Final Zelda Discussion - What's In, what's out?

[Chief Mendez]

- The Legend of Zelda + Super Smash Bros. Brawl -​

Made to discuss all possible, or not-so-possible (I'm looking at you, Malon) Super Smash Bros. Brawl features (items, characters, stages, even modes) that come from the Legend of Zelda games.

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CHARACTERS
If you've thought of a character that isn't listed here (be realistic: Octoroks aren't going to get a spot), post it. If not, join in and tell us who you think's going to make the cut.

Suspected Characters​

Generally Accepted Possibilities​

Midna (Imp form, Twili form, w/Wolf Link), Tingle, Skull Kid, Zant, WW Link, Tetra, WW Zelda (with or w/o Tetra), Vaati

Confirmed Characters​

Link, Zelda, Sheik(?), Ganondorf(?)

The TP version. Other Links (Windwaker Link) are still up in the air.

The TP version...sort of. What connection (if any) will she share with Sheik this time around?

Sheik still might not be confirmed...GameInformer and Eiji Aonuma are reliable enough sources, but without Dojo!! consent, I'll not stake credibility on it.

Ganondorf still might not be confirmed...GameInformer and Eiji Aonuma are reliable enough sources, but without Dojo!! consent, I'll not stake credibility on it.​

Mendez's Picks​

Who I Suspect Will Go Gold

-Midna
-Tingle
-WW Link​

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STAGES

The Bridge of Eldin

ITEMS
Nothing's been announced yet, so there's no actual list yet. Until then, just suggest items you think would be good additions.

OTHER
Here's where I'd put in Gameplay Modes, Trophies, and other miscellaneous stuff like that.

 

[Stryks]

Seriously saying skull kid is important to the series is lame, not to mention ur saying dark samus has the same chances as him, do I have to keep sayuing that DS is the main enemy of the prime saga?

Zant and midna are the best chances for a new zelda character in brawl, and WW link too...

 

[Numa Dude]

Well I think Midna's chances are overrated and that the whole "all characters will be TP" crap is bull and Y.Link will be cell shaded.

WHY DID YOU BRING UP DS?! Skull Kid is more important to the series than Midna- fact.

 

[Deleted member]

Zant and Midna have no chance. Skull Kid deserves recognition beyond a trophy for being in the more recent games. Zant might be in the next few, but that's just speculation, and Midna is the same. For all we know they are one-offs seeing as they're part of a world that is disconnected from Link's - probably forever.

 

[Numa Dude]

So...there's only one Skull Kid? I guess those TWO that had you replaying notes as a kid in OoT were shadow clones.

Like the case with Toad there is a generic race but one recurring character in that race.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Well I think Midna's chances are overrated and that the whole "all characters will be TP" crap is bull and Y.Link will be cell shaded.

WHY DID YOU BRING UP DS?! Skull Kid is more important to the series than Midna- fact.

Well Octoroks are more important than Skull Kid. SK also has the "past his prime" thing going on. Midna's more popular, more recognizable, and etc.

Also, by "the whole 'all characters will be TP' crap is bull and Y.Link will be cell shaded", do you mean a Young Link-esque fighter WON'T or WILL be cel-shaded? It's a bit unclear.

 

[Numa Dude]

Well Octoroks are more important than Skull Kid. SK also has the "past his prime" thing going on. Midna's more popular, more recognizable, and etc.

Skull Kid was a major character in one game and had cameos in two while Octorok is a generic enemy race. Vaati>Midna.

Also, by "the whole 'all characters will be TP' crap is bull and Y.Link will be cell shaded", do you mean a Young Link-esque fighter WON'T or WILL be cel-shaded? It's a bit unclear.

I mean he will be cell shaded because that is currently Y.Link's most famous version and he will NOT be TP style just because of regular Link's style.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Like the case with Toad there is a generic race but one recurring character in that race.

Uh, how so? Most "Toads" look, sound, and are named exactly the same. There are separate Toads, like Toadette and Toadsworth, but I don't think there's any way to tell the Toads from Mario 64, Luigi's Mansion, Superstar Saga, and Super Mario Bros. apart from the Toad in Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, and Toadstool Tour.

Heck, all Skull Kids follow that, but the SK in Majora just happened to mug a peddler.

 

[Stryks]

Smash daddy u burn urself with that post:

Skull Kid deserves recognition beyond a trophy for being in the more recent games.

And zant was what in a game 15 years ago? Fact of the matter is, like sheik was added in smash, without knowing if or if not she would be a main character in the entire series, midna and zant have a shot in being in the game, midna has overwhelming popularity, and is an interesting character, zant is kinda like a 2nd ganondorf, merciless and psycopathic is what make shim so unique, not to mentionmoves that can easily make a moveset (I myslef have made one in the past)

Ok im tired of: vaati>midna and midna and zant are overated, that all u guys give, give me reasons of WHY would they have a better chance...

 

[Deleted member]

Let me re-iterate that Zant has no chance. Midna - maybe, Zant - no. He has absolutely, positively, undeniably no chance of ever being in any other game or being recognised anywhere else but Twilight Princess. He's cast away as soon as Ganondorf is set up to be fought, and obviously isn't going to return. His invention was one that was meant to break the whole "we must fight GANON at the end of EVERY GAME" phenomenon, but for whatever reasons the developers thought it would be a great twist if Ganondorf showed up/was a mistake to include Zant at all.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Skull Kid was a major character in one game and had cameos in two while Octorok is a generic enemy race. Vaati>Midna.

Stop reffering to 'Skull Kid' as if there's only one, or that the one from MM is the same as OoT and TP's. Please and thank you.

I mean he will be cell shaded because that is currently Y.Link's most famous version and he will NOT be TP style just because of regular Link's style.

That I can get behind. Although I've never heard anyone say that every Zelda rep will be TP-based...

Let me re-iterate that Zant has no chance. Midna - maybe, Zant - no. He has absolutely, positively, undeniably no chance of ever being in any other game or being recognised anywhere else but Twilight Princess. He's cast away as soon as Ganondorf is set up to be fought, and obviously isn't going to return.

I agree with you. I'm all for Midna, but I don't see Zant making it in as anything but a trophy or some other sort of reference.

His invention was one that was meant to break the whole "we must fight GANON at the end of EVERY GAME" phenomenon, but for whatever reasons the developers thought it would be a great twist if Ganondorf showed up/was a mistake to include Zant at all.

That really ticked me off. I was enjoying the originality (well, as far as Zelda games go) of TP, and then Ganondorf showed up in that Mirror Chamber cutscene. At that point, I was still hoping he'd be just a plot link or something, but NO! Also, he doesn't look anywhere near as cool as WW Ganon.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Double posting=bad.

 

[Stryks]

I actually like TP ganondorf than WW ganondorf, his armor is so ****ing awesome...

Anyway, zant has a chance believe me, u may tink he would just be a trophy, could be, but where u really expecting shiek in melee? zant has a chance, and can be very original...

 

[Numa Dude]

Uh, how so? Most "Toads" look, sound, and are named exactly the same. There are separate Toads, like Toadette and Toadsworth, but I don't think there's any way to tell the Toads from Mario 64, Luigi's Mansion, Superstar Saga, and Super Mario Bros. apart from the Toad in Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, and Toadstool Tour.

Check the Toad thread to see where THE Toad appears and where the generic race appears.

Heck, all Skull Kids follow that, but the SK in Majora just happened to mug a peddler.

The Skull Kid in MM was the same Skull Kid in OoT that you sung Saria's song to you can tell by the dialogue.

Stop reffering to 'Skull Kid' as if there's only one, or that the one from MM is the same as OoT and TP's. Please and thank you.

There is a singular recurring Skull Kid in OoT and MM and I have reason to believe the one in TP is him too but I won't know for sure until I play TP.

That I can get behind. Although I've never heard anyone say that every Zelda rep will be TP-based...

Alot of people seem to think that even if you haven't heard it.

 

[GenG]

Skull Kid being a playable character? Maybe in Melee, since Majora's Mask was as it highest, but now, after 7 years, there are more popular characters.

Link, Zelda and Ganondorf aren't going anywhere. They may A) ditch Sheik for a better Zelda, B) nerf Sheik and improve Zelda and the transformation mechanics or C) make Sheik a separate character, but I think A) is the most plausible since Zamus will likely took over Sheik as the new ninja character.

As for newcomers, I think Link WW will make the cut because the possibilites he gives as a quirky cellshaded character, and NOT being another Link. There are many WW Link games too, making the first Link established design (not changed). Midna COULD make it because TP's prime, but I'm not sure. She is a loveable character and could have strong spells, the question is if they would pick real or cursed Midna (alone of course).

 

[Numa Dude]

Let me get one thing straight Shiek was NOT a seperate character she was a technique that Zelda used.

 

[Stryks]

Wait numa dude, u HAVENT PLAYED TP?! how the HELL can u judge zant and midna then, that just plain ********!!

Also Sheik is a character too, not justa technique, there are hundreds os thousands of people who main sheik, but not zelda, sheik is more than just a move...

 

[GenG]

That's what you think, however the Melee page states that there are 26 characters, Sheik included. You can see it by yourself here.

Also, Iwata said this when he asked Sakurai to do the game (as you can read in the Dojo):

"We'd work to make the game independently, but we might be told to simply focus on making the game Wi-Fi compatible, and may be instructed not to lay a hand on any of the 26 characters in the current game, Super Smash Bros. Melee."

So Sheik is officially a character, not a technique. Sheik and Zelda in Melee are two characters sharing the same body.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Wait numa dude, u HAVENT PLAYED TP?! how the HELL can u judge zant and midna then, that just plain ********!!

Quoted for truth.

 

[Numa Dude]

I haven't played TP yes but the fact that I think they have a low chance is because they have ONLY appeared in TP while other characters have appeared in several games like Vaati. what I meant by not a character is not a rep for that series (I admit I should have specified that my bad) She technichaly counts as a character because she has a moveset but I was talking about reps for the series.

 

[Chief Mendez]

That's still a very loose foundation to build an argument on. I hate to beat a dead horse, but look to Sheik. Only in one game, but the devs found him worthy to be in Melee. Also, note that he was in the most popular Zelda game at that time: Ocarina. What's the most popular Zelda today? Certainly not Minish Cap of Four Swords.

 

[Stryks]

Just because a character has one appearance, doesnt mean her/his chances are low, look at sheik, ganondorf, pichu and so on...

 

[Numa Dude]

Shiek was both a tech and a character if that makes sense. SHE was part of Zelda's moveset so she was a move but she had a moveset of her own so she was considered a character. It's pretty confusing. On the topic of my not playing TP (Stupid Nintendo not supplying enough Wiis.) I still know enough about the characters to have an opinion on there chances of being in brawl and I think it is low if I'm wrong then so be it I have nothing against the actual characters I just think they won't be in brawl.

@Stryks: I've already explained Sheik, Ganon and Ganondorf are the same entity and Pichu was put in to be a clone and nothing more.

 

[Stryks]

Lol its absolutely ******** judging something without expericing it, if its a book, food or a game and its characters, midna not only has moves, but has a personality, a big role as in now incredibly popular among zelda fans, now zant aint as popular, but is a merciless boss who, just when u think uve seen everything u can about this guy, he goes absolutely psychotic and weird, he is a great and fun boss, and with the ending in TP, we MAY see him again...

 

[Numa Dude]

You know what Stryks I'm absolutely tired of your arrogant ******* attitude that you get when someone disagrees with you. As I've already posted I know enough about them to form an opinion about them. Yeah we MAY see him again but that doesn't mean we will. If he does come back then he MAY have a chance to get in the next smash but for now the most important Zelda villain next to Ganon is Vaati who might I add is cell shaded Link's rival and with Y.Link most likely getting cell shaded he has a VERY good chance of appearing.

 

[Stryks]

Look the handheld games dont sell as much, and arent actually part of the zelda storyline, there more like side stories, vaati was created just like zant: they anted to create somone new, and thus vaati was made, but the fact is, he has only appeared in handheld games, and aint very popular...

Now midna has the highest chances, being more recent and having a popularity and a role unlike others in other zelda games, and with zant bein the newest boss, and having the wacky attitude that smash is famous for, hes a more interesting character...

 

[Numa Dude]

You are making **** up now. The handheld games DO count and Vaati was in three as the main villain so he was more than just made up like Zant. You can't beat my argument so you make up crap to say it's invalid I'm surprised at you.

 

[Stryks]

wtf? dude who saying zant wont become the next vaati?, its possible, but since I cant c in the future, nor do I have a time machine, I cant tell u if it will happen, fact is vaati was created just like zant, but zant is the newest guy, vaati has like what 4 or more years now? zant barely has 6-7 months, give him a break...

Point is the handheld games dont influence the series as much as the console series, why do u think in WW they didnt mention stuff from the handheld games? but they mention a hell of a lot of stuff from OoT?

 

[Numa Dude]

You realise WW came first and was a different Link. Okay I understand what you are saying but what I'm saying is that Vaati is the current second villain so he has the best chances. I still think Midna is overrated.

 

[Stryks]

Its like saying I h8 the main boss in super paper mario, I find him useless and stupid, when i have NEVER fought him, nor play him b4, also there were GB games b4 WW, why werent they mention in WW?? '

ZGanondorf is the main villain, zant MAY be the 2nd boss of the series, IDK, maybe its vaati, but seeing how vaati is now pretty much old news, not appearing in newer games (unless he appears in phantom hourglass, i may change my mind) and only appearing in handhelds, i say zant has a better chance, having a large number of moves, abilities and being more recent

 

[Numa Dude]

Because WW was a new Link that took place after the OoT and MM Link. It's all different time lines. Vaati is the second villain currently because he has been in the most games. Zant is more recent but unless Vaati doesn't come back and Zant does I still say Vaati is the second villain.

 

[Stryks]

Still, in TP, link being a totally diferent link, u still hear stuff about OoT, WW takes place in the future, after the timelines of every zelda game ever made WHEN WW was released, thus if the handhelds were important, like the oracle of seasons and ages, something in their storyline would have been mentioned...

 

[Chief Mendez]

I don't think the "timeline' argument is a valid one, as the only games we know are directly connectedare OoT, MM, WW, and TP. Unless I'm wrong (always possible), the other games are never explicitly included or excluded from that or any other sequences.

EDIT - I'll finish up the first post in a few hours after the Pokemon movie's (Lucario!) done.

 

[Deleted member]

OH MY GOD.

Seriously. Zant is not coming back. Ever. He is dead, forever. The Twilight realm's mirror thing was shattered by Midna's tear. If this doesn't give you enough evidence then I don't know what will. Zant is not mysterious like the Skull kid, or fitting with the Triforce legend like Zelda and Ganondorf, he is a one-time character that holds Ganondorf's place until the big reveal near the end. This is where his story ends. Skull kid and Zelda are never killed. Ganondorf is "defeated" many times but comes back. Zant is a crazy puppet that was thrown away in wake of Ganondorf.

Saying he has a chance is going extremely far. Skull kid is in with a greater chance simply because he's appeared in more games, let alone the fact he's actually the main villain, unlike Zant, in one of these games. Sure, he's a puppet just like Zant, but not to a recurring villain that was (probably) origionally planned to be put to death. By Zant. I wonder why they didn't want to do that... Oh, yes, because Zant isn't planned to return.

You see, this is the difference between Skull kid and Zant. Skull kid wasn't thrown away, he was used effectively and built around a solid plot. He's there right until the end. Zant is a character who is thrown away. He's there until the real villain shows up.

 

[Numa Dude]

I think Mendez pretty much said I was about to say.

 

[Wrath`]

isnt tp suposedc to be before ww. it what iv heard.

 

[Numa Dude]

Of course its before WW you see a giant ocean any where?

 

[Stryks]

Smash daddy, by u standards, ganondorf aint comin back, last I checked the triforce of power let him, and zant gave him the last blow, thus killing him, if I learned anything from Zelda, is that characters dont always die...

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think TP is anywhere near the timelines of OoT and MM. Everything is set out differently.

Ganondorf will always come back as long as he has the Triforce of Power. What does Zant have? He has nothing.

 

[Wrath`]

zant is a game specific boss,on one game,hes not a well rounded character that is interesting to keep him continuing in the sreriess