Flavorless Mafia II: Gave over. Who won?

[~ Gheb ~]

Unvote Vote Red Ryu

Bardull's not a play toDay. Not sure why anybody'd put him at L-1.

 

[Maven89]

Is that the only reason you're not voting him?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

... what?

 

[Maven89]

Is that the only reason you unvoted Bard?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He's not the play toDay. What more reasoning do you want to hear?

 

[Maven89]

Any other reasoning you might have had for voting him, and did that other reason change? Or was there never any other reason?

 

[Vult Redux]

You think so?

I don't know if I could go that far if a person knows how stubborn Gheb can be at times.

i mean i've played with gheb and I didn't think of it. maybe I'm inflating its value because of that. idk when I rereead that post though it still came off as really town to me.

Vult how are you seeing that Bardull/Gheb suddenly makes sense because of his #97? That's not the impression I got at all.

my impression: he was whining about the conditions of the wagon to make it less appealing while saying he's for it to get Distancing™ points. Helps when you know there's no risk of the lynch getting pushed through.

i'm scared to ask.... what was your impression of that post?

Zen - Disliked that he put Bardull at L-1, but do like that he backed off

this is the thing I most dislike about Zen. Voting him was good! To get reactions and reads. Unvoting was bad because not enough people got to react to it. He unvoted waaaaay too quickly

 

[Vult Redux]

Bardull's not a play toDay. Not sure why anybody'd put him at L-1.

did you not say you were willing to drop the hammer on him. :V :V :V :V :V

 

[Vult Redux]

And then there is this. Gheb's post is pretty clear to me, he can't read what's going on and wants a flip to help him. Really selfish, sure, but that's Gheb's play most of the time. What I have trouble seeing is why Scum!Gheb or any scum player would openly post that if they were scum. I also have trouble believing Xivii really thinks this is scumGheb, especially not to 85% certainty that he gave him in the following post.

.... you genuinely think gheb actually even remotely slightly at all a little bit wanted Burdull lynched??? :V

So right now I'm voting Xivii because I hate his recent content. I'm interested in seeing what Vult has to say on this.

wrt to the "I hadn't read soup/Bardull" part of Zen's post that you quoted, I would and have said the nearly the same things. maybe Zen and I are the same person.

I don't think it changes anything that it was an L-1 vote. The only part of his recent content that I dislike was his unvote... he said he started reading Bardull as town... which is eeeeeh. I still think it would have been more productive to leave the vote there. also I didn't agree with his interpretation of Gheb's post but I didn't find it scummy either

 

[Vult Redux]

i liked Bardull more after rereading fwiw. His progressive toward voting Ryker seems more natural than my first impression. Like I mentioned previously there was a key part of one of his posts that I missed and my scumread on him sort of hinged on that.

I got a better understanding of Soup's interactions but no read on him. Dislike Gheb. Like Zen. Ryker looks like catchup mode but his catchup mode seems slightly more town/productive than a scum catchup mode. Nothing on specific on Maven though it looks like we disagree and i guess that's not a good sign.

unvote; vote: gheb

 

[ranmaru]

@Mars™ has been prodded.

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 1.5

Red Ryu: Gheb
Mars™
Gheb: Red Ryu, Xivii, Vult Redux
Ryker: Bardull
Maven: Ryker
Bardull:
Xivii: Maven
Soup:
Vult Redux

Not voting:
soup, Mars™

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 1 is September 21, at 11:59 PM.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Any other reasoning you might have had for voting him, and did that other reason change? Or was there never any other reason?

There was never a reason. If you read back, I think it's on p.1 even, you'll see that my vote was pretty much as random as RVS allows for.

did you not say you were willing to drop the hammer on him. :V :V :V :V :V

Nope :3

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Before you go, is this still the case?

It was at the time. Would've **** Mars into Gheb into Soup.

Reading again now though. On phone.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And nothing major there.

I should be more active in general now that the weekend is over. I spent it learning a 9.5 hour RPG speed run and completing one run at gucking 15:25:06. I intend to try again on Tuesday and Thursday, but odds are good I don't get a run going and can stay active.

When's deadline?

Would Lynch Mars atm.

Vote Ruy

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I mean Mars' slot has done literally nothing? Obviously won't oppose a lynch at this rate.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Wait let me correct myself, I just reread Ryu's post where he responded to Gheb and I don't think he's being serious after all. I imagine that makes me look stupid but I did just wake up.

Gheb stuff wasn't serious.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I haven't come into this game with any prejudice, I'm just telling you what I think of your play. I don't understand what content means in your example, because I told what I got out of your content. I don't think that your reasoning makes sense in a lot of things and that in itself is due to how I feel about you. If you wanted me to break it down further then I would say that your Ryker vote in particular is striking because you seemed to have made some kind of conclusion towards him by laughing at Zen's antics. That conclusion wasn't exactly strong in my eyes either, and I don't get why him laughing is somehow indicative of him being scum. I'm aware of your points, but all you said in your #28 that it wasn't natural? How? You never really explained such and then the next post you mention Ryker you bludgeon him by quoting an indirect statement by Zen.

I think you have for a few players but despite that I do think he answered both you and Zen just fine.

If anything you seem to be very nit picky on his RVS play.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I like what Vult has been posting despite my disagreements with it.

Vult has had the most convincing of the arguments against Bardull even if at the end of the day I still disagree with it.

#86 in particular was pretty good.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

all i can think about is if i were scum!Mars I would hammer town!Bardull and then pretend to be a noob to mafia, taking advantage of no one knowing my meta <___<

but i won't unvote because I am excited to see how much harder scum!gheb denounces the wagon on his buddy (:

Why leave it at L-1?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unvote

I hadn't actually read Bardull's / soup earlier when I made that vote. I like him. I think soup is a scummer still.

...

Then why the Bardull vote?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I feel stupid and contagious for it but I can't draw anything from the exchanges between soup, Bardull and Zen. It's like a giant, messy circle-jerk of nit-picking irrelevant points in hopes of getting something started but nobody dares to actually put out their neck over a point. Like, you guys should read your own posts froman outsider's position, it's completely ridiculous. Vult honestly isn't helping much either.

My contribution? At this point I honestly just hope that either #HBC | Ryker or Maven89 show up and drop a quick hammah on Bardull. That'd be like 10x more helpful than all this pointless brabbling.

#HBC | Ryker Why did you like this post? If anything that back and forth actually adds something.

This post from Gheb is very counter productive to town and the second part asking for a quick hammer is gross.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Zen, you're not good at this.

Do something useful, like reads questions etc.

You are starting to fall into the joke I said earlier actually more to a T now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unvote Vote Red Ryu

Bardull's not a play toDay. Not sure why anybody'd put him at L-1.

Then why with the asking to hammer him and end the day comment?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Staying on Gheb, he's not giving anything of substance and has been actively been working against town's best interest with cutting off discussions and not giving any alternative discussion to be more productive outside of joke comments.

Ryker gives the vibes of not really being super invested, but not super telling. I don't get why he has been super buddy buddy with Gheb and liking his posts as much as he has.

Vult is by far my strongest town read, active and well reasoned even when I disagree with the direction. Definitely seems to be actively trying to make heads or tails of what is going on without BS.

Bardull is trying to get something done and I get way better vibes from him after his and Soup's back and forth seems like he has clear drive in his posts.

Soup is being super nit picky and antagonistic but I feel like he does legitimately have his own thoughts on this. I'm not sold on a scum vibe here but in general it seems like either personal or actually is scum motivated with his back and forth with Bardull. I am leaning more on the personal than scum but in general have an eye on him.

Xivii in general very scattered around in thoughts while also pushing a direction I do agree with and like, exception but Bardull earlier with the vote but the backing off with later thoughts gives me a better feel of the slot.

Maven, I need to read in more detail later.

Mars, would lynch if down to deadline just for inactive slot.

Lynch order: Gheb>Mars>Ryker>Soup/Maven

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If anything that back and forth actually adds something.

I don't think it does. Feel free to prove me wrong though.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't think it does. Feel free to prove me wrong though.

Bardull's reactions gives me insight on how he is forming opinions and stances. This is what lead me to like his slot.

Zen has been pushing directions whole showing he is thinking about the interactions between the two.

Soup has been nit picky but at least is giving something to look at.

Vult is honestly the only person to give something solid to Bardull scum.

That's what I got out of it.

 

[Vult Redux]

I like what Vult has been posting despite my disagreements with it.

Vult has had the most convincing of the arguments against Bardull even if at the end of the day I still disagree with it.

#86 in particular was pretty good.

aaah i forgot about my points in #86. /: He still hasn't responded to them. Annoying. why do you disagree with it?

Why leave it at L-1?

uuuuuh so that Bardull's scumbuddy (GHEB) would come to his rescue and we could figure them out and win the game? (i'm an optimist)

uuuh but I think I made that clear earlier so maybe i don't understand what you're asking here

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

aaah i forgot about my points in #86. /: He still hasn't responded to them. Annoying. why do you disagree with it?

uuuuuh so that Bardull's scumbuddy (GHEB) would come to his rescue and we could figure them out and win the game? (i'm an optimist)

uuuh but I think I made that clear earlier so maybe i don't understand what you're asking here

I thought he was being overall defensive to you but in context, it made sense to why he responded to you like he did. I can see where he is coming from in his post that you quoted in your #86. I disagree with Bardull as well but I see a lot of it as a larger misunderstanding between you two with me more so siding with you in terms of the conflict.

I think he overreacted and was misreading your play/actions, but not in a scummy way given the pressure he was on at the time.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

uuuuuh so that Bardull's scumbuddy (GHEB) would come to his rescue [...]

Which is why I specifically asked people to hammer him?

So on the one hand I'm scum because I asked people the drop the hammer.
But I'm also his scumbuddy because I supposedly came to his "rescue"?

So which one is it?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

#HBC | Ryker Why did you like this post? If anything that back and forth actually adds something.

This post from Gheb is very counter productive to town and the second part asking for a quick hammer is gross.

The very first line. At that point I was annoyed at the fact that nothing meaty was happening.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's what I got out of it.

Most of these conclusions - while I don't deny that they're likely accurate - aren't very strong and they fit each player's respective meta enough to make me think that one could've drawn them one way or another in a pretty much any given scenario. Soup often starts off nit-picking in the early game phase hoping to get something going. Oftentimes he gets lynched for it and he also got a bit of suspicion for it this time around. That's pretty null to me. Zen pushing directions also isn't new but I wanna take the opportunity to say that this is not necessarily a good thing. Not that I wanna discourage him but he has a tendency to be wrong on these things and, as in soup'd case, I don't think that's enough to give him pro-town credit for it.

The only somewhat conclusive info I think we got from the whole thing is that Bardull is likely town but that's mostly based on the fact that most of the accusations brought up against him have not been very strong at all.

Given how dominant their menage a trois has been I wanna say that it has been largely a waste of time. Most of the reads I get of from it are null with Bardull leaning null-town. I still think just hammering Bardull would've been worth the risk though apparently I'm the only one who thinks so [and supposedly I tried to "rescue" him and am his scmmbuddy nor or something].

...

I will give you credit though for your summary. I feel that post alone has more useful content in it than most of the posts we've had so far [which admittedly include mine].

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Unvote Vote Mars

I think this is what we should be doing. We have two days until deadline and I don't think lynching any of the more active players will do us any good. Early inactivity/laziness by Maven, Ryu, Ryker [somewhat] and myself has slowed down progress of this game but now that people are making input we're getting somewhere. If we get rid of a slot who literally hasn't done anything we'll be in decent shape toMorrow.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The very first line. At that point I was annoyed at the fact that nothing meaty was happening.

You totally had the chance to hammer Bardull though! Now that would've been meaty.

 

[Xivii]

*Request Macplacement of Mars*

 

[ranmaru]

Replacing Mars.

 

[Vult Redux]

Which is why I specifically asked people to hammer him?

So on the one hand I'm scum because I asked people the drop the hammer.
But I'm also his scumbuddy because I supposedly came to his "rescue"?

So which one is it?

It looks like a big contradiction but I reconciled it in one of my earlier posts (#127). Did you read it? Basically I think you were faking when you said you wanted him hammered.

Supporting this is the fact that you used words like irrelevant and ridiculous to describe the discourse prior to your #97. Even though in retrospect my points were weak they still were decent and worth considering. Discrediting then makes it less likely that eg Ryker would come in, consider the points raised, and hammer.

 

[Vult Redux]

[and supposedly I tried to "rescue" him and am his scmmbuddy nor or something].

okay i was being a little facetious with "rescued" but still

 

[Xivii]

Gheb - 80%
Bardull - 60%

Mars - ?
soup - 50%

Ryker - 40%
Maven - 30%
Ryu - 20%
Vult - 15 %

 

[Vult Redux]

Which is why I specifically asked people to hammer him?

this..... omg

why didn't i see this <___<