Flavorless Mafia II: Gave over. Who won?

[#HBC | Ryker]

Midnight sometime. I'm not going to be there probably. If you want to talk to me, do so now. I may or may not be back at all before end of day.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Well, this was hoppin a few minutes ago, and now it's dead again. I'ma give it like 5 more minutes before I go back to streaming.

 

[Vult Redux]

I'm willing to lynch Gheb but I worried all of our bickering is going to let scum!Soup slip into D2

 

[Vult Redux]

Essentially, Ruy, Soup, Maven, Bardull and you all have one big thing they've done this game.

Soup has argued with Bardull.

not to be irrelevant but this made me laugh.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ranmaru request vote count

~ Gheb ~ looks like you gonna get lynched

@Xiivi thoughts on recent occurrences? specifically Me, Ryker, Ruy and Maven

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm out. I'll try and check in if I lose a run.

 

[Vult Redux]

between Ryu, Zen, me, Ryker, we have 4 votes for Gheb. I'm sure there's at least one other willing to lynch him.

Not Maven I guess.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

honestly such a terribad lynch

but w/e

 

[Vult Redux]

honestly such a terribad lynch

you're actually the only one whom I think put up a reason why it might not be a good idea and it makes me feel less confident.

are you willing to lynch Soup?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't want to vote Gheb.

 

[Vult Redux]

re: my above post

I'm referring to this

idk i can't imagine Gheb actually feeling pressured enough by the posts regarding him that it'd push him to act inconsistently in the way you're describing. when I read these posts I got the sense that was acting this way just cuz he didn't care about how he was being perceived and was just posting what immediately came to mind

maybe worth considering idk

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'd lynch Ruy or Maven, I think I alluded to this already but I can clearly say it again if you want. I don't really have a readslist (I never do) and it's more about who I think are good lynches and who I think are bad lynches.

I don't want to lynch Zen, Gheb, Mac, or Vult. Everyone else I would be okay with.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

you're actually the only one whom I think put up a reason why it might not be a good idea and it makes me feel less confident.

are you willing to lynch Soup?

potentially, soup and ruy are the others i'm looking at in my reread

tho i feel like i won't move off Ryker this dayphase

 

[#HBC | Mac]

and by this dayphase i mean until he's dead

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

The problem I am facing right now is that you have people trying to grab the center of attention, and in this case, Zen is the one at the center. I try to not think about things in a manner where my reads are constantly shifting to the room just because somoene is big and obnoxious about it, even if I townread the person. I think the reasoning in my head towards Gheb at this very point in time is a lot more sensible than Zen, who tends to have behavioral and read-induced mood swings from time to time. Gheb has been sensible and for the most part logical throughout the whole day and It'd be a waste to just lynch him over semantics, which is what I feel right now. I am not the holy gheb derfender in this case, I just believe there is bigger fish to fry.

Ruy's content is acceptable but it is at the expense of him not really getting his hands dirty, spending more time making observation to what's going around instead of getting involved. Maybe this makes me a hypocrite as that is my approach right now, but I still don't understand why this is suddenly town from everyone. My meager observations on Ruy have equated to me feeling like he has nothing interesting to say, or particularly thoughtful. It doesn't take much brainpower to look at something and tell people how you feel, nor is it necessarily indicative of town. A mafia textbook defintion would be coasting and I also just really feel like Ruy would find something more to stick to but instead has been overall passive.

Maven I have problem with for somewhat of the same reason, only that his opinions remain stagnant and I don't see them progressing. It's almost funny in how they are polar opposites where Ruy is spending his time intaking every single detail going on and Maven is centering himself on one singular person and detail, only mostly posting about it. I don't believe the two are scum together but everyone else in my eyes is a lot better than both, even if it is again strange how their approaches are inherently different. My open question to Maven and to people is why Maven is not looking at other people that Zen has talked to or interacted with, which is basically almost everyone. He instead is making the same guttural mistake of trying to call people out on contradictions or fallacy logic or whatever it is that seems like a hot topic instead of something that sticks. The same goes for anyone who has really done that because I think that it all boils down to a matter of interpretation, and even then, the discrepancies being pointed out aren't all too damning in my eyes.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

#HBC | Red Ryu I asked you a Q about where else I immediately marked a ryker post as scummy

feel free to respond with "I can't think of any and I may have just been sheeping an idea that sounded good"

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

also wtf is this in general. ppl on smashboards still get super emotional when they get pushed apparently? honestly ryker you're too good at this game to be so easily frustrated by someone pushing your slot and it doesn't read genuine.

This in particular stood out to me as you tunneling him.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ruy's content is acceptable but it is at the expense of him not really getting his hands dirty, spending more time making observation to what's going around instead of getting involved. Maybe this makes me a hypocrite as that is my approach right now, but I still don't understand why this is suddenly town from everyone. My meager observations on Ruy have equated to me feeling like he has nothing interesting to say, or particularly thoughtful. It doesn't take much brainpower to look at something and tell people how you feel, nor is it necessarily indicative of town. A mafia textbook defintion would be coasting and I also just really feel like Ruy would find something more to stick to but instead has been overall passive.

I don't disagree with me being passive, I have been this day phase.

Something I do want to fix later on but in general can't do this day phase until later tonight.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

This in particular stood out to me as you tunneling him.

uh yea I said that's the first post I made that was like that:

um... im pretty sure this is the first time I took a new post you made and expressed that I felt it looked scummy. Can you point out other places where i've done this... (besides the post i'm writing now because I do think it's hella odd you said this)

having one post does not a trend make

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

uh yea I said that's the first post I made that was like that:



having one post does not a trend make

In general you have been super fixated on the slot and I don't see you really expanding on anyone else.

That post in particular really highlighted it for me on where me thinking you have been tunneling him has come from along with page after page of it.

Where as I only really recall interactions with Vult and maybe a bit with Xiivi where I see you expanding more off this.

I don't like it, but I also know you did this to me in Death Note mafia where you tunneled me for 2 day phases. I see where Ryker as town can find this obnoxious.

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 1.9

Red Ryu:
Macman: Vult Redux
Gheb: Xivii, Ryker
Ryker: Macman
Maven: Red Ryu
Bardull
Xivii: Maven, Bardull
Soup:
Vult Redux

Not voting:
soup, Gheb

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 9 players, it takes 5 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 1 is September 22, at 11:59 PM.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

#HBC | Red Ryu so what's your read on my currently

 

[Xivii]

Xivii Is Vult still trustworthy? Is Bardull still numero uno for next to die after Gheb?

So I did a lot of rereading of Vult, Gheb, Bardull, Mac, and yourself last night and games we've most recently been in together. My town read of Vult has been based of off strong feelings from the tone of his early posts. On a reread, I realize it should not be as strong as it is. However, as it currently stands, I still have more points for him as town than I have against it. If it came down to it, I would definitely reconsider, but right now I feel pretty solidly that we wont reach that point.

My Bardull read is really shaky. To be honest, Ruy, I just can't read him. I'm willing refer to my town reads' view of him for now. I don't believe you, Vult, Mac, or Ryker have a problem with him.

--

Mac your Ryker and Gheb read are no good. From the Ryker back and forth, Ryker came out on top and it made me like him even more. You're not being objective at this point.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It's like you guys never learn.

Like, at this point freaking Maven who has done very little otherwise had absolutely no trouble seeing my stances as uncontradictory as they are. Simple logic, no big arguments needed. Just looking at things the way there.

And yet you guys are allowing Zen who has been completely ridiculous and impossible to take serious all game to lead a lynch on me because ____ ?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Let's do a quick breakdown of this wagon:

- Zen: Has shifted stances on people like nobody's business, 100% untrustworthy, has done NOTHING to deserve any pro-town credit.
- Ryker: Pretends to have a scumread on soup which has been of exactly 0 consequence so far, has taken very convenient stances all game, been only pushing easy stuff whenever it seemed opportune to him. When he's called out for not doing stuff he's just pointing fingers at soup, Maven and Ryu which is clearly below his town standards. All that is happening under the pretext that he doesn't want to get involved too much in D1.
- Vult: Has avoided taking any major stances on people, only commented on things from the sidelines without actually getting involved in anything himself. His play overall has been pretty opportunistic for and largely for his own personal benefit rather than town's.
- Ryu: Has been flip-flopping pretty hard on me, went from reading me as scum via mob mentality to listening to my reasons back to following mob mentality and voting me. Did very little all Day, and if it was it has largely been inconsequential, for the most part he's been playing to his scum meta.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Votecount 1.9

Red Ryu:
Macman: Vult Redux
Gheb: Xivii, Ryker
Ryker: Macman
Maven: Red Ryu
Bardull
Xivii: Maven, Bardull
Soup:
Vult Redux

Not voting:
soup, Gheb

Vult's, Zen's and Ryker's votes are bad / disgusting.

Ryu's seems like a cop-out and opting for a compromise which is not unacceptable but does nothing to improve his position in this game, which is that he's expendable.

Maven's, Bardull's and Macman's votes are decent and based on reasoning I'm willing to accept even if I may not end up agreeing with all of them [won't be able to read them in detail toDay either].

My reads remain mostly unchanged. Macman and Bardull are town in my book, soup can be good if he starts doing more scumhunting, Ryker's reads are excuses and he can die, Zen is detrimental and non-townie and can therefore die, Vult is playing it much too safe for me to call him anything but null and Ryu is a decent compromise lynch for sure. Maven has done more than people give him credit for, will only vote if no other option is available.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vote Red Ryu

#HBC | Ryker #HBC | Mac @Maven89 @Soup BarDulL

Let's lynch him. This is the best we can get toDay I think.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

#HBC | ѕoup

 

[Xivii]

An excellent move. The only viable one I'd say. Good stuff.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm willing to lynch Gheb but I worried all of our bickering is going to let scum!Soup slip into D2

You had plenty of time to prevent "scum!soup" from "slipping into D2", you know.

What kept you from doing it?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

yea so i'm actually a tiny bit more ok with Ruy after my reread. I've been fluctuating a lot in how i felt about the slot, i'm not sure he should be the play.

I'm ok with soup

#HBC | Red Ryu can you rank your top 3 scumreads from scummiest to least scummy (but still scum)?

@Maven89 why is Ryker your second choice scum pick?

after rereading I'm still not sure why people are generally OK with ryker. Even after rereading I'm still not seeing any concrete actions taken by that slot. He's being noncommittal and his reads are just activity based and not strong. You can tell his reads are pretty weak especially now with his rando ass hop on Gheb's wagon despite having 4 other people in his lynch pool. (I was hoping someone would point out since if I say it ppl think I'm tunneling)

Zen thoughts about a Maven lynch? I feel like there's generally been a decent amount of support for getting rid of Maven and I can get behind that.

 

[BarDulL]

Wow, a lot happened since yesterday.

Well, regardless, let's start putting out votes. Deadline is in 8-11 hours depending on what time zone Ran is in.

I know I'm probably crazy for my reads. Even I look at myself and say "how does this make any sense," but that's what I'm coming to. Here are my thought processes:

Soup is the hardest one for me to read, so he's in my "I can compromise to him if need be but I'm reluctant to put a nail in his chest" pool. I just think it's weird that he openly admits to trying to goad me and push my slot, but says it's not personal. I doubt he would do this to other slots. If it wasn't personal, then maybe it was scum goggling, maybe not. He's played a fairly passive role in this day phase in the grand scheme of things, and I don't necessarily agree with his direction, which is why I'd be willing to compromise to him.

Zen is just flip flopping all over the place and it's hard for me to trust the slot's ingenuity. Like, I could've sworn he was going for Soup, then myself/Maven, and now he's going for Gheb. Granted, the behavior is erratic and it's questionable if scum would do this. But there's also the vote that put me at L-1, which he claims that he was not paying attention to vote count or conversations at the time. A part of me really thinks that it was an opportunity for ScumZen to get some HBC-esque quick lynch going on my ass. I also feel like the timing of his unvote was off and that he got cold feet for some reason. If he was trying to get a read on me or see reactions, the unvote was too soon, which makes me suspect his reasoning this day phase. It does seem like he is actively scum hunting otherwise though.

My biggest qualm with Gheb was that he was willing to allow my lynch to happen, and it came pretty close. The 180 and subsequent turn away from my slot was also questionable. I generally agree with Gheb's view points of other slots though, which is why I'm reluctant to jump on his wagon and call it a day.

I feel like Maven is very much on point and hasn't given me a real reason not to trust his slot except that perhaps he isn't trying to progress discussion in the thread often. He says he isn't very actively involved in D1 in response to this allegation. I'm not sure what to make of it. I don't think the slot has made any big mistakes yet.

Red Ryu seems pretty active, I worry a little about his tone but not so much his content except perhaps recently. He is probably Town. I'm not super confident about this.

I felt Ryker's initial RVS was a little uncharacteristic. Mac raises a point later on about how Ryker might be overreacting to pressure in his direction; this is reminiscent of when Ryker confronted me about how I felt regarding his slot early on. Ryker has been a bit in and out, which may or may not have to do with him trying to get another* job. I'm also a little reluctant to off this slot. His response to Mac was fine though. I can't be sure.

Vult, I've already explained. I would be cool with seeing him go, but a lot of slots are reading him as Town for some reason, so maybe I'm missing something. He recently exclaimed that I was crazy and that I was wrong to imply that he was interested in my lynch despite having a town read on me, but he literally said he was fine seeing me go, then defends himself and says he isn't actively seeking my lynch(?). I don't really get it.

I mostly felt Mac was Town when his thought process aligned exactly with mine regarding Ryker's slot, and it's also something I feel most would be a little reluctant to do. I don't really have many qualms with his approach.

 

[Xivii]

Ran is east coast.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

yea so i'm actually a tiny bit more ok with Ruy after my reread. I've been fluctuating a lot in how i felt about the slot, i'm not sure he should be the play.

I'm ok with soup

#HBC | Red Ryu can you rank your top 3 scumreads from scummiest to least scummy (but still scum)?

@Maven89 why is Ryker your second choice scum pick?

after rereading I'm still not sure why people are generally OK with ryker. Even after rereading I'm still not seeing any concrete actions taken by that slot. He's being noncommittal and his reads are just activity based and not strong. You can tell his reads are pretty weak especially now with his rando *** hop on Gheb's wagon despite having 4 other people in his lynch pool. (I was hoping someone would point out since if I say it ppl think I'm tunneling)

Zen thoughts about a Maven lynch? I feel like there's generally been a decent amount of support for getting rid of Maven and I can get behind that.

Not random at all. Game is shaping up into me or Gheb unless there is Ruy support.

 

[BarDulL]

I'd be willing to bumrush Soup if you guys would be down.

People don't seem to want to gut Zen/Vult, so my compromise options are open.

 

[ranmaru]

Deadline is Tonight at 11:59PM EST.

 

[Xivii]

Zen thoughts about a Maven lynch? I feel like there's generally been a decent amount of support for getting rid of Maven and I can get behind that.

Decent fall back lynch. I don't think a town Maven flip brings us forward any though.

 

[Xivii]

"Which is why I specifically asked people to hammer him?" I interpreted as "Well duh, I asked people to hammer him so that [a scumbuddy] would come to his rescue! See, Vult, we had the same agenda all along you silly goose!"

I honestly didn't understand your pov on this until this post. I really don't see how interpreted that from that line. For real though what is your deal with soup. Why is he scum now to you all the sudden? You've not analyzed his posts one bit. What is your current take on Ryu. Is he still scum to you? Would you lynch him over Gheb?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

What will a Ruy flip get us?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

What will a Ruy flip get us?

Eliminates my only inhibitions about a Gheb Lynch.

The possibility of Ruy scum is a point in Gheb town's favor. They're not mates given Ruy's attachment to the Gheb wagon.

Typing with one finger on phone in cut scenes is hard