First post - Please rate my Fox, fellas.

[Johrune]

Hey fellow Fox players,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I was wondering if y'all would mind rating my Fox? I'm part of a small, but competitive smash crew in Arkansas, so I'm always starving for competition since none exists in my state. Anywho, I would just like yall to point out places I could improve.

Here is a link to one fight. There are more fights on that same channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01lk82nBvEc&feature=channel_page

Thanks!
-Johrune

 

[Conviction]

Hey fellow Fox players,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I was wondering if y'all would mind rating my Fox? I'm part of a small, but competitive smash crew in Arkansas, so I'm always starving for competition since none exists in my state. Anywho, I would just like yall to point out places I could improve.

Here is a link to one fight. There are more fights on that same channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01lk82nBvEc&feature=channel_page

Thanks!
-Johrune

Couples I notice this with all new people. You Spotdodge and then dodge roll. And sometimes you are really dodging nothing. He could have turned around and punished you for your bad habit. Also, you like to SHDL and then Laser again when you land. THe reason You SHDL is to get no lag of ending the laser. You're adding on lag by doing it when you land, not good, he punished you for it. Just SHDL so you can get away when you land.

 

[Johrune]

Couples I notice this with all new people. You Spotdodge and then dodge roll. And sometimes you are really dodging nothing. He could have turned around and punished you for your bad habit. Also, you like to SHDL and then Laser again when you land. THe reason You SHDL is to get no lag of ending the laser. You're adding on lag by doing it when you land, not good, he punished you for it. Just SHDL so you can get away when you land.

Noted about the spotdodge then roll. Yeah, I know on the laser thing. That third laser is a mistake. Thanks for the feedback, though!

-Johrune

 

[Conviction]

Noted about the spotdodge then roll. Yeah, I know on the laser thing. That third laser is a mistake. Thanks for the feedback, though!

-Johrune

Oh well yea just watch for the the spotdodge to dodgeroll.

 

[Zhamy]

0:04 - Standing lasers. No. Short hop single/double lasers. You got punished for the standing lasers; don't do it again.

0:15 - Why did you throw out Usmash here?

0:30 - Why did you throw out Usmash here? He wasn't at kill percentage, and it wouldn't have connected.

0:33 - Stop using Dair so much. This is the third or fourth time you've gotten punished for it.

0:35 - If you have to land on stage, airdodge or something. But really, you could've easily grabbed the ledge and re-spaced yourself from there. Why you would run into Yoshi's Fsmash, I don't know.

0:40 - Fsmash is only really good for punishing rollers and spotdodgers.

0:47 - You should have been throwing out lasers to draw the Yoshi in. The Usmash was a lucky hit, but all it really did was delay your chances at killing, since it's now very stale.

1:07 - Eyes bleeding...too much Usmash.

1:24 - I'm hoping that was a misinput (silly buffer system), because there was NO reason to use Usmash there.

1:30 - Stop attacking into spotdodges. You've done it countless times now, and gotten punished for it many, many, many times in return.

1:36 - Please stop using Usmash.

2:27 - Don't know what you were thinking, but you died for it. Why didn't you grab the ledge on the way down?

The rest of the match is more of the same.

Really, three pieces of advice.
1) Stop relying on Dair/Usmash/Dsmash
2) SPACING. Learn how to bait and punish bad spacing, learn how to space well.
3) Learn your options. You're playing very much reactively in this match, instead of proactively.

 

[Conviction]

0:04 - Standing lasers. No. Short hop single/double lasers. You got punished for the standing lasers; don't do it again.

0:15 - Why did you throw out Usmash here?

0:30 - Why did you throw out Usmash here? He wasn't at kill percentage, and it wouldn't have connected.

0:33 - Stop using Dair so much. This is the third or fourth time you've gotten punished for it.

0:35 - If you have to land on stage, airdodge or something. But really, you could've easily grabbed the ledge and re-spaced yourself from there. Why you would run into Yoshi's Fsmash, I don't know.

0:40 - Fsmash is only really good for punishing rollers and spotdodgers.

0:47 - You should have been throwing out lasers to draw the Yoshi in. The Usmash was a lucky hit, but all it really did was delay your chances at killing, since it's now very stale.

1:07 - Eyes bleeding...too much Usmash.

1:24 - I'm hoping that was a misinput (silly buffer system), because there was NO reason to use Usmash there.

1:30 - Stop attacking into spotdodges. You've done it countless times now, and gotten punished for it many, many, many times in return.

1:36 - Please stop using Usmash.

2:27 - Don't know what you were thinking, but you died for it. Why didn't you grab the ledge on the way down?

The rest of the match is more of the same.

Really, three pieces of advice.
1) Stop relying on Dair/Usmash/Dsmash
2) SPACING. Learn how to bait and punish bad spacing, learn how to space well.
3) Learn your options. You're playing very much reactively in this match, instead of proactively.

I guess I really didn't pay attention I looked again and yea..... Usmash at like 0% basically....Usmash kill move. Not damage dealer. Dairs are everywhere. Watch you're opponet you falling for some stupid stuff. Think out you're moves when you come to stuck and they are punishing most of you're moves. I usually put some distance between myself. Then try to see what they expect empty SH some see what they do and take advantage of it. Less Dair. More SH FF Nair.

 

[Johrune]

Noted. Save the Up-smash and use my other options more.

I know I'm bad at spacing. It's something I'm going to work on.

Question: Do moves get stale only when they connect? If so, so they only get less stale as you connect with other moves?


Thanks again, all.

-Johrune

 

[Irsic]

Yes, moves only become stale when they hit.

This is why lasers are so important.

 

[Sukai]

You seem to be on the right track, but your style is a bit out-dated
I have a couple of pointers to help you alot in the long run.
First, do not try to follow up a down air with anything but a grab between 40%-80% Everything you do will be guarded and they will expect a physical follow up and even if they don't if the down air hits, they can't avoid it.
Don't get dodge happy, this is what keep alot of good players from evolving in their game, they will do an attack, and sidestep dodge like 2 or 3 times, expecting their opponent to try and take hits at them, if you're opponent catches this, you will be punished, and hard, not to mention that you risk looking stupid, dodging air and all.
Utilize the neutral air more, it's a treasure.
Against Yoshi, try not to follow up from a dash attack, Yoshi can come back with a neutral air and he will have more priority than you when doing so.
Try to save your up smash for higher, more useful percentages, if you do it this way, you can kill with it at 120% maybe lower, instead of waiting til 150% for it to be effective. There are ways to unstale it, but you gotta learn to space, before you learn to zone.
And most of all, don't get too offensive. As good as it feels to charge in and "Fox Lee" up some punks, you leave yourself too open and this can work against you in higher levels of play. It may not matter much due to the skill of your opponent, but Fox isn't gung ho, he wasn't made to be gung ho, so taking the gung ho approach will result in ****, with Fox on the victim side.
Keep it up though, with a bit more refinement, you'll have a deadly Fox.

*Edit*
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. Try not to shine stall without purpose.
Its a bad mindgame and achieves nothing but keeping you still for your opponent to get you.
I saw you do it, then you got edge guarded.

 

[Johrune]

All useful information I'll try to incorporate into my game. The grab out of the d-air is the only thing I had already started doing since this video was made.

If anyone else has any more advice, I'd be glad to hear it! I'll try to bring another video later on that incorporates this advice with my current style in a useful and smart manner.

-Johrune

 

[Zhamy]

First, do not try to follow up a down air with anything but a grab between 40%-80% Everything you do will be guarded and they will expect a physical follow up and even if they don't if the down air hits, they can't avoid it.

Wrong. Utilt works perfectly fine, so does jab, etc. etc. I have no idea where you got this data from, but you're giving falso info.

not to mention that you risk looking stupid, dodging air and all.

Right, not getting hit looks stupid.

Against Yoshi, try not to follow up from a dash attack, Yoshi can come back with a neutral air and he will have more priority than you when doing so.

At low and higher percents, yes. At mid percents, Utilt comes out faster.

Try to save your up smash for higher, more useful percentages, if you do it this way, you can kill with it at 120% maybe lower, instead of waiting til 150% for it to be effective. There are ways to unstale it, but you gotta learn to space, before you learn to zone.

While the part about saving Usmash is correct, it has nothing to do with zoning.

And most of all, don't get too offensive.

No. One of Fox's strong points is that he can take the offensive path. Even when you're camping with lasers, that helps to pressure, for example. You can indeed be very offensive, but the difficult part is doing that in a reliable and safe manner. If you're playing defensively without being forced into that situation, then you're not utilizing Fox's moveset as well as you could.

 

[Chileno4Live]

I am an aggresive Fox mainer i think. I do SHDL for reasons you should know ( forcing approaches and racking up some damage) and well yeah. I use FFnairs ALOT, i love that move. I spam it more than any Dairs. Even worse, i hardly use any Dairs in my game only when my opponent is in an after lag so i can punish him. Nair is my way to go. I also so Shield Dash Cancels to Grab mostly. I use waaayy to much Grab. XD

You should use less Dairs, don't use it to often unless your certainly sure the move wil hit. (Like i said to punish after lags.) Never use it if your above your opponent and he can do something back. Priority of Dair is sucky, you should Nair or just Air Dodge, or just try to Shine Stall above him and then Dair. I recommend using SHFFNairs alot more. It's a good approaching move (yes it is compared to the other approaches Fox can use not mentioning Dach Shield Cancel) and does decent damage. Also, i saw you using Fsmash pretty much. Don't use it to often. Use Dsmash as it can get your opponent offstage. Fsmash is bad, only use it when your opponent is spot dodging. You should also start to learn how to SHDL (Short Hop Double Laser) It has no lag when you used twice the laser so your opponent can't punish you so hard. At the beginning of the match, you got punished by Yoshi's grab just because Fox had to put the gun back.

Thse were your main flaws, i did saw some good things though. Shieldgrabs and Rising Fairs as jump to get back is good work. Just another small tip, try to cancel your illusion. The timing is hard, but it can help you alot

 

[M@v]

Noticed good things and bad things:

Bad things:

-barely saw anything other than standing lasers

-Used firefox a little too much imo. You should really only use it when you absolutely need it to recover. Illusion is much safer.

-nair? Barely saw any of them

-My biggest problem: the low percent upsmashes. You were using them after dairs under 20%. You would throw them out whenever you could. All this does is deteriorate your upsmash, which makes it MUCH harder for you to kill. Save upsmash; use it only above 65-70%, even later if its a heavy character. You need its power to get early KOs.

Good things:

-Your recovery seems pretty solid overall

-You did a lot of shieldgrabbing. Good.

-Made good use of rising Fair


SUGGESTIONS:
Try mixing up dair with nair and fair for approaches.

One of my favorite things to do is dair to grab. After you do a couple dair combos, most people you will face will usually bring their shield up after the dair. Grab them. Mix up between attacking and grabbing after dair/nair and keep them guessing.

SHDL-Really helps, hard to punish.

 

[Sukai]

I have no idea where you got this data from

Experience.
Up tilt stops working around 40% to 80%, your opponent can guard it, even if the down air hits, and same for the jab--and why would you jab anyway if your opponent can grab you during, Fox's jab should almost never be used, because every character can grab him while he's doing it, or even worse if they have range.
Now if you were to DASH ATTACK to up tilt, that can work.

Right, not getting hit looks stupid.

No, sidestep dodging while your opponent is just standing there watching you, makes you look stupid.

While the part about saving Usmash is correct, it has nothing to do with zoning.

I was thinking an entirely different sentence when I mentioned zoning, forget about that being in conjunction with the Up smash thing.

No. One of Fox's strong points is that he can take the offensive path. Even when you're camping with lasers, that helps to pressure, for example. You can indeed be very offensive, but the difficult part is doing that in a reliable and safe manner. If you're playing defensively without being forced into that situation, then you're not utilizing Fox's moveset as well as you could.

So...you're saying that its okay to play a gung ho Fox, but only if you're safe?
Uhh...yeah, okay...
Anyway you seems to have over-replied to my quote, what was it now...?

And most of all, don't get too offensive.

There we go.
Brawl is a defensive game, and there is only a handful of characters who are good at taking an offensive approach, sadly, Fox isn't one of them.

 

[Zhamy]

I'm just going to stop bothering with you, since you have trouble with the fundamentals, and I don't want to turn this guy's thread into something else. Good job, you've earned a spot on my ignore list.

 

[Johrune]

At the risk of sounding like a noob: What is the dash shield cancel and what are it's applications?

-Johrune

 

[Chileno4Live]

I'm just going to stop bothering with you, since you have trouble with the fundamentals, and I don't want to turn this guy's thread into something else. Good job, you've earned a spot on my ignore list.

Sigh, could you guys please stop flaming each other, this is not only Zhamy and Knuxrouge, but i've noticed alot of people are flaming each other and not respecting each other. How are we going to ever make a good community out of this? Let's just be nice to each other...

At the risk of sounding like a noob: What is the dash shield cancel and what are it's applications?

-Johrune

Dash Shield Cancel Is the best approach Fox has in his game. When you dash you can press the shield button (L or R on the Gamecube Controller) and you'll immidiatly stop dashing. This is a really good way to approach since if your opponent is going to attack you while your in shield, he won't hit you, while you can hit him with different ways like Usmash out of Shield. I usually grab though.

 

[KheldarVII]

Experience.
Up tilt stops working around 40% to 80%, your opponent can guard it, even if the down air hits, and same for the jab--and why would you jab anyway if your opponent can grab you during, Fox's jab should almost never be used, because every character can grab him while he's doing it, or even worse if they have range.
Now if you were to DASH ATTACK to up tilt, that can work.

No, sidestep dodging while your opponent is just standing there watching you, makes you look stupid.

I was thinking an entirely different sentence when I mentioned zoning, forget about that being in conjunction with the Up smash thing.

There we go.
Brawl is a defensive game, and there is only a handful of characters who are good at taking an offensive approach, sadly, Fox isn't one of them.

This is... quite the odd post. When did U-tilt stop working AFTER they've built up damage? I think you must've missed a few D-air hits in your experiments.

And don't rag on the jab. It's flamebait... seriously.

 

[Chileno4Live]

Yeah he's right don't go making flames it won't help anyone....

 

[Sukai]

What?
At no point was I ever posting with the intent to flame.
He questioned my post and I defended it, simple.

 

[Zhamy]

Dash Shield Cancel Is the best approach Fox has in his game. When you dash you can press the shield button (L or R on the Gamecube Controller) and you'll immidiatly stop dashing. This is a really good way to approach since if your opponent is going to attack you while your in shield, he won't hit you, while you can hit him with different ways like Usmash out of Shield. I usually grab though.

Just to clarify, Fox slides quite a bit when he shields straight out of his Dash, so done correctly, you'll end up closer and with better spacing than usual. What's even better is if you can predict and powershield the attack, as you'll end up almost right next to them.

Sigh, could you guys please stop flaming each other, this is not only Zhamy and Knuxrouge, but i've noticed alot of people are flaming each other and not respecting each other. How are we going to ever make a good community out of this? Let's just be nice to each other...

If you call that flaming then you haven't seen anything yet. I'm just ignoring the guy because he doesn't know the fundamentals.

 

[MyCurse4Life]

Nice, your fox is well-balanced and great, but yea you were pretty lucky at the end so I would consider you as a lucky son of a.....

 

[shadowfox009]

your fox is pretty decent. just try to conserve your u-smash for killing, throw some n-airs in the mix along with some SHFFLs.

 

[Zhamy]

SHFFLs.

Wrong game.

 

[Exceladon City]

Hey I was kinda curious if you guys could rate my Fox and give me some pointers on what to do in video number 2.
[VIDEO 1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvN3xHZs468
[VIDEO 2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYvNbvB2uHg
[VIDEO 3] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_EzsEzVZuk

 

[Chileno4Live]

Oreo (Excel),, iyt might be better if you post those vids at the ''Critique my Fox'' thread. This thread is specifically made for this guy who wanted his Fox to get rated. It would be smart to post your vids there.

@ Johrune: You are to predictable in msot cases, just like me. Try to mix up your game with creativity. For instance, i 3 stocked my friend beacause i learned to mix up my game abit. I illusion'd on the stage, which i don't usually do. I SHFair'd, which i hardly do. And i spaced with Bair, yeah, pretty weird I also tried to mix up my Approaches. Because i most Dash Shield Cancel to approach, but he just grabs me, he's like that. So this time, i tried to SHAD (Short Hop Aerial Dodge) which is a pretty good technique considering he couldnt'grab me, and i became behind him, punishing him with some Utilts.

Try to be a bit more creative, and don't let Dair be your approach, it's the worst. Only Dair if your opponent has low shield or when he has ending lag. And sometimes just random to be unpredictable

 

[Exceladon City]

Oreo (Excel),, iyt might be better if you post those vids at the ''Critique my Fox'' thread. This thread is specifically made for this guy who wanted his Fox to get rated. It would be smart to post your vids there.

@ Johrune: You are to predictable in msot cases, just like me. Try to mix up your game with creativity. For instance, i 3 stocked my friend beacause i learned to mix up my game abit. I illusion'd on the stage, which i don't usually do. I SHFair'd, which i hardly do. And i spaced with Bair, yeah, pretty weird I also tried to mix up my Approaches. Because i most Dash Shield Cancel to approach, but he just grabs me, he's like that. So this time, i tried to SHAD (Short Hop Aerial Dodge) which is a pretty good technique considering he couldnt'grab me, and i became behind him, punishing him with some Utilts.

Try to be a bit more creative, and don't let Dair be your approach, it's the worst. Only Dair if your opponent has low shield or when he has ending lag. And sometimes just random to be unpredictable

Alright thanks.

 

[Johrune]

Thanks, Chileno. Personally SHAD is my favorite approach.

 

[Xiivi]

From now on people should use the 'Official "Critique My Fox" Thread' instead of making individual threads.