Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[Dabuz]

Claimed your (as in Bardull) play is null, claim your slot (based on Marshy's stuff) is scummy.

Hell, I even made it clear my case was based on the hydras with Marshy.

Vote: Bardull

D1 reeked of Marshy hydras trying to deflect wagons from Scary. (PG. 19/ 20/ 26, 28-30) His town leans on Scary throughout this game didn't have strong justification and he pretty much tried to write the slot off as flailing town this entire game.

His vote on me near the start of D2 looked gross when his response to my 1216 (where I go through the reasons he scum reads me) was met with the response of "naw youve literally been scum in every game ive wanted to lynch you in but one and thats where you were the doc playing like scum. **** outta hear" in 1252, showing he couldn't defend his read on me, and by the time he voted me on D2, I don't recall him ever finding more reasoning to scum read me.

His entire play of trying to support all the major wagons of D1 except Scary + DSH looked oppurtunistic.

Town PR (now just Ranmaru) also brought up good points in 1488.

 

[BarDulL]

man. if you don't think i'm immediately scum you shouldn't be ready to hardbody me, is all i'm sayin', since it seems there is room for doubt on your end. regardless, your case looks exactly just like J's, to which i have the same response.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Vote: Gorf

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Where did this Ranmaru dislike come from? I don't recall you saying anything significant about the slot before.

It's because I haven't said anything significant about the slot yet. I've been pretty oblivious of him except for early game where I thought he argued pretty solidly - I do think that was Glyph's doing though. However, Nabe has raised some solid points, Ran has kept pretty quiet yesterDay and he is one of the three people that were potentially kept from killing on N2 [unless you think I've sabotaged my own scummate's NK on N1]. That alone warrants his lynch unless you can tell me why KwK or J are better lynches.

Him trying to draw attention towards KwK now after all the efforts of trying to show us why MC + Nabe are the remaining scumbags reeks of flailing. He even tries to hold KwKs argument on why Scary must have been scum against hi. That's ridiculous.

@ ~ Gheb ~ which of Bardull and Ran do you prefer? You think they are both scum together, right? But if one is town which is it?

Neither.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@mod request votecount

@Maximum Carnage
Where do you stand on KVK?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

yeah that's right where do you stand on koopa vs kefka
but after that same question with KWK

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Why?

Because I don't care about any of them.

If it is relevant I'll comment on it.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

@Red Ryu specifically.

I read your case, I approve.

J I am more willing to give credit on how he approached scary, Ran is a different situation. I think his approach is more likely a bus of the ones who were pushing Scary right now. If not Gorf though, him being voteless I get could be why his "interest" is lower. It does make me look back on the situations before. I think I want to put him in the J/Dabuz category where I believe their pushes. I could be wrong on J though between the two, but right now I don't care to look at Dabuz or J today.

Bardull is another who I think his slot is weird on Scary scum. That was a read I agreed with that Marshy threw out but I can easily see that and deflecting away from Scary.

KWK push is bad today, we should press them for more info but I do not think with what is on the table lynching them is the best course of action.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Vote: @ ranmaru


What you're saying has 0% to do with what I'm saying. If you were town with a scum-read on me, if you were Careful Methodical Townie, you would have weighed all evidence on me with a level head. You did not do that. You went through the thread, gathering posts that fit our interpretation of the thread.

Now, you could have been town. Say you already had it in your head that I was scum with MC. You could have approached a reread and subsequent case with that bias, and looked for all of the posts that fit your bias, while unintentionally excluding those posts that didn't fit. Could have.


But here's the incriminating bit: you actually couldn't have. You intentionally and with presence of mind omitted the post from your case (cherry-picking).

Ranmaru willfully weighed a post by me (talking about my interactions with MC throughout the game) against his connections case that was centered on my interactions with MC throughout the game,
noted that it was related to his argument,
decided that it wasn't necessary to bring it up,
and willfully excluded it from his case.


Ranmaru put this case forward as if it were his actual train of thought through his read of the thread. But it cannot possibly be a townie's train of thought, because he has just stated that there was a post he consciously looked at and decided it didn't fit. Townies don't do that.

Bear in mind, we are not talking about an irrelevant post. We are talking about a post that is exactly the opposite of his case's interpretation of the thread. Instead of attempting to take it apart to make his case, he avoided dealing with it. It's a post made by the target of his case, about the content of his case, posted prior to his case.




Don't be facetious. You know that what I'm saying has nothing to do with these points, and everything to do with the Nabe/MC argument you're trying to put behind you. I am not attempting to counter a case with my argument. I am calling you scum.

Yup.

Vote: Ranmaru

 

[Vult Redux]

@ Vult Redux : Where are you? Need you to state what wagons between Nabe/KwK/Bardull you agree/disagree to and why. That would be dashing.

I was busy this weekend.

Absolutely not on Nabe. We are not wasting a lynch.

I'm interested in Bardull and am reading up on his wagon today. I will probably have time to give an opinion on KVK too.

 

[Vult Redux]

i honestly share his sentiments about you on the premise that i'm 99% positive you fake claimed doom to get people off you.

"Doom" a very specific word to use and I believe it fits the flavor accurately.

Have you taken that into account?

 

[Vult Redux]

YesterDay DSH, Scary, Acro and Gorf were roleblocked, toDay it's J, KWK, Ran and I. Nobody got blocked twice but the NK still failed both times. The most obvious conclusion would be that Scary carried out the kill and got blocked N1 and that N2 the kill either got blocked or the target got protected. But I doubt the latter happened because scum wouldn't target MC. So we can assume that the kill toNight came from J, KWK, Ran

I'm not sure I would agree completely that MC wouldn't be a kill choice, but I think those players are a fair list considering I'm not townreading any of them unless I'm mixing up replacements.

you can exclude me from that pool though because it'd assume that I've roleblocked my own scummate's NK N1.

has there been another night action and/or mechanic that verifies the people you blocked? Iirc it's based on your word and that there have been no counterclaims (players saying they successfully submitted an action)? Or did one of the former players confirm they were blocked N1?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't think there's a way for me to prove that I did what I claim to have done, if that's what you're asking. I'd gladly prove my abilities but some dumbass keeps prohibiting voteblocking and roleblocking and since I'm not allowed to use the same ability twice in a row, I can't put people at the bottom of the NAR either. Next Night I can only either put people on top of the NAR or I can use my ability that prevents players from receiving NA results. The latter could prove that I'm a gadgeteer but no more than that and I don't think it's worth it as our direction seems to be pretty clear right now.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

My #2067's purpose is to show anti-townness, such as reasonless votes and throwing away dayplay, and I'm trying to pinpoint these and try to go into a better direction.

@ BarDulL : Vote KwK or Nabe if you want to save yourself, otherwise you die.
@ Dabuz : I want you to look at my KwK case, and talk to me about Marshy/Bardull. Do you think this lynch has any weight to it?
@Red Ryu: How is your read shaping up on Bardull/KwK? I know you won't want to lynch Nabe ToDay, so how about a compromise of KwK? Do you think this (the Bardull) lynch has any weight to it? What do you think of Gheb's vote/reasoning?
@ Vult Redux : Where are you? Need you to state what wagons between Nabe/KwK/Bardull you agree/disagree to and why. That would be dashing.
@Maximum Carnage: I think you should vote onto KwK. Yet, your opinion is no where really. I want you to think about it. I can't do anything with people who simply vote without reason (or public reason) and others letting that happen.

"@ BarDulL : Here's an undeliverable ultimatum wherein I threaten you to vote where I tell you or get lynched. P.S. Don't look at me.
@ Dabuz : I want you to look at and talk about players who aren't me. How great are those lynches, right?
@Red Ryu: I know you won't want to lynch Nabe ToDay, so how is your read shaping up on three other players who aren't me?
@ Vult Redux : Where are you? Need you to state what wagons that aren't mine you agree/disagree to and why. That would help distract from me.
@Maximum Carnage: You're dangerous because I don't know what read you'll have on me when you come back to the thread. Think about KwK, who isn't me."

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'm trying to ... go into a better direction.

This has been a Nabe Translations production
All rights reserved by the original script
Storyboarding by Nabe
Sound Design by Nabe
Direction by Nabe
(C) 2014 Nabe Translations​

 

[Vult Redux]

@ Vult Redux KwK

I think your points on KwK are somewhere between okay and eh.
- Posting reads without fully explaining is more a result of time/motivation limitations than it is intentionally done by scum to get the upper hand. That has been my case for most of this game for example. When he gets around to it I think he should elaborate on those.
- Focusing on concrete information is indeed safe but also is more useful than working with less-concrete information. Town do it too for good reason. It's null.
- If he is flip-flopping and/or non-committal about his read on your slot then that would be of interest to me and I'm interested on seeing what he says about that.

 

[Vult Redux]

@ Vult Redux : Where are you? Need you to state what wagons that aren't mine you agree/disagree to and why. That would help distract from me."

I'm not sure I 100% agree with this but like your humor and especially your #2044. IMO Ran wagon is very viable but I want to make sure that I like it better than Bardull and KwK wagons before giving it a vote.

I get the point about Bardull is scapegoating me (ref: #2013). There are other aspects I'm fuzzy on though. e.g.

marshy has been distancing himself from Scary in a pretty obvious fashion imo

can you talk about this more?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Idk, if the argument is that the marshy hydras were tryna deflect a scary lynch I don't think it's so. He wasn't for it, but I would have remembered him trying to deflect pressure from the scary haters, and I read him as actually just misreading him. I remember him saying helpless townie, which is exactly how he misread scary in F&L2. If marshys scum that ain't why.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Idk, if the argument is that the marshy hydras were tryna deflect a scary lynch I don't think it's so. He wasn't for it, but I would have remembered him trying to deflect pressure from the scary haters, and I read him as actually just misreading him. I remember him saying helpless townie, which is exactly how he misread scary in F&L2. If marshys scum that ain't why.

At the same time, we need to consider it.

I agree this shouldn't be a main point to lynch his slot but we shouldn't throw away how he treated Scary as being misread. It's possible he was trying this and I am aware of how he misread Scary in F&L but at points we do need to think about how he did this in this game rather than just meta.

 

[Dabuz]

@Mod Request Votecount

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

At the same time, we need to consider it.

I agree this shouldn't be a main point to lynch his slot but we shouldn't throw away how he treated Scary as being misread. It's possible he was trying this and I am aware of how he misread Scary in F&L but at points we do need to think about how he did this in this game rather than just meta.

It IS considered. How he treated scary does not read as them being buddies. It is a moot point IMO. The meta is there because of what directly JUST recently happened. Iirc scary's never been scum before these two games, and in F&L marshy was there to read his play, and misread it the same way he seems to have here. That is a legitimate connection, and even though the fact that he wasn't supporting a scary lynch is true, doesn't mean that that damns him of being scum. What, am I scum since I wanted to off JD D1? I don't buy the connection.

 

[ranmaru]

Responding to things now.

 

[ranmaru]

Let's be honest here, the first thing you quoted IIRC was from D2. As a hydra who joined the Day late, I don't think what he asked for was unreasonable at all, pretty much a solid null.

I disagree. Town should try to find the reasoning for their suspects/someone who is being read as scum themselves, because otherwise if others spoonfeed it to them, it can taint their own opinions and give them an easy button to gaining 'their' reads.

Second thing is similar where he was a hydra that joined late, a player who was in the game since at least the start of D2 should have more reasoning than role analysis that but in KwK's case it's like, he even brought up before he wanted a summary on why Scary is scum and it seems null to me.

Again, refer to above. This is theory related and I hate it when people let themselves get caught up with a summary. I even said not to tell him. Now, we are at the point where people accept it and let him skate on without reads. These two points are my weaker points, and can understand if some people won't accept them.

See above, although I do think a player who just joined in shouldn't be trying to force others to make a stance based on a role claim.

Then you can see that as something scum would do? Or either way?

When it comes to his response to your Nabe case, I read it that he thought the case was dumb because of Nabe's doom status, and his implication is he gut feels Nabe is scum but doom status makes it not a worthy avenue. Although if that's also in response to your case on MC, I do agree he should elaborate just so his reasoning is out in the open.

I think it is fine for him to call out my theory as you did, as long as (just like you said), he gives the reasoning, but he never has (well, on Nabe especially). It seemed like he said "I have a strange feeling about him" to give SOME stance to show he isn't ignoring the Nabe issue, but also to stay distanced from it too. He's keeping a distance and doesn't go into it, which shows he has no intent to FIND ACTUAL SCUM. He just wants to make others (me) look bad instead. That is what is suspicious to me. He tries to make the appearance of "Oh yeah I see Nabescum but only slightly so I can call you dumb and say that there should be no reason that you (as a townie) are saying this"

100% agree he needs to explain his should live/ should die list and that we should all be pushing to understand his reads.

Ok.

I do want to see more from KwK than "this guy was on the fence till it's time to bus, they must be scum." We are on Day 3 and he had the night phase to catchup and have some more thoughts.

Ok.

You have a good point that KwK needs to explain why he thinks the way he does more and this is actually a pretty decent avenue to push down because we definitely shouldn't let him skate by and say his reads without the logic behind those reads. I'm still looking at Bardull as lynch priority #1 today just as an FYI.

Alright then.

For Bardull, I think his wagon is fine. The people on the wagon toDay were "1. Bardull (6) dabuz, dabuz, J, Gheb, MC, KWK" The way I see it is I know i'm town, I trust J, Gheb i'm not sure on but still want to lean Indy, I don't distrust MC, and I need more from KwK to make an opinion on him.

Ok, but do you think they have given enough substantiation themselves regarding the Bardull wagon (Besides KwK)? (The same thing is happening to me now..., and I feel the same way about my wagon as I do about his, I feel they should substantiate their reasoning, to me this is feeling like another Fire Emblem Awakening)

 

[ranmaru]

- Posting reads without fully explaining is more a result of time/motivation limitations than it is intentionally done by scum to get the upper hand. That has been my case for most of this game for example. When he gets around to it I think he should elaborate on those.

I know it has been your case as well, and I mentioned that KwK was along your slot for most unsubstantiated reads. Yet it doesn't mean I can't try to read his actions for what they are. Him openly roleblocking me, while having a town read on me earlier, and not answering why he RB'd me, shows scum intent to me. Both alignments can have time restraints as this is a game, but town would at least humor me with why they believe it to be the case. It is not protown to roleblock a town read without even explaining why they did so, and expecting that person to die because of their claim of 'I stopped the nk'.

- Focusing on concrete information is indeed safe but also is more useful than working with less-concrete information. Town do it too for good reason. It's null.

No. It's not null, because he uses it to force a stance on others who disagreed with it. That is the malicious part of it. If it were simply "Yeah I agree, he botched his claim and I don't see that as possible from a town mindset/player" without saying "Whoever fencesitted on his role is scum" then I might not have a problem with it, because I can't really find any scum intent with that alone.

- If he is flip-flopping and/or non-committal about his read on your slot then that would be of interest to me and I'm interested on seeing what he says about that.

Ok.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran is a different situation. I think his approach is more likely a bus of the ones who were pushing Scary right now.

KWK push is bad today

Red Ryu, what does the Red even mean and how does it make sense? How does my push of Scary compare with J's? Why do you give credit to him only?

Blue, why is it bad?

 

[ranmaru]

"Again, refer to above. This is theory related and I hate it when people let themselves get caught up with a summary. I even said not to tell him. Now, we are at the point where people accept it and let him skate on without reads reasoning. These two points are my weaker points, and can understand if some people won't accept them."

Also, I can understand someone using a summary if it's a really long day. 100+ pages, or 100 players (I actually played in a travisty with 100 players, obviously near the end people skimmed lol) Yet I would expect them to come to their own conclusions, with reasoning.

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

"Come on guys, people want us to be more creative!"

"There's not enough TIME!"

"S-sorry g-g-guys."

"I don't care about this game. It's boring."

"Come on, it's easy!"

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

Sorry about absence, work/school is kicking us in the arse and we don't have time to talk much. There are large chunks of the game that have been barely skimmed or glossed over entirely.

We did have a bit of time in the Night to read and talk which is what led us to changing our mind on Town PR/Ran's slot and get some reads on other slots.

To clarify about his Nabe case. It has no merit to me and none of the reasons I dislike Nabe line up with it. It hinges almost entirely on some connection between MC and Nabe which he had to reach really hard to justify, and I find it hard to see how he ever actually believed it. And then to back off and "concede" that it wasn't worth pursuing when it got a bad reaction? That just reads as scummy to me because it's like he tried to push a mislynch avenue (who the hell in their right mind tries to lynch someone a Day before they're claiming they will die? Just wait and see if that happens. No sane person would ever suggest lynching Nabe in this position) on someone who is either

a) going to die

or

b) going to be revealed for a liar in a matter of Days

So why try to lynch him before either of these have a chance to occur? It's honestly just plain stupid. And the connection to MC? Equally stupid. It doesn't exist. In fact, I see a disconnect in their interactions that makes them unlikely mates.

Here seems like a good place to note that I have reflected on Nabe and come to the conclusion that he's likely town.

The Doom ability was one that I had as mafia in Overswarm's FFT game, and it worked as Nabe described. It is possible that this ability also exists in this game, but I don't think this is the case. I'll list it as a possibility though. So once again, Nabe claiming Doom means one of two things:

a) He is going to die

or

b) He is going to be revealed for a liar in a matter of Days (aka prolonging his death)

The intention for saying he was targeted by Doom for a) is clear. He is being open and letting town know what is up. And it's most likely a mafia ability. So if a) is the case he can't be scum.

The intention for saying he was targeted by Doom for b) is also pretty easy to grasp at surface level. Nabe was under pressure, and there were powerhouse slots (MC and marshy's slot) gunning for his lynch D2 at the time. So coming into D2 with a claim that he's going to die on N4 would spare Nabe the trouble of fighting a lynch backed by those two slots (aka a complete nightmare). As scum, this would just be prolonging his death until D5 when everyone would realize he is still alive. It's possible he was banking on avoiding a lynch and having a mafia win before D5, but I think it is more likely he is town, for two reasons.

The same intent applies to Nabe being town: He didn't want to deal with fighting off marshy/Ryker to avoid a lynch, have town inevitably lynch him after wasting the Day with Ryker/marshy propaganda, and then waste another mislynch for town. But there's a lot more town intent to trying to delay your death and get more discussion about other things going than there is scum intent. Scum wants to survive to the very end of the game, prolonging their death but still being sure to die doesn't help them.

Ran's dumb/scum case tipped the scales for me though, on what was really a 50/50 call basically.

Ran came in so hard against Nabe despite the Doom claim with a push that no one in their right mind would make that really makes me believe Ran is scum who knows his team doesn't have a Doom ability, and wanted to get a mislynch on Nabe. I don't see any other way about it. He came in so strongly with that case and then backed off so quickly when it didn't get support that it really didn't look like he was all that invested in those reads. It was more he wanted to see if town would bite and realized they didn't so he reeled his line back in empty.

tl;dr - Nabe is town, Ran is scum

A Ran or a Bardull lynch would make me happy at this point. I also like Gheb more seeing his thoughts line up with mine. His fence sitting reads more as caution than trying to see if his scummate could be saved (where Scary is concerned) upon review and his reasoning on Bardull is solid. It's basically where I'm at + the connection to Scary

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

And I've gotta go again. ****'s going down in my house and I'd like to escape from it

Vote: Ran

 

[ranmaru]

@ Kreative Whiz Kids :

I will respond to your response later, KwK, but you have still yet to:

Give reasoning for the rest of your reads/list.
Explain why you chose me as an RB, this does not substantiate why you did so:

We did have a bit of time in the Night to read and talk which is what led us to changing our mind on Town PR/Ran's slot and get some reads on other slots.

So essentially "We chose ran because we talked about it over the night" is not reasoning. It is how your reads were formed, not why.

Specifically, you need to show when and why exactly town pr became suspicious to you, and led to your choice of roleblocking.

You talk about my case having nothing to do with your strange feeling of him. What exactly gave you the strange feeling then?

Can you talk about my points about you focusing on Scary's claim only. Why didn't you care about Scary's play? (You certainly have no problem with Day Play now)

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

Stop contorting things into your own little black and white world for a minute.

"Look at the world in colours! You need to get creative!"

There is no "Dayplay > Night Actions" or vice versa. There is only things in the game that happen. Isolate them, analyze them, use common sense, and don't try to categorize everything.

Sometimes Dayplay is super important, central to a point even. And sometimes you can't get anything out of it. You don't look at a slot that's been playing pretty good but has a sane cop guilty on them and say "welp Dayplay > Night actions" just like you don't let a slot that everyone is dead set on being scum for their play live just because they are a confirmed Priest or something. You realize everything matters, you put it in perspective, and you weight it accordingly.

Sure you can look at Scary's play and say "oh well he was kind of lurky and doing nothing like he always is regardless of alignment" and probably not lynch him, let him coast, and call for the vig to shoot him. Or you can realize he claimed an impossible role, literally scum slipping and revealing himself to be 100% scum, and lynch him. In that scenario, of course I didn't give a damn about Scary's play. Because coming into the game having not even read Scary's play, I could see the claim and go "huh, well guess he's scum."

See how that works?

"B-but there... m-more scum."

"That's why you need to mix it up, and get creative!"

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

"GUYS! He wanted us to do MORE! We need to DIG THROUGH THE THREAD and EXPLAIN THINGS!"

"That sounds really boring."

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

Oh wow I didn't even realize he was trying to call me scum for replacing into a game with almost 50 pages and asking for someone to give me notes of the important bits

As if I'm actually going to be able to read the whole game thoroughly

yeah no

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I like this schtick. It makes me laugh.

 

[ranmaru]

"GUYS! He wanted us to do MORE! We need to DIG THROUGH THE THREAD and EXPLAIN THINGS!"

You going to do that, though? Or is this all you are willing to give me?

 

[ranmaru]

Also, going to work on a paper now. I might respond to things tomorrow, but @ Kreative Whiz Kids please answer my questions, that's all I ask. Thanks.

I do have one more important question. On my town flip, who do you intend to look at and why? Now IF I were to flip scum, who would you look into after and why? This question can be answered by anyone voting me or currently supporting my wagon as well.

 

[#HBC | J]

Hey Ran, I responded to your super important stuff you said needed to be done.

Oh wait guess it was never needed nor truly cared about.

This game.

Anyways super busy: play I'm assistant directing is this week and had to fire the tech director so now I'm doing it. Gonna be very in and out for a bit.

 

[Dabuz]

It's because I haven't said anything significant about the slot yet. I've been pretty oblivious of him except for early game where I thought he argued pretty solidly - I do think that was Glyph's doing though. However, Nabe has raised some solid points, Ran has kept pretty quiet yesterDay and he is one of the three people that were potentially kept from killing on N2 [unless you think I've sabotaged my own scummate's NK on N1]. That alone warrants his lynch unless you can tell me why KwK or J are better lynches.

Him trying to draw attention towards KwK now after all the efforts of trying to show us why MC + Nabe are the remaining scumbags reeks of flailing. He even tries to hold KwKs argument on why Scary must have been scum against hi. That's ridiculous.

Talk to me a bit more on this, I read Nabe's case and got that he thinks Ranmaru is cherry picking stuff to hold against him and force what Nabe feels is a manufactured read on him and while the case hits some decent points, i'm not sure what to think of this because i'm trying to look at Ran's intent in pushing towards Nabe (and now KwK) but away from Bardull, the simplest answer is that Ranmaru and Bardull are scum. However if Bardull is town then why would Ranmaru scum push to keep Bardull alive? I can't reason why Ranmaru scum would push Bardull town so I think Bardull's flip would really clarify a lot here. I felt like Ranmaru had a presence yesterDay but that his presence was very focused on a few things; most of which being the Scary push IIRC. I think we can both agree J isn't a lynch target ATM and KWK is currently in the pool of needs to be pressured but not necessarily lynched.

KwK's case pretty much tears down why Ran's pushes were bad and it's fair enough, i'll wait to see what Ranmaru has to respond with. However it doesn't answer what I see as the biggest piece of the puzzle, why would Ranmaru push in the way he did? He was not in a position where as scum he'd need to do much yet he put his neck on the line to push away from Bardull. KwK, can you do me a favor and answer the other stuff in Ran's 2110?

I'll look at Ran's responses to me later.

 

[BarDulL]

dabuz there are a zillion reasons why ranmaru as scum would want to keep me alive. it could be a facade so that ran looks good on my flip for instance.

i'm basically convinced at this point that dabuz really wants me dead for reasons that literally make no sense or aren't well thought out. i'm up for his lynch as well at this point.

 

[BarDulL]

btw i'm not saying ranmaru is scum. he's a bro but a man's gotta fight his own battles and he's in one right now.

on the side i'm ok with off'ing one of Gheb, MC, Dabuz, Vult, maybe KwK.