Fire and Lightning 2: DC Comics vs Pokemon Conquest Game over DC Comics Wins!

[Fandangox]

And for the latter because I am lazy.

:/

 

[Fandangox]

Ehh. I've been kinda avoiding the question cuz I wanted to gather my thoughts on it, but truth be told I'd rather wait until toMorrow for a cop claim. Now, your logic is sound as far as wanting a cop claim, and any cop that has useful info would likely have claimed at this point. But nobody has. We don't NEED the cop to claim right now, we'd just really like for him to. I mean, why not? 3 results are cool. But why not wait for toMorrow to come around? It's incredibly unlikely for anybody to die toNight if both teams are alive to see toNight, let alone having both target the same guy that happens to be the CCop. That gives us another result on players who have certainly not died, rather than those who possibly have. Better put, I think the info's more valuable if we wait a Day, but I'm not opposed to a claim toDay.

Gorf also answered, Ryker.

 

[Vult Redux]

So a wagon analysis of uncap votes might prove useful considering it was an even split and each Mafia has incentive to push the player they incapped.

Raziek (Pokemon Conquest Target) - Nim, Raziek, Nightmare Before Hardbody, ScaryLB59, Vult Redux, Handorin
Potassium (DC Comics Target) - Gova, Gorf, Gargaglione, Potassium, Fandangox.

That is, DC Mafia is likely on the former wagon and Poke Mafia is likely on the second wagon.

The most useful is the kantrip wagon to save. I have a strong townread on Gova, leaving (IMO) Gorf and Fand. My guess is that one of them is in the Poke Mafia, and thus the dabuz partner.

This leaves the DC Mafia on the other wagon, between NIM, Raz, Ryker, and Scary. I don't have a read on Scary, but I think it's very likely to have a Ryker-Raz or a NIM-Raz scumteam.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Gorf also answered, Ryker.

3 out of 7. And two of them agree with me.

 

[Nightmare Before Hardbody]

i do NOT agree with that latter part and thats a dangerous way to go about it. youd essentially be tossing your gorf (mildscum) and fanny (scum) reads into the dumpster in favor of connections. i see no reason why both cant be scum. scum bus in this setup (the following is where brosuke bussed rajam in the first game. he went on to win the game largely cuz of the "oh its unlikely that scum would bus each other! its likelier theyd try to save the buddy!" reasoning youre applying here)

http://smashboards.com/threads/fire-and-lightning-mafia-game-over.315151/page-38#post-13884792

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

oh come on.

It doesn't matter if he had an opinion on Raz vs Kantrip. That's a separate issue. That fact is, he was noncommittal about his lynch vote if you can't make a lynch decision in a week-long Day Phase, that's a huge red flag. Being active yet noncommittal is how I knew to shoot Indie TBG in Earthbound Mafia. It's a really good tell.

Hmm I never really thought of it as him being non committal, moreso just... Unsure. I'll keep that in mind though.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Damn we have 38 pages in D1.

Can I ask why we haven't considered Scary a viable option for scum?

 

[Vult Redux]

I'm willing to consider that gorf and Fand are on opposing scum teams, but I doubt they're together.

Do you think it's possible that Ryker could have voted with your uncap wagon D2 to save his scum buddy?

Is there something about Scary that makes you bring him/her up Gorf?

 

[Gova]

well; i doubt he's PC scum cause he doesn't shoot raz in his situation and i can't see him being raz's partner as DC scum

 

[Nightmare Before Hardbody]

@ Vult Redux

sure. i hated how he agreed with my pushes yesterday but never PUSHED so i was forced to put in all the ****ing work. the possibility of him just riding my coattails is there but im really not sure

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'm willing to consider that gorf and Fand are on opposing scum teams, but I doubt they're together.

Do you think it's possible that Ryker could have voted with your uncap wagon D2 to save his scum buddy?

Is there something about Scary that makes you bring him/her up Gorf?

Yea, it's his lack of content that really makes me curious. I haven't completed my reread, but first off from what I have let me say that I'm starting to understand your Fandango hate more and more. His play reads as him being active, yet not really making a push anywhere period. I call this play "reading out of the How to Post like a Townie manual" because that's what his play overall feels like. He's saying all the right stuff, but he's very mild in his approach. But, moreover, the fact that Scary's post leave such little impression make me worry as well. Whereas it doesn't look like Scary's trying to keep up an appearance of contribution, there's nothing that I can either remember or point out that looks like Scary developing a read or working with town or doing anything. He's kinda just riding in the back, allowing us to operate and allowing himself to play sheep. Like Fandango, he's kept himself in a very safe position.

 

[Gova]

uh; okay but i feel like you're missing the important stuff gorf + vult. i don't think fandango is scum based on who he's advocated for death

he was on the dabuz wagon; and he advocated for raz yesterday even when kantrip started flaining; both of which are scum

dabuz being PC scum and raz being DC scum

i can't see him on either team based on his play; but i'm unfamiliar with him so i'm not certain how he'd handle his scum mates as scum

 

[Vult Redux]

Am interested in seeing if Fand was a started or a latecomer on the dabuz wagon because I can't remember. I could see him bussing if there is previous support, but not starting an offensive against a buddy.

This is based off previous play, but probably should be taken with grain of salt because it's been a REALLY long time since I played with him. However I still think the above prediction would be pretty accurate.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I can Fandango on a team with dabuz. I'll have to read up to where he joined the push to see how he did it, and I'd also have to see Raz' flip juuuuust to ensure that I can let myself be unable to see em on DC scum if Raz is scum.

unvote

Hey gova, do me a favor and make a clear-cut and concise post as to why Raz is scum. No quotes, and no pressing the enter key. I'd just like to see your POV nice and laid out to take into account upon reading up on him.

 

[Gova]

see my first post from this dayphase;

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Aight fuh sho

 

[Gova]

and to add on to it; i don't like how ryker is saying he couldn't have done anything that dayphase; there certainly were things for him to do; like taking any kind of stance on gorf's slot or hando's slot; he had hando at null and avoided giving his read on gorf all of d2; but instead he just spent all day advocating for his survival

 

[Gova]

oh; and regarding the hammer; it was his only play as scum since he could not risk vult switching his uncap vote; as town he could have waited for 1) hando to post anything useful, 2) waited for marshy/J to respond to my response regarding why raz needed to die and 3) do something himself; like actually trying to strengthen reads on someone. this game is active enough for that to happen

 

[Gova]

emphasis should be on "as scum" instead of only

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

What do you think of Ryker + Raz? Also, read up to I think it was pg 6 and tell me what you make of Raziek's reaction to the Soup situation.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Has Raz even done anything this Day phase with his fruitful reread that he promised he'd have while trying to save himself yesterDay?

 

[Gova]

he hasn't even posted this dayphase iirc

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I said this like 3 or 4 times before I died, but I appreciate the defense?

Like, I had this happen with Kantrip yesterday, too, and it just doesn't have the same weight coming directly from my slot.

Errr, rather, before Hando/Potato died.

Sorry, I just woke up from a nap.

I'll consider it, yeah.

My only venues are Gorf/Gova/HollowNote right now.

And I'm more than a little depressed that I'm getting **** for trying not to die on D2 when half of what I had to do was spend time tearing down people's ****ty justification for trying to let me die. Everyone on my wagon except Fanny wanted me dead largely because I was just null and hadn't done a ****load, which is KINDA fair I guess, but now I'm still getting harassed for that on D3.

I did not HAVE a choice if I wanted to continue this game. I had to convince people not to let me die. I wanted to push Hollow/Vult but nobody was biting except Garg until the VERY END OF THE DAY.

Who died? Big surprise. The one who wanted to lynch my scumread.

@Fan: My Hollow case is about as compelling as your Raz = Dabuz case, so please stop being a broken record with this "wasn't convinced" ****. Just because you weren't convinced (partially as a result of scumreading me, no doubt), doesn't mean it wasn't substantiated.

These are all his posts so far toDay, the bolded being the only things resembling any sort of stance. It's D3 and we still need to force information out of this guy like geez.

 

[Gova]

What do you think of Ryker + Raz? Also, read up to I think it was pg 6 and tell me what you make of Raziek's reaction to the Soup situation.

highly plausible; and now that i re-read it; it seems really fishy

he posts to me seem to imply that soup is scum but somehow he comes out with a town read on him;

It's not just you. His words don't match his outward attitude toward the wagon.

Here's my problem with this, Soup.

You're an experienced player. You know pretty much every vote on you is BS.

Do you reaaally think that SWF Town, in a game without Ryker or Marshy, is going to pull a D1 quicklynch?

I just don't understand why YOU of all people are coming across as so panicked about this. If it was HollowNote, or one of the less experienced players, I would understand.

^ implies to me that he might think soup is scum

Inquiry, then, Soup.

Have you gained any useful reads from how people are approaching your wagon and your reactions to it?

^ this is the only post between his implication posts and then somehow comes out with a town read below

I thought we may've been on to something, Gorf, but I'm coming out of this with a town-lean on Soup after we talked him down. Slight, but it's there.

Reason being is that his concern over the wagon seems that he genuinely doesn't want to see a ML over stupid ****. He's not thinking solely out of self-preservation. If it had been the latter I'd have been more worried, and seeing where his head is at (reads-wise) after the wagon just makes me feel better about it overall.

lol at bolded; raz solely thinks about self preservation d2; we should really lynch this guy

 

[Gova]

oh but gorf; i think MiR and raz is just as plausible if not more so

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I'm really vibing on the early Soup connection, and I DO think scumRyker has the balls to outright protect his partnerRaz in the manner that he did yesterDay. It was entirely reputation based, and his refusal to even consider Kantrip was grimy as hell. Politoed reads as town to me though and his early interaction with Raz would be way too hard of a reach imo.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote Raz

I apologize to someone. I'm dense.

 

[Gova]

you'd be apologizing to me

 

[Gova]

Vote Raz

I apologize to someone. I'm dense.

what made you change your mind

 

[Nightmare Before Hardbody]

Hey guys, some things just popped up with the play regarding an actor quitting the play so I have to take up some more time helping out my school so I am going to have to drop this hydra with marshy. I am terribly sorry but life is just being life at the moment. Sorry for leaving but thanks for having me even for a short while.

 

[Nightmare Before Hardbody]

Do you think it's possible that Ryker could have voted with your uncap wagon D2 to save his scum buddy?

was thinking more about this

@ Vult Redux

what do you think of ryker coming into d3 asking so blatantly for the cop to claim? do you think hed be so out there about saving his buddy?

 

[Nightmare Before Hardbody]

Hey guys, some things just popped up with the play regarding an actor quitting the play so I have to take up some more time helping out my school so I am going to have to drop this hydra with marshy. I am terribly sorry but life is just being life at the moment. Sorry for leaving but thanks for having me even for a short while.

**** my ****ing life

there goes my gorf case

sigh. well it looks like gorf lynch is getting ***********. i still think fannys worth looking at and gorfs description of "posting out the how to post like a townie" manual with little bite is a concise way of putting his play tho the **** ive said today remains the foundation of why id like to see im gone

vote fanny

 

[Nightmare Before Hardbody]

I DO think scumRyker has the balls to outright protect his partnerRaz in the manner that he did yesterDay. It was entirely reputation based, and his refusal to even consider Kantrip was grimy as hell.

i think its just as likely that ryker misread razscum like i prolly did. if rykers partners with raz that aint why

im pretty sure scum bussed in this game i just dunno when and where. i hate the connection arguments prevalent in the thread right now and feel scum is taking advantage of them to distract town from focusing on overall play. think potato in tranquility. but you already knew that right gorf

 

[Vult Redux]

what do you think of ryker coming into d3 asking so blatantly for the cop to claim?

it's null probably.

I can empathize with being a little lost on reads this game and wanting to narrow them. As scum he's probably also trying to hunt the other scum team and would think outing a cop would be a way to do that. Basically idk.

 

[Vult Redux]

he hasn't even posted this dayphase iirc

Yeah he's scum.

Scum buddy probably forced him to get his ass in gear yesterDay only because he was at risk of getting killed. I mistook his play as making up for his D1 disappearance but that is clearly not the case.

Vote: Raz

 

[Vult Redux]

Vote Raz

I apologize to someone. I'm dense.

If you're trying to get a gold star for being on the wagon early I'm not giving it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i think its just as likely that ryker misread razscum like i prolly did. if rykers partners with raz that aint why

I don't think it's why he's partners with Raz either. I feel like the early Soup+Raz connection is way more damning, I was just pointing out how this isn't justification for him NOT being partners with Raz.

What's Raz at btw?

And do we STILL not have a cop claim? Like I said, I think it's worth waiting until toMorrow, but it'd certainly help to have it toDay. Oh and also @ Gova where do you see evidence for Raz+Marshy (I guess it's solo marshy now unless he REALLY wants to post in NBH lol) as the team? I can't find it bruh.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If you're trying to get a gold star for being on the wagon early I'm not giving it.

That's perfectly fine by me because I'm not on the wagon early. I'm on it late because I was initially directly opposed to it.

 

[Vult Redux]

why did you reply to my post and not Gova's

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Because I can respond to your post with one sentence and because I do not intend to respond to Gova's post toDay if it's the one I think it is.