again UP goes out of his way to bring up Pokechu, why? Likely a last ditch attempt on day 2 to still try and protect his mate. Mind you this is also around the time he starts trying to say Chu is possibly scum but doesn’t fully commit to it, focusing on a Kary and GLG team that will then evolve into Kary and Pokechu team.

I wish I could explain it more but I’m really starting feeling that you and Z25 are TvT. Like both of you have valid arguments against each other but I think that you might both be town here.

This aged absolutely poory(Up responding to a pokechu post)

And again how does he go from saying they are probably scum to Town again? Doesn’t add up. He has shown nothing but restraint from full on reading Pokechu scum. That is very telling of his alignment.

I support No Lynch too! You're asking Sabrar and not me but I want to talk after a few days of blathering in my role PM :]

If we No Lynch then we get an extra day phase! Hopefully. I mean, there's 6 of us now, right? If there were three scum remaining we'd have already lost. So if there's 2 scum, and we mislynch today, and they nightkill, we lose. But if we No Lynch today and they nightkill, we still have a D4! I think. if you're a third party raise your hand

also I kind of concur with Poyzin that the missing night kill could be a set up from someone?? I think it was like, keep everyone alive so that way it's harder for town to pick out the scum. Their odds go up a bit basically. But by no lynching, we throw it right back at them!!!

Z's def scum but I still think people are really overlooking Pythag, my second top scumread. So him. Still him. Because he's really showed a lack of initiative and I feel like not in a good way? Like GLG i could see it coming from "busy town" (which, given his flip, it probably did). But if half of all your posts are just questions???? I feel like, it's not that your best food isn't forward, it's that a foot at all isn't forward!!!! I could at least see an attempt with GLG but I can't with Pythag. Also I think his posts towards you were kind of weird? Like when he said you said GLG was clear for instance. I think he wasn't caught up and he tried to explain it in #555 but it was on mobile or it glitched or something. IDK

But I'm definitely interested in putting the spotlight on Pythag toDay. I'm also interested in what others have to say about him because I feel like as a whole, like he hasn't posted much, and people haven't discussed him much.

Chu again overly supports UP and then brings back the Pythag Z team.

I can’t see Chu risking scum Pythag like that when it wasn’t looking good for them. Tells me Pythag is likely town.

Definitely not you LMAO

The list is

2. UtopianPoyzin
4. Z25
6. Pythag
7. Pokechu
8. Kary
9. Sabrar

Going just off of circumstance, I could see Sab doing it maybe? Since just they replaced in yesterDay, maybe they want to put more content out there. To be honest it sounds like something Z and I might do too, with how the NZone played sometimes. But Z isn't really suspected so the extra day probably wouldn't help him .

I don't think Poy would do it, you probably wouldn't either. I could see Pythag doing it to get more content out as well. The last two lynches have been inactive towns LOL

Chu sees Poy as Town and agrees with their reasoning in why no night kill could have happened. But then proceeds to put UP at the top of this list. Implying that Chu would think Up is likely scum but never follows up on this logic. Doesn’t make sense to put a town UP in this slot, but could be a coy Scum Chunkutting Scum Poy here as that’s exactly why they did no night kill and Up could have been the one to do so.

UtopianPoyzin before I continue any other discussion, your a more important topic.

Why so quiet? Especially when your a big part of this topic and discussion at hand.

Chu is on the hot seat here and Up waits a long time before answering even after being tagged. Likely cause he doesn’t know how to properly respond.

Boo! I scared you. I’ve kinda sandbagged this phase but I don’t think my opinion is that much of help given how poorly I played the previous phase.



I am in fact a vanilla tinier, but I do want to support Z because I’m very skeptical that a rolecop result would tell you the alignment. Unless you’re inserting your opinions into it, which I’m not sure if you said you have or not.




However, I do want to support Pokechu because I think this is a cheesy and hasty push based on results that only Pokechu has received, so if they turn out to be true then we will look silly for lynching him.

Despite everything Up still refuses to full on change their read to Scum Chu. Very odd behavior for a townie supposedly.

FINE... Why would you ever vote me if I’m confirmed town for you? Motivation? If so, just say my name or ping me. Hopefully you haven’t forgotten that you’re scum, right?

Out of the two, I think Z25 has the greater probability of being innocent

Now Up has a magic turnaround after being voted in what feels like a supper forced reaction. Also he literally just said this:

However, I do want to support Pokechu because I think this is a cheesy and hasty push based on results that only Pokechu has received, so if they turn out to be true then we will look silly for lynching him

He believed Pokechu could still be town but now there’s a vote on him and he flips. Makes no sense as a natural move or reaction here.

My limited experience tells me you shouldn’t take your fierce opponent out for a nice wine evening, but that’s just me. (Don’t take it the wrong way I’m sorry )

Contributes really nothing to the Pokechu debate but thinks this can help him look better if he calls out Chu. This post is a complete opposite view and behavior in the slot prior, that feels as a big turnaround.

I’ve heard surprising little out of #HBC | Kary and I’m well aware that I look like a hypocrite but I’m going to cool my jets, sleep, and wake up to read his hot D3 analysis

Here we have Up trying to draw attention away from Pokechu and On Kary. Trying to push his team that makes no sense and ignoring Pokechu yet again.

Heh, my word isn’t worth much because I know everybody else susses me to some degree, but it’s time for another Kary ISO.

In full disclosure I’m going to be operating under the assumption that the team is Kary and Pokechu. I realized that people might not like it when I call a post useless this time, so instead of calling posts useless I’ll just call them absolutely nothing and ignore them.







Imagine making the statement that even though I was absent for two days, I become more scum. Scum!Poy would have made sure to fabricate 2 reads before the deadline, but I didn’t end up doing that. I’m aware that there is a certain level of wine there but I’m going to ask everybody to be realistic about it, as I won’t address it any further.















So this post shows Kary’s stance on Pokechu as being scum, calling their post horse****. It’s not even that bad of an argument, but of course knowing that Pokechu is scum is a nice boost in confidence.















The tick tock is needlessly threatening, considering I’m not terribly bothered with Kary’s scum read on me because I have a similar, less confident scumread on them.







This is pretty close to a scumslip if I’ve ever seen one. Kary is completely oozing with confidence now.







I personally disagree with the premise that toMorrow’s vote is solely up to you.



I do applaud your efforts at trying to make votes in your direction be illogical.



Your bulletproof claim makes a good lick of sense considering it’s your alibi towards not dying in the night, because “scum was persuaded not to kill you”.

The only reason I’m not pushing Kary harder than I want to is because I flopped heavily with GLG and I’m not too keen on flopping again. Like I was so sold on GLG being scum that my other scumread since D2, being Kary, became basically conditional on GLG’s flip. And when GLG flipped town, Kary looked a lot better because my D1-D2 logic became skewed so much that everything I believed in was dependent on GLG flipping scum. And that didn’t happen. That’s why I took some time away from the game so that I could flush my confidence down a partially dilapidated sink in a gas station. I still think that Kary might be scum, but if nobody else believes me and wants to follow Kary to the grave, I’d be alright with losing to him.

In hindsight, I suppose Kary did save GLG for a great reason. GLG was being widely scumread, and Maven was being scumread to a lesser extent AFAIWA. Taking advantage of a Maven lynch early was great, because Kary knew I would still be locked in the GLG mislynch wagon. If GLG was taken out immediately, I would have been more open-minded now that my all-or-nothing push was out of the game. But by sparing GLG, I was left disabled for one more day and Maven’s wagon was a great opportunity to take advantage of.

And as for my experience with the Kary meta, they typically don’t go for the easy lurkers. Now he has been wrong twice in a row, a true rarity for Kary, and they have a renewed sense of confidence with Pokechu again? Every nerve in my body is telling me this is a bus if I’ve ever seen one. Z25 will be dead tomorrow and Kary can use their Bulletproof claim as a reason for why they’re still alive, despite them being the “towniest townie in the game” (a loose paraphrase from #781.) Now I’m usually wrong, and y’all don’t have to roll with me if you don’t want to, but Kary is the move for me after Pokechu, unless we want to try no lynching.

And as for the ISO, it’s been another rather uneventful day for Kary. Confidence in their Pokechu quotes, but not much else besides questions and general “what if”s. I really don’t see how y’all are reading Kary so highly as town.

Up goes a lot more in on this ISO, but the fact he does this during the Pokechu battle yesterday, and barely did anything with the previous ISOs feels like a blatant attempt to set up a Kary Mislynch.

And this is the end of Let’s Lynch Up!

Again I’m all for discussion but I think my posts paint a pretty likely Up as last scum