Flavorless Mafia: Game Over. Who won?

[Inglorious Retards]

I think I am beginning to see a possible Honk+Ri**** scum-team, thoughts?

Too early to make such a call for me. Though Ridic can definitely die. Anything with PJB in it can.

 

[Orboknown]

Semi v/la till this weekend.
Just caught up. I'll be talking to pjb and stayin current but between school and detail work I don't have much more than an hour to give this a day till I get data for my phone saturday.

 

[Gargaglione]

Alright, I reread Honk, and for the past couple pages, I noticed that pretty much all of Honk's content is an attempt to get JS and Gheb off his back. He's only focusing on directing his content to people who don't like him in attempt to make himself look better or either turn it around on them, specifically with JS, who in my opinion is not scummy.

and overall notable reads at this moment are:
I think both July and Gheb are towny
I don't like frozenmarsh's play, it's not only aggressive, but sidelining
Butt Wolf or whatever and Ryu are absent and therefore null
Kary's weird but null, I don't know how to read his ****
JS is null-town
Gorf is null to me too
and J has gotten a lot of negative attention because of the buddying up of JS, which I agree is odd, but a lot of people claim that to be a way he plays, so I'm gonna wait to formulate more on him.

Vote: Honk
I'm sorry, Honk. At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of soup's meta, but your play has become OMGUS and self-preservative and I don't like your slot for that.

I think Honk's a good lynch for D1

 

[Gargaglione]

Oh and I forgot,

I don't like Ridickulous. He not only has little content, but it's convenient.

And Nich is on my good side right now

 

[ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ♪]

Alright, I reread Honk, and for the past couple pages, I noticed that pretty much all of Honk's content is an attempt to get JS and Gheb off his back. He's only focusing on directing his content to people who don't like him in attempt to make himself look better or either turn it around on them, specifically with JS, who in my opinion is not scummy.

Bolded: Yes, that is what I'm trying to do, because people expect me to answer their claims and once again, I'm not just going to go belly up and be okay with my death. You're looking at this like I have a choice in the matter, would you say, if you were put in a position where people were incorrectly reading and damning you for reasons that are untrue, that you wouldn't defend yourself?

I'm awestruck at this thread right now.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

It's like I don't know how to play mafia

 

[Gargaglione]

Bolded: Yes, that is what I'm trying to do, because people expect me to answer their claims and once again, I'm not just going to go belly up and be okay with my death. You're looking at this like I have a choice in the matter, would you say, if you were put in a position where people were incorrectly reading and damning you for reasons that are untrue, that you wouldn't defend yourself?

I'm awestruck at this thread right now.

You're being aggressive in the way you defend yourself and even trying to give bad attention to Jakestan because he doesn't like your slot.
You recently haven't done much else besides that.

Of course, you're going to defend yourself under this circumstance, it's just how anxious you are to turn things around and how you lost focus on everything else.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

And yes I have decided on you, your posts have really really really helped me make that decision so I appreciate it

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Aren't you the one who literally said a few pages ago that you have so many null reads and not enough town reads? Why, then, do you feel the urge to reach that conclusion on jakestan? I was (still am) actually interested in seeing what you had to say about yours and Joeys opinion on the thread, but your drive to be a presence is going to be the thing that kills you, soup. If you're town, STOP POSTING FOR NOW. If you're scum carry on and insist that I'm wrong n **** though

 

[rid****ulous]

I think im gonna reread Honk. Everyone seems to agree that the slot is scummy.
I'll be back with content and stuff.
I personally am finding Honk's hate on jakestan pretty OMGUS though, because JS has been nothing more/less than null right now.

Alright, I reread Honk, and for the past couple pages, I noticed that pretty much all of Honk's content is an attempt to get JS and Gheb off his back. He's only focusing on directing his content to people who don't like him in attempt to make himself look better or either turn it around on them, specifically with JS, who in my opinion is not scummy.

and overall notable reads at this moment are:
I think both July and Gheb are towny
I don't like frozenmarsh's play, it's not only aggressive, but sidelining
Butt Wolf or whatever and Ryu are absent and therefore null
Kary's weird but null, I don't know how to read his ****
JS is null-town
Gorf is null to me too
and J has gotten a lot of negative attention because of the buddying up of JS, which I agree is odd, but a lot of people claim that to be a way he plays, so I'm gonna wait to formulate more on him.

Vote: Honk
I'm sorry, Honk. At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of soup's meta, but your play has become OMGUS and self-preservative and I don't like your slot for that.

I think Honk's a good lynch for D1

These posts stink. A bunch of people start dogpiling on Honk, then you do a convenient "reread", and now you're on board? Then this list of bull**** reads. You're faking content mad hard.

 

[Gargaglione]

If you're town, STOP POSTING FOR NOW. If you're scum carry on and insist that I'm wrong n **** though

What the **** do you think you'll accomplish with telling him to do this?

 

[ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ♪]

You're being aggressive in the way you defend yourself and even trying to give bad attention to Jakestan because he doesn't like your slot.
You recently haven't done much else besides that.

Of course, you're going to defend yourself under this circumstance, it's just how anxious you are to turn things around and how you lost focus on everything else.

If you looked recently, I mentioned earlier that we, as a hydra, not just SOUP, are presently null on a lot of things, and not sure where our scum-reads were going. I recently jumped at Jakestan because I felt strongly about it, and something I wanted to pursue, and something I think town should look in interest with. I'm not anxious, I'm trying to get people to understand that they have the wrong idea. I do not want to get mislynched, yet again. I want people to town-read me, I want to help town as much I can, and that's all I've been trying to do. I've been trying to put my thoughts out, tell people who I feel about certain issues, and I've been trying to work with people. I got confrontational with Gheb because I wanted to get something out of it instead of just accepting his 'case' on me, as it leads to fruitful discussion.

Oddly enough, I always feel like the catalyst in games, always the center of attention, or always someone who sparks the whole game for everyone else. I'm always the main topic of discussion because my actions are abrasive, and I tend to get in people's faces.

That's something that works for me, I don't feel like I get much out of keeping quiet, or being passive. I like to get into the game, I like to butt heads with people, as I feel it helps me, personally.

There was a lot of times where I felt like I didn't have to post, but I felt inclined to because I didn't want to leave anything unnoticed, I didn't want to leave something unanswered.

You can take my explanation as you want, but nothing really changes for me. I know I'm town, and I'll do what I feel like I have to do.

 

[rid****ulous]

Oh also

Unvote

I've still got my eye on J, but I've been reassured that he's not all bad news right now.

 

[Gargaglione]

These posts stink. A bunch of people start dogpiling on Honk, then you do a convenient "reread", and now you're on board? Then this list of bull**** reads. You're faking content mad hard.

Not faking content, I've been in and out of class and been playing almost exclusively on my phone. I haven't really had the time to read on everything in-depth.

I stated that my bad read on Honk is due to the last couple of pages, which occurred substantially later than when I had a null read on him, and that the bad read is because he's being incredibly OMGUS towards Jakestan, and won't stop bickering with Gheb.

I can change my reads, things progress.

 

[rid****ulous]

What the **** do you think you'll accomplish with telling him to do this?

He's trying to get soup to chill the **** out, even though we all know it's just going to rile him up more.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

What the **** do you think you'll accomplish with telling him to do this?

If he's town he'll calm down and maybe do something that won't make him a viable D1 lynch. But if he continues his trend I'm sure he's going to stay on the path he's on. It's like if I were to try to tell JTB not to post like a bumbling idiot in Tranquility, sometimes townies just need to know they're actually being ********.

Like the last couple paragraphs in his post after this one of yours. If he's town HE NEEDS TO STOP THINKING LIKE THAT

 

[#HBC | J]

I think someone said my strongest town-read was JS, but that is incorrect. Gorf is my strongest town-read as a head's up.

 

[ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ♪]

Then lynch me. The only thing I'm held liable as town is to get my thoughts out there and push things that could help us find scum. I'm not going to feel guilty about this anymore, maybe you'll just mislynch me enough where I'll finally get a meta such as Nabe.

 

[rid****ulous]

Not faking content, I've been in and out of class and been playing almost exclusively on my phone. I haven't really had the time to read on everything in-depth.

I stated that my bad read on Honk is due to the last couple of pages, which occurred substantially later than when I had a null read on him, and that the bad read is because he's being incredibly OMGUS towards Jakestan, and won't stop bickering with Gheb.

I can change my reads, things progress.

If you're not faking content, then why did you post a readlist with almost all null reads?

If he's town he'll calm down and maybe do something that won't make him a viable D1 lynch.

You and I both know, that's more than likely not true.

 

[Gargaglione]

If you're not faking content, then why did you post a readlist with almost all null reads?

Well, I feel that people need to know where I'm standing in the game, since I haven't been providing much, and my list definitely expresses sentiments other than just "errbody's null".
Saying people are null isn't an empty claim, it gives implications.

For example, I wanted to note that Ryu and BW are nulls because inactivity =/= scummy. I wanted to note that J isn't a good lynch yet because I don't think the buddy thing is immediately scummy. I don't know what to think of Kary's play but it's odd and definitely worth looking into. And lastly, Gorf is genuinely just null to me right now.

 

[rid****ulous]

For example, I wanted to note that Ryu and BW are nulls because inactivity =/= scummy.

Ryu has plenty of posts for you to look at. And yet

I don't like Ri****ulous. He not only has little content, but it's convenient.

I had what, 3 posts? I suppose the fact that other people have expressed dislike of me had nothing to do with this comment? Tell me, what do you mean when you say "it's convenient"?

All your reads are like this. Bull****, vague as hell comments, but no real explanations. That's not content, I don't know why you think any of the things you said you think. Your dislike of both frozenmarsh, and myself, have exactly as much explanation as your null reads.

 

[rid****ulous]

And people need to stop characterizing my initial dislike of J as me thinking "buddying it scummy". That's not it at all, I already explained this. It was because he townread a player who did not deserve a townread.

He still doesn't deserve a townread, by the way.

 

[rid****ulous]

@ Gargaglione
The only read you stated that wasn't already popular opinion, was your dislike of frozenmarsh

Can you go into detail about that for me?

 

[Gargaglione]

Ryu has plenty of posts for you to look at. And yet

I had what, 3 posts? I suppose the fact that other people have expressed dislike of me had nothing to do with this comment? Tell me, what do you mean when you say "it's convenient"?

All your reads are like this. Bull****, vague as hell comments, but no real explanations. That's not content, I don't know why you think any of the things you said you think. Your dislike of both frozenmarsh, and myself, have exactly as much explanation as your null reads.

Concise =/= vague. I'm expressing what I'm thinking, there's not much ambiguity to that.

Ryu's posts are almost all in the beginning of the game and referring to RVS ****. He hasn't expressed any recent thoughts and he's been inactive for like the last half of the game.

You, on the other hand are more recent and very aggressive, and you chose something really easy to be aggressive about, as it's something others have explicitly stated extensively.
And no, other people's disliking of you wasn't my main reason as to posting that I don't like your play . I just went back and saw only about three posts from you strongly saying that J is scummy with a parrot explanation as to why, and nothing else.

My dislike of frozenmarsh isn't vague either. He would just jump in and confidently say "We need to lynch so and so." or "this person is definitely scum" and then ran back to nothingness, and I don't like that. It's anxious finger-pointing to me, until he comes around with more to say about it.

 

[rid****ulous]

Concise? Come on man, "convenient" is not "concise", it's vague. It doesn't mean anything, it only means anything to you because the thoughts are already in your head. You need to explain that kind of ****, a single word does not a summary make.

And who am I parroting? I was alone on the J wagon, and I've explained why. The only other person who was still on J was July, and she posted after I did. Does the fact that I unvoted change your read?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm reading up, sorry a lot of school **** got thrown at me.

 

[Gargaglione]

Concise? Come on man, "convenient" is not "concise", it's vague. It doesn't mean anything, it only means anything to you because the thoughts are already in your head. You need to explain that kind of ****, a single word does not a summary make.

And who am I parroting? I was alone on the J wagon, and I've explained why. The only other person who was still on J was July, and she posted after I did. Does the fact that I unvoted change your read?

I have genuinely just been concise and fairly clear with my sentiments.
you definitely weren't alone on the J wagon, several others had expressed discomfort towards J's actions. July and Nich are the only ones who went into extensive detail on it though (and they're the ones I assumed you were parroting).

I still don't like your slot, but I like that you're starting to be more active.

 

[rid****ulous]

Gargaglione's play still stinks, to me. All he's doing is riding the honk wagon, and not pressuring his other scum reads. If he doesn't like the way frozenmarsh is playing, why isn't he pressuring him?

He literally posted that ****ty little readslist, and declared Honk the best lynch for today. Really? We're ready to end D1 just like that? This is not the play of a townie, it's the play of a mafioso who wants to look like he's contributing, and wait for the day to be over. Hell, most of his reads are just popular opinion, which is a ****load of nulls. Then his one unique, non-null read? Getting on marshy's case for playing like marshy. Hell, not even "getting on his case", cuz he didn't direct anything to frozenmarsh. He just states a couple dislikes, doesn't address them, and waits for Honk to die.

Vote: Gargaglione

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ok, time to dive right into this.

Let's play a game. It's called "Whose the better killer?"

Right now I'm on the side of things where I think J's hardcore Jakestown read is off. As has been mentioned by several other people, I read that and thought "Ok so he's writing a book on 'How to be a good townie', why is J so impressed by this?" Feels like J is buddying up to a new town player. Don't like it.

Vote: J

I don't like his read at all nor the timing of it either.

What do you think of Jake then?

 

[Gargaglione]

Gargaglione's play still stinks, to me. All he's doing is riding the honk wagon, and not pressuring his other scum reads. If he doesn't like the way frozenmarsh is playing, why isn't he pressuring him?

He literally posted that ****ty little readslist, and declared Honk the best lynch for today. Really? We're ready to end D1 just like that? This is not the play of a townie, it's the play of a mafioso who wants to look like he's contributing, and wait for the day to be over. Hell, most of his reads are just popular opinion, which is a ****load of nulls. Then his one unique, non-null read? Getting on marshy's case for playing like marshy. Hell, not even "getting on his case", cuz he didn't direct anything to frozenmarsh. He just states a couple dislikes, doesn't address them, and waits for Honk to die.

Vote: Gargaglione

Aight man.
I already explained to you why my readlist isn't ****ty.
I formulated those reads on my own.

As for you, I literally know nothing about where you stand. Your entire play at this very moment is "I don't hate J so much now and now I really dont like Gargaglione (the only player who has really called me out so far)".

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

July's #190 is really good.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Leaning town on him as well.

Why?

What has he done that is worth this?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

july and pb+j have asserted that js ****ty townread of jake is off. i commend them on reaching this conclusion. however why are you guys scumreading j for this and ignoring jake? pb+j even just said that its off then votes j for...buddying a new town player? dafuq didnt you just say that townreading jake is wrong? and part of julys reason is cuz js buddying. this implies a belief of jake being innocent without being explicitly stated. what do you guys think of jake? PLEASE dont tell me yall are joining the townread people for no reason club

im tryna wrap my head around js treatment of jakestan due to that being a large contributor behind the recent hate of the slot and am personally unable to get much out of it. j has a habit of townreading people for absolutely no reason regardless of alignment so im left underwhelmed by this new direction and confused as to why is jakestan is bein ignored in all of this

jakestan goes in circles with post 43. karebear asserts that youre (generally speaking) likelier to mislynch someone you havent played with before than one you have. jake then says not really and...says the exact same thing and proceeds to **** on karebear?

there is dissonance in the above observations that should be addressed

I know your waiting for FF but can you throw a vote out anyways?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@ #HBC | Red Ryu I don't understand. How do you expect him to go into any type of detail regarding Badwolf if you're asking for his scum mates based on a "scum slip"? Also, if you were wanting to know about his thoughts on Badwolf, why didn't you press it further outside of asking for scum mates?

Also, how does you trusting Gheb more than me help you develop anything regarding this game? From your wording, it really looks like you're using this fact to simply get me off your back, which is strange to say the least. Also, both heads have posted multiple times this game and share a mutual opinion on you.

1) I was expecting to see what he would do if he would try to connect players and if so where that would lead.

2) He told me to **** myself and shut up.

3) It helps me figure out Gheb and how he approaches a situation.

4) I dunno where you think this.

5) Shame, but I still wanna 1v1 with Joey.

~

Look at I get where you are coming from and you are somewhat legitimate here in how my questions went and where they have led. I get it and I think you have a point that is very legitimate against me. The problem is you have to consider where I was doing this and coming from. I was trying to get the game moving and to get something to happen one way or another to get reads going.

Are some questions, even ones I value, might not get much of anything? Yes you are right here but again I'm trying to mask myself here in a veil of pointlessness I was trying to get the game moving.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

And my mom wants me to take her out to her birthday Dinner an hour earlier so...I'll get back to this when I get back from the restaurant.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Why?

What has he done that is worth this?

None of your business.

 

[rid****ulous]

Aight man.
I already explained to you why my readlist isn't ****ty.
I formulated those reads on my own.

As for you, I literally know nothing about where you stand. Your entire play at this very moment is "I don't hate J so much now and now I really dont like Gargaglione (the only player who has really called me out so far)".

Nah man, it is ****ty. All your stances are safe as ****. Every single one of your reads is something somebody else said before you, you elaborate about nothing, and add nothing. All you've done is piggyback on other people's pushes.

Only player who has called me out so far? You didn't call out anything! I had to ask you what "convenient" meant. You also only jumped on me after J suggested I might be scum with Honk, and Gheb followed up by saying I should die. It's just another example of you only taking stances that you already know other people will agree with. Everything about your play is safe.

 

[rid****ulous]

I have to bounce for the rest of today.

I'd like to hear what people think about Gargaglione after reading my post.

Also posting here to remind myself to respond to Ryu, and I guess Kary asked me something awhile back that I need to dig up.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Alright, time to get down to business.

First things first, I've been looking at Honk and the wagon surrounding him, and if there was any doubt, it's completely gone now. I'm certain that Honk is town.

The wagon has just gone far too fast with far too little resistance. Were some of Soup's early posts a little odd? Maybe. Could you call Soup's case on jakestan OMGUS? Yeah, perhaps. Has Soup been responding emotionally to the pressure? Unquestionably. However, there's one important question nobody's asking, and that's Why does this make him scum?

The fact of the matter is, while Soup's play hasn't been great, absolutely nothing I've seen from him has reeked of scum intent. Let's go over the various points against him, shall we?

Let's start with his "OMGUS" against Jakestan. Has anyone stopped to consider that the case is actually legitimate? Yes, it's based around Jakestan attacking Soup… but what else has Jakestan done? His vote has been on Honk since RVS, he's barely done much of anything not relating to Honk, and he doesn't even have any original reasoning for said vote! First it was there for RVS, then he literally said "I'm going to keep this vote on for pressure, because pressure is good and helps give reads", and THEN he gave us this little gem:

caught up on the thread will post soon

I like Gheb's vote on Honk #235 ; even worse (for honk) is #241. It bleeds out scum to me. from experience players who belittle their opponent in response to claims that they are scum are generally scum or terribly bad at the game. lots of ad-hominem and over-aggressive play feels very scummy and I feel there is a significant chance the slot is scum.

Which is literally "I agree with Gheb and Soup's being emotional". Every time he's posted, he's been using a lot of words without saying anything new, and I completely agree with Soup calling him out on it. Yes, it's OMGUS, but there's such a thing as voting for someone in a scummy manner, and I think Soup's justified here.



The next complaint against Soup is that he's been emotional and aggressive against Gheb (and others) pressure. Let me ask a simple question.

Who wouldn't be?

Gheb has been after Soup since page 3. Gorf has also been after him for a while. They've both been insulting and generally provoking him, and with other people jumping on his case lately, who wouldn't be frustrated? Yeah, Soup's clearly angry, but townies get irritated too. Pressure can get to anyone, whether town, or scum. In mafia, the questions to ask are "Why would a townie react this way", and "Why would scum react this way?" If there's good answers to both of them, then it's not a tell.



The other main thing used against Soup is Gheb's case, which I'll admit is more solid than the other current reasons for voting him. However, while I do agree that the posts Gheb pointed out were odd, I'm not convinced that there's obvious scum intent there. I can see it being reason for keeping an eye on Soup, but there's also the possibility of it being nothing more than awkward word choice.



Finally, the main thing that's convinced me that Honk is town is that the wagon on him came together far too easily. The case on him wasn't some thing of beauty, but rather a few instances of awkward word choice, and then Soup reacting poorly to pressure. However, despite this, it suddenly seems like a large portion of the game is up for lynching Honk, and nobody's really vocally protesting against it. A lot of support has quickly gathered for reasoning that really isn't all that solid, and I'd be shocked if scum wasn't somewhere on that wagon.

I'll analyze the wagon itself shortly, but for now I'm going to just go ahead and post this. I'm hoping to get said analysis done either tonight or tomorrow, but we'll see.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Garg's play reminds me a bit of Gorf's in the sense that it's pretty worthless / irrelevant for the town's progress. I can see why people would have issue with that kind of play but I don't think I can comfortably wrangle a read on Garg out of it [or on Ridic based on his read on Garg].