First Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List

It is common for fighting game communities to create a tier list for their game as a source of reference and debate regarding the tournament viability of the cast. The Smash scene is no exception to this, and all games in the series have had a tier list posted to SmashBoards. More often than not, the website itself was instrumental to the creation of these lists, mainly through projects organized by the so-called Smash Back Room for each respective game.

Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS finds itself in the unique position of receiving patches, DLC characters and stages for more than a year after release, with two more characters still forthcoming. As a result of this, it made sense to hold off on tier list discussion until a period of relative stability came along. The current patch (1.1.3) left the majority of the cast relatively untouched and had Genesis 3 as a major showcase, so we chose this build as a foundation. With the recent launch of the 4BR, we were in a good position for the official tier list project to finally get underway.

The 4BR acknowledges that tier lists are often controversial and won't be perfect at the first iteration, if ever. We do, however, strive to study the game to the best of our ability and give a sincere opinion on the current state of affairs. As such, a tier list can be an important benchmark to look back on as the game progresses.

To illustrate this, compare the first and last tier lists for Brawl. Over the nearly 5 years separating the two, we saw the fall of top tier threats like King Dedede, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch, the rise of supposed mid tiers like Captain Olimar and Zero Suit Samus and the blatant early misjudgment of Zelda's potential. Despite these major shifts, the majority of the cast did not end up that far from where they initially started.

Our community has pushed Smash 4 hard from day one, and we have more resources at our disposal than ever before, be it complete frame data, tutorials, or tournament footage. It will be interesting to see how this affects our accuracy in rating the cast, something only time will tell. All that being said, we are proud to present you the first official tier list for Smash Bros. for Wii U!

Procedure

In late December 2015, 4BR members were asked to distribute all 56 released characters across 20 tiers, with no differentiation within the same tier. Voters could place gaps wherever they wanted and there were no restrictions on the amount of characters in the same group. They had to assume play under the 1.1.3 patch with no custom moves allowed, while Miis had to be considered with their 1111 moveset only, in accordance with tournament reality at the biggest events. The 4BR at this moment has no official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters.

We agreed to let voting run until after Genesis 3, which would hopefully provide us with insights into especially the more recent additions to the cast, most notably Cloud. During the voting process, there was a separate topic for reasoning and discussion. We also asked a small group of non-members to submit a vote, in order to involve more people at the forefront of the metagame. We ended up with 53 votes, of which 34 were American and 19 were international.

These are the people who submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster (AeroLink)
@Alphicans
@Amazing Ampharos
@Ambrose (My Smash Corner)
@ASC | Red Ryu
@Camalange
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@DtJ XeroXen
@D1
@earth_tyt (Earth)
@False
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@gsmVoiD (VoiD)
@istudying
@John123456
@Katakiri
@k9.
@Liberation
Marc
@Meru.
@Mister Eric
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NAKAT
@NickRiddle
@nietono
@qb9b
@Ranai
@Raziek
@Rayquaza07
@Remzi (VABengal)
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Spinosaurus
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@TA~Mav
@The calm tyrant... (Tyrant)
@TheReflexWonder
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Xzax Kasrani
@Zan-
@Zigsta
@---
@-6WX-

Spoiler: Breakdown by region

USA
Atlantic North: 12
Midwest: 8
Pacific West: 7
Southwest: 4
Atlantic South: 3

International
Europe: 8
Japan: 6
Canada: 3
Australia: 2

Note that we will not release individual votes, but any voter is free to share his own vote with the public. The most notable abstainee was @TSM ZeRo, who felt it was still too early for a tier list.

Results

@Shaya processed the votes and found these average placements, standard deviations and gaps between average placements for the cast:

Spoiler: Raw voting data

Character | Average Placement | Standard Deviation | Gap
Sheik | 20.0 | 0.0 | 0.0
Zero Suit Samus | 19.46 | 0.708 | 0.538
Rosalina | 18.77 | 0.87 | 0.687
Ryu | 17.95 | 1.103 | 0.82
Pikachu | 17.86 | 1.065 | 0.099
Sonic | 17.83 | 1.269 | 0.021
Fox | 17.52 | 1.146 | 0.313
Mario | 17.51 | 1.108 | 0.014
Diddy Kong | 17.43 | 0.998 | 0.082
Meta Knight | 17.12 | 1.489 | 0.307
Villager | 16.52 | 1.614 | 0.597
Cloud | 16.5 | 1.657 | 0.023
Ness | 16.39 | 1.502 | 0.11
Captain Falcon | 15.16 | 1.767 | 1.228
Yoshi | 15.15 | 1.893 | 0.013
Luigi | 14.27 | 1.996 | 0.881
Dark Pit | 13.89 | 2.138 | 0.381
Pit | 13.88 | 2.308 | 0.006
Peach | 13.75 | 2.115 | 0.133
R.O.B. | 13.63 | 2.221 | 0.12
Wario | 13.56 | 1.898 | 0.067
Toon Link | 13.2 | 2.416 | 0.357
Lucario | 12.92 | 2.224 | 0.285
Olimar | 12.47 | 2.452 | 0.454
Greninja | 12.25 | 2.633 | 0.215
Ike | 12.12 | 2.425 | 0.126
Donkey Kong | 11.8 | 2.252 | 0.325
Mega Man | 11.41 | 2.159 | 0.386
Pac-Man | 11.29 | 2.278 | 0.124
Bowser | 10.81 | 2.66 | 0.477
Robin | 10.17 | 2.722 | 0.642
Roy | 9.29 | 3.209 | 0.883
Kirby | 9.1 | 3.388 | 0.183
Bowser Jr. | 8.93 | 2.671 | 0.176
Mr. Game & Watch | 8.72 | 2.47 | 0.21
Lucas | 8.65 | 2.993 | 0.071
Mewtwo | 8.35 | 2.666 | 0.297
Falco | 8.12 | 3.026 | 0.232
Wii Fit Trainer | 8.08 | 2.674 | 0.037
Shulk | 7.75 | 2.926 | 0.325
Marth | 7.72 | 2.237 | 0.038
Link | 7.47 | 2.474 | 0.249
Duck Hunt Dog | 7.18 | 3.11 | 0.283
Little Mac | 7.18 | 2.633 | 0.009
Dr. Mario | 7.14 | 2.437 | 0.033
King Dedede | 6.04 | 2.721 | 1.107
Lucina | 5.59 | 2.547 | 0.447
Mii Brawler | 5.01 | 2.952 | 0.584
Charizard | 4.79 | 2.255 | 0.218
Palutena | 4.78 | 2.199 | 0.008
Samus | 4.12 | 1.942 | 0.656
Mii Gunner | 3.6 | 2.153 | 0.525
Mii Swordsman | 3.32 | 2.054 | 0.282
Ganondorf | 3.23 | 1.675 | 0.082
Jigglypuff | 2.79 | 2.035 | 0.448
Zelda | 1.96 | 1.259 | 0.828

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the mean, while a higher standard deviation means that the character had a larger range of placements. Most standard deviations are over 1, indicating that we are far from a consensus.

We considered all gaps over .50 as tier separation points and those above .75 for a change in label (Top, High, etc.). However, we decided against single character tiers and the C tier occupying a "High Mid" label with just two characters. Finally, we split F tier into two based on the largest difference within that group of 14 characters.

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v1.0 (1.1.3 patch)

Top
S:

High
A:
B:

Middle
C:
D:
E:

Low
F:
G:

Bottom
H:
I:
J:

Text version:

S: Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina & Luma
A: Ryu, Pikachu, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight
B: Villager, Cloud, Ness
C: Captain Falcon, Yoshi
D: Luigi, Dark Pit, Pit, Peach, R.O.B., Wario, Toon Link, Lucario
E: Captain Olimar, Greninja, Ike, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser, Robin
F: Roy, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Mewtwo, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer
G: Shulk, Marth, Link, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Dr. Mario
H: King Dedede, Lucina
I: Mii Brawler, Charizard, Palutena
J: Samus, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda

Graphic version:

Conclusion

The first year of Smash 4 has been an absolute rollercoaster, with players flocking from Bowser to Diddy Kong to Sheik to Luigi to Donkey Kong to Sheik again. With the completion of the cast on the horizon and the nerfs and buffs slowing to a halt, the game can be expected to come to full fruition in 2016. We can't wait to see the Smash 4 tier list evolve over the years as Smashers all over the world rise to the challenge -- and with them, their respective characters.

What do you think of the tier list? Would you have placed any characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will also include a more in-depth analysis of the results with statements by 4BR members.

Major thanks go out to @Shaya for processing the votes, @Zigsta and @Liberation for helping with the release and @Xiivi, @Shaya, and @Camalange for collecting outside votes and various odds and ends. Finally, a shoutout to all the voters for their time and input. I was proud to spearhead this project and receive help from so many dedicated people.

 

I thought the existence of the Downthrow 50/50 and BF means she doesn't have that hard a time killing?

Just DI to either side and jump out. lt's not too hard to avoid.

Plus, Mii Brawler has a Ken String (because Smash 4).

 

Feel like Wed would have been an ideal time for this haha

 

@Shaya
Does the 4BR have a Link representative? If so, how many?
I'm actually legitimately curious about that. Or do you know someone who does know how many?

They only have good top/high level players.

The only possibility would be Izaw.

 

Why did they release it just a couple days before the final DLC release? It seems silly to not just wait until then...

 

So uhhh.... official tier list made when 2 characters are being released in 2 days along with a patch that could have possible buffs/nerfs. Sounds smart to me.

Ikr, all this effort for a tier list that's going to be obsolete in 2 days.

 

No, nonono, aww hell no

 

Lucas Low, seriously? Who made that """""Officiel"""" Tier List. Lucas is "top" Tier for sure. Not the same "top" as they call (he's not top 3 of course) but definitely top 10.

 

Hey they forgot the Ice Climbers

I miss killer chaingrabs...

Ness can absorb her neutral b paralyzer safely every time. (He can also absorb her down smash, but that's far less safe and requires an extremely fast reaction time.) This changes the neutral significantly, as it forces her to approach in other ways. Ness's out of shield game is great, and if you dodge a grab attempt then you can tipper an fsmash for really early KOs. Ness also falls out of her UpB kills pretty easily if you know how to SDI.

Further, Ness can reliably intercept her down b with Flash to hilarious effect. She's also pretty gimpable with offstage PK Fire if you force her to recover low with Ness's dsmash or just footstool.

I could go on if you like. I feel like Ness has a lot of great answers to ZSS's shenanigans.

What kind of ZSS players you play? Magnet is unsafe at certain ranges. And it's not a frame 1 move that's used on reaction, it requires a read to ue it correctly. ZSS can just camp out with Side B and run away if she wants. Punishing goes without saying. Any non-fatty can SDI out of ZSS' Up B. PK Flash is the most punishable thing in the galaxy and it will never hit. You better shield or wait and use PKT to mess up ZSS' landing. Good luck touching ZSS when recovering.

 

Miis shouldnt even be counted because annoying ass ****ing TOs cant agree on ****

 

Lucas Low, seriously? Who made that """""Officiel"""" Tier List. Lucas is "top" Tier for sure. Not the same "top" as they call (he's not top 3 of course) but definitely top 10.

He is not better than the likes of villager, ness, and diddy(I think those were the lower characters in this tier list) as the meta stands right now

 

I like the tier list but it just seems so silly to release just mere days before the final update. I think it's too bad, considering they're going to have to spend months making a whole new one in a couple days.

 

This tier list...I have a lot of problems with it. Overall pretty...okay, but still.
I believe it's still far too early for a tier list.

 

My main problem with this list (outside of it being released too early IMO) is the grouping. I think it's completely unnecessary to have a list go all the way to J. It should be like F at the furthest.

Tiers that should be consolidated:

B&C (I know that B is high and C is mid, but having characters like Falcon and Yoshi in the same general tier as Bowser really rubs me the wrong way regardless of how the points distribution is interpreted)
D&E (relabel as high mid-tier)
F&G (relabel as low mid-tier)
H&I (make this low-tier)

I like the actual ordering of the characters though, so at least you guys got the hard part out of the way lol.

 

Lucas Low, seriously? Who made that """""Officiel"""" Tier List. Lucas is "top" Tier for sure. Not the same "top" as they call (he's not top 3 of course) but definitely top 10.

People 100x better than you made this list.
If you think lucas is top 10 go win Evo or something and prove it lmao

 

Lucas Low, seriously? Who made that """""Officiel"""" Tier List. Lucas is "top" Tier for sure. Not the same "top" as they call (he's not top 3 of course) but definitely top 10.

How is he top ten? He has worse results and theory than everyone at least C/D-tier and up.

 

• Pika at 5th despite only having one good player who can barely finish top 8 anymore.
• MK barely in the top 10 despite dominating multiple continents.
• Characters like Diddy/Sonic ranked below other A-tiers despite having a proven record vs. Sheik.
• No +/- subgroupings (thus implying large gaps in viability between each of A-J.)

I am highly disappointed that such an intelligent group of people managed to compile a list as mediocre as this one.

 

Anyway, I think that this list is actually pretty accurate overall. The only changes I would make would only be on the order of five or so places per change.

 

Well, you know, we could have accepted actually waiting for a tier list to come out, Shaya. Nothing comes under such heavy backfire like this if it wasn't feeling like it was rushed.

Most people are agreeing that the tier list is flawed heavily among everything, and that it goes to show that we're NOT ready for one just yet.

Larry man, calm down, the comments are full of salt and people that are disagreeing yes, but disagreeing about wildly different things. Just take it for what it is: Not the true power-ranking, but the accumulation of the PERCEPTION and RESULTS perceived by a lot of people.

 

They only have good top/high level players.

The only possibility would be Izaw.

If they have literally only none to one Link representative, then people would get away with saying Link has to be so low.

 

What? It's not like I'm going to EVO or anything.
Oh wait...
I am. I am going to EVO this year and use Link as my main.

Besides, it's also not like I don't know how to play.
(We can ALWAYS test that out now.)

It'd help your argument if you weren't saying this before Evo 2015 as well.

 

May I suggest a graph showing average placement and deviation (given by the height of the bar)? Would be pretty nice!

To anyone complaining, wow, you make my day. Old story all over again, people think to know better than the back room. lol

 

Pretty mediocre tier list. Can't wait for the patch to walk all over it.

 

This could've easily waited until after SmashCon at the very least. Also, J Tier? What's wrong with the lowest tier being D-?

 

Okay seriously, give me ONE good reason why Puff is not the worst character. I know that it's a first, but what do you guys see in puff other than her air and camping games? Her ground game is atrocious aside from dash attack, she's easily out ranged by just about everyone, absolutely no combos, the lack of an actual third jump hurts her gravely imo, her specials are horrible except for pound (and don't say rest, that move hasn't been that good since brawl), getting nothing from a grab (at least samus and zelda have combo throws), end lag in most of her smash attacks, and being the lightest character in the game can really hurt her game. So what do you guys see in puff that doesn't make her the worst character?

 

Oh damn. I was expecting them to wait until the last patch released along with the final characters so the game can actually be 100% complete. If anything the Smash4 competitive meta leading up to this final update was beta stuff lol, now that everything will be set in stone 2 days from now I think they could've held off just a bit more.

Either way it's good to see an actual tier list after waiting for so long. Sonic boys living the high life. They laughed at us in Brawl but look who's laughing now XD

Never forget

 

Chanc

...they're going to have to spend months making a whole new one in a couple days.

Let's be honest, the odds of something completely game changing (like the Luigi nerf or DK ding-dong) coming from the patch would be pretty low. The most drastic l can see coming for sure is some Cloud nerfs, because everyone's complaining about him, just like the original Mac. We remember what happened to THAT guy, right? We got Glass Joe instead.

 

If they have literally only none to one Link representative, then people would get away with saying Link has to be so low.

They have a list of people who voted, and this is a list of results and perceived viability as of 1.1.3. Link doesn't have enough results to place above what he did.

Look at Mewtwo. Blue consistently places top 12 at KTAR, wins weeklies around were he lives in Penn and tristate area and has taken a set off Nairo.

Mewsquared places highly at Shockwave tournies.

Thereflexwonder won a rather large tourney with Mewtwo.

Mewtwo has mediocre results, but he is still placed really low. Does link have better results then this?

Also, there are many other Mewtwo's that do well, just usually in there smaller regions. Tennessee and such.

 

I think it's a good start and as time goes on it will evolve and fast

 

@Warchamp7 just tweeted something I think all of you should see.

Everyone reacting negatively to the Wii U tier list today wants A. without having to go through B. pic.twitter.com/E7wAJnxvQ0

— 𝙒𝘼𝙍★𝘾𝙃𝘼𝙈𝙋𝟳 (@Warchamp7) February 2, 2016

 

Chanc


Let's be honest, the odds of something completely game changing (like the Luigi nerf or DK ding-dong) coming from the patch would be pretty low. The most drastic l can see coming for sure is some Cloud nerfs, because everyone's complaining about him, just like the original Mac. We remember what happened to THAT guy, right? We got Glass Joe instead.

Actually, my guess is that they're going to change a ton. Remember, this is their last chance to make any last minute changes. I bet this one's gonna be whopper.

 

The reason I think Sonic is top 5 is because more representation, and has a good matchup vs sheik IMO

 

So what do you guys see in puff that doesn't make her the worst character?

Fair into rest.

 

To anyone complaining about timing, they obviously didn't expect the patch to come out so soon. It just happened. Way better having this posted for the time being than having wasted time and waiting for some time after the new patch.

 

I'm not an expert Smasher by any means, but I feel the grouping is too wide.

I think this grouping would work better since it implies much less broadness in how good characters are in this game.

S: Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina & Luma
A+: Ryu, Pikachu, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight
A: Villager, Cloud, Ness
A-: Captain Falcon, Yoshi
B: Luigi, Dark Pit, Pit, Peach, R.O.B., Wario, Toon Link, Lucario
C+: Captain Olimar, Greninja, Ike, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser, Robin
C: Roy, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Mewtwo, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer
C-: Shulk, Marth, Link, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Dr. Mario
D+: King Dedede, Lucina
D: Mii Brawler, Charizard, Palutena
D-: Samus, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda

Just my two cents.

 

If they have literally only none to one Link representative, then people would get away with saying Link has to be so low.

It has nothing to do with "getting away" as much as reality.

Link has no results.

Link has only a handful of mains, none of them doing much.

Link does not have the frame data to suggest he's better than what we've seen.

Until Link gets real offline results, he will not move unless the next patch does something major. Not one spot, unless its down maybe. Don't try to say you'll change it, bluntly: you won't. Anther doesn't matter one iota.

Link is not good. He doesn't need to be good for you to enjoy playing as him. Accept it, move on. Or at least stop acting like its a "fact" that Link is better when nothing could be farther from the truth.

If you want to crusade behind somebody who has a hope of moving up, pick somebody like G&W.

 

Anyone else think that Roy is a little to low?

 

Also, I was going to make the melee comparison, how dare you Warchamp. But yeah, Melee went through hell to get where they are today. Lets just hope we don't die out like brawl.

 

Actually, my guess is that they're going to change a ton. Remember, this is their last chance to make any last minute changes. I bet this one's gonna be whopper.

Eh, l guess. But that could turn off a lot of the players from the game in some way. l don't think they'd go for something like that with the cast unless it benefited almost every character in some way.

 

Ikr, all this effort for a tier list that's going to be obsolete in 2 days.

Yea because totally the patch will make this whole tier list flip upside down and Sheik's going to be mid-low tier.

 

Overall I can agree with this tier list, not sure about it being posted 2 days before a balance patch though. Of course the balance patch is not going to "make this whole tier list flip upside down (^)" but it's the thought of the matter.