FINAL RESULTS! Wii U controller latency comparison (GC vs. Gamepad, Pro, etc.)

[Squirty]

Thanks for the link Dantarion! That's really useful to see that someone else has already written a good article describing the polling window. Also, I like the term polling window -- that's exactly what I was talking about!

 

[Blitzern]

Do you know if the new SSB4 GC controller has the same imput lag as the original?

 

[DanGR]

I know several humans, including myself, who notice as little as 2 ms difference between displays. When I mess up my movement buffering 1/10th of the time instead of 1/100th of the time normally, it's pretty significant. I regularly input buffered movements around 8-10 frames before the movement is possible (10 frame is max) and any ms difference is noticeable in terms of how often my movement is disrupted because of latency.

 

[Thinkaman]

Do you know if the new SSB4 GC controller has the same imput lag as the original?

There's no mechanical reason it should possibly function different.

I know several humans, including myself, who notice as little as 2 ms difference between displays. When I mess up my movement buffering 1/10th of the time instead of 1/100th of the time normally, it's pretty significant. I regularly input buffered movements around 8-10 frames before the movement is possible (10 frame is max) and any ms difference is noticeable in terms of how often my movement is disrupted because of latency.

You're absolutely correct but I think you are off by a magnitude; 2 ms is less than an eighth of a frame, or 1% of an exceptionally fast human reaction time.

20 ms latency is a one-frame delay, and noticeable by extremely few people. But it can throw you off; normally you have to rely on the results to know it's there, since you can't automatically "feel" it.

Remember that full input lag is much higher than the random "5ms response rate!" numbers on the box; those are almost meaningless... The difference between a "2ms" and "5ms" display is much, much higher than 3 ms.

 

[Zarxrax]

Are you still going to be running this test now that the game has been out a while?

 

[Nysyr]

Well as someone who has used their 3ds as a controller for the Wii U (was doing 8 player smash and no room for more GC controllers lol), I can confirm that it lags a fair bit, especially with interference.

Not small lag either, in the order of 5-8 frames of lag.

 

[Squirty]

Are you still going to be running this test now that the game has been out a while?

Yep, I will eventually get around to it. It will take a couple more months probably, though. Let me know if anyone wants to donate a pro controller to disassemble or money for parts.

These are my parts for switch debouncing:
http://electronics.stackexchange.co...e-circuit/141114?iemail=1&noredirect=1#141114

Plus this for the diode:
1N4148 - http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/1N4148/1N4148FS-ND/458603

And this for the analogue switch, I'm still figuring out which variant of the 4066N switch I need...

...Just need to figure out how to wire up the analogue switch to my debounce circuit and then it's just a question of ordering the parts and doing the test...

 

[SkiDragon]

I haven't posted here in a long time, but I am definitely interested in the results of this. I'm sure any different will be fairly negligible, but there is no technical guarantee that a Gamecube controller being converted through USB will be faster than a straight wireless connection.

 

[Mechageo]

Wii U outputs both analogue and digital natively (it's your choice), but only one at a time (for example, you can't get analogue audio while outputting to hdmi, even though the connectors are separate).

Actually...

What to Do:
If you have not already, connect the Wii U console to the television or monitor via the HDMI cable. How to
Locate a Wii AV Cable or a Wii Component Video Cable.
Locate the proper inputs on your speaker system and connect the audio (red & white) inputs.
From the Wii U Menu, launch "System Settings."
Using the Left Stick, scroll to the "TV" icon and press the A button.
Select "TV Audio-Output Type."
Press the X button or select "Output-Cable Settings" at the top right.
Select either "Non-HDMI" or "Both" depending on what you are trying to accomplish.
Selecting "Non-HDMI" will output sound only through the device that is connected to the Wii AV Cable or Wii Component Video Cable.
Selecting "Both" will output sound out of the device connected to the HDMI cable and the device connected to the Wii AV Cable or Wii Component Video Cable.

 

[Squirty]

Actually...

Haha! Thanks for the tip, I had no idea!

 

[Mechageo]

Haha! Thanks for the tip, I had no idea!

You're welcome. I actually had the same issue only mine was a DVI monitor.

 

[erico9001]

A few months?
Could you do a simpler test for a temporary, less accurate result?

My suggestion is you set the A buttons on your gamepad and your gamecube contoller to shield. Video camera your screen as you press the A buttons with your fingers at the same time. You wouldn't want to do one with each hand though (usually there's a delay between the two), probably your index and middle finger of the same hand.

This is pretty much just to hold me over. It wouldn't take long at all, and would be very appreciated =]

 

[Squirty]

A few months?
Could you do a simpler test for a temporary, less accurate result?

My suggestion is you set the A buttons on your gamepad and your gamecube contoller to shield. Video camera your screen as you press the A buttons with your fingers at the same time. You wouldn't want to do one with each hand though (usually there's a delay between the two), probably your index and middle finger of the same hand.

This is pretty much just to hold me over. It wouldn't take long at all, and would be very appreciated =]

Hey erico9001, thanks for your interest and suggestion! In fact, even better and quicker than your suggested test would be to simply use the known theory surrounding these types of controllers:

I researched this, IIRC at least the Pro controller uses the newest version of bluetooth, apparently the latency is minimum 6ms, usually 12ms max, average at 8 or so. I don't have the links handy but I found other sites where people wanted to know the latency of bluetooth, and yeah it seems like it's around 6-12ms. Also the GC controller wouldn't be 0ms since it's wired, the device is USB which means it has a polling rate. 125hz/250/500/1000, the latency equals 8ms/4ms/2ms/1ms. I highly doubt it's 1000 since only high end gaming equipment focuses on 1000hz USB. It's probably 500hz or 250hz, which is 2ms or 4ms. None of these even hit one frame in game at 60fps, so yeah.

I am probably using the Pro controller because the latency is so low. Most TV's will be adding tons of latency anyways, depending on what you have.

From this, we can guess that the Wii U Pro controller will be a minimum of 2ms slower than the gamecube controller. In reality, it will probably be slower than that, but let's use that number for arguments sake...

Next, let's use the theory presented here, that I also alluded to in my OP:

http://www.teyah.net/sticklag/overview.html

This means that there is a 2ms period out of the 16.66ms frame cycle where the wii u pro controller will register on the frame after the gamecube controller. Do the math and this means that:

Assuming Wii U Pro Controller is 2ms slower than a Gamecube Controller, 12 in 100 button presses on a Wii U Pro Controller will register 1 frame later than the same button press on a Gamecube Controller.

In reality, due to interference, etc., the Wii U Pro Controller will likely be slower than the Gamecube controller by more than 2ms -- this means that there will be a greater likelyhood that the Wii U Pro controller will register on a frame later than the Gamecube controller.

So we already know that the Gamecube Controller should be faster than the Wii U Pro Controller, but my test will prove it and give actual statistical results that will show how different the latency on these controllers really is.

 

[erico9001]

Hey erico9001, thanks for your interest and suggestion! In fact, even better and quicker than your suggested test would be to simply use the known theory surrounding these types of controllers:

From this, we can guess that the Wii U Pro controller will be a minimum of 2ms slower than the gamecube controller. In reality, it will probably be slower than that, but let's use that number for arguments sake...

Next, let's use the theory presented here, that I also alluded to in my OP:

http://www.teyah.net/sticklag/overview.html

This means that there is a 2ms period out of the 16.66ms frame cycle where the wii u pro controller will register on the frame after the gamecube controller. Do the math and this means that:

Assuming Wii U Pro Controller is 2ms slower than a Gamecube Controller, 12 in 100 button presses on a Wii U Pro Controller will register 1 frame later than the same button press on a Gamecube Controller.

In reality, due to interference, etc., the Wii U Pro Controller will likely be slower than the Gamecube controller by more than 2ms -- this means that there will be a greater likelyhood that the Wii U Pro controller will register on a frame later than the Gamecube controller.

So we already know that the Gamecube Controller should be faster than the Wii U Pro Controller, but my test will prove it and give actual statistical results that will show how different the latency on these controllers really is.

I've heard talks of the USB connection for the gamecube controllers causing lag though. Also from what I've read, Wii U cycles through a lot of different paths so interference is not an issue with these sorts of controllers. It was an issue with some of the old wireless controllers, though. Anyways, I'm just asking you do this:

"Roughly a year before I began testing using one button wired to two PCBs, I attempted to perform input lag testing by hand. That is, using one hand to hit a button on one stick, and my other hand to hit the same button on another, on the same frame. I figured I would do it just to get some ballpark numbers and that hopefully with enough trials I would end up with fairly consistent number for input delay on a couple of my sticks.

This certainly does seem unscientific at first, but consider that several games require you to hit two buttons simultaneously on the same frame. 3rd Strike and KoFXIII both have EX moves with no input leniency, and players are used to performing multiple button presses on the same frame without issue.

I used a similar methodology as above when doing the manual tests, with the following exceptions:

- I used KoF XIII as the test game, simply hit a close C on both sticks simultaneously by hand.

- Due to the time intensive nature I only did 300 trials per stick

- In order to avoid any sort of mental bias towards one stick or the other, I did this while looking away from the screen and recorded my results via HDPVR, which I later transcribed.

- To account for any manual dexterity differences in my hands, I switched hands halfway through (at the 150 mark).

The results of this manual testing is surprising to look back on now. As you can see above, the results come out very, very close to the automated button test, as both sticks tested (the Joytron EXChanger and Qanba Q4RAF) are within 0.5 ms of the actual results. I would argue that manual testing is indeed a reliable way to roughly determine PCB lag, given that you perform enough trials and ensure you're using both hands equally on each side. Testing blindly also helps ensure you aren't subconsciously biased towards any one stick.

The results of the manual testing are shown on the "Raw Data" page after the Results."

Only for temporary results though, I'd still love to see the more accurate test

 

[Squirty]

I've heard talks of the USB connection for the gamecube controllers causing lag though. Also from what I've read, Wii U cycles through a lot of different paths so interference is not an issue with these sorts of controllers. It was an issue with some of the old wireless controllers, though. Anyways, I'm just asking you do this:

"Roughly a year before I began testing using one button wired to two PCBs, I attempted to perform input lag testing by hand. That is, using one hand to hit a button on one stick, and my other hand to hit the same button on another, on the same frame. I figured I would do it just to get some ballpark numbers and that hopefully with enough trials I would end up with fairly consistent number for input delay on a couple of my sticks.

This certainly does seem unscientific at first, but consider that several games require you to hit two buttons simultaneously on the same frame. 3rd Strike and KoFXIII both have EX moves with no input leniency, and players are used to performing multiple button presses on the same frame without issue.

I used a similar methodology as above when doing the manual tests, with the following exceptions:

- I used KoF XIII as the test game, simply hit a close C on both sticks simultaneously by hand.

- Due to the time intensive nature I only did 300 trials per stick

- In order to avoid any sort of mental bias towards one stick or the other, I did this while looking away from the screen and recorded my results via HDPVR, which I later transcribed.

- To account for any manual dexterity differences in my hands, I switched hands halfway through (at the 150 mark).

The results of this manual testing is surprising to look back on now. As you can see above, the results come out very, very close to the automated button test, as both sticks tested (the Joytron EXChanger and Qanba Q4RAF) are within 0.5 ms of the actual results. I would argue that manual testing is indeed a reliable way to roughly determine PCB lag, given that you perform enough trials and ensure you're using both hands equally on each side. Testing blindly also helps ensure you aren't subconsciously biased towards any one stick.

The results of the manual testing are shown on the "Raw Data" page after the Results."

Only for temporary results though, I'd still love to see the more accurate test

Oh, wow, I am surprised as well. This also sounds like the kind of test that anyone can do with a gamecube controller, a wii u pro controller, and a 60fps camera. Anyone up for it?

I will continue building my circuit for my test as fast as I can (I've got the parts and am half way through building it), but I don't have time to do this other test right now, regardless of how fast it is (sorry dude, life is crazy busy for me right now!).

Let us know if anyone else can do the quick interim slap test...

 

[erico9001]

Hey! Just looking for an update

 

[Squirty]

Hey! Just looking for an update

Believe it or not, I'm actually still working on this. My first prototype circuit didn't work as well as I wanted it to, so I'm digging a bit more into the electrical engineering of it to make sure I'm doing everything right.

Right now I'm actually not sure if the analogue switch used in the previous tests is something that should be just hooked up to separate arbitrary circuits. I'm looking into this here: http://electronics.stackexchange.co...use-an-analogue-switch-with-separate-circuits

Once that last bit of the problem is solved, I should be able to go ahead and order the new parts to build the circuit and start testing... I'm slowly getting closer, but yeah, it's slow 'cause I've never done any electrical engineering before (and I don't have much spare time!)

 

[TrevyTrev]

Any updates with this? In tournamrnts using a GC controller for whatever reason feels a little bit slower than a WiiU pro controller but maybe it's just me.

 

[Squirty]

Yes! Updates! I was just about to post my progress this weekend. Took me forever, but I finally learned enough electrical engineering to be happy with my circuit:

I just put this together two nights ago:

I've only tried it on LEDs so far, but it seems to be working perfectly -- I've been able to wire up my wii u pro controller's contacts and just need to wire up a couple gamecube controllers now. I hope to have results by the end of the weekend or so. It seems that all of the major hurdles are finally overcome, so I'm looking to wrap this up as fast as I can.

Regarding your "feel" in tournaments: I suspect that the mechanical properties of the controller have a much higher contributing factor to how fast a controller "feels" to a player than the electronic latency of the controller. For example, the time it takes to depress the analogue trigger on a GC may feel (and actually be) slower than pressing the shoulder button on the Wii U Pro. Also, the time it takes to move between buttons could also be a big contributing factor to the speed you "feel".

Thanks for your interest! I'll post back soon...

 

[Mechageo]

This is great. I've been wanting to learn some electrical engineering for various projects. What are you learning from?

 

[Squirty]

This is great. I've been wanting to learn some electrical engineering for various projects. What are you learning from?

Hah. Stack Exchange Electrical Engineering. I've been bugging people with really bad questions as I stumble my way around figuring things out.

My circuit is arguably overkill in a number of ways, but I wanted to make something that would have a cleanly debounced signal to remove any bias in results caused by button bounce behaviour that is different than what the gamepad may be expecting from its specific button hardware. Basically, if one controller has faster debounce logic than the other, I don't want to delay it with a test button that ends up being much bouncier than said debounce logic was designed for. -- Again, overkill, but I really want this test to be as bullet-proof as possible, just for the sake of... "fun"?

On the up side, since it uses a quad switch, I can press up to four buttons from separate controllers at the same time (within a few nanoseconds or so? Not sure exactly what the error is... still haven't been able to determine that from the spec sheet, but it's pretty small since the "turn on time" for an output switch is max 40ns). Maybe that'll be another question for Stake Exchange if the community doesn't hate me yet. haha

In a few months time, I'll eventually put together a blog post explaining exactly how to build one of these yourself, so others can use it for testing other controllers on other games. It's about a $20 part list and only takes about an hour to assemble if you can read the circuit diagram. The hard part is getting the controller buttons' contacts hooked up, but with some cardboard, clothes pin, and telephone wire, I seem to have come up with a decent solution.

(Also, I'm a software developer who's programmed a micro-controller in assembly in school and have been doing pro game dev for about 4.5 years now, so I'm quite familiar with the software and theory side of games.)

 

[Squirty]

Man, scrubbing through video counting these results is tedious.

Anyway, I've made 500 button presses in one test so far. I'd like to do another couple configurations as well. So far I've counted 100 of the button presses... and...

Tie between Wii U Pro and Gamecube: 41 / 100 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 1 frame later than Gamecube controller: 58 / 100 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 2 frames later than Gamecube controller: 1 / 100 presses

With my very small sample size (so far), this means approximately 59% of the time a Wii U Pro controller will register at least 1 frame later than a Gamecube controller.

I'll keep updating as I slowly churn through these results. I will also be testing with 2 Gamecube controllers AND 1 Wii U Pro controller, just to get some extra data. Please let me know if there are any specific configurations you'd like me to test with...

Update edit:

Tie between Wii U Pro and Gamecube: 84 / 201 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 1 frame later than Gamecube controller: 114 / 201 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 2 frames later than Gamecube controller: 3 / 201 presses

 

[wizrad]

This is very interesting and I am extremely appreciative of your work here. As a Pro Controller fan, it leads me to wonder: are an extra button and digital triggers worth 2 frames of lag? … well, maybe it will when I git gud, but I can't even tell right now, so I think I can deal with 1/30th of a second of lag!

Edit: Looking at the circuit you posted again, I don't see anything I recognize as a GameCube controller adapter, are you using one?

 

[Squirty]

This is very interesting and I am extremely appreciative of your work here. As a Pro Controller fan, it leads me to wonder: are an extra button and digital triggers worth 2 frames of lag? … well, maybe it will when I git gud, but I can't even tell right now, so I think I can deal with 1/30th of a second of lag!

Edit: Looking at the circuit you posted again, I don't see anything I recognize as a GameCube controller adapter, are you using one?

Yes, I am using the Wii U Gamecube USB controller adapter. In my final results video/post I will go over all of the version numbers and test setup. Note: the test isn't finished yet -- I still need to do a test with 1 Wii U Pro & 3 gamecube controllers... I hope this will expose any problems in my test setup (it should be very rare, if ever, that a gamecube controller would register on a different frame than another gamecube controller -- only reason for this would be the serial nature of the communication channel or a problem with my circuit).

 

[Zionaze]

I LOVE YOUUUUU
no srsly this is beyond helpful and finalized my decision in buying a wii u pro controller

 

[GhostUrsa]

This makes me hope I can get a modded Pro controller that can be plugged into the Gamecube adapter. Or a gamecube controller modded to a similar shape and layout to the Pro controller. :-(

 

[Mechageo]

Man, scrubbing through video counting these results is tedious.

Anyway, I've made 500 button presses in one test so far. I'd like to do another couple configurations as well. So far I've counted 100 of the button presses... and...

Tie between Wii U Pro and Gamecube: 41 / 100 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 1 frame later than Gamecube controller: 58 / 100 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 2 frames later than Gamecube controller: 1 / 100 presses

With my very small sample size (so far), this means approximately 59% of the time a Wii U Pro controller will register at least 1 frame later than a Gamecube controller.

I'll keep updating as I slowly churn through these results. I will also be testing with 2 Gamecube controllers AND 1 Wii U Pro controller, just to get some extra data. Please let me know if there are any specific configurations you'd like me to test with...

Update edit:

Tie between Wii U Pro and Gamecube: 84 / 201 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 1 frame later than Gamecube controller: 114 / 201 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 2 frames later than Gamecube controller: 3 / 201 presses

Which button is being pressed on each controller?

 

[Squirty]

Which button is being pressed on each controller?

A button. Comparing the frames of a Pikachu nutral A attack (seems to make for good contrast against dark background of the Punch Out stage). I can press most any button on the controller -- any suggestions for different test method?

 

[Mechageo]

A button. Comparing the frames of a Pikachu nutral A attack (seems to make for good contrast against dark background of the Punch Out stage). I can press most any button on the controller -- any suggestions for different test method?

I know you're not setup for this, but I'd like to know what the delay is when pressing LT to block on the Pro Controller versus the time it takes to depress the GameCube analog shoulder button before it activates a block or jump input.

The Pro Controller may feel faster due to not having that mechanical delay.

 

[Squirty]

Mmhmm. I know some tourneys allow removal of the springs from the shoulder buttons, which probably makes both controllers on equal ground, mechanically speaking.

But if you aren't removing the springs... it becomes more of a question of "How fast can you pull down and release a trigger?" (and that's a player thing, not a controller thing... which is awful for deciding on what controller you want, honestly).

(As a side note, in case anyone looking at this isn't aware, smash bros will treat a partial trigger press, even if it doesn't click the button, as an action -- This probably means that the controller is just watching the trigger value change from frame-to-frame, so the game may actually respond to the trigger much faster than you'd expect, possibly as "fast" as if it were a button press (even though it "feels" slower)... Testing for how the game interprets trigger value changes sounds like something best explored in an emulator -- And I feel like someone else has already researched this, but I don't know where... EDIT: That was all wrong, I got it in my mind that it was like metroid prime, but it's just a simple threshold check, my bad.)

 

[Mechageo]

In fact, Smash Bros for Wii U doesn't count the button press at the end at all. De-springed controllers don't register on the Wii U.

 

[Squirty]

Oh wow. I was completely wrong, sorry dudes. Smash has never behaved with triggers like I said. Somehow I was got it in my mind that brawl was like metroid prime where a fast movement would count as a press, but no:

• melee had shield density control on the trigger
• brawl only cared about the click-button and ignored trigger analog value
• wii u uses a trigger value threshold (above threshold is a press, below threshold is not a press -- no care about speed of press)

Alright, so yeah, no getting around that one except to re-assign gamecube L/R to be some other button. :/ I could see that releasing a gamecube trigger in Wii U could be slow because there's quite a bit of travel time between fully depressed and the button-release threshold...

 

[Earthboundy]

100% n00b question, but if the pro controller is plugged into the Wii U does that effect latency?

 

[GhostUrsa]

The Wii U pro controller only charges via USB and doesn't send any button data, so there would still be latency. Sorry mate.

 

[Earthboundy]

The Wii U pro controller only charges via USB and doesn't send any button data, so there would still be latency. Sorry mate.

Doesn't effect me, just curious since I know you can use a wireless xbox one controller on PC if you plug it in

How does one work yet the other doesn't?

 

[Squirty]

Doesn't effect me, just curious since I know you can use a wireless xbox one controller on PC if you plug it in

How does one work yet the other doesn't?

Microsoft specifically designed the xbox one controller to be a PC and xbox one peripheral, which is why it also has USB communication functionality. This extra USB communication functionality increases production cost of the controller due to the extra hardware needed (and also increases development cost due to extra software development and maintenance costs).

Nintendo likely chose USB as a charging/power source for the controller because it's convenient for the end user: With USB charging as an option, you can charge your controller using the Wii U's USB ports or use your own AC->USB adapter. It's actually nice of them to choose this route instead of a proprietary connector, since you can use any mini-USB cable if the shipped cable breaks or is lost.

It's a really good question, though, and one lots of people ask -- It's somewhat unfortunate for competitive play, though, as we care about latency and consistency of a controller's performance. It's virtually impossible to notice this level of latency or inconsistency with wireless connection, and really doesn't matter when playing "for fun" (which is Nintendo's primary audience). But it's interesting to see that they still respect and want to serve competitive players with the wired gamecube controller adapter, though they probably did so simply to support player preference rather than for latency/consistency reasons, as wireless communication is already "pretty good".

EDIT: Oh, and I could see switching between wireless/wired during play could be a tricky thing to implement: one friend: "Oh, it's done charging, I'm going to unplug you now" -- followed by a second or two of no controller communication, the other friend: "Bah, you killed me!". Would kinda feel like going backwards in terms of technology where you could be affected by someone unplugging your controller.

EDIT again: Actually, I'm pretty curious: is there a hiccup in controller responsiveness when you unplug your xbox one controller from your xbox? If not, your xbox one controller is likely connection wirelessly all the time, like the wii u pro controller does.

 

[GhostUrsa]

Not sure about the Xbone's controller, but I know that was the case for the Dualshock 3 if you unplugged it after charging to go sit somewhere else. The controller had to resync for some reason, and I'd sometimes find myself in controller port 2.

 

[erico9001]

Man, scrubbing through video counting these results is tedious.

Anyway, I've made 500 button presses in one test so far. I'd like to do another couple configurations as well. So far I've counted 100 of the button presses... and...

Tie between Wii U Pro and Gamecube: 41 / 100 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 1 frame later than Gamecube controller: 58 / 100 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 2 frames later than Gamecube controller: 1 / 100 presses

With my very small sample size (so far), this means approximately 59% of the time a Wii U Pro controller will register at least 1 frame later than a Gamecube controller.

I'll keep updating as I slowly churn through these results. I will also be testing with 2 Gamecube controllers AND 1 Wii U Pro controller, just to get some extra data. Please let me know if there are any specific configurations you'd like me to test with...

Update edit:

Tie between Wii U Pro and Gamecube: 84 / 201 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 1 frame later than Gamecube controller: 114 / 201 presses
Wii U Pro controller button press registers 2 frames later than Gamecube controller: 3 / 201 presses

Was there ever instances where the Gamecube controller came out a frame slower than the Pro controller?

 

[Raijinken]

Was there ever instances where the Gamecube controller came out a frame slower than the Pro controller?

By the posted math, no, but I'm also interested in confirmation.

Also, this should totally be reflected in the thread title and/or original post.

 

[Mechageo]

Is the featured video about this your video?