Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance | Final Chapter

[X1-12]

This is pointless so I'll drop it

 

[ranmaru]

Gee the thread is silent.

Nabe, FF, what do you think of the direction of Zen?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe: Why didn't you want GLG to answer some of the questions related to his scumpick? Should he be quiet and lay back now that we all know he is confirmed town? Isn't he a target now since everyone knows he is town?

In order:

• Because he's confirmed town and we don't need reads on him. Others answering questions is far more important -- he's in a position to be a man of action and take control of D2, which he was seemingly trying to do before he stopped posting altogether.
• No, he should be helping town find scum. But he shouldn't answer questions that can be left to other uncleared people.
• Yes.

@All: Zen's not going toDay. OS is the play, Ran is the fallback.

Nich, Zen has promised content toMorrow and I'm hoping he'll deliver. Do you not like an OS lynch? Why? What about a Ran lynch?

X1 and OS: there's been a lot of talk about timelines, 15 hours v. 96 hours or whatever. Get it cleared up with simple quotes -- each of you needs to quote the timeline you're talking about.

 

[X1-12]

Nabe read 1485.

OS is saying that because he explained that he had a read at T-15 hours, its only those 15 hours when he should have been pursuing Cdubs

Im saying that OS acknowledges the indy read at T-96 hours, so in all that time he should have been pursuing Cdubs

'T' is the post I call him out for not following up on Cdubs. T and T-96 are linked in post 1485

 

[Overswarm]

X1 is basically saying the moment I conceived that CDubs could be indie, I should have dropped everything and pursued him immediately

 

[X1-12]

X1 is basically saying the moment I conceived that CDubs could be indie, I should have dropped everything and pursued him immediately

If you could quote me saying this, that'd be great. Or you could stop bull****ting.

 

[Overswarm]

Im saying that OS acknowledges the indy read at T-96 hours, so in all that time he should have been pursuing Cdubs

Right above you.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@All: Zen's not going toDay. OS is the play, Ran is the fallback.

Did you READ the last votecount? Zen and OS are tied at 5 votes apiece. Ran has one. No, the Zen lynch is clearly possible.

Nich, Zen has promised content toMorrow and I'm hoping he'll deliver. Do you not like an OS lynch? Why? What about a Ran lynch?

The same way he promised content toDay on D1? And what happens on D3 when he claims roleblocked and promises D4 content? No, I don't like an OS lynch. Although he has been strawmanning X1 a little, he's been pretty townie through the game IMO, his interactions with Zen do not look AT ALL like a bus, and I'm pretty sure Zen is scum. Ran would be better than a no-lynch, but he's not likely.

X1 and OS: there's been a lot of talk about timelines, 15 hours v. 96 hours or whatever. Get it cleared up with simple quotes -- each of you needs to quote the timeline you're talking about.

I support this.

 

[X1-12]

Thats not really the same thing though is it.

Did I ever mention you dropping everything else? If yes quote it, if no stop bull****ting.

 

[X1-12]

@Nich: Strawmanning a little??? Like every defence post he tries to strawman or to quote false data.

I think I clear up the timelines like 5 posts above, in #1564

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nich, you're tunneling again. Zen isn't going toDay -- what votes he currently has are irrelevant. If you can't see why Zen needs to stick around, read my interactions with him all game. Your vote should be on OS or Ran -- you can't judge the lynch based on your own idea that Zen is scum and thus OS can't be.

Checking out 1485.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

'kay. OS, what's your own take on the timeframe here?
X1, boil down the case to like a short selling post for everyone.

 

[X1-12]

cant summarise well from phone in my current state, will do it properly tomorrow instead

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

That's fine.

Zen, post more.
Raz, post more.
FF, post more.
Luxor, post more.
GLG, post more.

RR, I think you missed my question about OS in post# IDRC. What do you think about him? Who's the lynch toDay?

 

[Xivii]

I now see what it is like to those when I get on them for not posting when they are likely just busy. It's so annoying. Definitely will be more open towards people not posting at certain times in mafia from now on.

A major problem people are having this game is describing why they think an actions makes someone scum. Nich does this all the time. Beat has done it multiple times. Luxor has done it. Ryu has done it. Ranmaru has done it. Raz has done it. Nabe has done it. People you can't just go from:

A. X has done this.
C. X is scum.

Many of you are completely missing B in your reasonings!

A. X has done this.
B. Scum would do this to blah blah blah.
C. X is scum.

Som many of the points are so blank this game and it's so frustrating. This is something that scum do because they know that no point they make is legit, so they have to just say things to get on wagons. The problem here is that so many people are doing this.

Also another thing that people keep saying is that they have a "gut feeling" or "vibe". **** your gut. (ew). Seriously that is so weak and is just as detrimental as going from A to C with your reasoning. The main person I see doing this is Luxor. I hate it so much. Mid D1 you were playing quite well, citing things and explaining your reasonings. But ever since the ending d1 you've been so baseless in your accisations. Your vibes mean nothing if you can't back it up with anything. beat you have done this as well. But you've still have been citing in most of your posts though I still see lack of (B) reasoning and some logic disconnections here and there, which I'll get to.

------

Ran still hasn't made that post I wanted to see yet. The content was very lacking from what he has posted and he isn't working on getting that post up yet. Not liking this at all.

I think he is trying to force town to ignore him seeing as he is staying low whenever another lynch pops up hoping that the heat dies down.





Your doing exactly what I questioned you for D1.

@Zen & Luxor: How can you guys take this so lightly, the second quote just looks mad scummy as is. I honestly can't see this as town play at all.

He's trying to make deals to get other people lynched and demanding other hop on just like with Gordy D1.

I doubt any of this is meta play or trying to get reads, this looks like pure scum to me.

People who I support a lynch: X1_12, Nich, Ranmaru

Castlevania
Youtube

Just skim X1's posts in these two recent games. You're wanting to lycnch him over something that is attributed to his playstyle. The point of mafia isn't to lynch someone because you don't like the way they play, it's to lynch someone because you think they are scum from their actions. You only lynch someone off of play that you believe indicates they are scum. What you're wanting to lynch X1 for does not indicate he is scum, it indicates that he has a playstyle that you don't agree with. Just looking at his posts in these two games will show you that his play here is not an indication of his alignment. It is simply the way he plays. It may be bad, but our goal isn't to correct bad players, it's to catch scum. If you feel that his playstyle is bad, it should be saved for post game and you should help him to try to approve it then outside of the game, not by lynching him. If you are town, you will take the time to simply review his posts in these two games which he was town in to show you that what you want to lynch him for are not scumtells, but simply the way he plays.

------

@Zen
I need to look over your case in more detail. However, my reasons for D1 were mainly focused on

a) Your odd interactions with Nabe and X1
b) Your bad case against me.

a) I need to look over more, but I can exapnd on b) a bit right now.

Basically, you going after me at the point that you did made PERFECT sense as scum.

You keep saying this. What you're saying right here is a scumtell. I've used this argument a couple of times as scum. Anything one does can be formed into a "what you've done makes perfect sense as scum!" argument. Scum use this this because they know who is town so they have to be like "look this makes sense!" It allows you limit recoil when your points are proven wrong or the mislynch does go through. I've used this same argument recently in Castlevania during 3 man lylo to paint it like each one of the dudes actions lined up as scum and just absolutely has to be scum. There is something majorly wrong with this though. Every action a scum player does isn't scummy. When looking for scum you can only pick out the few tells they give off, and then persue them on that. A scum players goal is to outlive so everything they do isn't going to be scummy. So the "everything lines up" argument doesn't really work. The only thing that makes me think this could come from you as town is because of your tunnel nature to see everything someone does as scummy when you think they are scum.

1) You know I'm a good player

No I don't. I've never said this nor implied this with any interation with you. You even said yourself during this game that I have heavily criticized you in the past. (I'm not saying you are a bad player, but I'm not seeing where you're getting this idea that I think you are a good player/threat. At least more than anyone else in the game.

Also by saying this you're completely contradicting your other point that I am targeting weak players. You're so full of bull.

2) You knew I was behind somewhat on the thread, thus making me an easier target

I'm not sure what to say to this. I didn't. How the heck am I suposed to argue against this?

3) There were 3 different people who had already voiced dislike for me (Beatstick, GLG, Raziek), meaning you'd get a nice quick wagon going.

So what?

There were also 3 people voiced dislike (and willingness to lynch) glg.
Many people (5 or so) who voiced dislike for Raz.
4 people who wanted Ran lynched at the time.
3 people expressing dislike for OS at the time.

Your point here has no value at all. You could say this about any wagon.

4) The other target for the day was Gord's playerslot, who was a rather weak player and VT. Plus, you'd already received heat for going after a weak player in early game (from Adum), so if you went full speed ahead on him, you'd look bad when he flipped town.

Hm, perhaps I would. But I wouldn't look any worse than if you flipped town especially if you flipped what you are claiming. So there is no point here either. And if I was really scum trying to get a quick mislynch as you are proposing I wouldn't have pushed for an extension. Luxor was first to request an extentions, but others just ignored it until I, the leader of your wagon seconded it. I wasn't 100% on your lynch and it was very last minute. I wanted to get more info before just lynching you with little amount of time. I did think you were the best at the given time though.

5) The case itself just wasn't satisfactory. The only legit point you made was me failing to deliver on the reread (basically inactivity), which isn't a surefire scumtell (else we'd have to lynch half the game!). That's just not enough reasoning for a townie, IMO.

My case had more merit than the case you are trying to make here.
These were all my points:

Spoiler

-He lacks any town motivation.
-All of his "reads" are only semi-persued.
-The only case he has made was on Raz. Such an easy case to make...
-He should have been more on glg for his all his bs but instead he is playing more to the flow rather than building much of his own (other than Raz which had been gone over plenty already).
-He avoids commenting on what's going on in the general mix, pops up here and to stay active.
-He accused me of tunneling Gord and then flipped when I gave some pretty ****y reasoning (from outside perspective) and took Gord as scum like it really was a strong case until I and others dropped attention from him. -Nich is trying to push the wagon on whoever he feels is the best chance at getting lynched. He told us himself that as scum he has attempted to put the attention on other lurkers, the "guys look I'm know im this, but playes X,Y,and Z are too!" defense.
-He switched to glg because I told him it was scummy not to be voting glg...

You keep saying that I made a point about you failing to deliver your reread, but I never said that. You made that point up all on your own and you keep using it as if I actually said it.

And one more based on D2 events,

6) You said there was one scum between me and GLG, and didn't want to lynch GLG because you thought I was it. Well, GLG's been lynched and flipped town, by that logic shouldn't you be even more on my case toDay? But no, it's like you forgot all about that.

I don't recall saying this either. If I did, can you quote it? Because I really don't remember saying this.

I didn't think glg was scum yesterday. I only felt Gordto was scum near the beginning of the day, but then dropped that for most of the day and leaned toward glg being town. So no I didn't think one of you had to be town. As for me not persuing you today, I pretty much explained that I didn't feel as strongly as I did about you d1. My response to Ryu asking me what I thought about you today: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12153364&postcount=1248

I came into the day asking you about you being roleblocked and biz and the details of your role to see if there were any inconsitancies and if you would slip up. You didn't so I was fine with you living.

---------

Zen, thanks for responding. Who's scum?

#1306. Not sure how you've missed who I think is scum.

He questions my reasoning saying that it is weak, how can he genuinely not know what "no genitalia" means when in a game I'm playing with him I have explained in detail how it is a common noobscum trait.

Did you say "no genitalia" exactly. Oh wait I think I know what you're talking about. I don't think this says anything though. I had no idea what you were talking about either when you said this.

TBH it's mostly a vibe I'm getting, compounded by you being relatively inactive. You hold double standards though, accusing OS of leading town by the nose while ignoring Zen doing the same thing yesterDay. You say things like "So i said, specifically the thing that he scummy against OS, is that he picked out something to call out as scummy against another player, that really isn't all that scummy." Everybody does that, I've done that (I was wrong about Vult obviously), and it's really not a big deal. I feel like you're doing, in that exact sentence, what you condemn (recursion kind of makes that sentence hard to read >_>) You also attack OS for accusing Gord- because the flip happened, we know he was town, and it's easy to say that everyone who was on his case was scum, when numerically they weren't. That's a couple quick points, quick quick points.

Vibes are useless. I've asked you multiple times to explain which posts of mine you don't like and whyyyyyyy. I wanted this yesterday when you were sayng you had a bad vibe from my late d1 play but you refuse to show which posts made you feel that way and why they did it. You've been playing so annoying lately. It's getting really hard to hold onto my town read on you because your being so backgroundy. You say things and don't back them up at all.

Then we have Raz. The fact that so many brush off his early D2 play as "so stupid his scum mates wouldn't allow it" makes me uncomfortable. I also dislike how he tried to change the focus from him to Luxor when he got a simple question.

Tbh my read on Raz isn't very strong. It's more like a small gut feeling, and I admit that I could be completely wrong about him. I'll be able to get stronger reads D3 (if I live that long lol).

This is MUCH better reasoning than your earlier reasoning that town wouldn't have his role. I said for you to choose someone else earlier because of that reasoning, but since you actually have logical reasoning it is fine.

He did make good posts D1 though, and I don't really see a connection between him and Ran, so Ranscum=prolly Raztown.

He didn't make good posts d1. Where are you getting this. Can you search his posts show me what you think was good?

Also dthe fact that you don't see a connection between them, is why you should think they could be scumbuddies. Scum try to avoid eachother because they don't want to bring attention to their scumbuddies. Clearing the other off this is bad. This is pro advice.

As for Zen, his entire D2 play has been a mixture of insults and random turn-arounds with his scum/town-reads. Most of his posts D2 comes off as weird to me, and I'm not sure whe're he's getting at. Still, he's promised to explain a lot after an eventual Ran lynch toDay, and he seems to be hinting a PR, so I don't think he's the play toDay. If Ran is scum we shouldn't lynch him at all imo.

What random turn-arounds?

Saying that I'm about ready to join nich on your wagon implies that what you were saying was scummy. Your reasoning was so off like you wanting to lynch Raz for the role he had. And something else that I forgot. I'll check after this because my CPU time is running low. My read on you fluxuated a bit, but that shouldn't be a scumtell to me. Town should have fluxation in their views because they don't know who is scum. Scum know everyone is town and thus likely to stick with reads even if evidence is presented against their reads.

I ask questions because something comes up in my mind that makes me want to know why they said/did something or just their thoughts.

Totally what I forgot what I was going to say to this post. will check later.

Make up your mind, lol. Stop contradicting yourself.

He wasn't making a contradiction at all. He was saying that you guys switched your views suddenly. And he was also saying that following blindly was bad in the first place. There's no contradiction.

I have said that I considered you null, not town. Null because you didn't post anything and I don't consider inactivity in of itself a straight scum tell, just calculated inactivity.

Pretty sure you had a town read near the end of d1. What made you change from town to null?

When did I abandon it? Is it because I'm not a one track mind?

The funny thing about this is that you really are one track minded. The only person that I think beats you in that is Nich out of anyone in Dgames.

You work on such a linear path. I agree with x1 that you can follow up on multiple things at one time. Like d1 all you did was talk about x1 and not believing his gambit. And you have to set certain times for asking and answer questions. I mean just look at all stars, you were willing to suicicde just to get someone to claim even though everyone felt they were town. Just wanted to point this out.

Things to quickly address.

About Zen. I think Zen is seriously hemorrhaging at the moment, foaming at the mouth and completely incapable of keeping his **** together. He started the game out being belligerant andseemingly anxious to lynch. I think he is excited to use some power role. I think he is an idiot. I think he is town.

That being said, there is no ****ing way he should be allowed into end game without some serious substantiating of his role claim shenanigans. May as well give him another day. I agree hes an idiot for the way that he handled himself. Lets see what he says day 3. I know "lol j/k guys no news today" is ****ty, and will be ****ty tomorrow. The reason I did not want to spell all of this out earlier is because, if he has a targeting role and gets blocked, by my line of logic if he continues offering nothing then we need to get rid of him.

Hater.

Why did you feel the need to say this?

Last sentence of the first paragraph in #1319.

-------

.

@Zen
Two questions.

1) Why haven't you answered this post:

Didn't have time. I said I would reply to everything when I could.

Additionally, why is your play this game so drastically different from your Mario Kart townplay?

It isn't.

I could see a x1/os team. I'd rather lynch X1 first.

This doesn't make any sense. Why would scum try to get eachother lynched all game?????

@X1: So you are pursuing OS. Give 1-2 reasons why he should die today. If his lynch got derailed, who would you lynch then? Why?

@OS: Who are your scumpicks? 2-3 please, with brief explanations.

You're not even reading.

Look, we need to get a wagon going on Zen NOW. He hasn't given us anything the past few RL days, despite posting extensively in another game. (I won't mention the name, because it's still ongoing, and that would be a bad idea...) I think he's scum hiding and just hoping his case will get lost in the X1 vs Overswarm debate. Just about EVERYTHING lines up to make it sense for him to be scum. Just look at the major cases he's pushed.

So yeah this a really **** move. I'min 5 ****ing games. I'm trying to keep up with all of them and it was easier to make the replies I did there. I said when I would post here, but you've been looking over that. You've called me out for not posting, but you've simply haven't been reading my posts.

Gord (weak player)
Me (lurking at the time, disliked by several people)
Ran (Quite a popular option, also fairly new)
and now he's hiding behind X1 on the Overswarm bandwagon. Despite making a show of being reckless town, nothing he's done has actually been THAT risky.

Explained this above.

Furthermore, there have been some inconsistencies in his play, like how he said there was one scum between me/GLG (and he was sure it was me), but after GLG flipped town D1, he forgot all about his suspicion on me. As town that makes 0 sense, but as the momentum had swung drastically in my favor, it makes perfect sense for him to back down at that point as scum.

Didn't say this. Also adressed above.

Not to mention the way he threw a fit when people were piling on him, and disappearing shortly afterwards. Yes, I grant townies do feel pressure from wagons (and occasionally lash out), and yes, I grant townies tend to be more active when under pressure, but both traits apply even more to scum, and just look at it. He was throwing a fit under only a few votes (I lashed out in one post at L-1 for comparison), and since then has uber-lurked (contrast to his super-active D1 play, when he wasn't under major suspicion.)

Null, like you said.

The pieces all fit, now let's finish the job by lynching this scum.

oh gawd

------

He didn't say anything about me after I responded to him.

Huh >_>?

He says he never claimed masons. He says that Luxor and Beat are ok following him because he knows he is town. But we don't know that. We don't know if that affects Beat's/Luxor's alignments.

what is your point here? I didn't claim Masons.

He would wait until I was lynched later because he knows I'll flip town. He wants to wait until D3 to possibly save himself. That is scummy.

Unvote: X1
Vote: Zen

???

What? He said If I flip town he would claim. Why not claim toDay?

Dude you're not reading my posts at all....

If you flipped scum, then there would be no reason to think I was scum so there would be no reason for me to claim. If you flipped town, then the points made against me would stay, thus I would need to claim as promised. Simple logic.

-------

No, you're not scummy for that because you clearly had reasoning behind it, and you never had me as a high scumpick in the first place. (iirc, you only voted me because you didn't want a no-lynch and were pretty sure GLG was town.) Zen on the other hand, had me as his #1 scumpick, raged about me for half of D1, and then acts like it never actually happened toDay.

I had reasoning as well. Not wanting to no lynch is not more valid than actually making a case. wut.

The key difference here is Overswarm. You've taken a risky action with it, confronting an established veteran head on with a huge case. Zen just goes "Oh, X1 will help me lynch Ran if I join the Overswarm bandwagon today, sure, why not?". There's a big difference in how risky the action is.

I've mentioned multiple times that I think OS is scummy and have been since yesterday. you're just not reading. Also are you not an established veteran and supposedly a good player? You're so dam contradictory.

 

[Xivii]

Not checking for typos or anything in that so meh.

Thoughts on X1 v OS coming next. Needed to post that before the library CPU shut down though. Still think OS should be the play I think. Thought I disagree with a few points x1 has made.

 

[Xivii]

Actually not sure on OS. Need to sort it out.

 

[Xivii]

The same way he promised content toDay on D1? And what happens on D3 when he claims roleblocked and promises D4 content?

Scum wont roleblock me. If they do, then at least you or someone else can use your ability. Scum wont NK me either because of all the pressure against me. Even if I am roleblocked, I'm claiming tomorrow regardless. I think my claim alone will clear things up.

 

[Cdubs1987]

OS, its been fun. I think I see your plan.

Guys, quick post, will post more later. Not sure why X1 is on crack, but I am fairly certain OS is scum.

Here goes, OS says

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cdubs
It will be interesting to see if adum was abducted or jan'd but we'll figure that out as days go by.
Quote:

The only way there is a vig and no sk is if Adum was Jan'd and not abducted, unless the mafia kill was blocked. But I will agree with the current info it seems unlikely there is a "vig with balls" in the game.

If you're in a room full of people, and you know one of them has been involved in something, when they pop up and say things like the above, it should stand out.

You basically decided to make a statement on the abductor that said.... nothing. All it does is say "well, there might be an abductor but we'll see! Carry on, folks". There's no reason for anyone other than the abductor to say that.

in his 1379

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12176529&postcount=1379

So basically he is saying, "hey, you pointed out the abductor, implying you were the abductor". I mentioned to him before, that the first person to mention the abductor possibility was Frozen.

So I explain to him why I did this in my #1384

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12177019&postcount=1384

I explain why I mentioned potential sk and abductor, essentially tagging along to the earlier sentiments of FF.

So OS and I keep dialogu-ing, etc. etc. Then X! says "OMG YOU SCUM YOU NO PERSUE READ ON CDUBS". OS, then says, he is still convinced I am an indie.

In my 1459, I ask

Please respond to my 1384.

OS does not do so. In his 1498 he says

CDubs is on my radar as an indie... as posted earlier.

Nothing immediately after my 1384 really reeks of him thinking I am still indie, I think it is convenient for him to say he still thinks I am indie. I have explained to OS, in two different ways, why his initial reads, his basis, for having indie reads on me were bad. Unless my responses to you are the "new" reasoning he thinks I am Indie, I don't believe he thinks I am indie at all. OS is too smart for that.

Why would OS say I am Indie without adding new reasoning to his previously explained reasons? Because if the town bites, then even after he is lynched, any potential lynches that can distract the town away from scum are good for scum. I don't think OS truly believes I am Indie. I do believe he will attempt to claim that my response indicates that I am Indie.

I think OS is scum trying to lay the groundwork to distract town away from scum

Vote OS, look at my posts, look at our interactions.

 

[Nicholas1024]

*snip*
You keep saying this. What you're saying right here is a scumtell. I've used this argument a couple of times as scum. Anything one does can be formed into a "what you've done makes perfect sense as scum!" argument. Scum use this this because they know who is town so they have to be like "look this makes sense!" It allows you limit recoil when your points are proven wrong or the mislynch does go through. I've used this same argument recently in Castlevania during 3 man lylo to paint it like each one of the dudes actions lined up as scum and just absolutely has to be scum. There is something majorly wrong with this though. Every action a scum player does isn't scummy. When looking for scum you can only pick out the few tells they give off, and then persue them on that. A scum players goal is to outlive so everything they do isn't going to be scummy. So the "everything lines up" argument doesn't really work. The only thing that makes me think this could come from you as town is because of your tunnel nature to see everything someone does as scummy when you think they are scum.

Just because you've used an argument as scum in the past doesn't make that argument invalid. I know that a scum player's goal is (usually) to survive, and your entire program has been based towards that. Think about it.

Activity (Aside from the past bit under pressure): check.
Plenty of contributions: check.
No actual cases made against people likely to fight back: check.

No I don't. I've never said this nor implied this with any interation with you. You even said yourself during this game that I have heavily criticized you in the past. (I'm not saying you are a bad player, but I'm not seeing where you're getting this idea that I think you are a good player/threat. At least more than anyone else in the game.

Actually, it's the context of the game that makes my point valid. Look at the other players in this game. The vast majority of them are newbies. Cdubs, Red Ryu, Gord/GLG... I'm not a star player when compared to (active) frozenflame and the like, but for the purposes of this game I am (or at least can be) one of the better townies.

Additionally, you know I'm dangerous with my tunneling, you saw that when I spearheaded both the D1 and D2 mario kart lynches.

Also by saying this you're completely contradicting your other point that I am targeting weak players. You're so full of bull.

I said you were going after easy targets. Considering the circumstances (Me promising a reread but failing to deliver, meaning I was SERIOUSLY behind on the thread, and several players with voiced dislike for me), I was definitely an easy target at that point.

However, I appreciate your blatant strawman. It helps prove other your scumminess to other players.

I'm not sure what to say to this. I didn't. How the heck am I suposed to argue against this?

Yes you did. To claim you didn't is a ridiculously blatant lie, simply by the fact that I promised the reread and never delivered, with just several in between posts to stay contributing. For crying out loud, YOU USED THOSE POINTS AGAINST ME! How on earth can you PRETEND you didn't know this?!?

So what?

Again, the point was to prove I looked like an easy target when you started your wagon.

There were also 3 people voiced dislike (and willingness to lynch) glg.
Many people (5 or so) who voiced dislike for Raz.
4 people who wanted Ran lynched at the time.
3 people expressing dislike for OS at the time.

You know, (aside from the Raz one) you're proving MY points (in regard to you going after easy wagons). I appreciate it.

Your point here has no value at all. You could say this about any wagon.

Sure... after the wagon's started! However, not necessarily AS the wagon starts. See my pushes in Mario Kart mafia, or EE's case on Virg in the Unintended consequences endgame.

Hm, perhaps I would. But I wouldn't look any worse than if you flipped town especially if you flipped what you are claiming. So there is no point here either. And if I was really scum trying to get a quick mislynch as you are proposing I wouldn't have pushed for an extension. Luxor was first to request an extentions, but others just ignored it until I, the leader of your wagon seconded it. I wasn't 100% on your lynch and it was very last minute. I wanted to get more info before just lynching you with little amount of time. I did think you were the best at the given time though.

The options were between townie A and townie B. Regardless of which one got lynched, you won. Besides, how scummy is it to push against an extension when one is CLEARLY needed? (Hint: VERY) You'd have gotten some major heat for that, (especially considering you LED the last minute wagon) so it wouldn't have been worth it.

My case had more merit than the case you are trying to make here.
These were all my points:

Spoiler

-He lacks any town motivation.
-All of his "reads" are only semi-persued.
-The only case he has made was on Raz. Such an easy case to make...
-He should have been more on glg for his all his bs but instead he is playing more to the flow rather than building much of his own (other than Raz which had been gone over plenty already).
-He avoids commenting on what's going on in the general mix, pops up here and to stay active.
-He accused me of tunneling Gord and then flipped when I gave some pretty ****y reasoning (from outside perspective) and took Gord as scum like it really was a strong case until I and others dropped attention from him. -Nich is trying to push the wagon on whoever he feels is the best chance at getting lynched. He told us himself that as scum he has attempted to put the attention on other lurkers, the "guys look I'm know im this, but playes X,Y,and Z are too!" defense.
-He switched to glg because I told him it was scummy not to be voting glg...

You keep saying that I made a point about you failing to deliver your reread, but I never said that. You made that point up all on your own and you keep using it as if I actually said it.
I don't recall saying this either. If I did, can you quote it? Because I really don't remember saying this.

The vast majority relate to me lurking/not contributing much, which is DIRECTLY related to me not following up on the reread. (Because, if I followed up on the reread, that would be CONTRIBUTION.) The vote switch one is out and out false, while a couple others apply to you as well. (Like the easy case one and the unpursued reads.)

I didn't think glg was scum yesterday. I only felt Gordto was scum near the beginning of the day, but then dropped that for most of the day and leaned toward glg being town. So no I didn't think one of you had to be town. As for me not persuing you today, I pretty much explained that I didn't feel as strongly as I did about you d1. My response to Ryu asking me what I thought about you today: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12153364&postcount=1248

Caught you in an out and out lie.

I never said Town Nich ever.
I haven't pushed hard on glg since he replaced in.
I don't have a town read on glg. He's a scummy player. I'd only have a town read on him if you flip scum. You're scummier to me.

So, basically, you thought there was one scum between me and GLG.

I came into the day asking you about you being roleblocked and biz and the details of your role to see if there were any inconsitancies and if you would slip up. You didn't so I was fine with you living.

And what happened to your mountain of suspicion D1? It all just went away? Not to mention that there wouldn't have been any inconsistencies even if I made it up as scum. (Because as mafia, I'd KNOW the mafia/non-mafia ratio on the lynch. Or I could make something up and you wouldn't find out until much later.)

I'll get to the rest later.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm trying to get people to jump on an unexplained lynch.

Why is that scummy, talk about INTENT. Think about why players do what they do, what they can gain as either faction.

There's no guarantee I will follow up on my promise.

Why is that scummy, talk about INTENT. Think about why players do what they do, what they can gain as either faction.


Here: tell my why this isn't a perfectly good explanation:

I was busy when playing the game, bumping along as I could without time to write a large post but I had a read that OS was scum so I ask others to vote for him. Several others do. I then get more free time and make a good case on Overswarm

Another exercise: Write what you think might be my thought process as I did all those actions which you didn't like. Then before you post it, read it and see how far-fetched it is. If you think its not then post it.

1) You leading town to do something for no reason outside of you calling them scum.

2) This can be you leading town to go for mislynches if you are scum, which I do think you are.

You went for a target and tried to lead town to follow suit without explaining it.

RR, I think you missed my question about OS in post# IDRC. What do you think about him? Who's the lynch toDay?

Oh my bad, sorry.

I got null on OS atm, him going against X1 is great and I approve.

He seems very well set on putting forth logical arguments and when he scum hunts he does more than, "He's scum I'll make deals to get other people lynched."

As much as I want X1 lynched he may not be the play for today. Not sure if Zen is either because of how I don't think he is scum unless X1 flips scum per say. Still he has been far more scummy in actions than OS, his play seemed to jump around more and more as the game went on.

Also his defense of X1 annoys me.

Castlevania
Youtube

Just skim X1's posts in these two recent games. You're wanting to lycnch him over something that is attributed to his playstyle. The point of mafia isn't to lynch someone because you don't like the way they play, it's to lynch someone because you think they are scum from their actions. You only lynch someone off of play that you believe indicates they are scum. What you're wanting to lynch X1 for does not indicate he is scum, it indicates that he has a playstyle that you don't agree with. Just looking at his posts in these two games will show you that his play here is not an indication of his alignment. It is simply the way he plays. It may be bad, but our goal isn't to correct bad players, it's to catch scum. If you feel that his playstyle is bad, it should be saved for post game and you should help him to try to approve it then outside of the game, not by lynching him. If you are town, you will take the time to simply review his posts in these two games which he was town in to show you that what you want to lynch him for are not scumtells, but simply the way he plays.

Seems somewhat consistent, but in this game the way he has played has been pretty scummy in the methods and reasoning he gave.

Compare Gordy to OS, he claimed one was a read while the other was following a lynch, to me it seems like he is making up reasoning to get away with fast lynches.

~

Right now, I'm looking at X1 and Zen for the lynch today. Also lynching Zen could prove if the masion thing he said about X1 is true, which more so leads me to think of scum buddies more so than being town.

 

[Cdubs1987]

@Red Ryu and Nich

How do you guys feel about my #1579 and my case against OS?

Same question goes to everyone really, only person I really wanna see talk about it is Luxor.

 

[Xivii]

Nich: That doesn't say that I thought one of you had to be scum. It says that I felt both of you were scummy. I said if you flipped scum then I would have a town read on him (because of your back and forth). That doesn't mean I would automatically think the other was scum if one flipped town. That's not a good way to think. That's your own screwed up way of thinking.

Ryu: -_- ur so intransigent

 

[Luxor]

Sorry for inactivity, on vacation at the Matterhorn right now. Pretty legit, actually. In Switzerland they give you a week off in February just so you can ski lol.

@All: Zen's not going toDay. OS is the play, Ran is the fallback.

Nich, you're tunneling again. Zen isn't going toDay -- what votes he currently has are irrelevant. If you can't see why Zen needs to stick around, read my interactions with him all game. Your vote should be on OS or Ran -- you can't judge the lynch based on your own idea that Zen is scum and thus OS can't be.

Checking out 1485.

I'm confused by these posts. After tunneling Zen for two Days, you think he's somehow town? I kind of skimmed the last few pages so maybe I'm missing something here. An explanation would be appreciated.

Bigger post coming later because I'm not skiing today.

 

[Rajam]

Catching up

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12181156&postcount=1415

This is a lot of bla bla bla but I'll try to address some points here:

I don't think Raz should die. Zen I would like to die. You/Luxor I would like dead.

Why? Details please

No, GLG. I think X1 should die for that, not RAZ. I mean, srs, X1's reasoning was soooooooooooooo stupid.



I'd much rather lynch X1. GLG please vote X1. If not, Zen is better than OS.

Although I do see a possibility of X1/OS.

Same question as before. Don't throw unfounded statements around



Yes, I do.

Why do you think OS is avoiding you about your questions regarding me, Rajam?

Because after I made my case on you/Glyph Day 1 OS said my case needed some thought, without adding further comment. Some time later I started to ask him about you/Glyph and my case and he never answered, that's why I said later OS was evading my questions regarding this

Answers in this color. Ranmaru how the hell can you see a X1/OS connection? care to explain, since I think it's pretty obvious the opposite

I share BeatStick reads of if you're scum, then probably either X1 or OS is scum, but not both. They've been discussing the whole game and I could hardly believe they've some connection (ie. both being mafia). If you flip town, then I'll assume the pressure on me because I've been the whole game on your case but I'd also like to ask people to focus on Zen and BeatStick as well, specially Zen because I feel he is using my same cases mostly to be on your case

X1 your play style is just a bunch of stubbornness. Your attitude of not explaining your reads is some easy way for scum to "scumhunt" if you actually say that you want to provoke and gauge reactions meanwhile you just don't explain your thought proccess and what exactly you see scummy, not giving details. While checking the vote resume (http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12147651&postcount=1198) it's pretty obvious you are being stubborn; for both deadlines you left your vote unchanged several days before actual deadline. idk if being this stubborn is a town or scum read but certainly your attitude of not explaining or not making cases in detail help little and can be an easy way for scum to give the impression of scum-hunting. So next times you order someone to vote for certain player, or send someone to shut-up, or say you got a town/scum read on someone, please at least explain yourself.

 

[Overswarm]

Oh holy geeze.

I'm back at work and have a bit of reading to do prior to making posts.

We might need another deadline extension if Zen isn't the play for toDay, but while I do my read I have a question for everybody:

@all
If you had a suspicion of independent alignment on someone, do you believe they should take precedence as a "greater threat" and should be the play for that Day?

 

[X1-12]

Rajam I've explained every one of my reads toDay I'm pretty sure, can you comment on something thats happened at least semi-recently?

 

[Overswarm]

Posting as I read and rearranging, apologies if things are out of chronological order

@OS: What do you think X1 is trying to pin on you? I mean, I figure he thinks you are lying, so why do you think he would think you would lie about you following up or not following up on your Cdubs read?

I don't even know. If he's scum, he picked someone he thought he could use as a target and failed miserably. If he's town, I think his thought process was something along the lines of:

X1: I think OS is scum
X1: He posted something about CDubs being indie
X1: He isn't asking questions directly to CDubs
X1: Scum would do that
X1: I think scum is OS because he didn't post on CDubs

and didn't stop to think "oh, Town could do that too". Or even that if I was scum, having an indie read and not following it wouldn't be scummy... because independents are, well, independent.

It doesn't make any sense, so I can't really fathom anything other than alterior motives or name-brand stupidity.

OS: Talk about X1's read on me.

If he's town, I think he decided you were scum a while ago, and is simply looking to find things that could fit there. Do you not find it odd that he included you as one of my "possible scummates", despite there not really being any reason for that? He refuses to give a reason other than "I think OS is scum and it appears that you're trying to diffuse the situation, so you must be scum" which is kind of putting the cart before the horse.

On the other hand, if he's scum, I don't think he actually knows how to defend himself at this juncture other than to repeat himself and pressure other people. He's deliberately left holes in his reasoning throughout the game with reasoning so shallow as "I don't have time to do it", making it impossible to know what he's thinking as town unless it is in his limited focus.

That's one of the big problems I have with reading X1. He's easy to catch once you find his scummates, but his lack of strategy and/or finesse with how he plays makes it difficult to discern between the two. It's like the guy getting caught saying "bomb" in an airport dealing with TSA security; anyone observing can say "oh, he just said the word, no big deal" but the TSA security is harassing him nonstop and going ape**** over it because they think they might have something.

I was busy when playing the game, bumping along as I could without time to write a large post but I had a read that OS was scum so I ask others to vote for him. Several others do. I then get more free time and make a good case on Overswarm

I'd like to note that he was pushing for me long before the CDubs thing and then decided to make a case on me about me not pressuring CDubs in a 15 hour period. It very much appears that X1 decided I was scum prior to any real reason, and then LOOKED for a reason afterwards. This is known as tunneling, and doesn't help town.

You because I think you're scummy anyway (no, don't ask me for reasoning right this second because its not you I want lyched toDay, nor do I have time to do it) and because of posts like the one I quoted, it looks as though you are trying to diffuse this situation between me and OS, presumably because you are trying to save one of us from the lynch.

I don't like this post. "I think you're scummy, but don't ask me for reasoning" is the most anti-town thing you can do. Knowing someone's reasoning is how you catch them as scum. X1 keeps saying "think about INTENT guys, come on!" but refuses to tell us his own intentions. When confronted about his actions, he says "Why would I do that if I were scum" which is nothing but a WIFOM defense, rather than a defense itself.

I still don't know if this means he is scum or just playing very poorly.

Rajam because in his #1120 he votes OS for what seems like a not genuine reason, he says we should look at those who almost provoked a NL, and then votes OS for narrowing down the Lynch candidates - something which is actually good at stopping a NL. He also then unvotes later which makes it look like a distancing vote.

I ask X1, quite jokingly, why he didn't drop everything to attack Rajam the moment he conceived he could be scummy. Here, his reasoning as to why he could consider him scummy is that Rajam is lying and/or mistaken with his reasoning. Concludes distancing could occur there.

Point about Rajam - not true. I said he could be your scumbuddy distancing because of that post. Its not making him scummy until you flip scum. Its also pretty clear that between that point and this I've been busy dealing with your bull****.

Here, X1 grudgingly admits that being busy with something else is a legitimate excuse for not pressuring a scum read... despite saying I'm scummy for not pressuring CDubs over a short time frame where I am instead answering other people's questions and pressuring Zen. That's an interesting contradiction.

In addition to this, his reasoning on Rajam has changed. Now he doesn't care about Rajam having faulty reasoning for his vote... he just considers it a distancing thing, which was secondary to his reasoning in the quote just prior.

Do you think Raz agreed with your plan too easily?

No. It's a legitimate plan. We shouldn't all tell him our abilities and funnel them through him, but GLG can be used to confirm things and any plan that involves GLG calling the shots can't be used in scum's favor. As a precautionary measure, it's pretty straight forward and logical.

@Everyone: If GLG dies instead of Raz, would that make you doubt his claim? Wouldn't it make sense for scum to kill Raz instead of GLG?

WIFOM. You get no discernable information from it.

Now I can't say I'm happy with X1, but he isn't the play for toDay. I think he needs to post his reasoning every time he votes and not be quite as stubborn. I think finding X1's connections will easily determine his alignment down the road.

That said?

Nich: No-one other than you has expressed any interest in Lynching Zen iirc, yet several others have expressed interest (via votes) that they want OS gone. Why the hell are you saying our target isn't being lynched toDay

That's odd. Zen has a lot of votes on him and X1 posts this just after Ran and Nich talk about Zen. Why is X1 defending Zen so visibly?

Ran thats the worst reasoning ever to jump on someone's wagon.

Again.

Because its better to not claim right away? Why should he potentially out a PR right away?

Good advice, except Zen has been a target for a while now and has hinted heavily at having a power role, so scum already know it. This seems like an obvious defense, and one that doesn't hold too much weight in context.

GLG will go to OS, so will Beat probably. Rajam is a floater like you, but at that point OS will be L-2 and Zen will be L-3, and it makes sense to go OS because it will avoid NL - Rajam has already posted his views on those who's actions which may help lead to NL. At that point Zen is still at L-3 but OS is at L-1. It then makes no sense for you to stay voting Zen when someone who you also want dead is at L-1, and the deadline is approaching.

Then some theory-crafting on what other people will do with their votes...

8 people

thats enough to lynch

so you saying "your target isn't being lynched toDay"

that's basically a lie

More stubborn defense of Zen


Now this entire time, Zen hasn't been posting. He DID disappear off the map as Nich claimed earlier...

Euug. Everytime I'm about done catching up, a new page pops up. I'm at #1351 right now and replying to everything I missed. Hold up.

And comes back right as pressure starts to build on him again. That's convenient.

Just skim X1's posts in these two recent games. You're wanting to lycnch him over something that is attributed to his playstyle. The point of mafia isn't to lynch someone because you don't like the way they play, it's to lynch someone because you think they are scum from their actions. You only lynch someone off of play that you believe indicates they are scum.

Then Zen finally makes an actual post and... defends X1?

You keep saying this. What you're saying right here is a scumtell. I've used this argument a couple of times as scum. Anything one does can be formed into a "what you've done makes perfect sense as scum!" argument. Scum use this this because they know who is town so they have to be like "look this makes sense!" It allows you limit recoil when your points are proven wrong or the mislynch does go through.

Does anyone else realize Zen could be saying both of those quotes to X1, yet he isn't?

While reading the post, I'm noticing an astonishing lack of content.

#1306. Not sure how you've missed who I think is scum.

That's in response to Nabe simply saying "Zen, who's scum". This, like X1's play, is incredibly scummy. He's deliberately withholding reads from town and avoiding key questions, then writing a bunch about nothing important.

This doesn't make any sense. Why would scum try to get eachother lynched all game?????

WIFOM, and another defense of X1. "They can't BOTH be scum silly! It's just OS."

So yeah this a really **** move. I'min 5 ****ing games. I'm trying to keep up with all of them and it was easier to make the replies I did there. I said when I would post here, but you've been looking over that. You've called me out for not posting, but you've simply haven't been reading my posts.

Appeal to Emotion.

*reads previous pages*

No, no, Zen's right. You haven't done ****. You found a good time to hide away and you hid; you don't get any slack for being in 5 games.


Looking in the previous Day, you've posted quite a bit, but most of it is fluff. There's some interesting tidbits though.

Nabe I can clear someone as town or scum by tomorrow.

This didn't pan out. Now he's saying "wait til D3"?


This one's golden:

Nich, why did you come here, view glg's post and not respond to it?

I don't like this. People have **** to do. Sometimes they want to read a few posts and come back later when they have more time to formulate a response. This isn't evidence for anything, and it puts undue pressure on actual townies who are just busy. You've been doing this gusto thing a lot, try to keep your cool.

FoS: Zen

You really think I care why they view and leave? All I care about is their response, duh. Scum are scum so they will be weary of everything they do and respond in excuse form. Town just don't think anything of it. At least that's the basic read.

Why are you making so many excuses yourself, Zen?

It was pretty obvious from the beginning that x1 was only on the (Gordito; ed) wagon for pressure and reads.

He's been defending X1 since the beginning.

@Zen
Why do you keep defending X1 at every turn?
What has X1 done that you think is scummy?

Hey look, more lulz:

I think the extra discussion time cpuld be useful. Zen, I'll take another look at Nich and see if his lynch is acceptable unto me during chemistry in like an hour.

Got some school work to do now. Will try to make a decision after that.

Beat & Lux: Time is no excuse.

Okay, okay, less fun more serious stuff:

100% Town
X1

Town Pile
Ran o-o
Luxor
Beat
Rajam
Adum
Raz

Eh
FF

^Want to Live

vWant to Die

Useless Pile
Nabe

Scummies
cdubs
glg
Ryu
Vult
OS


Scum
Nich

100% town @ X1? Weird.

Still I don't think he is a good lynch target, then again I'm also talking to the guy who thinks X1-12 is 100% town, what gives? Why are you so confident in thinking he is town?

Ryu it should be pretty obvious why I know someone is 100% town -_-.

RANDOM ASIDE:

Actually if there a multiple mafia factions then I take back what I said about NichTown

Um... excuse me for not quite following you, but why is that?

If I said intuition, would that do?

>:[

Answer your questions X1, give reads. Stop making excuses and giving BS answers.

BACK TO THE ZEN SHOW:

I really don't think we should lynch Zen. He's implied more than once that he and x1 are masons or some kind of similar role, and I don't want to lynch someone who could potentially be cleared as confirmed town.

Here's the start of like the 3rd mason-talk with Zen

I don't really think it was necessary to call attention to that, Beat, that's a bit scuzzy.

Lol at the sudden rush and everybody now liking a Zen lynch. What changed? You're bringing up the same things I brought up 100+ posts ago. I don't know if you're skimming or scum (except GLG whose middle name is "Skimmy Jim") but get your heads out of your *****. This cannot have just occurred to you people now.

Lynch Nich. Raz can also go. Zen is not the play toDay. You're too late to that party.

FoS: Nabe, defending Zen

Yeah me and Zen are good friends


lol.

Que?

*I'm really not a fan of Zen's play but since he's implying he's a mason w/ X1 I guess we need the cop to investigate them. Or something.

Zen's scumminess comes from his constant anti-town play (pushing towards a no-lynch with every one of his actions, making 180º turns, soft claiming things like mason for no reason, super aggression to try to prevent people to attack him, attacking anyone who pressures him, etc., etc.

Well we all seem to think you've claimed masons somehow, Zen.

Oh yeah btw Nabe I will lynch Zen with you toMorrow.

u trollin' or wat? Zen implies you two are masons,YOU implied you two were masons, and you say you'll lynch your masonbuddy? Explain please.

(x1 town really should be taken as fact especially if I'm not around in the future).

This keeps coming up, and neither X1 nor Zen say anything about it.


More importantly, I keep finding **** like this:

You actually think RR is scum after his #863? He remains consistent even after he realizes he had the players mixed up. Please tell me you see this?

And stop being a **** for no reason.

I ain't sure on RR, but its much ****ing better than Ranmaru. How can you tell me to stop being a ****? This game you have on at least two occasions said I have done things which I have not or put words in my mouth, and not only me either. You also claim to have great meta on gordito but then come to a completely incorrect conclusion about his play based on a case of complete bull****.

I'm the only reason why you're alive. If you were competent enough to actually play like a town player, I wouldn't have to speak for you.

My case on Gord was bad, but it got things going. I wouldn't make such a case at a time like this.

Please cut the bull****. You being in this game has nothing to do with me being alive, in fact you've only made me look worse by being there and giving others the impression that I could be in any way related to your absolute bull**** case. Do not act as though its the right thing to do when you speak for me. Its scummy as **** and only is there to confuse town. When you are saying I said things that I didn't, you only succeed in making yourself look scummy and confusing town.

Your case on Gord wasn't just bad, it was fundamentally full of crap and I'm pretty sure you knew it too.

This screams of distancing to me; I find little quarrels and spats like that that LOOK like they are arguing with one another, but they're not actualyl talking much about mafia. They're just... posting. About each other. When it is about things in the game, it's about stuff that happened long, long ago.

This isn't a new thought process by me, btw:

I'm now confused about several things in regards to X1-12 and Zen. Will reread and comment tomorrow.

And more:

X1 how can you think this guy is town. Your noobdar fails...

Anyone else notice they've been more personal when talking to each other? This is not genuine mafia discussions.

3)The Zen/X1/Nabe triangle needs further investigation. Nabe was after Zen earlier, but when momentum swung on Zen he backed off, which is odd. Similarly, the Zen/X1 mason possibility is really odd, considering how X1 is perfectly willing to go after Zen tomorrow.

Dun dun dunnnnn... more mason talk.

B. Because if one IS town, we can (depending on the wording of the implied mason PM) confirm the other one as well. If one's scum... the other is scum, pretty much. One of them being a godfather would screw this up, though.

He is viewing the thread. I agree, Cop should investigate me.

>:[



Then at the end of the day?

@Luxor: I'm not in a mason or anything of the sort with Zen.

Well that's odd. I guess I'll have to go back and check the thre-

oh wait, no, Luxor already did it.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12099543&postcount=1041

Luxor such as? Also neither me or x1 is being lynched today because I can prove we are town so you are wasting our time and derailing from the best lynch we have.

X1 100% town in his own tier of towniness

Yeah me and Zen are good friends

lol.

You've been somewhat anti-Zen ever after "me and Zen are good friends," and I'm confused in any case. Zen has also totally refrained from denying that you two are masons. If you're not restricted from doing so, tell us what's going on with you two. I posted a while back that it almost seemed like you two were "suicidal lovers" (one wins if both survive, one wins if both die). I meant it as a joke, but it fits the situation almost perfectly in my eyes (Zen being non-suicidal, you being suicidal).

X1's response:

I was thinking about fakecrumbing mason with Zen but now I realise he is scum so its a bad idea.

Zen should not be copped.

OS/Raz/Adum/FF should be copped imo

Hmmm....



ANOTHER ASIDE:

imo we should look at the people who almost provoked a no lynch Day 1, both times (before and after the deadline extension), and people who reduced it to "Nich or glg" (*looks at OS*)

vote: OS

I just read this more closely. WTF at X1 pressuring him thinking Rajam is mistaken. He wasn't, I DID reduce it to "nich or GLG", you can see that clearly. I was right in doing so though, so no big deal.

What caught you was "we should look at the people who almost provoked a no lynch Day 1" and thought it applied to me when it clearly didn't in Rajam's post.




X1-12 and Zen have both been pretty scummy, but Zen is the play for toDay. I can see X1 possibly being stupid enough to fake-crumb / fake-claim masons with Zen, or even more stupidly start to do so then stop halfway. It's entirely possible that they are scum and were planning some sort of fake mason claim, but either way I can't single in on X1 from all this.

From Zen though? Zen I can.

unvote
vote: Zen

Zen has been pretty consistently anti-town, and I do agree with his disappearance (and reappearance) being incredibly well-timed for his position. His play reeks of survival and he continually ignored major talking points on D1 like him potentially being a Mason. He's claimed "x1 is 100% town for sure" on DAY ONE repeatedly and has come up with nothing on D2 and his actual content has been lacking anything but survivalist tendencies.

Zen is the play for toDay.



@mod prod Frozen Flame plox
@mod request votecount

@Luxor

Cdubs is unreadable, unknowable, untraceable, unlikeable, unhateable, unsafe, unkillable. Getting stuff out of him is one of my priorities toMorrow.

What happened to this?


@Zen

Do you think X1-12 is scummy? Why or why not?

@X1-12

Do you still think Zen is scummy? Why or why not? If not, what changed from D1?

 

[Xivii]

OS, it's been made pretty clear that x1 is town to me. Finding out that x1 is scum this game would be like finding out that the sun doesn't rise in the morning.

 

[Xivii]

Request Deadline Extension.

 

[X1-12]

I really don't think its worth using another deadline extension toDay, especially since we only have two left and this is a large game

 

[X1-12]

Will post in a couple of hours with stuff

 

[Overswarm]

OS, it's been made pretty clear that x1 is town to me. Finding out that x1 is scum this game would be like finding out that the sun doesn't rise in the morning.

Don't go too far into the northern or southern hemisphere then.

Also, it doesn't rise. It's just the earth's movement making it appear as if it is.

*glare*

Why do you think X1 is town?

 

[Xivii]

Meta more or less.

x1 has come to be the easiest for me to read on Dgames. I think I've been in about 9 or so games with him so I have good grasp on his playstyle and the kind of scum tells that he exhibits as scum. And it shows in recent games that I am creditable to this. I have been correct on his alignment in NBC, SC, and Youtube (Though I wasn't in that one, but I read through) while most players had an opposing opinion. I'm not sure what it is about x1 that makes people think he is the opposite alignment than he is. When he is scum, it's pretty obvious to me, but everyone else has shown to be oblivious. And it goes the same as town.

 

[Overswarm]

If this is the case, why have you repeatedly told people you're sure that he is "100% town" when you're not?

Do you have anything to say about the post I made other than "meta"?

 

[Rajam]

@Red Ryu: The things you just attacked me for don't even apply any more. I start playing properly and give reasoning and now you are still brining stuff up from ages ago. People saw it the first time that you posted it. Also pretty sure I've asked you this before but explain why specific actions are scummy. Think about the intent a player has when they make the posts. Think what reasons the player could have to do it as town, then think what reasons they could have to do it as scum. Saying 'trying to make deals is mad scummy' isn't enough.

X1, could you say what else do you have on OS besides your point that he doesn't follow his reads (on Cdubs)? Because as the same OS said, what reason would have scum for dropping an indy read? Even if it's true that OS wasn't following his indy read on Cdubs, I don't see what it has to do with anything; nor town nor scum would have a reason to drop an indy read, so this point in your case does nothing in terms of seeing OS' faction

Also you accuse RR in this quote for using past "evidence" (sorry the lack of a more appropiate word) that shouldn't apply anymore because you've changed your play. Ironic, since it's analogue to what you were doing with OS when you told him he started to follow on Cdubs after you said he wasn't following his case, so, why are you telling RR to drop it off if you changed after RR accused you for your earlier play style?

Finally, on a second appreciation your deal of "glg I promise Ran is D3 but OS is toDay" smells like: "Please let my partner Ran live pls pls pls!"

 

[Rajam]

@Rajam: I asked you why you thought OS might have avoided speaking about me when you asked him multiple times.

Because you are scum partners? How would I know why, I just know he was evading and that's why I asked him several times until he recognized he has a null read on you

 

[X1-12]

Its clear from circumstances that all he was trying to do is appear as though he is scumhunting even when he is not, he probably wanted to save CDubs for later so he could spread his thin scumhunting out as long as it could. If you don't believe that its scummy, because he would follow an indy read as scum, then how do you explain the way in which he defends himself? Using false data, strawmanning, lies and intentional misrepresentation of my points?


Did you not read what I said after OS tried the exact same argument? I'm just trying to get RR to post something relevant to discussion, bringing up stuff he's already posted from D1 is not helpful.

It could smell like that. But it also smells like the fact that I want OS lynched ASAP rather than leaving him more time to try to wriggle away, whereas Ran is hella easy to lynch and I could trust you guys to do that even if I die.

@Rajam: Could you see a Ran/OS team? Or Nich/OS? Look at the way in which they distracted from his wagon starting at like #1520

 

[X1-12]

I'd like it if you could respond to that before you leave Rajam

 

[Beat!]

I say that because it seems they have been pushing hard for each other. Their arguments are dragging on for long too. I almost forgot that we need to lynch someone in 3 days. (That is why I asked them both questions up above)]

They've been pushing hard for each other the entire game. X1 called OS scum early D1. I really don't think they would want that much attention. It COULD be a super gambit plan, but I highly doubt it.

Although them being a scum team is only a possibility.

You say they can't be a team. Can you show me why you think that? I may be wrong, and I'd like to know your point of view.

They've been pushing hard for each other the entire game. X1 called OS scum early D1. I really don't think they would want that much attention. It COULD be a super gambit plan, but I highly doubt it.

Can you say why you agreed with Zen's post? I'd like to see that.

Glyph-Vult
Glyph-Ryu
Not Glyph-x1
I could also see Glyph-OS

I agreed with these connections.

I want you guys to think by yourselves the whole time. Not follow and then change up. I'm ok with you guys doubting zen, but I find it odd you would doubt him after that, and not before.

Yes, I see that, but from what I understand you would've considered me scummy if I had continued agreeing with Zen as well, because then I'd still be "blindly following" him according to you. I just get the feeling you would've wanted to go for me either way and were just looking for something to fill up your case with.

Maybe you can help me understand that? What made you doubt Zen?

I've replied to Nabe about this. He's been going back and forth, and he's been throwing around insults D2.

No, I haven't found it. Was it before page 11? Please quote it, thank you.

@FF
Post #407
Glyphs response was basically "lolol im town btw im replacing"

Ran has not made any attempts to respond to this yet.

Though I can understand that Ran can't explain scummy posts by Glyph, but they are still there. I can't pretend like it never happened.

Ran can prove his townyness by posting a proper case against someone. If he does that, I will consider it from a null viewpoint.

I've said that a few times.

If Rajam didn't make a case on Glyph, but Zen made that post, would you think otherwise?

Zen's post was just a list of possible connections. It's very possible that I wouldn't have went for Glyph without Rajams case.