Final Smashes- Bad idea?

[Talendime]

I just came upon this thought today; do you think maybe it was a bad idea to add the "Final Smash" attack into the game? After seeing the video that was posted on the site the other day, I noticed that Pikachu's attack (Volt Tackle) looked kind of weak and ineffective, whereas Mario's and Bowser's were sure to destroy everyone around them. It also appeared to me that Kirby's Final Smash wasn't very impressive either. The way these attacks differ from one another make some characters seem plain better than others, and that kind of makes me think that perhaps when [we] play the game, we'll just end up choosing our characters out of who has the most effective Final Smash, and leave some characters out of our selection completely.
Like, if you look at Mario's attack, you can see that the whole stage is engulfed in inescapable flames. And then you see that Link's clamorous sword shuffling (as glorious as it looks) only targets a single foe. It doesn't seem fair.

Does anyone else worry that this might cause us to neglect playing as a variety of characters, or am I just making a mistake?

 

[AMPMClock]

Considering that the Final Smashes will only be able to be used once per game, and most certainly is not the most proficient way to stack up kills, I think the Final Smash is a neat little thing.

 

[Blackadder]

It's just another little addition.
There activated by those Smash Balls, so if you turn Items off, you turn Smash balls of.
Easy.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

They add cinematic glory to the game ^^, when they use their Final Smashes it looks like the background dims like Fatalities in Mortal Kombat.
But I think they would balance them out. Group attacks do generally less damage, and single targeted attacks do more damage.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I dont think it should have been added at all. Its an intresting idea for an item but whoo boy coming up for one for EVERY character?

can you say waste of time? I can.

Because when you boil it down the final smash is a very pretty looking attack, that requires no skill to use.

I mean think about how many weeks/months went into all the final smashes and what it could have been spent on. A final smash involves grabbing a floating ball then putting your controller down and going to get a soda, or in the case of pikachus volt tackle, moving around the stick with one hand while having a cigarette.

Point being that these attacks are way too easy to do, in fact they're automatic, and they cause so much damage and take up so much time.

As a person who derives 90 percent of his video gaming pleasure from pure gameplay I can ignore how good the final smashes look and honnestly say I wish they didn't exist because of how little playing is involved in doing them.

 

[BlublacMH]

I like the FSes. They add a new element to the game and if they are activated only once as soon as you get the smash ball, they can have an element of strategy to it. To the TC: If you watched the 15 second trailer on Smashbros.com you'd see that Volt Tackle looks to be pretty powerful. Mario's FS might go across the whole stage but Im willing to bet its weak compared to Link's. Thats how things go: hitting all = weaker & hitting one = stronger. And like Blackadder said, if you dont like it, turn it off.

 

[KernelColonel]

Nobody has mentioned that you have to use Giga Bowser to attack.

Final Smashes = Excellent, flavorful idea. 'Nuff said.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

And like Blackadder said, if you dont like it, turn it off.

Will do *thumbs up*

Oh wait I never play with items, silly me

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Well adding a new feature is part of making a new game. Not much else I think they could add, assist trophys and new characters are nice but um.. a final attack..

 

[Master Peach]

I knew Dylan_Tnga Couldn't resist to respond to this thread, but back on topic, If I can recover from a final smash (Meaning I get hit with it but don't die) and it doesn't cause such extreme damage, then I'm all for it, if not banned!!

Anyways we really don't know hoe these final smashes will work. I mean we might need to control the character while their doing the smash or whatever, that just what I think. And Anyways final smashes could make the game more interesting.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I knew Dylan_Tnga Couldn't resist to respond to this thread.

Lol I have such a reputation here and I dont even know why. I post in almost all the intresting threads in the brawl section though.

Ah final smash, no final smash, its in the game, it looks cool, who cares, its 5 am. Cool update, bed now.

Coherent sentence = nope.

 

[h2ownage]

We don't know how good or bad Kirby's will be, but yeah, I hope they're balanced.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Analyzing the ones given, trying to make it balanced. I don't know how much % is a lot.. haven't played in a long time.
Mario = Decent damage since its large but attacks a lot at once. 60%?
Kirby = Won't do THAT much damage since its most likely it will heal him, but enough damage to know its dangerous. 40% damage and heal 40%?
Pikachu = Since its mobile it can take skill to stay away but can be avoided. I don't think it will do loads of damage, DK and whomever was the other victim was probably at high % to make it seem more effective. 50%
Link = Not sure how this one will work. Will you have to chase someone around and hit them (Like Naruto) before they get locked? It should do some horrid damage from the looks of it, slashes to end them all. 90%?
Ah... whatever ><

 

[Mic_128]

I noticed that Pikachu's attack (Volt Tackle) looked kind of weak and ineffective, whereas Mario's and Bowser's were sure to destroy everyone around them.

It knocked Mario and DK flying. Looks about on par as the others.

It also appeared to me that Kirby's Final Smash wasn't very impressive either.

Other than that cinimatic in the first trailer a year ago, we haven't seen anything on it. It could be fully redone and completly diferent.

The way these attacks differ from one another make some characters seem plain better than others, and that kind of makes me think that perhaps when [we] play the game, we'll just end up choosing our characters out of who has the most effective Final Smash.

You mean like Tier Lists? Oh no!

Like, if you look at Mario's attack, you can see that the whole stage is engulfed in inescapable flames. And then you see that Link's clamorous sword shuffling (as glorious as it looks) only targets a single foe. It doesn't seem fair.

Who siad you can't SHIELD the flames? Or hit mario with a projectile as he starts? Or hang off the edge so it misses you. And Links can grab up to 3 people, Sakurai said so.

Does anyone else worry that this might cause us to neglect playing as a variety of characters?

It will, in the same way every other attack did so with Tiers in Melee.

can you say waste of time? I can.

Pity about everyone else who likes them. Detailed stages? Who needs em, just bring in a flat stage, a flat stage with a platform and a flat stage with 3 platfoirms and we got all we need.

Because when you boil it down the final smash is a very pretty looking attack, that requires no skill to use.

Except for the whole getting in the perfect position to use the atack, making sure there's not anyone close enough to interupt the attack, being hit out of the attack. And not to mention the skills people will be using to stop the attack or get out of the way so it doesn't affect them.

A final smash involves grabbing a floating ball then putting your controller down and going to get a soda, or in the case of pikachus volt tackle, moving around the stick with one hand while having a cigarette.

This is a gross and stupid exageration.

Point being that these attacks are way too easy to do, in fact they're automatic, and they cause so much damage and take up so much time.

No one's played the game, so we have no idea how "automatic' they are, we haven't seen any footage with percentages so we don't even know how much damage they do, and we don't know how long the full attack goes for.

As a person who derives 90 percent of his video gaming pleasure from pure gameplay I can ignore how good the final smashes look and honnestly say I wish they didn't exist because of how little playing is involved in doing them.

Again, no one's played the game, so you have no proof to this in the slightest.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Whew quite a rant.. Well not an angry one. I agree pretty much 100%... Balance is everything even if all characters were perfectly balanced, there would still be tiers since some characters are more popular than the other.

 

[Lemon Drop]

So what happens if a Smash Ball falls down and you already used up your Final Smash attack turn, will you be able to pick it up to prevent the other person(s) from grabbing it?

 

[OnyxVulpine]

The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed.

Is that what he meant? Only once a game or only if you have the item?..... If so.. hmm.. maybe it just acts as a healing item or just disappears if you grab it..

 

[Talendime]

You mean like Tier Lists? Oh no!

I don't appreciate the sarcasm. That isn't needed. I was just asking a simple question on what other people thought. It's not like I was trying to start some sort of angry argument.

 

[maxpower1227]

I dont think it should have been added at all. Its an intresting idea for an item but whoo boy coming up for one for EVERY character?

can you say waste of time? I can.

Because when you boil it down the final smash is a very pretty looking attack, that requires no skill to use.

I mean think about how many weeks/months went into all the final smashes and what it could have been spent on. A final smash involves grabbing a floating ball then putting your controller down and going to get a soda, or in the case of pikachus volt tackle, moving around the stick with one hand while having a cigarette.

Point being that these attacks are way too easy to do, in fact they're automatic, and they cause so much damage and take up so much time.

As a person who derives 90 percent of his video gaming pleasure from pure gameplay I can ignore how good the final smashes look and honnestly say I wish they didn't exist because of how little playing is involved in doing them.

You know what, you're right. They should get rid of the Final Smash altogether. In fact, they should get rid of ALL items altogether, as well as any stage that has a hazard, or moving platform, or that scrolls. Everyone should just play 5 stock matches with no items on Final Destination all day long, because that's the fun way to play, right?

Man I'm glad I don't have to play this game with you.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

You know what, you're right. They should get rid of the Final Smash altogether. In fact, they should get rid of ALL items altogether, as well as any stage that has a hazard, or moving platform, or that scrolls. Everyone should just play 5 stock matches with no items on Final Destination all day long, because that's the fun way to play, right?

Man I'm glad I don't have to play this game with you.

I get what hes saying and respect that. Instead of adding something that will make it unbalanced. He wants them to get rid of it so they have time to work on things to make the game more balanced.

But I am on the side to have the Final Smash as I am the party game kind of person. And screaming "NOOO!" in the middle of the night as one of your friends knock you away from the Final Ball is fun.

 

[Takeshi245]

I get what hes saying and respect that. Instead of adding something that will make it unbalanced. He wants them to get rid of it so they have time to work on things to make the game more balanced.

But I am on the side to have the Final Smash as I am the party game kind of person. And screaming "NOOO!" in the middle of the night as one of your friends knock you away from the Final Ball is fun.

Same here. I'm in when it comes to having the Final Smash as well. If you want to have fun with your pals and just have a blast, go ahead and use the Final Smash. If you want a competitive match, turn all items off. That's the way I see it.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

And if it ends up being game breaking, turn off items, as most people will probably end up doing anyway after they're done ****ing around in the game... It's no worse of an idea than any other item that was made.

 

[pikachun00b7]

The BACON(FS) is awesome! Since every char has them, it'll effect the tiers! Saying Bacon is not aloud is like saying B moves are not aloud. If there was a chance to edit BACON out I would. But if they didn't it'll be fine by me!

EDIT: Pikachu's Bacon owns you all!

 

[Frigid_Aztec]

But your forgetting something. Pikachu's attack looked like it killed Mario and DK when it hit. Mario's may just be a wide-spread thing that does damage, but not KOs.

Also considering the Smash Ball only comes once per match its not that great of an issue.

Plus Bowser has been my main since day 1 of Melee, I'm not changing that for a Final smash

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

we dont know enough about them to judge them yet. and Dyna, to me it sounds like your just picturing all of these as unblockable, invincible, one hit KOs. im pretty positive all of the opposite are true. there are no unblockable attacks(throws dont count), and full body invincibility isent whored out in melee. lots of moves have it, but they are usually just start ups on "decent" moves. sure there are some strong knock-back moves, but most require some skill to land. i bet dk and mario had over 100 dmg when they got hit by pika's super. also, as a general rule of thumb for supers, they are just "throw them out and the hit". even in games like naruto where supers are unblockable "cut scene combos" you still couldent just do them randomly. there are lots of other factors to consider, and they require some skill to use properly. (but that game is awful anyway.)

for all we know, most of the supers in brawl wont even be comboable. they might have worse startup than we think, or have little/no invincibility, or have smaller hit boxes and can be out prioritized. plus so far they are all pretty standard super. big fireball, auto combo, moveable hit box, "super armor" etc.. its all been done before and i doubt sakurai just ignored all the previously learned flaws with super moves.

be more open minded every one, its a new game. dont be scared of change. itll be ok if there are lots of new stuff, that means new gameplay experinces and more to learn/practice.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

We shall see in the coming.. 143 whatever days... I wanna see everyone's Final Smash..
There has to be some way to avoid all of them, or just block it.

 

[TaikaAli]

Its annoying how people talk like they know how they will work and they suck 100% sure.
None has played the game, we know so little about the gameplay.
There really aint enough information for us to discuss things like these.
Lets starty crying about how imbalanced they are when game actually gets released.

 

[THK]

I dont think it should have been added at all. Its an intresting idea for an item but whoo boy coming up for one for EVERY character?

can you say waste of time? I can.

Because when you boil it down the final smash is a very pretty looking attack, that requires no skill to use.

I mean think about how many weeks/months went into all the final smashes and what it could have been spent on. A final smash involves grabbing a floating ball then putting your controller down and going to get a soda, or in the case of pikachus volt tackle, moving around the stick with one hand while having a cigarette.

Point being that these attacks are way too easy to do, in fact they're automatic, and they cause so much damage and take up so much time.

As a person who derives 90 percent of his video gaming pleasure from pure gameplay I can ignore how good the final smashes look and honnestly say I wish they didn't exist because of how little playing is involved in doing them.

Do you like, have fun at all?

You seem so serious all the time. I can see why everyone tells you to calm down. I think you just need to view on the more beautiful things in life. Like flowers blooming and blue skies with funny shaped clouds.

Live life, not Melee, just play Melee.

As for the topic. While my friends and I thought up super moves for fun, I didn't think they'd actually happen. I can't say if it's a good or bad idea cause there really isn't enough to go on. Sakurai easily points out the flaws in each of them with the exception of Giga Bowser (I guess that drawback there would be the time limit it lasts? Or maybe he gets slow as I don't know what? We'll see). I haven't seen any strong examples of effectiveness or frequency, etc etc etc. It's too soon to tell.

 

[maxpower1227]

Dylan to come in an indignantly defend his elitist Smash snobbery and call THK a scrub in 3......2.......

 

[Takeshi245]

Do you like, have fun at all?

You seem so serious all the time. I can see why everyone tells you to calm down. I think you just need to view on the more beautiful things in life. Like flowers blooming and blue skies with funny shaped clouds.

Live life, not Melee, just play Melee.

As for the topic. While my friends and I thought up super moves for fun, I didn't think they'd actually happen. I can't say if it's a good or bad idea cause there really isn't enough to go on. Sakurai easily points out the flaws in each of them with the exception of Giga Bowser (I guess that drawback there would be the time limit it lasts? Or maybe he gets slow as I don't know what? We'll see). I haven't seen any strong examples of effectiveness or frequency, etc etc etc. It's too soon to tell.

THK, though I argee with you keeping the Final Smashes, you have to understand that Dylan doesn't have anger problems. I don't think he takes the internet seriously nor your comments to calm down. Though his comments may seem harsh, I'm sure he's pretty collected. Sure, he thinks that the Smash Ball shouldn't be in there, but it doesn't change the fact it's going to be in there. Besides, I'm sure that there'll be an option to turn it off, anyway. No, Dylan, doesn't live on Smash. He just likes playing it competitively and doesn't like items so much. Well, this is all I got to say for now.

 

[Doggalina]

Ok, first in response to the original poster: How is adding content to a game bad, especially when we have the option to turn it off? Oh, wait, it isn't.

Dylan to come in an indignantly defend his elitist Smash snobbery and call THK a scrub in 3......2.......

I think Dylan should become a SBroomer so he can have "Smash Elitist" under his name.

 

[DonkeyPirate]

agreed. it would be different if FS's werent an item. I'm sure tournament wise, you will never see them

 

[RK Tha Prez]

Lol did people get so mad when there were super moves in street fighter alpha?

 

[Superstar]

Meh, Final Smashes. The purpose of this is to attract casual players to the game, and make it more fun for them. They look cool, but as they are activated by an item, are random, and are obviously overpowered, I will be turning them off, just like every other item in the game.

Final smashes is a good idea considering Nintendo's goal, but I'd rather they are turned off in competitive tournaments, and they WILL be off in my house.

I hope Nintendo doesn't attempt to balance the game with Final Smashes as a factor. I know complete balance is impossible in a diverse fighting game, but if they attempt to balance it using the final smashes, then the tier difference will be greater competitively.

Imagine, they make a character weak, but with a powerful Final Smash. Though they would work well in an item setting, such a character is useless for tournaments.

 

[maxpower1227]

Meh, Final Smashes. The purpose of this is to attract casual players to the game, and make it more fun for them. They look cool, but as they are activated by an item, are random, and are obviously overpowered, I will be turning them off, just like every other item in the game.

Final smashes is a good idea considering Nintendo's goal, but I'd rather they are turned off in competitive tournaments, and they WILL be off in my house.

Good for you. Maybe you and Dylan can form a club. You can be the real "No Fun League"

 

[Superstar]

Playing competitively is a different kind of fun. We think differently from the common crowd, so what's fun for you isn't fun for us, and what's fun for us ISN't fun for you.

I think practicing hard, learning your character, combos and such, and beating your opponent to a bloody pulp with no randomness in the middle is fun, and I made an edit to my previous post.

 

[Teben]

The beauty of Smash is that it gives you the liberty of tailoring your play experience to the "hardcore" or "fun" types of matches. I'm a fan of both and my crew typically alternates between one and the other when we get together. In fact, hardcore players playing an insane "fun" match can sometimes be the best time you'll have with these games, in my opinion.

A lot of the randomness of items etc can make for a HILARIOUS play experience. I predict many hours of laughter and irony handed out via final smashes come December.

Don't hate! They've given you the flat stages, item options, etc for the hardcore experience too!

 

[maxpower1227]

Imagine, they make a character weak, but with a powerful Final Smash. Though they would work well in an item setting, such a character is useless for tournaments.

So something that can be used ONCE in a match is going to be used to balance a character?

The beauty of Smash is that it gives you the liberty of tailoring your play experience to the "hardcore" or "fun" types of matches. I'm a fan of both and my crew typically alternates between one and the other when we get together. In fact, hardcore players playing an insane "fun" match can sometimes be the best time you'll have with these games, in my opinion.

A lot of the randomness of items etc can make for a HILARIOUS play experience. I predict many hours of laughter and irony handed out via final smashes come December.

Don't hate! They've given you the flat stages, item options, etc for the hardcore experience too!

EXACTLY.

All the randomness and chaos is precisely why this game is great, and often times downright hilarious. Sure, you can play it with no items, no stage hazards, and no other element of luck, but it can't be nearly as fun as a game where bob-ombs and green shells and hammers and legendary pokémons are flying around absolutely destroying everyone.

If you want a game whose outcome is decided based PURELY on skill with no randomness whatsoever, go play chess (and for the record I enjoy chess as well, but it's nowhere near as fun as Smash)

 

[Superstar]

@Teben
Yup, that's the beauty of smash, works just fine for both crowds. I might play some item matches, but for the most part, no items, practically never.

Final Smashes are not a bad idea, seeing as they have an off switch, which I can fully utilize to my heart's content. The only time I will ever bother using items is in an FFA. On a 1v1, it will always be no items. On an FFA skill is thrown out the window for the most part, so why not use items there.

@maxpower1227
And about using Final Smashes to balance characters, its just a fear, I will seriously doubt Sakurai's team if they use an item in an "attempt" to balance the game.

I have my way of playing and you have yours. Smash is capable of being played in a high level, using your intellect and technical skill to crush the opponent. Have you ever seen a pro match?

 

[maxpower1227]

I've downloaded many, many videos of many pro matches in SSBM, yes.

And they don't look nearly as fun as the chaotic, off-the-wall matches that can be had in that game.