Flavorless Mafia II: Gave over. Who won?

[ranmaru]

I have invited a friend from MU to replace for Darkpit, welcome Mars™ to the game!

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 1.4

Red Ryu
Mars™
Gheb: Red Ryu
Ryker: Bardull
Maven: Ryker
Bardull: Maven, Gheb, Vult Redux, Xivii (L-1)
Xivii:
Soup:
Vult Redux

Not voting:
soup, Mars™

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
Mars has replaced Darkpit.

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 1 is September 21, at 11:59 PM.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

If you're going to say that my reasoning doesn't make sense in a lot of things, I expect you to individually knock down all these things as opposed to making an entire blanket statement on my play. Let's not be lazy.



I felt that the original approach to Zen's slot, followed by an immediate 180, was indicative of a lack of ingenuity due to how stark of a turnaround it was.

The points aren't strong because your reasoning isn't there. I just told you why I thought that, it wasn't a matter of making a blanket statement.

You're reading too hard into a simple interaction that could be null at best, and the more you try to explain it the more it looks worse for you.

 

[Mars™]

Confirming, I'll read back asap.

 

[Vult Redux]

! welcome Mars!! I'm so excited to play with someone new.

Vote: Bardull

great! now we just have to wait for the mafia to #expose themselves

 

[Vult Redux]

You'd be hard-pressed to make me believe your vote is serious. You've been jumping around incessantly, and when I finally bite and go for Ryker, you turn around and try to stab me in the back regarding content that isn't truly conducive to scummy behavior. What are you trying to achieve with this style of play?

you were trying to label me as "pivoting" even during RVS!

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with "style of play". I try to play as "unfiltered" as possible and be transparent with my reads and I do change my mind frequently. In general. But I don't think I have even done it in this game (I hadn't had a read on you and then when i did, it happened to be negative... it's not like my read on you moved from e.g. very town to very scum).

soooo I'm surprised that a) you're bringing it up at all and b) you're trying to frame it negatively. that does bother me (on a gameplay level!! ofc I'm not taking anything personally) and think it might be something you would more likely do as scum than as town.

If you analyze my posts, you'll see that I have reason to push for Ryker

i missed the part of the post where you talked a bit about ryker and I think this is a fair point.

 

[Vult Redux]

all i can think about is if i were scum!Mars I would hammer town!Bardull and then pretend to be a noob to mafia, taking advantage of no one knowing my meta <___<

but i won't unvote because I am excited to see how much harder scum!gheb denounces the wagon on his buddy (:

 

[Vult Redux]

^^ "his buddy" referring to scum!Bardull, I mean

 

[Xivii]

Unvote

I hadn't actually read Bardull's / soup earlier when I made that vote. I like him. I think soup is a scummer still.

 

[Xivii]

Spoiler: snip

Additionally, why have you ignored soups responses?

Never said criticism towards me should be invalid; there are plenty of areas worthy of critique. I gave what I feel to be an appropriate response to Zen's question as to why I didn't respond to you. Do you find anything to be inherently flawed with the points raised in my #64? The only problem you seem to have with it is presumed posturing, and not the content of the points made themselves. Instead, you threw slander in my direction by saying I was stroking my own ego.

Where is the scum intent in not responding to his response right away?

It's not suspicious because of a possible scum motive, but for a lack of town motive. Usually when someone questions another it is because they are attempting to develop a read on them, but you just did nothing after he responded. What you say here though gives me a better understanding of where you're coming from.

I chose Soup mainly to get a feel for him, then move on once I was satisfied. His response was null at best, but it was worth a shot. I try to avoid confrontation with Soup if it can be helped.

I don't feel like talking about soup, trying to read the slot makes me not enjoy the game. I'll let you deal with it. If you think that I'm somehow scum as a result, that's hilarious, but I don't care.

For this reason, do you think made a mistake in choosing soup as your starting point? This is actually why I asked you if you chose it tactically.

 

[Xivii]

do you think you*

one of these days id like to have a post without a single error

I haven't come into this game with any prejudice.

I'd say that between you two and your attempts yours is a little bit better on a bias that you're Zen and I understand you way better than Bardull whose pure reactionary playstyle usually is not for some benefit in the long-run rather just stroking his own ego. You believe that's town for some reason though.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Zen, that was directly to Bardull because he said I had prejudice against him.

 

[Xivii]

And that quote shows you do, doesn't it?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't understand what you're trying to do man, honestly.

 

[Xivii]

Do you not see that having a bias and a prejudice are the same thing?

 

[Xivii]

It's not important really. I do think it's unfair of you to have made that presumption about him.

Regardless, I want to talk about that post for another reason. It seems unnecessarily antagonistic of you. I get the idea from it that you're attempting to get a rise out of him there.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I feel stupid and contagious for it but I can't draw anything from the exchanges between soup, Bardull and Zen. It's like a giant, messy circle-jerk of nit-picking irrelevant points in hopes of getting something started but nobody dares to actually put out their neck over a point. Like, you guys should read your own posts froman outsider's position, it's completely ridiculous. Vult honestly isn't helping much either.

My contribution? At this point I honestly just hope that either #HBC | Ryker or Maven89 show up and drop a quick hammah on Bardull. That'd be like 10x more helpful than all this pointless brabbling.

 

[Xivii]

Vote: Gheb

 

[Xivii]

That's the most overtly malicious post that's been made so far. A genuine attempt at a quick lynch and continued attempt to stifle discussion. Gheb is scum.

 

[Xivii]

Current Scum Probability Chart:

Gheb - 85%
Maven - ?
Mars - ?

soup - 55%
Bardull - 53%

Ryker - 45%
Ryu - 20%
Vult - 15 %

I would lynch any of those first three. Ryker should probably be in the null section and Bardull as a town lean, but I'm partially basing those two reads on their relation to Gheb so far.


---

soup, I really have no hidden agenda with my questions towards you. Throughout the game, I just want you to address your (apparent) inconsistencies and to address any actions that myself or others might take suspicion of. I want to get a better understanding of you and for my suspicions to be relieved.

Side note: I keep meaning to compliment you on how much you've improved since we've last played. Your posts in general are a lot more cool-headed and analytic. I enjoyed reading your posts in pyp a lot and I'm really glad to be playing with you again.

 

[ranmaru]

Maven89 has been prodded.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Zen, you're not good at this.

 

[BarDulL]

I hope everyone actually reads over what has been said, and doesn't quicklynch me based on weird misconceptions about my character that aren't true.

I'm just waiting for other people to make their point.

 

[Vult Redux]

i feel bad for not commenting on anything about soup so far. I haven't been reading his posts; was focusing on other people

not sure how i feel about recent posts; I'm not a fan of gheb #97 but I can't say it makes me hate him. ironically it actually does make him look more likely like a partner for Bardull.

zen's reads seem... strong. even though we have some agreement on reads I don't think we're on the same page wrt reasoning

i've been really busy today and will be busy probably tomorrow too. i will catch up i promise

 

[Maven89]

Too soon, you have awoken me too soon, executus

(aka i'm here now, sup reading up)

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

It's not important really. I do think it's unfair of you to have made that presumption about him.

Regardless, I want to talk about that post for another reason. It seems unnecessarily antagonistic of you. I get the idea from it that you're attempting to get a rise out of him there.

Actually, it was more like I was goading you into a response. I didn't think you laid out your reasoning to townread Bardull so I wanted to see what you would say once I gave my perspective. You still haven't really talked too much about how/why iirc.

That being said, Gheb's behavior is expected but it's not exactly productive.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Vult how are you seeing that Bardull/Gheb suddenly makes sense because of his #97? That's not the impression I got at all.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

soup, I really have no hidden agenda with my questions towards you. Throughout the game, I just want you to address your (apparent) inconsistencies and to address any actions that myself or others might take suspicion of. I want to get a better understanding of you and for my suspicions to be relieved.

Side note: I keep meaning to compliment you on how much you've improved since we've last played. Your posts in general are a lot more cool-headed and analytic. I enjoyed reading your posts in pyp a lot and I'm really glad to be playing with you again.

I just think you're taking small things and making them into bigger things, as simple as I can put it. I don't know why you zeroed in on my word choice but when I was talking about a bias I guess you could also attribute it to meta, and in this case I have a better meta on you than I do Red Ryu where you tend to be a bit hectic and do reactionary things, which isn't the same for Ryu.

The thread is pretty barebones so I don't have anything else aside from that. I don't think the Bardull wagon is as strong as he's making it out to be, but that makes me wonder why he's overreacting. I don't townread Bardull but you've essentially got Maven who just decided to catch up, Gheb who has taken a more stand-offish approach to the thread as usual, and Vult who has been talking big about Bardull being scum this whole time. If Bardull were scum here I don't believe that Vult would be pushing his partner immediately off the gate, and I don't really know how to take Gheb at this rate. Maven is essentially null until he does something too.

I have my eyes on the replacement at the moment if I'm under the impression of Bardull=Scum, because everyone else on there right now doesn't make too much sense to me. There's also Ryu who I'm a bit skeptical of.

 

[Maven89]

Does anyone have a problem with Bardull's #64? It seemed perfectly townie to me, his explanation made sense and nothing about it seemed scum. It just looked like a town player explaining his early game RVS and actions to people who were taking it all too seriously. I read him town for it and I'm surprised that Bardull was almost lynched.

Vote: Xivii

Unvote

I hadn't actually read Bardull's / soup earlier when I made that vote. I like him. I think soup is a scummer still.

Well that's ****ing suspicious, especially considering Bardul was put to L-1 by the vote.

I don't like most of his content in between that vote and the following vote. It seems really small and not very relevant.

That's the most overtly malicious post that's been made so far. A genuine attempt at a quick lynch and continued attempt to stifle discussion. Gheb is scum.

And then there is this. Gheb's post is pretty clear to me, he can't read what's going on and wants a flip to help him. Really selfish, sure, but that's Gheb's play most of the time. What I have trouble seeing is why Scum!Gheb or any scum player would openly post that if they were scum. I also have trouble believing Xivii really thinks this is scumGheb, especially not to 85% certainty that he gave him in the following post.

So right now I'm voting Xivii because I hate his recent content. I'm interested in seeing what Vult has to say on this.

 

[Xivii]

Gheb - 80%
Mars - ?

soup - 55%
Bardull - 55%
Ryker - 50%

Maven - 20%
Ryu - 20%
Vult - 15 %

 

[Xivii]

I have my eyes on the replacement at the moment if I'm under the impression of Bardull=Scum, because everyone else on there right now doesn't make too much sense to me. There's also Ryu who I'm a bit skeptical of.

Assuming Bardull isn't scum, what are your reads?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Reading. Uno momento.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

#HBC | Ryker , do you have any leads or feel that anyone is particularly scummy at the moment?

Not particularly? At least not at this juncture. If you put a gun in my hand and told me to pull the trigger RIGHT NOW, I'd shoot an inactive.

But I'm not done reading, so maybe that'll change.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Funnily enough, Gheb pointed out why that is in his #61. I'd say that between you two and your attempts yours is a little bit better on a bias that you're Zen and I understand you way better than Bardull whose pure reactionary playstyle usually is not for some benefit in the long-run rather just stroking his own ego. You believe that's town for some reason though.

What are you basing those comments about Bardull's playstyle off of? He's been pretty proactive this game. What does that say?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

As far as being defensive, I'm kinda pissed at Zen and Vult for asking me to assist them, then they did a 180 and are now suggesting I be lynched. That's pretty much my approach to them at this point in the game.

Ok, but what does that make their alignment?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I was actually fighting the urge to put Gheb in my town list because his posts were null but funny until he made the quick lynch comment. Jesus Christ what was that?

Maven's most recent post is split into defending Bardull and excusing Gheb. One I agree with, the other I don't. The other thing he does is throw shade at Zen, which is perfectly acceptable given that vote to L-1.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Random thoughts before I disappear until Monday:

Zen - Disliked that he put Bardull at L-1, but do like that he backed off.

Maven - Essentially working off one post. Need to see more reads evolve.

Vult - I like him more than most of the thread. Is pushing to move things along.

Bardull - I actually like him, believe it or not. I don't think he's one anything to warrant a lynch.

Mars - Post, bruh. I got nothing.

Gheb - ^

Ruy - I've seen some posting but none of it reads as meaningful.

Soup - IGMEOY. You take a party pooper stance on things and are looking at Bardull who I have no problem with. What are your thoughts on Gheb right now?

 

[Xivii]

If you put a gun in my hand and told me to pull the trigger RIGHT NOW, I'd shoot an inactive.

Before you go, is this still the case?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll get to this tomorrow, I had a birthday friday and saturday I attended.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That being said, Gheb's behavior is expected but it's not exactly productive.

What do you mean by 'expected'?

You were expecting me to come in and ask for Bardull to be dropped the hammer upon? What exactly was it you were expecting?