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Five Things Every Lucas Should Know

Dxt XXII

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Well, the Lucas forums doesn't see much action and we need to fix that. So I did this:

1. Spacing

Lucas has a very good defensive game, which can rack up damage and then go in for the kill. For spacing there are two attacks you should prioritize: F-Tilt and Pk Fire. If you approach or go for a combo, such as a Nair approach, it's generally a good idea to finish with F-Tilt. This does damage and has enough knockback to let you retreat back safely. It can also be done out of a shield and to keep opponents away if they try to approach.

Pk fire gives you multiple options. It's best done short hopping. If you short hop you can DI forward while Pk Firing to keep people at a comfortable distance. If they approach, you can wavebounce backwards to make it way harder on your opponent's part. You can wavebounce by B-Sticking, or waveland by jumping backwards and PK Firing forwards (though B sticking is better if you don't mind giving up the option of smashing with the c-stick). PKT and Psi magnet are very situational here, but it's best to be ready for anything.


2. Approaching

Approaching can be a problem, but here Lucas also has many options. You can approach with Fair, but you would have to be very carefull as you can be sheild grabbed or jabbed. If you try a dash attack, most likely you will get punished. And please just forget about dashing and U-Smash. It can be so easily dodged and punished that you would be way better off just standing back (unless you get extremely lucky and they DI into your attack).

Nair approch can be very usefull, as it can lead into multiple combos. Just be carefull not to land right in front of the other person; either DI backwards or forwards after the first hit connects. Fast falled full hopped dair can knock the opponent into the ground and again, you should not land directly in front of them. A PK Fire or a grab approch, mostly the latter, will not work due to their predictability and the grab's lag.


3. Recovering

Most people underestimate Lucas' recovery. PK Thunder can be angled in a variety of ways, and is hard to predict. Zap jumping (second jump and PK Fire at the same time) is usefull, and can be used to recover from way off the screen or even from under the stage. Tether recovery can be used to prevent being spiked when you are close to the edge. If you are not close enough to tether, you should air dodge while jumping, which travels the same distance as his second jump but with invincibility frames, which allows you to recover safely.
If you are way off to the sides, you can pull out Psi Magnet to move you towards the stage a bit. Most importantly, be unpredictable.


4. Edge Guarding

Lucas is an awesome edge guarder, and don't let anyone tell you other wise. Pk Thunder can be used to chase opponents offstage. But this can get predictable, so instead aim where they are going to be or circle them. You can thunderslide off the stage by using Pkt while running. This can rack up damage, edgehog, or even KO if you are lucky. Since you have the rope snake, you can slide off and tether to edgehog. You can fight off stage with the odd Fair or U-Air, but it's better to go for the bair spike.


5. KOing

Theres not much to say here. Down throw kills at over 150%, and Back throw at around 130-140% near the edge. Fair kills near the edge at very high percentages.

And his smashes: D-smash is more defensive, mostly to stop people who roll alot, but can KO easily at about 120% from anywhere. F-Smash is probably Lucas' best KO move. It's fast, has good range, and kills at about 100%. U-Smash abuse will get you killed instead. It is very situational, since it has a ton of lag. You can pretty much KO with anything, but they are not even worth talking about (for example, PK fire kills at way over 200%).

It is always best to set up your smashes, such as with the dair->dtilt->fsmash combo.



So there you are. And here are another 5 things every Lucas should know:

1. Dair spike is extremely weak.
2. The stick is probably your best KO option.
3. U-Smash abuse will be punished.
4. You really should not play aggressively against MK.
5. Lucas' jab is on of the fastest attacks in the game, as is comes out on frame 2.

Edit: This is kinda outdated, as I made it before Tyr made his guide
 

pianodude700

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Keimoney approves.

One thing
Why wouldn't you mention that Lucas' jab is one of the fastest of them all?
The hitbox comes on frame 2.
That is INVALUABLE for approaching out of nair, countering out of shield, and just racking up damage.

As far as I'm concerned, jab and f-tilt are interchangable.
If you need extreme speed, go with jab.
If you need more range, go with f-tilt.

In some cases, those few frames make all the difference.

edit: you beat me to the post this time levitas lol
 

DemonicTrilogy

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That's for me to know
I'm trying to think of combos for Lucas using his jab so that it can help Lucas players in their playing styles... It's just has so much potential... Does anyone have any other ones that they know of?
 

Veril

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Jumping backwards and PK firing forwards is wavelanding, not wavebouncing. That's pretty minor...

Wave-Zapping (or whatever: zapjump + magnet pull) really deserves a mention. Lucas covers an absurd distance with this technique. I'm going to start a thread for it as I feel wavezap has not received enough attention.

There are more things Lucas Players should know, but you've covered the basics of using lucas' moveset. Great thread!
 

pianodude700

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Jumping backwards and PK firing forwards is wavelanding, not wavebouncing. That's pretty minor...

Wave-Zapping (or whatever: zapjump + magnet pull) really deserves a mention. Lucas covers an absurd distance with this technique. I'm going to start a thread for it as I feel wavezap has not received enough attention.

There are more things Lucas Players should know, but you've covered the basics of using lucas' moveset. Great thread!
The reason for this is that many players do not want to sacrifice their c-stick for a b-stick
And wavezap's usefulness is drastically cut/nonexistant without the b-stick
There's just too much room for error.
 

Veril

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The reason for this is that many players do not want to sacrifice their c-stick for a b-stick
And wavezap's usefulness is drastically cut/nonexistant without the b-stick
There's just too much room for error.
I know about the c-stick smashes vs. b-stick. It really isn't an easy switch (though at this point I greatly prefer b-sticking). If the player is b-sticking however, wavezap is very useful. I feel it is important to be aware of this technique but can understand why wavezap might be left out of this guide.
 

Dxt XXII

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Actually, the bigger concern here is cstick aerials vs bsticking.

Smashes are easy to do with A.
Actually, for me it's both. I can fair, bair, and nair without c stick, but I'm not that good at dair and uair. And when someone is open right in front of me, my first instinct is to smash the c-stick forwards.

I did want to put jab and jab cancel, but I didn't know how to fit it into one of the categories I used. Btw when I SH backwards and PK Fire forwards, I still call it wavebouncing as it pushes you back the same distance.

Oh and wavezapping can be usefull, but it's really not necessary as Lucas can recover from pretty much anywhere anyways (and it's not as usefull without bsticking).
 

Tyr_03

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Good thread. I personally would've said more about PK Fire. The closer to the ground you use PK Fire the less lag you have on the end. Standing PK Fires aren't useless either because it comes out faster than if you short hop first. Every once in a while catches someone offguard who you might not have gotten otherwise. For the most part SH first is better for spacing though since you can follow up immediately with jabs to stop people trying to approach you during the lag. Works ridiculously well against Dedede's trying to get in for a chaingrab.

I find it a whole lot easier to fast fall my full hop Dairs if I'm using the c-stick. And since it's such a good approach (and Lucas has so few) I don't want to chance sacrificing it for wavebouncing which I find less useful. Just my personal opinion on the subject after trying both since whenever they figured b-sticking out.
 

Veril

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Yes Levitas, I was incorrect. Aerials are more of a sticking point. However, smashes are easier with the c-stick (I use the d-smash much more rarely now)... olimar...

Wavezapping is absurdly quick, is near impossible to gimp as far as I know, can move in unpredictable patterns, lag canceled, and does not leave lucas helpless. It is just better as a recovery than PKT2 as it can be followed by PKT2. Regardless, this is nothing new, and I'm not going to argue the point any more here (not the right thread).

I did want to put jab and jab cancel, but I didn't know how to fit it into one of the categories I used. Btw when I SH backwards and PK Fire forwards, I still call it wavebouncing as it pushes you back the same distance.
Every Lucas player with opposable thumbs and a big green button on their controller must know about how great the jab is by now. I don't think you need to put it in.

Wavebouncing covers more distance than wavelanding. I mean, again, this is a pretty minor thing, and I don't want to seem naggy about it. They aren't the same thing though. If they were, nobody would b-stick.
 

lil cj

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This a very good thread:)
For edge guarding u could have also put PK Freeze
its not as good as PK Thunder edge guarding but if it hits your opponent at the right time it leaves them helpless and they fall to their deaths....which is always funny to watch...lol
 

eskimo bob

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This a very good thread:)
For edge guarding u could have also put PK Freeze
its not as good as PK Thunder edge guarding but if it hits your opponent at the right time it leaves them helpless and they falll to their deaths....which is always funny to watch...lol
yes, but unfortunately it's about as reliable as George Bush.

well... maybe just a little more. they have to be at a certain height or it mostly wont work, but when it does it's very satisfying. :D
 

DemonicTrilogy

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I know. T_T
If only they made PK freeze have Din's fire's range... Then it would be easy to play off edge mind games with it T_T
I can just imagine it now if that were the case. Opponent is coming back onto stage, PK freeze is after them. They don't know if it is going to explode early or late while still hitting.
 

Tyr_03

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I usually just use PK Freeze to force an airdodge and then punish. Depends on their height of course.
 

prOAPC

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every Lucas player should know:
1. How far goes PKT2
2. How much time does the PKT last (for mindgames)
3. When to use PKT2 or ropesnake. Know how to aim PKT2.
4. When to use PKT or to go for the bair spike
5. Jab Lock!!! (Lucas combos)
 

Dxt XXII

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I just use Pk freeze every once in a while for mindgames lol. ^^ Like Tyr said, not much lag so it can be done.
 

pianodude700

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Actually, the bigger concern here is cstick aerials vs bsticking.

Smashes are easy to do with A.
Yes Levitas, I was incorrect. Aerials are more of a sticking point. However, smashes are easier with the c-stick (I use the d-smash much more rarely now)... olimar...

Wavezapping is absurdly quick, is near impossible to gimp as far as I know, can move in unpredictable patterns, lag canceled, and does not leave lucas helpless. It is just better as a recovery than PKT2 as it can be followed by PKT2. Regardless, this is nothing new, and I'm not going to argue the point any more here (not the right thread).

Even though wavezapping is an insane recovery, I still think the zap jumping leaves too little room for error and I personally don't like changing my controls. The unpredictability of it is extremely fun though :)

Every Lucas player with opposable thumbs and a big green button on their controller must know about how great the jab is by now. I don't think you need to put it in.

Wavebouncing covers more distance than wavelanding. I mean, again, this is a pretty minor thing, and I don't want to seem naggy about it. They aren't the same thing though. If they were, nobody would b-stick.
I usually just use PK Freeze to force an airdodge and then punish. Depends on their height of course.
^ Love doing this. Moving the freeze back to me, waiting for them to come on in, releasing early to force the dodge = free jab combo. Or other things.
 

eskimo bob

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that really works? that's very interesting... I've never been a fan of the move at all and have barely experimented with it at all.

/shame

I'm gonna try it out tomorrow when I get some practice... this could prove to be useful for me. :]
 

prOAPC

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i don't really remember, but there's a fight, Lucas vs Zelda, where Lucas uses PK Freeze like 3 times in a row, Zelda dodges them, but them Lucas recives her with a jab combo (or a fsmash, don't remember)
since the day i watched that fight, i tried to do that
 

Negative Zero

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I think you should mention the fact that it's possible to wavebounce without the B-stick. It's not even hard.

I also think that the dsmash is underrated, but I'm not going to push that one.
 

Dxt XXII

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^^D smash is best just to stop spot dodgers. Btw I already mentioned wavebouncing without B-stick (SH backwards and PKF forwards-some call it wavelanding but it gives you the same backwards momentum)
 

Levitas

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WRONG. The wavebounce without a bstick is possible, but it is a forward short hop with a lot of momentum backwards. The SH backwards isn't really a wavebounce, because you're only doing a reverse SH pk fire, not a reverse reverse SH pk fire, which is what a wavebounce is.
 

DemonicTrilogy

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That's for me to know
WRONG. The wavebounce without a bstick is possible, but it is a forward short hop with a lot of momentum backwards. The SH backwards isn't really a wavebounce, because you're only doing a reverse SH pk fire, not a reverse reverse SH pk fire, which is what a wavebounce is.
Wow, I got lost in that... Could you clarify?
 

Levitas

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You do a turnaround PK fire for the boost. In wavebouncing you do a turnaround PK fire that is turned around so that you mirror your momentum and get the backwards boost, but start off moving forward. There's exactly one frame of lucas facing the other way whenever you wavebounce, you can see it if you pay attention.
 

Levitas

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nope. I'll link you in a sec to the discussion.


i have tried it and it works. i got it on video and ill try to put it up if i can find my cords. in the meantime, you should try it. lucas prepares to PK fire backward but if you DI forward quick enough, he switches back to forwards, resulting in fake b-sticking

here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiz1h6Tfsss
Found on Page 2 of the stickied AT thread that GofG made.
 
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