Flavorless Mafia II: Gave over. Who won?

[#HBC | Mac]

mac's reasoning/reads aren't good

... whose reads are good? noone has even remotely the same reads as anyone else so what would you even classify as having good reads and how come you're not suspicious of anyone else for their bad reads? why would having bad reads even be scummy.

also i think my reasoning is pretty solid at least for ryker scum. i actually am not sure why you hate my slot when I at least at committing to a strong stance unlike most of town. like what has ryker said or done that is so much more legit than I?

anyway, i'm kinda at a loss with this game and kinda like zen my reads (save for ryker) have been kinda fluctuating. Hopefully a flip will fix this stuff, but i don't think it will because of how much people jumped around with reads this game so connections are murky. anyway im gonna reread farreal this time

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Case in point: you say Mac and soup have to go because the former has bad reads and the latter hasn't hunted scum. Fine.

Then explain to me why you're so unwilling to lynch Ryker when he has neither presented good reads nor truly attempted to find scum. That still doesn't add up. Especially since you have Maven, who has done more than Ryker - perhaps insignificantly so but still - as your secondary lynch choice. That adds up to you well enough to happy with your reads? At this point I feel very much justified in calling your reads bad.

lol thank you gheb, my fav player in this game rn

 

[#HBC | Mac]

We should get the lynch candidate to L-1 now with a hammer ready so we can have time to switch if they claim Mason.

#HBC | Ryker #HBC | Red Ryu

Vote: Gheb

#HBC | Mac I know you have a town read on Gheb for some reason, but if you vote him with me, I swear I will give you my vote tomorrow if I'm wrong. I know you what that double vote boi.

i'm sorry but I don't get this at all

 

[Xivii]

Like, do you guys get why I'm pushing on this? Saying "Gheb contradicted himself let's lynch him" is either a horrible mafia push or lack of reading comprehension. I'm thinking for Xivii there's a chance it's both.

I believe you're only looking at it on the surface. You're not looking at why Gheb changes his tone. I get why the post Vult quoted can be taken ambiguously, but the post I quoted in my case is not ambiguous. Gheb WAS NOT RESPONDING TO VULTS PUSH THERE. He was having a serious discussion with Red Ryu in the post I quoted. Look at that and tell me if you can see what we are saying.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I'd like to point out again here that Gheb not specifically referring to me in this statement is extremely telling. I'm not sure how to explain it any further without going into the mess that Psychology is. I think it's something that you either get or you don't. If you don't get it, then ignore this, re-read the first two sentences above and go on to the next point.

you tryna say that gheb was trying to put the idea into towns head that putting bard at L-1 was scummy / problematic? inception style? if so wouldn't that mean he was trying to shed some scummy light on you?

The reason why Gheb does this is because he is being pushed for two different reasons. He needs to appeal to Me, Ryu and others by making it appear that his hammer comment was not serious but rather just him trying to get something going. On the other hand, the third person pushing his wagon -- Vult -- is going him at on a different basis. As shown in the spoiler tags above, Vult is pushing him because he believes that Gheb was actually trying to derail the Bardull train and distance himself from Bardull at the same time.

Even though Bardull probably isn't Gheb's scum mate, it still did not look good for him. Vult believed it (or at least made it out as though he did) and that's all that matters. Gheb needed to show Vult that he was serious -- he wasn't derailing the Bardull wagon, he wanted him lynched!

Oh yes, this is despite the fact that Bardull was his only town read, which he states in the very same paragraph.

idk i can't imagine Gheb actually feeling pressured enough by the posts regarding him that it'd push him to act inconsistently in the way you're describing. when I read these posts I got the sense that was acting this way just cuz he didn't care about how he was being perceived and was just posting what immediately came to mind

but actually this is a fair point/push Zen, @~ Gheb ~ can you briefly explain what was going through your head during this part of the thread?

Part 2: Staged? I'll Show You Staged!

Plot Summary:

A man in a bear suit and the Egyptian God of Earth become best friends after realizing they both like to murder innocent villagers.

tl;dwrite

Order of Events:

• Maven is absent from the game.
• I call out Gheb scum.
• Maven appears. Defends Gheb from call out. Attacks me for putting Bardull at L-1. In the very same post defends Gheb for wanting to genuinely lynch Bardull. Rather than me quoting it, scroll up, it's in the quote above.

• Maven and Gheb have an awkward interaction that is never concluded.
• Maven disappears.

• I call out Gheb's contradictions.
• Maven appears and attacks me for the contradictions not existing.
• The contradictions exist. Maven is speaking nonsense.
  

Do you guys want to claim Masons so we can get the counter claim? Or should we just end it. Sorry if this has all come off a bit abrasive. I'm a little sleep drunk.

I feel like based off this you should be pushing Maven more than gheb

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Back and significantly less angry. Reading and then posting.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

also i think my reasoning is pretty solid at least for ryker scum. i actually am not sure why you hate my slot when I at least at committing to a strong stance unlike most of town. like what has ryker said or done that is so much more legit than I?

Do me a favor. Outline those reasons without the point you dropped earlier instead of alluding to them for me.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I'm gonna flog you. I'm about done with this ****. You and Mac can both eat **** if you want to lynch me over slots that have contributed far less.

like who

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Maven, Ruy, and Soup at the very least.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

What the ****? I've done less than MAVEN? All Maven has done is suck your ****.

lol i guess I should finish reading before asking questions. but actually can you list all the slots you think you've contributed more than

Do me a favor. Outline those reasons without the point you dropped earlier instead of alluding to them for me.

#200 and #222 are where i go into the bulk of my reasoning

 

[Vult Redux]

Vult Redux You saying Gheb was his scum buddy was meant to be facetious? Is this correct?

and therefore Gheb's response was only directed towards your real meaning and not the "gheb is is scumbuddy" joke?

if i recall correctly i had a mild dislike toward gheb at the time which is probably why I named him over someone else but what I meant by "I wanted to see how Gheb defends his buddy Bardull! lol!" was another way of saying "I wanted to see how people react to Bardull at L-1"

that's what I think, yes. I was open about it too. I literally said what I interpreted it as! I'm not making up now what I thought. xD See:

i like his infamous post a lot more when it's framed as adding pressure to get other players to react to the wagon

Gheb never corrected me! Nor responded to it at all, keep in mind!!

-

Mac, I was frustrated when I wrote that and I worded it poorly. I didn't mean for it to sound as antagonistic as it does and I'm sorry. I'm going to reread you again but my first impression was that some of your points on Ryker were such a reach that it was intentional/scum-driven

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I'm gonna flog you. I'm about done with this ****. You and Mac can both eat **** if you want to lynch me over slots that have contributed far less.

also wtf is this in general. ppl on smashboards still get super emotional when they get pushed apparently? honestly ryker you're too good at this game to be so easily frustrated by someone pushing your slot and it doesn't read genuine.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

This post does not add up to enough to have me be the only thing on your radar.

Vote: Ryker
He is the play.

I agree with bardull, Ryker's first post is prolly the scummiest thing that's happened this game

Zen makes a dumb RVS vote on Ryker and his response just feels so wrong.



I don't really see how Zen's posts till that point could have triggered Ryker enough to make him want to ignore Zen. I don't understand why he's already assuming he'd be jumping down Zen's throat toDay. Especially since clearly Zen was just ****ing around with his vote and there's nothing from his posts that would make it seem like he and Ryker would go at it all Day.

Maybe Ryker's post was supposed to be funny? in a weird reverse sarcasm meta type way and he was only pretending to get worked up over Zen's ****. Idk..

It doesn't help that Ryker seemed to sit back most of the Day and hasn't really contributed much. At least not until his one wave of questions to bardull and soup (albeit good questions). But they were the kind of Qs that didn't really give us insight into what Ryker's reads were. They were the kind of Qs scum could give that would make it appear that they were contributing. Also it doesn't seem like Ryker took anything away from the responses he's gotten

I also really dislike his reads post, mostly because he doesn't give reasons for why he thinks bardull is town and soup leans scum. Also the timing of it feels gross given how Bardulls wagon went down.

Zen town, vult town,

prolly bardull town just cuz I agreed with him on Ryker early on, and his defense (despite being overly defensive) read like exasperated town (though I do want him to better explain how someone talking negatively about him would make him not want to get a read on the person. They don't seem like related things).

I kinda like gheb too for no real reason except for he seems to be just slinging his **** around the thread with no worry about how ppl are perceiving him. Which seems a lil too confident to do as scum, but idk maybe y'all haven't been lynching gheb enough in recent mafia games and he getting cocky

Soup n ryu are also on my radar. But I'm only supporting a Ryker lynch toDay. Also i guess mavens on the radar as well cuz I dislike the Zen push. I don't really remember much of what hes said tbh.

Zen thoughts on Ryker's and your early Day interaction?
Ryker why are you voting ruy and not one of the three from your lynch pool? why is bardull a town lean to you?

Man this post was only supposed to be like 2 lines long. Also this nightly back up **** almost completely ****ed me

Red:

Dropped later when Zen comes forward to further clarify what I've been saying from the start that it isn't new. This is a nonpoint, but highlighting the bolded, it is, in his opinion, the strongest point.

Blue:

Good questions, thanks for that at least.

In general that's weak. There are people who still haven't given strong stances. There were even more that weren't giving strong stances prior to page three or four where my first reads list was posted. Can you please highlight why the way Bardull's wagon went down means my giving a reads list is gross.

Green:

I almost popped when I saw you do the exact same thing you complain about me doing in the blue section, but you later admit that it isn't inherently scummy, so........

Purple:

This is what kills me. Your biggest point gets eliminated. You have seen me post a reads list twice now. You have a much better idea of where I'm at than most of the game. No, I don't have the most substantial reads at this point. You just got done talking about how connections are murky and half the game has said their reads are shaky. Why in God's name am I the only thing you're considering STILL!?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

also wtf is this in general. ppl on smashboards still get super emotional when they get pushed apparently? honestly ryker you're too good at this game to be so easily frustrated by someone pushing your slot and it doesn't read genuine.

Do you go into every post I make looking for something to stack on my head? I am annoyed that I am on the table for lack of content from multiple slots despite the fact that lack of content is the story of this game and I am far from the worst offender. Respond to my above post.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

[QUOTE="Vult Redux, post: 21458949, member: 168004"
Mac, I was frustrated when I wrote that and I worded it poorly. I didn't mean for it to sound as antagonistic as it does and I'm sorry. I'm going to reread you again but my first impression was that some of your points on Ryker were such a reach that it was intentional/scum-driven[/QUOTE]
I wasn't antagonized I just literally didn't understand how you could come to that conclusion about my slot and how it doesn't apply to other players' slots way more.

I'm still curious about what you consider the "good reads" to be in this game.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ebwop

Mac, I was frustrated when I wrote that and I worded it poorly. I didn't mean for it to sound as antagonistic as it does and I'm sorry. I'm going to reread you again but my first impression was that some of your points on Ryker were such a reach that it was intentional/scum-driven

I wasn't antagonized I just literally didn't understand how you could come to that conclusion about my slot and how it doesn't apply to other players' slots way more.

I'm still curious about what you consider the "good reads" to be in this game.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

#200 and #222 are where i go into the bulk of my reasoning

I want a bullet-point list. Succinct and plain rather than depending on players to go back and read the game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Did you read the case?

No I voted when I woke up and didn't read it, will since I am on lunch break now.

 

[Xivii]

Zen we already went through all of that...

I know I've been absent, I coast a lot on Day 1. Whenever I've attempted to drive early game discussion I always just end up confusing people and almost getting lynched. I've been popping up so much for Gheb because I feel I actually have insight into it, it's worth talking about and Gheb seems to be pushed Day 1 in every game. He's antagonistic and doesn't expand on his reads (most of the time), this makes him good mislynch material. I chose to defend Gheb because it seemed clear to me what he was saying, I still think it's clear. He didn't see why Bardull was put to L-1 but since he was he'd rather the guy die and we'd have a flip because all the bantering going on was pointless. I don't see how that is a contradiction at all or how you seem to have so much trouble understanding it. Everything else is you assigning motives based on feelings and nothing else. Don't play like J.

The "lie" for Zen I'm pretty sure was just grammar mistake. Zen used parenthesis incorrectly and put the subject of his sentence in them, then didn't use a comma. What apparently was meant to say "he even said #121, haha" said "he even said (#121) haha", which does not mean the same thing at all. I read his post correctly he just wrote it poorly. Even though I'm suspicious of Xivii I think he is telling the truth because I don't see why he would attempt to lie about it. I mentioned confusion over this in previous posts.

To see Xivii peace out for so long, only to come back when he's brought up as a lynch candidate, only to push Gheb again is troubling. For him to claim I was spouting nonsense even though he chose to drop half of his arguments after I had responded is troubling. Xivii has mentioned us having a history, to be honest if we do I'm not aware of it. I didn't even realize Xivii was Zen until this game, so I've never been keeping any sort of meta on him. If this is normal for him, I'm not aware of it.

I'm keeping my vote. Second choice would be Ryker.

What does J have to do with this??? Anyways, you're clearing Gheb off of Meta. Poor meta that can be easily faked. Sure you can use it as a starting point, but you ought to read his actions independently of his play style.

Ha I totally get what you mean by the grammar thing now! It's not a parentheses issue. It's the fact that I omitted the word "so" or "that" after the word "said". I could have made it even more clear by putting a comma before "haha". My apologies.

I'll address your last paragraph in my response to Vult below.

Zen I follow your case and I get it. I saw you talk about Gheb's flip-flopping earlier this game during my reread last night. I think your case has merit.

but you're avoiding my question (unless i missed it, in which case sorry) and i think it's important

I got off Gheb because I was taking you and Maven's view into consideration. Maven pushing me / defending Gheb on something that was so overtly wrong, made me think that he wasn't doing it because he believed what he was saying, but rather because he knew Gheb was town. This is why both my read on Gheb and Maven changed to 50% so abruptly. I thought there was a chance that they were Mason partners and Gheb's earlier scum play was a result of him trying to play suspicious enough to avoid being the night kill.

I thought Maven was trying to hint at this, so I stopped. After he continued to push me, showing that he really was serious about his argument, I realized this wasn't the case. I waited to pursue the Gheb avenue again for multiple reasons.

1. I wanted to get other interactions, pushes, and content out of the day.
2. I wanted to be as objective as possible, look at other avenues, and be fair to Gheb by not tunneling.
3. I wanted to make sure we were in a position where scum could not counter-strike. I think there's two other potential candidates for Gheb's scum mate. I wanted to make sure we had their reads made clear before making the push.

 

[Maven89]

if i recall correctly i had a mild dislike toward gheb at the time which is probably why I named him over someone else but what I meant by "I wanted to see how Gheb defends his buddy Bardull! lol!" was another way of saying "I wanted to see how people react to Bardull at L-1"

that's what I think, yes. I was open about it too. I literally said what I interpreted it as! I'm not making up now what I thought. xD See:

Then can you explain all of these posts?

but i won't unvote because I am excited to see how much harder scum!gheb denounces the wagon on his buddy (:

^^ "his buddy" referring to scum!Bardull, I mean

not sure how i feel about recent posts; I'm not a fan of gheb #97 but I can't say it makes me hate him. ironically it actually does make him look more likely like a partner for Bardull.

i liked Bardull more after rereading fwiw. His progressive toward voting Ryker seems more natural than my first impression. Like I mentioned previously there was a key part of one of his posts that I missed and my scumread on him sort of hinged on that.

I got a better understanding of Soup's interactions but no read on him. Dislike Gheb. Like Zen. Ryker looks like catchup mode but his catchup mode seems slightly more town/productive than a scum catchup mode. Nothing on specific on Maven though it looks like we disagree and i guess that's not a good sign.

unvote; vote: gheb

aaah i forgot about my points in #86. /: He still hasn't responded to them. Annoying. why do you disagree with it?

uuuuuh so that Bardull's scumbuddy (GHEB) would come to his rescue and we could figure them out and win the game? (i'm an optimist)

uuuh but I think I made that clear earlier so maybe i don't understand what you're asking here

It looks like a big contradiction but I reconciled it in one of my earlier posts (#127). Did you read it? Basically I think you were faking when you said you wanted him hammered.

Supporting this is the fact that you used words like irrelevant and ridiculous to describe the discourse prior to your #97. Even though in retrospect my points were weak they still were decent and worth considering. Discrediting then makes it less likely that eg Ryker would come in, consider the points raised, and hammer.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

How long until Deadline?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

This post does not add up to enough to have me be the only thing on your radar.



Red:

Dropped later when Zen comes forward to further clarify what I've been saying from the start that it isn't new. This is a nonpoint, but highlighting the bolded, it is, in his opinion, the strongest point.

sure I've given this point less weight in my head because both Gheb and Zen have disagreed and they prolly know your meta better than I. but I still think it's a good point and I will say it still is impacting my read on you. But it's only one facet amongst multiple reasons why i think you're scum

Blue:

Good questions, thanks for that at least.

In general that's weak. There are people who still haven't given strong stances. There were even more that weren't giving strong stances prior to page three or four where my first reads list was posted. Can you please highlight why the way Bardull's wagon went down means my giving a reads list is gross.

i go into more detail on this in the other post i linked #222.

Green:

I almost popped when I saw you do the exact same thing you complain about me doing in the blue section, but you later admit that it isn't inherently scummy, so........

I also cover this in #222

Purple:

This is what kills me. Your biggest point gets eliminated. You have seen me post a reads list twice now. You have a much better idea of where I'm at than most of the game. No, I don't have the most substantial reads at this point. You just got done talking about how connections are murky and half the game has said their reads are shaky. Why in God's name am I the only thing you're considering STILL!?

my biggest point is not eliminated, I did like that you've posted your read list but it still hasn't swayed my slot. It's easy to start posting better when you get pressured.

but you are right I should pay some more attention to those 3 other slots you mentioned... funny that they also happen to be the 3 people that I also said I was keeping my eye on. (fwiw everyone, my reads on those slots pretty much dissipated pretty soon after that post. not because i think they're town but because I wasn't paying too much attention to them)

I will make a concerted effort to take a look at those slots as I finally finished responding to everything in this thread. I still think you're scum though.

what is your personal lynch pool btw?

 

[Vult Redux]

Then can you explain all of these posts?

they support that i mildly disliked gheb. they don't conflict with "I wanted to see how Gheb defends his buddy Bardull! lol!" = "I wanted to see how people react to Bardull at L-1".

i'm really not trying to be nasty/sarcastic toward you. I think you're just seeing things differently and I'm trying to get you to understand my perspective. Look at my #371. There's a paper trail of my saying what I thought Gheb meant

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Starting to think Gheb wagon has more merit from Zen's case and Gheb's complete lack of trying to address anyone reasonably over hand-waving everything away. I think I would support that if push comes to shove.

I don't like Mac's case on Ryker nor the tunnel vision he has on the slot right now. Mac isn't really expanding much from that given all of the recent posts.

Manly my issue with Ryker has been his lack of interest until spurts of it come up and go. What is making me realize something is the fact I really shouldn't be supporting a Ryker wagon off that when Soup/Maven should go before his slot on that account.

Ryker's colored response and his post back to Mac about calling everything he does scummy is on point right now.

Xivii Is Vult still trustworthy? Is Bardull still numero uno for next to die after Gheb?

 

[Vult Redux]

I got off Gheb because I was taking you and Maven's view into consideration. Maven pushing me / defending Gheb on something that was so overtly wrong, made me think that he wasn't doing it because he believed what he was saying, but rather because he knew Gheb was town. This is why both my read on Gheb and Maven changed to 50% so abruptly. I thought there was a chance that they were Mason partners and Gheb's earlier scum play was a result of him trying to play suspicious enough to avoid being the night kill.

I thought Maven was trying to hint at this, so I stopped. After he continued to push me, showing that he really was serious about his argument, I realized this wasn't the case. I waited to pursue the Gheb avenue again for multiple reasons.

1. I wanted to get other interactions, pushes, and content out of the day.
2. I wanted to be as objective as possible, look at other avenues, and be fair to Gheb by not tunneling.
3. I wanted to make sure we were in a position where scum could not counter-strike. I think there's two other potential candidates for Gheb's scum mate. I wanted to make sure we had their reads made clear before making the push.

Thank you.

This looks genuine and I think you're town.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

what is your personal lynch pool btw?

I posted it above. Ruy, Soup, and Maven with you being the one I needed to speak to more. I am willing to look at Gheb because it seems like the game is shaping up into him or me and I like Zen, Vult, and Bardull.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

they support that i mildly disliked gheb. they don't conflict with "I wanted to see how Gheb defends his buddy Bardull! lol!" = "I wanted to see how people react to Bardull at L-1".

i'm really not trying to be nasty/sarcastic toward you. I think you're just seeing things differently and I'm trying to get you to understand my perspective. Look at my #371. There's a paper trail of my saying what I thought Gheb meant

Do you think Gheb is worth lynching right now?

What do you make of Ryker vs Mac right now?

 

[Maven89]

Xivii I feel like you're really reaching over slight variations in tone. I don't think there's nearly enough to support your conclusion, it requires a giant leap without much evidence or clear gain, and the simpler answer by far is what Gheb has actually said. It's completely in line with how he plays most games. I'm not saying this is a pro-town reason for him, while I've liked his content I don't even read him that strongly as town. I just find this line of attack on him to be off on it's basic facts and continued long past the point of reason. This makes me assume it's malicious. To be honest I'm not even pushing you that hard, I was thinking of unvoting you until it started back up again, and right now I don't see anyone scummier, and with deadline I still see you as the best choice.

Vult I want updates from

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Do you go into every post I make looking for something to stack on my head? I am annoyed that I am on the table for lack of content from multiple slots despite the fact that lack of content is the story of this game and I am far from the worst offender. Respond to my above post.

um... im pretty sure this is the first time I took a new post you made and expressed that I felt it looked scummy. Can you point out other places where i've done this... (besides the post i'm writing now because I do think it's hella odd you said this)

I want a bullet-point list. Succinct and plain rather than depending on players to go back and read the game.

i don't want to and it shouldn't be an excuse for you to not consider what I put in my #222

but:

• weird rvs interaction with zen
• your questions that appear to be contributing but don't really show an intent to find scum
• unsubstantiated reads on bardull/soup at a time where it seemed convenient to have those reads
• general lack of scumhunting and stances

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I don't like Mac's case on Ryker nor the tunnel vision he has on the slot right now. Mac isn't really expanding much from that given all of the recent posts.

Ryker's colored response and his post back to Mac about calling everything he does scummy is on point right now.[/QUOTE]


red ruy, now can you also answer what others posts have Ryker made that I immediately thought was scummy

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Essentially, Ruy, Soup, Maven, Bardull and you all have one big thing they've done this game.

Soup has argued with Bardull.

Bardull has disliked me. He has recently come in to give more reads. I don't have a problem with him.

Ruy made one push on Gheb and basically coasted until RIGHT NOW.

Maven has argued semantics and defended Gheb since he showed up.



Yes, this is hyperbole. They've all done a little more than that, but it isn't much. Fact check me.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ebwop


I wasn't antagonized I just literally didn't understand how you could come to that conclusion about my slot and how it doesn't apply to other players' slots way more.

I'm still curious about what you consider the "good reads" to be in this game.

vult, i actually do want an answer to this if you don't mind

 

[Vult Redux]

Do you think Gheb is worth lynching right now?

Yes. At this point the only doubt I have is whether Gheb being shifty on his reasons toward the Bardull wagon ---> Gheb scum or not.

What do you make of Ryker vs Mac right now?

Ryker's responses in red and green are the exact same things I said about Mac's case!

it's taken a while for ryker to address it which is meh but we're on the same page

 

[Maven89]

they support that i mildly disliked gheb. they don't conflict with "I wanted to see how Gheb defends his buddy Bardull! lol!" = "I wanted to see how people react to Bardull at L-1".

You called him scum multiple times, gave him a partner, then voted him. That's a little more then expressing a mild dislike. You called him scum partners with Bardull for the third time, Gheb quotes only that part of the post and responds showing how he's not Bardull's partner. Your response is to assume he meant he was forcing people to respond to Bardull being at L-1? Even though he's never said that?

Why was your post entirely defensive about how you were reading it? My original point was that you were not remembering the exchange right because you were pushing him as Bardull's scum partner, and this was what Gheb was responding to. Instead you only argued that you weren't making it up on the spot

Re-reading now

 

[Vult Redux]

vult, i actually do want an answer to this if you don't mind

i knooow I saw it; it's just it's really hard to keep up and I don't fully understand what you're asking.

I think Zen's read on Gheb is good? His reasons are detailed and I agree with him. idk. I thought Maven's read on you earlier was also good; matched what I was thinking

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Essentially, Ruy, Soup, Maven, Bardull and you all have one big thing they've done this game.

Soup has argued with Bardull.

Bardull has disliked me. He has recently come in to give more reads. I don't have a problem with him.

Ruy made one push on Gheb and basically coasted until RIGHT NOW.

Maven has argued semantics and defended Gheb since he showed up.



Yes, this is hyperbole. They've all done a little more than that, but it isn't much. Fact check me.

hm so they all at least made concrete pushes

out of curiosity, how would you describe what you've done this game?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

um... im pretty sure this is the first time I took a new post you made and expressed that I felt it looked scummy. Can you point out other places where i've done this... (besides the post i'm writing now because I do think it's hella odd you said this)



i don't want to and it shouldn't be an excuse for you to not consider what I put in my #222

but:

• weird rvs interaction with zen
• your questions that appear to be contributing but don't really show an intent to find scum
• unsubstantiated reads on bardull/soup at a time where it seemed convenient to have those reads
• general lack of scumhunting and stances

I've read your #222. It's everyone else I care about. I don't want airy "my points against Ryker" in their heads. I want a list I can address.

As for the start, I was legitimately asking. You showed up and asked me something when you made that first case. I want to know if you're just digging for more to lynch me and I should be talking to other slots.



Your points:

1.) Absolute bull****. You want to lynch me over that, then you're dumb. Go look at the beginning of Vult's game which was played just before this one. I did the exact same thing. This has been my strategy to deal with the fact that Zen was a massive **** and unable to pin down on any reads and charismatic enough to get away with it.

2.) Ok. First, mind reading is a super power you don't have. Any question I ask, I ask for a reason. I may or may not get back the answer I'm looking for and I'll abandon it. Sometimes I'll ask a question just to prod someone into posting to see if they'll say something of value.

3.) I don't understand why it's bad to have reads that are convenient when you yourself say that they're the reads you had at the same juncture. Do you have anything I said prior to that to make you think they were not genuine or is this just because if I were scum it would be convenient not to have the wrong reads?

4.) Once again, absolute bull****. I have given an accurate picture of where I am at throughout this game. I have never dodged a request for a stance. I have come forward at multiple points when I felt no one was asking for those reads and left a mark of where I was at during that time. You can talk to me ABOUT my stances, but you cannot say I don't have them.


For clarity's sake, I'll do it again.

Zen - Town
Vult - Town
Bardull - Probably Town
Maven - Null leaning scum.
Soup - Null
Ruy - Null.
Gheb - Null leaning scum at this point. I dislike the way that he has said multiple times that basically everything Zen and I have said cannot be used to ascertain our alignment. This is the only read that has significantly changed.
Mac - Scummy, but I could very easily be mistaken. I cannot understand at all why I have historically been the only thing on his plate or why he thinks the initial exchange with Zen is scummy after further clarification.

 

[Vult Redux]

Gheb quotes only that part of the post and responds showing how he's not Bardull's partner.

"Which is why I specifically asked people to hammer him?" I interpreted as "Well duh, I asked people to hammer him so that [a scumbuddy] would come to his rescue! See, Vult, we had the same agenda all along you silly goose!"

"Which is why I specifically asked people to hammer him?" you interpreted as "Oh sure Vult, of course I'm scum with Bardull because I would totally ask the town to hammer my scumbuddy. /sarcasm"

Do I have that right?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

hm so they all at least made concrete pushes

out of curiosity, how would you describe what you've done this game?

I'd say all I've done is be transparent. I have not had strong scum reads. I have simply been here when people wanted me and kept people updated on what I've thought of the events of the game. I have not been a mover or a shaker.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I ask again, when is deadline?

Vote Gheb