First Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List

It is common for fighting game communities to create a tier list for their game as a source of reference and debate regarding the tournament viability of the cast. The Smash scene is no exception to this, and all games in the series have had a tier list posted to SmashBoards. More often than not, the website itself was instrumental to the creation of these lists, mainly through projects organized by the so-called Smash Back Room for each respective game.

Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS finds itself in the unique position of receiving patches, DLC characters and stages for more than a year after release, with two more characters still forthcoming. As a result of this, it made sense to hold off on tier list discussion until a period of relative stability came along. The current patch (1.1.3) left the majority of the cast relatively untouched and had Genesis 3 as a major showcase, so we chose this build as a foundation. With the recent launch of the 4BR, we were in a good position for the official tier list project to finally get underway.

The 4BR acknowledges that tier lists are often controversial and won't be perfect at the first iteration, if ever. We do, however, strive to study the game to the best of our ability and give a sincere opinion on the current state of affairs. As such, a tier list can be an important benchmark to look back on as the game progresses.

To illustrate this, compare the first and last tier lists for Brawl. Over the nearly 5 years separating the two, we saw the fall of top tier threats like King Dedede, R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch, the rise of supposed mid tiers like Captain Olimar and Zero Suit Samus and the blatant early misjudgment of Zelda's potential. Despite these major shifts, the majority of the cast did not end up that far from where they initially started.

Our community has pushed Smash 4 hard from day one, and we have more resources at our disposal than ever before, be it complete frame data, tutorials, or tournament footage. It will be interesting to see how this affects our accuracy in rating the cast, something only time will tell. All that being said, we are proud to present you the first official tier list for Smash Bros. for Wii U!

Procedure

In late December 2015, 4BR members were asked to distribute all 56 released characters across 20 tiers, with no differentiation within the same tier. Voters could place gaps wherever they wanted and there were no restrictions on the amount of characters in the same group. They had to assume play under the 1.1.3 patch with no custom moves allowed, while Miis had to be considered with their 1111 moveset only, in accordance with tournament reality at the biggest events. The 4BR at this moment has no official stance or recommendation on ruleset matters.

We agreed to let voting run until after Genesis 3, which would hopefully provide us with insights into especially the more recent additions to the cast, most notably Cloud. During the voting process, there was a separate topic for reasoning and discussion. We also asked a small group of non-members to submit a vote, in order to involve more people at the forefront of the metagame. We ended up with 53 votes, of which 34 were American and 19 were international.

These are the people who submitted a vote:

Spoiler: List of Voters

@AeroLink_the_SoulMaster (AeroLink)
@Alphicans
@Amazing Ampharos
@Ambrose (My Smash Corner)
@ASC | Red Ryu
@Camalange
@CHOMPY
@CYVE
@Dabuz
@DtJ XeroXen
@D1
@earth_tyt (Earth)
@False
@Fox Is Openly Deceptive
@gsmVoiD (VoiD)
@istudying
@John123456
@Katakiri
@k9.
@Liberation
Marc
@Meru.
@Mister Eric
@Mr-R
@Myran
@NAKAT
@NickRiddle
@nietono
@qb9b
@Ranai
@Raziek
@Rayquaza07
@Remzi (VABengal)
@rintarosu10 (RIN)
@san.
@Seagull Joe
@Shaya
@Slice~ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Spinosaurus
@SS_and_TH (Komorikiri)
@TA~Mav
@The calm tyrant... (Tyrant)
@TheReflexWonder
@Thinkaman
@Trela
@UltimateRazer (GrimTurtle)
@vyQ (Beefy Smash Doods)
@Xiivi
@Xzax Kasrani
@Zan-
@Zigsta
@---
@-6WX-

Spoiler: Breakdown by region

USA
Atlantic North: 12
Midwest: 8
Pacific West: 7
Southwest: 4
Atlantic South: 3

International
Europe: 8
Japan: 6
Canada: 3
Australia: 2

Note that we will not release individual votes, but any voter is free to share his own vote with the public. The most notable abstainee was @TSM ZeRo, who felt it was still too early for a tier list.

Results

@Shaya processed the votes and found these average placements, standard deviations and gaps between average placements for the cast:

Spoiler: Raw voting data

Character | Average Placement | Standard Deviation | Gap
Sheik | 20.0 | 0.0 | 0.0
Zero Suit Samus | 19.46 | 0.708 | 0.538
Rosalina | 18.77 | 0.87 | 0.687
Ryu | 17.95 | 1.103 | 0.82
Pikachu | 17.86 | 1.065 | 0.099
Sonic | 17.83 | 1.269 | 0.021
Fox | 17.52 | 1.146 | 0.313
Mario | 17.51 | 1.108 | 0.014
Diddy Kong | 17.43 | 0.998 | 0.082
Meta Knight | 17.12 | 1.489 | 0.307
Villager | 16.52 | 1.614 | 0.597
Cloud | 16.5 | 1.657 | 0.023
Ness | 16.39 | 1.502 | 0.11
Captain Falcon | 15.16 | 1.767 | 1.228
Yoshi | 15.15 | 1.893 | 0.013
Luigi | 14.27 | 1.996 | 0.881
Dark Pit | 13.89 | 2.138 | 0.381
Pit | 13.88 | 2.308 | 0.006
Peach | 13.75 | 2.115 | 0.133
R.O.B. | 13.63 | 2.221 | 0.12
Wario | 13.56 | 1.898 | 0.067
Toon Link | 13.2 | 2.416 | 0.357
Lucario | 12.92 | 2.224 | 0.285
Olimar | 12.47 | 2.452 | 0.454
Greninja | 12.25 | 2.633 | 0.215
Ike | 12.12 | 2.425 | 0.126
Donkey Kong | 11.8 | 2.252 | 0.325
Mega Man | 11.41 | 2.159 | 0.386
Pac-Man | 11.29 | 2.278 | 0.124
Bowser | 10.81 | 2.66 | 0.477
Robin | 10.17 | 2.722 | 0.642
Roy | 9.29 | 3.209 | 0.883
Kirby | 9.1 | 3.388 | 0.183
Bowser Jr. | 8.93 | 2.671 | 0.176
Mr. Game & Watch | 8.72 | 2.47 | 0.21
Lucas | 8.65 | 2.993 | 0.071
Mewtwo | 8.35 | 2.666 | 0.297
Falco | 8.12 | 3.026 | 0.232
Wii Fit Trainer | 8.08 | 2.674 | 0.037
Shulk | 7.75 | 2.926 | 0.325
Marth | 7.72 | 2.237 | 0.038
Link | 7.47 | 2.474 | 0.249
Duck Hunt Dog | 7.18 | 3.11 | 0.283
Little Mac | 7.18 | 2.633 | 0.009
Dr. Mario | 7.14 | 2.437 | 0.033
King Dedede | 6.04 | 2.721 | 1.107
Lucina | 5.59 | 2.547 | 0.447
Mii Brawler | 5.01 | 2.952 | 0.584
Charizard | 4.79 | 2.255 | 0.218
Palutena | 4.78 | 2.199 | 0.008
Samus | 4.12 | 1.942 | 0.656
Mii Gunner | 3.6 | 2.153 | 0.525
Mii Swordsman | 3.32 | 2.054 | 0.282
Ganondorf | 3.23 | 1.675 | 0.082
Jigglypuff | 2.79 | 2.035 | 0.448
Zelda | 1.96 | 1.259 | 0.828

A standard deviation of (close to) 0 means that voters generally placed the character close to the mean, while a higher standard deviation means that the character had a larger range of placements. Most standard deviations are over 1, indicating that we are far from a consensus.

We considered all gaps over .50 as tier separation points and those above .75 for a change in label (Top, High, etc.). However, we decided against single character tiers and the C tier occupying a "High Mid" label with just two characters. Finally, we split F tier into two based on the largest difference within that group of 14 characters.

Official 4BR Smash for Wii U Tier List v1.0 (1.1.3 patch)

Top
S:

High
A:
B:

Middle
C:
D:
E:

Low
F:
G:

Bottom
H:
I:
J:

Text version:

S: Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Rosalina & Luma
A: Ryu, Pikachu, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight
B: Villager, Cloud, Ness
C: Captain Falcon, Yoshi
D: Luigi, Dark Pit, Pit, Peach, R.O.B., Wario, Toon Link, Lucario
E: Captain Olimar, Greninja, Ike, Donkey Kong, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Bowser, Robin
F: Roy, Kirby, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Lucas, Mewtwo, Falco, Wii Fit Trainer
G: Shulk, Marth, Link, Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Dr. Mario
H: King Dedede, Lucina
I: Mii Brawler, Charizard, Palutena
J: Samus, Mii Gunner, Mii Swordfighter, Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, Zelda

Graphic version:

Conclusion

The first year of Smash 4 has been an absolute rollercoaster, with players flocking from Bowser to Diddy Kong to Sheik to Luigi to Donkey Kong to Sheik again. With the completion of the cast on the horizon and the nerfs and buffs slowing to a halt, the game can be expected to come to full fruition in 2016. We can't wait to see the Smash 4 tier list evolve over the years as Smashers all over the world rise to the challenge -- and with them, their respective characters.

What do you think of the tier list? Would you have placed any characters differently? Let us know what your thoughts and questions are and we will try to address the most common ones in a followup article, which will also include a more in-depth analysis of the results with statements by 4BR members.

Major thanks go out to @Shaya for processing the votes, @Zigsta and @Liberation for helping with the release and @Xiivi, @Shaya, and @Camalange for collecting outside votes and various odds and ends. Finally, a shoutout to all the voters for their time and input. I was proud to spearhead this project and receive help from so many dedicated people.

 

Hey they forgot the Ice Climbers

 

I'm sure the "it's too early" commenter trolls are just here to get thumbs up on their comments. The list is already out. Watchu gon' do `bout it?

 

If you squint, Sheik looks like Shulk! Shulk number one! We win! We win!

If you squint, Zelda looks like Brawl Meta Knight.

 

The tier list itself is not bad, but I don't see the point in releasing one when Corrin and Bayonetta come out in 2 days, as well as character changes that could possibly be significant.

 

Good job on the he list guys! It really reflects last years and up til G3's Meta!

 

Let's not let the SSBWiki take this with viability.

First off, Ganondorf is not in the bottom three characters; he's a low tier, if not a lower middle tier character.

Then they have the audacity to put bottom tier Robin into high tier!?

Ooh, and Link in Low Tier when he's been agreed to be middle tier or upper middle?

Ryu...in top...five...WHAT?!

Game and Watch, Kirby and Little Mac in low tier? Where are their accurate bottom tier placements?

King Dedede's meant to be in the bottom five, you know.

Like seriously, 4BR, you need to really disband and remake yourself.
A tier list like this is actually unacceptable.

Literally every one of your complaints are just flat out wrong.

 

I'm going to look back on this one day...
And I'm going to laugh.
And laugh.
And laugh some more.
Because we're eventually getting a better tier list.

 

I don't see why some people are getting so worked up over this. Why would the fact that the game is getting patched mean that they can't post their work? Do impending changes mean that the 4BR can't publicize their thoughts on Sm4sh at this moment in time? Why would they throw away all of their time and effort rather than just releasing the list regardless, or perhaps just setting the groundwork for future lists? Yes, the game is getting patched in two days, I am positive that the 4BR is aware of this; that fact alone most certainly does not defeat the purpose of posting an amalgamation of their thoughts on the current meta.

 

When it comes to the actual list, I'm assuming no one on this list has seen 1111 Brawler, because if they have and they have him above Zelda, that's pretty ridiculous tbh. Brawler 1111 should almost definitely be in a tier list on his own. Literally all he has is some ground mobility and combos to 50-60 before he has to get you to 150 after you learn the match up. Panel as a whole seems pretty uninformed about Mii Fighters in the 1111 Metagame tbh.

LOL

no.

Zelda is useless. At least Brawler has great mobility which is great for a game like Sm4sh where it's very neutral heavy & fantastic frame data. Zelda has a recovery & many kill moves but little confirms into them (though Brawler is very much in the same boat here)

 

Radical Larry Stop whining

 

Is this tier list going to matter in two days?

All things considered, though, even as a general guideline, I disagree with Ike being put lower-mid when three Ikes hit Top 32, and Ryo hit Top 8 in two nationals. I see more results from Ike than half of the mid-tier characters.

Mewtwo being low is funny when that one guy beat Nairo in Winner's Finals. He's more or less the recent discovery, and I feel his placement in the tier list is less about his current data and more his accumulation of tournament rounds since his release.

It's interesting, though. Top tiers are completely accurate, and so are the lower ones. The middle is where my question comes into play.

Mewtwo didn't do well last year, I would only be annoyed if he isn't placed higher on the next list. He will continue to grow, but his results are still small pre-G3.

 

@Shaya
Does the 4BR have a Link representative? If so, how many?
I'm actually legitimately curious about that. Or do you know someone who does know how many?

 

I'm going to look back on this one day...
And I'm going to laugh.
And laugh.
And laugh some more.
Because we're eventually getting a better tier list.

That's how tier lists work.

They improve as time goes on. . .

 

Again, melees current list is more agreeable than their first one. For all their complaints in the first one, i am sure that all of them for this one will either get fixed/explained in the future.

 

Is this list not BS?
Is Ganondorf not generally agreed to be low tier?
Is Link not generally agreed to be mid-tier?
Is Kirby not generally agreed to be bottom tier?
And WHY THE HELL IS ROBIN IN HIGH TIER!?

Ganondorf is generally agreed to be bottom 3.
Link is generally agreed to be low tier.
Kirby is generally agreed to be low-mid.
Robin is generally agreed to be mid tier, which he is.

Stop being delusional.

 

I could care less what all of the people in the chat say because they are just crapping on this tier list. I agree with the majority of this list. Even if their are some things I don't agree with its not that big of a deal. I commend you guys for starting the year strong with a good tier list. :]

 

Radical Larry Stop whining

Y'know what, I'm done. I'm going to like...
Actually do a lot of matches against people on Anther's and stuff.
Get on online tournaments, host online tournaments, etc.

I'm gonna do something to prove people Link's placement is wrong at the least.

 

I have no accurate words to describe how hard I laughed when I saw that J tier is a thing.

 

Robin is mid tier how is he bottom tier?

Who the **** thinks Robin is Bottom Tier..

People that say Marth/Lucina are the same are just as stupid

You dont know how much difference F smash tipper makes..In one match I 2 stock a cloud main and in the other I barely hang on..Thats the difference between Lucina and Marth..

Lucina is terrible even if some people like to use her over Marth..

Marth got pretty ****ing nerfed to hell that he is low tier..

I am honestly suprised that Ganon and Link are so low when they always seemed to be good for me..

But I am judging from my FG experiences...In my experience every player that played Ruy against me was so trash I could 2 stock them with Bottom Tier Lucina

But apparently he is on par with Rosalina and ZSS and better than Cloud (A DLC character that really kicked my ass when he released on Smash 4)

 

I'd say this is pretty solid. Probably the most accurate tier list out there. The only two placements I really take issue with are Ryu and King Dedede. Ryu is good, but not THAT good, and Dedede, while not the best, is good enough to not be a bottom tier character

 

Can we at least make a push for matchup spreads to be a thing just like every previous Smash iteration? Just looking at it right now, I have no idea why Duck Hunt, for instance, is higher than those below him when there's no substantial spreadsheet of some sort that gives a little more insight into the character vs character, which is much more important than character placement. Because right now, I haven't a clear idea how ones spread is across the cast, whereas when I look up, say, Brawl Mario, I get a clear picture of why he is placed where he is in relation the rest of the cast.

 

Y'know what, I'm done. I'm going to like...
Actually do a lot of matches against people on Anther's and stuff.
Get on online tournaments, host online tournaments, etc.

I'm gonna do something to prove people Link's placement is wrong at the least.

Lol online.

That **** don't work here son LMAO

 

Can we at least make a push for matchup spreads to be a thing just like every previous Smash iteration? Just looking at it right now, I have no idea why Duck Hunt, for instance, is higher than those below him when there's no substantial spreadsheet of some sort that gives a little more insight into the character vs character, which is much more important than character placement. Because right now, I haven't a clear idea how ones spread is across the cast, whereas when I look up, say, Brawl Mario, I get a clear picture of why he is placed where he is in relation the rest of the cast.

Zareidriel did make a MU spread based on the opinions of each character board.

 

So uhhh.... official tier list made when 2 characters are being released in 2 days along with a patch that could have possible buffs/nerfs. Sounds smart to me.

 

seems ok to me

 

Robin is mid tier how is he bottom tier?

Who the **** thinks Robin is Bottom Tier..

People that say Marth/Lucina are the same are just as stupid

You dont know how much difference F smash tipper makes..In one match I 2 stock a cloud main and in the other I barely hang on..Thats the difference between Lucina and Marth..

Lucina is terrible even if some people like to use her over Marth..

Marth got pretty ****ing nerfed to hell that he is low tier..

I am honestly suprised that Ganon and Link are so low when they always seemed to be good for me..

But I am judging from my FG experiences...In my experience every player that played Ruy against me was so trash I could 2 stock them with Bottom Tier Lucina

But apparently he is on par with Rosalina and ZSS and better than Cloud (A DLC character that really kicked my *** when he released on Smash 4)

Using FG as a way gauge how good a character is LMAO

 

...31st. You tried, @Raziek, but it seems like we still can't overcome people's assumptions...

Crawling up there without even being among the top of standard deviation is more than i expected you to pull off tbh

 

Give or take a few spots, l think this tier list looks pretty decent. Not sure why people are complaining.

 

How is the ZSS matchup Ness's favor?

Ness can absorb her neutral b paralyzer safely every time. (He can also absorb her down smash, but that's far less safe and requires an extremely fast reaction time.) This changes the neutral significantly, as it forces her to approach in other ways. Ness's out of shield game is great, and if you dodge a grab attempt then you can tipper an fsmash for really early KOs. Ness also falls out of her UpB kills pretty easily if you know how to SDI.

Further, Ness can reliably intercept her down b with Flash to hilarious effect. She's also pretty gimpable with offstage PK Fire if you force her to recover low with Ness's dsmash or just footstool.

I could go on if you like. I feel like Ness has a lot of great answers to ZSS's shenanigans.

 

Lol online.

That **** don't work here son LMAO

What? It's not like I'm going to EVO or anything.
Oh wait...
I am. I am going to EVO this year and use Link as my main.

Besides, it's also not like I don't know how to play.
(We can ALWAYS test that out now.)

 

Radical Larry consists of 8.8% of the comments on this post at the time of writing this. The average commenter would be like 1% or less.

 

Humm, interesting. A far lower placement of Diddy than I would have sold him for, and meanwhile Ryu sits at 4th, which is slightly higher than I would have thought for him. Still, I love the effort that's gone into it. You guys are all great. <3

One thing I am curious about is WFT. The lady/dude has been getting top 32 at various nationals of late, so to see them lower than the likes of Robin and Bowser really surprises me.

 

...31st. You tried, @Raziek, but it seems like we still can't overcome people's assumptions...

Robin's placement seems fair to me. Maybe a tad low, but overall accurate. I would personally only move him up like 3 places.

 

Using FG as a way gauge how good a character is LMAO

I meant if I judged from my online matches then I would come to such a conclusion

Not that braindead to judge from FG or otherwise I would complain why Cloud doesnt have his own tier

Or why I even bother with Fox

 

LOL

no.

Zelda is useless. At least Brawler has great mobility which is great for a game like Sm4sh where it's very neutral heavy & fantastic frame data. Zelda has a recovery & many kill moves but little confirms into them (though Brawler is very much in the same boat here)

Shiek has mobility and has a hard time killing too.

 

What? It's not like I'm going to EVO or anything.
Oh wait...
I am. I am going to EVO this year and use Link as my main.

Besides, it's also not like I don't know how to play.
(We can ALWAYS test that out now.)

Good for you, want a cookie or something?

As much as I would love to, sadly time differences are a ***** & I will need a good sleep relatively soonish

 

Marc @Shaya
Calculating raw averages and standard deviations of placements isn't a great system, and I'd really like to see what the list would look like if you guys used a more mathematically sound system like the Perron-Frobenius theorem to make it.

Would you guys be interested in releasing the raw votes with everyone's name made anonymous? If you do so, I could run the calculation myself; if not, I could share the code I've written and help you guys run it.

 

Shiek has mobility and has a hard time killing too.

I thought the existence of the Downthrow 50/50 and BF means she doesn't have that hard a time killing?

 

Charizard, at least IMO, should probably not be below Dedede. Charizard has too much going on that at least lets him do decently in the competetive meta for him to be below default Brawler. :/ Dedede has a lot of problems that Charizard does not; horizontal recovery, for example.

It's a shame, too; if Charizard's air speed and jumps were solidly good, I'd bet he'd be considered at least mid-tier, but even as it is now, Charizard's not worse than King Dedede. The Charizard meta is underexplored, but I definitely think somewhere in mid-tier is a good place for him.

 

It was more along the lines of "Let's wait a week to see if any top (or top/upper high in this list's case) tier chars get nerfed" than anything else. If the top tiers are untouched, then you're right, it'll be a great list.

I personally think that if any of the top 5 were nerfed (especially Sheik) in frame data with any of their legit tools, then based on that principle alone the list would be shaken up a lot based on matchups alone. I, however, understand if a majority would disagree with this idea.

This list will be something we can look back at as a fairly accurate representation of competitive Smash 4 in 1.1.3, which in itself can be useful, despite not in the same way as a normal tierlist. It is more of a guide for "Lets be real, even with these changes it wont be THAT much different"