Final smash, not just once.

[joepinion]

No, it does not say "you can use it but once after obtaining a smash ball." Not at all.

It says, very plainly, "a secret skill that can only be performed once..." THEN "and only after obtaining a Smash Ball."

Very different. Your sentence is dependent on the preposition, The Dojo's is not.

And don't give me that "translation problems" mumbo jumbo. Whoever is being paid to type out this English clearly knows what they're doing. This isn't the 1980s. People used the same excuse when they wanted to believe ZSSamus was a pure character addition, and we all saw how that turned out.

I'm not supposing anything about how the item actually operates. For all I know, you can grab a second and third just to stop others from using them. I just know you can only do one FS per character per match. Not because I'm speculating, but because Sakurai told us. He wasn't being coy.

 

[cccck]

And I see your point, but I just don't think that is how it is going to work... I don't see how that could be with a game like super smash bros... and I don't see why a FS could not be more then once per match (unless they took multiple lives off the target or something)

 

[Flare233]

If we see a screenie of a character doing a final smash on ZSS it will be confirmation that it's not just once per match.

 

[_the_sandman_]

You guys are looking way too into this.

If you have a 99 stock match, but can only use a smash ball once, then.... well.... that wouldn't make sense! There would be smash balls everywhere but nobody would be able to use them.

They're like the hammer or starman, you get one to use it once. Sakurai called it an item after all. Seriously, saying you can use it once per match is just silly.

Geez.... kids these days!

 

[maxpower1227]

No, it does not say "you can use it but once after obtaining a smash ball." Not at all.

It says, very plainly, "a secret skill that can only be performed once..." THEN "and only after obtaining a Smash Ball."

Very different. Your sentence is dependent on the preposition, The Dojo's is not.

And don't give me that "translation problems" mumbo jumbo. Whoever is being paid to type out this English clearly knows what they're doing. This isn't the 1980s. People used the same excuse when they wanted to believe ZSSamus was a pure character addition, and we all saw how that turned out.

I'm not supposing anything about how the item actually operates. For all I know, you can grab a second and third just to stop others from using them. I just know you can only do one FS per character per match. Not because I'm speculating, but because Sakurai told us. He wasn't being coy.

Here's an idea: instead of dissecting the precise wording of a man who doesn't speak English (or at least not well), why don't we just apply common sense? An item that can only be used once per character per match makes no sense when you can have a match that lasts 2 minutes or one that lasts 45 minutes.

Like I said, I GUARANTEE it is not a "one time per match per character" deal.

 

[Reno>]

Aw yeah! This means i can see Samus become Zero suited over and over.awwww aawww

 

[joepinion]

Personally, I have never played a 45-minute match. I doubt any of you have played more than one or two.

Your guarantee is rather brave, because you are contradicting the game's creator and director outright.

Here's the thing: I don't want to dissect the words. They are written for the purpose of a quick read through, to be easy to understand so we can move on with our day. They are not puzzles. That is why I'm saying it's once per character per match. Because he says it can only be performed once, AND you have to get a Smash Ball to do it.

Reading too much into it is what got this thread started in the first place. Common sense says go with the words.

Please, give me one single example where Sakurai's comments were proven misunderstood because of bad translation.

 

[maxpower1227]

I've played MANY marathon matches, actually. And common sense still says that any "once per match per character" inclusion would be stupid. This isn't Mortal Kombat and these aren't Fatalities.

And I can't give you any such examples because the game isn't out yet... >_>

 

[joepinion]

Alright, I'm going to bed. Obviously this is something very very silly to be arguing over, but I enjoy it.

Go ahead and continue to go with what you want it to be, but I'm going with what the game's director tells us.

 

[Desruprot]

I think it is one per character, since the Samus -> Zero Suite Samus can only occur once. This would make sense, it is an item so it can appear multiple times.

 

[maxpower1227]

Zamus probably reverts to Samus whenever she dies, or after a certain time limit. Bowser would obviously revert to his own self after transforming to Gigabowser, so I don't see why Zamus can't change back after a while (any armor pieces would disintegrate over time, kinda like a hammer head from Melee)

 

[_the_sandman_]

I can't believe people are still arguing about this....

ITS AN ITEM! Anyone can use it, anytime, as much as possible, etc. etc.

I have such a hard time believing that some people actually convinced an item can only be used once per round.

 

[twilight_hero]

"The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed."--Sakurai

It is indeed worded to sound like it can be used once per character per match. However, that is not like Smash Bros. at all. Imagine if you could only use the Home-Run Bat or Hammer once per character per match. That...would be the biggest piece of crap ever. I just don't find it likely that it'll be once per character per match. I think it was just a mistranslation. The Smash Ball is described as an item, which means it can be used more than once. "...an item called the Smash Ball..." End of discussion (except not really).

 

[cccck]

we are not seeing it as a puzzle though you might think we are, we are seeing it as we think it is, because they way you say it is, has not logic, other then that strangely worded thing.

 

[Oasis_S]

I'm going to agree with joepinion on this. It does sound like it's once per character per match to me. It would make more sense.

 

[TheZizz]

I'm one of those people who are baffled that there is any question about this. Once per character per match was the immediate impression I got from Sakurai's words.

Having said that though, I think it's pretty much a given that you'll be able to tweak that number somewhere in what is sure to be a ridiculously extensive array of options.

Regardless, I don't see how it wouldn't make sense or fit in with the Smash Bros. philosophy, especially with the increasingly comically epic direction the new game is taking (it's called Final Smash for crying out loud). It's an over-the-top powerhouse "Limit Break" of a move, usable only once in a while to increase its epicness even more.

And no, the game is in no way, shape, or form built with 45-minute matches in mind.

 

[DonkeySmasher]

first of all stop using the item argument

the smash ball is a radically new item that can have it's own rules and laws. secondly what else would you call it a thing?

also i personally am torn between if it's once per person or once per ball but don't say stuff like a guarantee it cause it's stupid the other way

your thinking way inside the box maybe you can grab it after you did your fs so your opponent can't

although it is unfathomable to your minds i suggest you look at the wording before you make wild speculation so far so many of these theories popped up because people refuse to listen to information when zamus bio was up it said this is not a true character addition that is plain english so far the final smash update is geared toward the once per person way

heck it might not be an item in which it can't be turned off

therefore you may speculate and give reasoning but don't say stuff is true facts just because you believe in it

 

[_the_sandman_]

Why... why would anyone want the Smash Ball to be used only once per round?


Some of you guys ACTUALLY want the game to be worse? Ridiculous!

 

[twilight_hero]

Why... why would anyone want the Smash Ball to be used only once per round?


Some of you guys ACTUALLY want the game to be worse? Ridiculous!

The only reason I can possibly imagine is for it to be more fair. But oh wait, I forgot, the thing's not fair in the first place! The only truly fair way to play Smash is with no items on the most basic stages! If there are items, such as the Smash Ball, it's where it drops and how fast characters are that matters.

Anyway, the only reason I can see for it to be once per person per round is fairness, and if it were fair, it wouldn't be in the game at all. Therefore, my conclusion is that items are unfair, and this one especially.

 

[THK]

I personally would like it to appear more than once, and learn the ins and outs of everyone's FS. Learning how to deal with and how to avoid/counter such moves is very important to me.

 

[cccck]

first of all stop using the item argument

the smash ball is a radically new item that can have it's own rules and laws. secondly what else would you call it a thing?

also i personally am torn between if it's once per person or once per ball but don't say stuff like a guarantee it cause it's stupid the other way

your thinking way inside the box maybe you can grab it after you did your fs so your opponent can't

although it is unfathomable to your minds i suggest you look at the wording before you make wild speculation so far so many of these theories popped up because people refuse to listen to information when zamus bio was up it said this is not a true character addition that is plain english so far the final smash update is geared toward the once per person way

heck it might not be an item in which it can't be turned off

therefore you may speculate and give reasoning but don't say stuff is true facts just because you believe in it

why do you say it has it's own rules and laws? we don't know if that is true. and I think in smash, they know what they are doing, and logically thinking about it, it seems un-smash like to have a limit like that.

and I would like to note, that zamus is in the newcomers... which may mean she is a true character addition, but it might just be becuse she is playable. we don't know. so don't say it like they thought this and where wrong.

and I am not saying it like facts, I said I think that is the way it well work... end of story. I looked at the past games to see if any pattern could be seen, and I think that is what it means. I could be wrong, but so could you.

 

[Rx-]

this seems more likely to point out that the final smash could be used once per game, which contradicts the Zamus ever changing back argument in it's own way.

 

[cccck]

We can't really bring zamus into it, until we know more, the way I see it she could easily have her own FS, but as for turning back, I think she well be stuck like that.

 

[maxpower1227]

I think making a character permanently stuck in an alternate form is a TERRIBLE idea. That way anyone who wants to main Samus (and not Zamus) can never use a Final Smash attack. I think Samus/Zamus can change back and forth during a math, and the FS attack is just a way of changing that happens to include a huge freaking laser blast baforehand.

 

[cccck]

True, but how does she get her armor back? does she pick it back up? does she use a FS and armor just pops out out of nowhere? I think that need's it's own topic..

but you don't know, I think they can make it work.

 

[maxpower1227]

I'd say either:

1) After a certain time limit, her armor reappears (unlikely)
2) After she dies, she comes back as Samus
3) She remains Zamus until she performs another transformation (assuming the transformation is manual, but I don't know what button that would be mapped to)

 

[Lemon Drop]

I think we need someone to translate the Japanese/Spanish/French/German/Italian versions and see what all we come up with.

 

[cccck]

don't ask google, it won't help very much.

 

[Lemon Drop]

We need a human translator.

 

[cccck]

Well, sadly I don't know anyone that can help with that... we would we find someone like that that would do it for free?

 

[Lemon Drop]

Perhaps someone here on the site knows one of these many languages.

Also I hope its once per smash ball. Cause if not, there goes my "All Smash Ball/Very High Item Rate"matches...

 

[cccck]

I know... that would be very cool to have matches such as that... even if you can't have all smash balls, or change the rate, just ONE per match... seems a tad extreme does it not?

also, would it hurt to have more then one FS? I don't think it would, I can't see why the would not do it.

 

[Lemon Drop]

I say with items set to normal, and in a normal match, the chances of the smash ball of showing up is at least once.

But lets say your playing a 99 stock match? Only smash ball per character/per match?

That's just stupid.

 

[cccck]

and I don't see why they would make such a thing (99 stock match) and not plan for it... I could see 1 FS per life even... but per match?

 

[joepinion]

???

We already have a translator. It is the people that run the site.

 

[Lemon Drop]

???

We already have a translator. It is the people that run the site.

Can they translate German/Spanish/Italian/French?

 

[MookieRah]

I like how a bunch of people act like they are in a position of authority and claim how "un-smash like" it would be if they actually interpreted the sentence in the most logical form. Sakurai clearly stated it "can be performed but once…." If it could only be performed once per ball, he wouldn't have had to say anything. It is to be assumed that a final smash would have been used one per ball otherwise. Obviously he stated "can be performed but once…" for us to know that you can use it once per match.

Ironically I'm going to use the position that most people debate against me on in other Brawl debates, and that is Brawl is a "new" smash with "new" additions and it will not be like the other two. You can argue how the "final smash" wouldn't live up to what you believe smash is all about just like you can argue the same with wavedashing, l-canceling, and all that. The thing is, you guys aren't Sakurai, and unlike wavedashing and all that, Sakurai came out and said you can only use this once in a match.

Also, most people play this game within a 5-10 stock match limit. I've been to A LOT of anime convention tournaments and this is what I typically see. That's about a 10 minute match, with 4 final smashes. Imagine how much damage 4 final smashes would cause in a FFA? Quite a bit. If it was once per ball then the entire game would revolve solely on evading and grabbing all the final smashes. Now if that doesn't make the game ****ty for FFA I don't know what does.

The only reason I can possibly imagine is for it to be more fair. But oh wait, I forgot, the thing's not fair in the first place! The only truly fair way to play Smash is with no items on the most basic stages! If there are items, such as the Smash Ball, it's where it drops and how fast characters are that matters.

Oh yay, lets have someone bash competitive play! Oh wait, you don't know what you are talking about! Some people, myself included, see the Final Smash as an item that would add more depth and strategy to the competitive scene. Why is this? Simple. The item has it's own limitations. It can't be abused over and over again, which would make the entire match break down into grabbing final smashes like I said earlier. It could be used strategically and would make matches exciting. I'm looking forward to learning how the Final Smashes work, cause I really hope that they are an item that can be used for competitive play.

Why... why would anyone want the Smash Ball to be used only once per round?
Some of you guys ACTUALLY want the game to be worse? Ridiculous!

OH NOES! I might have be strategic with an item instead of grabbing them all the time and playing dumb!

I just wish people would have a little more common sense as well as an open mind about Brawl.

 

[Lemon Drop]

I like how a bunch of people act like they are in a position of authority and claim how "un-smash like" it would be if they actually interpreted the sentence in the most logical form. Sakurai clearly stated it "can be performed but once…." If it could only be performed once per ball, he wouldn't have had to say anything. It is to be assumed that a final smash would have been used one per ball otherwise. Obviously he stated "can be performed but once…" for us to know that you can use it once per match.

So you know Japanese? By any chance you know any other launguages so you can confirm that is says this in all the languages?

 

[PrinnyFlute]

I like how a bunch of people act like they are in a position of authority and claim how "un-smash like" it would be if they actually interpreted the sentence in the most logical form. Sakurai clearly stated it "can be performed but once…." If it could only be performed once per ball, he wouldn't have had to say anything. It is to be assumed that a final smash would have been used one per ball otherwise. Obviously he stated "can be performed but once…" for us to know that you can use it once per match.

Hasn't anyone played, say, Street Fighter Alpha? Super moves are there: they aren't about dashing around and using them all over the place, they're about strategically saving your energy for a well-timed strike. That's likely the whole point of FS's. Saving them for that one, truly opportune moment in a match.

 

[MookieRah]

So you know Japanese? By any chance you know any other launguages so you can confirm that is says this in all the languages?

I guarantee you that the guy who translates that site into English is WAY more qualified to translate anything than pretty much anyone on this site. You guys are just so paranoid over this that you can't accept the obvious fact that Sakurai said you can only use it once. This isn't just some trivial translation error here.

Also, I GUARANTEE (lol @ maxpower) that if someone competant did re-translate the japanese version for us that it would give us the SAME thing that the PROFESSIONAL gave us. If your argument relies on the ever so slight possibility that the final smash segment was just misworded, why don't you accept that it's more likely to be true? I could understand you "hoping" it to be that way, but as it stands it seems you guys are telling us that we are stupid for knowing how to read an interpret a very clear statement.