Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[#HBC | J]

MC+Nabe =/= mafia partners. The only theory I can see with them being together as scum is a whole can of worms I refuse to open with a certain word.

 

[ranmaru]

You're cute, J. Why are you fine with letting me, your biggest null, follow you onto Bardull without even trying to convince me? Even if you think Nabe isn't of importance, why not talk about him?

 

[#HBC | J]

Nabe was right, you are different. Since when did you become a hostile player? I want you to follow me onto Bardull because you have a vote and I want it.

I mean we could talk about Nabe all we want and that's fine and dandy, however, Nabe won't be lynched. There is no reason to at all. If he is scum, he is trapped by all means of the word. Do you hope to gain a Nabe lynch with your vote and questioning? To acquire such a thing, you need to break down the walls of why we shouldn't just wait for Nabe to be found "guilty" (by being alive at a certain point) or "innocent" (by being dead at a certain point). He's pretty much a pariah and we can gain info off his flip by the time that point comes. Until then, I am watching Nabe with a glance but nothing to detract my attention from more important matters. (Bardull/Acro/Vult)

So again, why is Nabe a good vote for toDay?

 

[ranmaru]

I want you to follow me onto Bardull because you have a vote and I want it.

Not good enough. I'm not sold. I want you to talk about why Bardull is scum over Nabe. Not if we should wait for Nabe to die via mechanics and not by lynching. You also seem to town read him, so I would like to see how you can see Nabe in a town light from my case on him.

 

[#HBC | J]

Can I just say I don't agree to your case and we can call it even? I'd rather explain my scum-reads then my town-reads since when I did that D1, no one listened.

I can whip up a Bardull case. What you need to tell me though, is why have you dropped Bardull and are focusing on Nabe/MC? Has Bardull suddenly become town to you?

 

[#HBC | J]

Also, if you want my read on Nabe, seriously go read my post where I talk about him in-depth.

 

[ranmaru]

Well if you explain why you disagree. You can do it succinctly if you like, I promise I'll listen. I don't want you to feel like you shouldn't post why you disagree with me. That's all I really want, I just want to bounce things off of you.

No, he hasn't. I'm trying to re-evaluate him but I found MC/Nabe more suspicious. I re-read them, and that is how that case came into fruition. I would like a Bardull Case. To me, I think there is one scum in MC/Bardull, but I'm trying to find the right one.

 

[Dabuz]

@ ranmaru , did you visit anyone on N1?


Anyway, reading through your case I got that

You think Scary "botched" the claim, and believe that MC was using it to clear himself + Nabe and his focus was clearing over catching scum. I don't think it cleared them and it is a null tell because as town or scum MC would want to get clears anyway. Whether or not he really cared about the Scary wagon based on play is another issue and that's difficult to say he did care so i'd give your case points on that unless MC can dispel that argument because I can agree that MC didn't really care to push Scary on play rather than role.


The second part is complete WIFOM in that you're assuming MC is scum and looking to bus yet you can't really back it up except with a suspicion because his attitude towards Scary wasn't a conventional bus so much as it was a self clear method and using Scary to further his own influence this game, which IIRC someone said is standard OS meta and null. Busing Nabe hard this early on doesn't make any sense because even if it were successful, MC would be under scrutiny for pretty much "knowing" Nabe is scum and pressuring him so early. So I don't think based on your findings, Nabe scum = MC scum because MC's entire approach to Nabe was too, weird I guess, it's hard to describe it well. Maybe too transparent as a bus? I could see being scum and Nabe being town and MC just wanting to get an easy push (which ironically wasn't easy and on town flip would put MC in a bad spot because of how transparently bad his Nabe push was), I can't see as town why MC would make his Nabe approach and not approach other slots the same way, but at the same time as Scum it's not a good play.


Your Nabe case is much more solid and truthfully, if he didn't already condemn himself in a non-Lylo situation I'd consider him a lynch target. Reason being is that we have only 2 flips, 1 scum and 1 town. ToMorrow either Nabe dies from Doom or he doesn't and we kill him, there's no reason to kill him a Day early because we don't -need- to lynch scum toDay to not lose meaning it's not like he's gonna win the game by surviving another Day, and regardless he's dead on Day 4. If we were in Lylo i'd say the Doom claim could be a perfect scum ploy to win but well, we aren't in Lylo so it's hard to justify lynching a dead man over one of two people who look pretty scummy. (Bardull because of Marshy's play + connections to Scary, and Vult.)


Why do you disagree with the possible lynches of Bardull and Vult (at least that's the two you implied in 1956)? I remember D2 you had Bardull's slot (HBW) as your strongest scumread (post 1488)

 

[BarDulL]

the recap of my interaction with J:

J: (earlier on day 2) 'hbc/bardull are town with tons of swag '

>later on

J: 'i never said bardull/hbc was town and i think they are scum. long story short my read on hbc is that he tried to push jdietz so that scary could be saved. that was the whole plan. also bardull wasn't trying to body scary so he must be scum'

bardull: 'marshy was just being marshy and hardbodying people he thought were scum. also i didn't push scary for the same reason i didn't push dabuz.'

i feel like he's tunneling my slot and wants me to be a great piece to fit into his puzzle but i'm definitely a corner piece and he's trying to fit me into the center :-x.

@J i still don't really understand the whole story of you flipping on your town read of my slot...the story doesn't add up. if you can summarize your entire approach and conclusion to how i'm scum that would be great. but i'm telling you that you're wrong and marshy was just being marshy while i was reading scary as null. but if you have a thorough explanation for it all then i'm down.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

MC+Nabe =/= mafia partners. The only theory I can see with them being together as scum is a whole can of worms I refuse to open with a certain word.

Let me open it, then!

If we assumed Ranmaru's hypothesis of a Scary / Nabe / MC team to be correct it'd mean that Nabe supposedly visited both of his scummates N1. He evidently visited MC on N1 and MC evidently didn't carry out any NA and N1 ... and since DSH has two MOD votes toDay it's safe to assume that MC didn't carry out any other NA N2 either. That's all that we can definitely be sure about in regards to their claims. With that in mind Ran's case has plenty of merit - neither MC nor Nabe is clear by any stretch of the imagination and we don't even know whether Nabe's claim is even remotely accurate. It's definitely fishy to postulate two cleared slots out of this whole scenario like MC does. His play is also more suspicious than Nabe's imo and Nabe is bound to die anyway.
It really doesn't take too many wild assumptions to draw the conclusions that Ran did. The only thing I'm unsure about is why he's pushing Nabe over MC. Regardless, Nabe does need to claim what he did on N2.

However, Bardull is scum and that is a fact. Sworddancer replacing out on D1 is evidence enough. Sworddancer always replaces out when he's scum and he never replaces out when he's town. It's really that simple.

Vote Bardull

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm not going to let him wait. One, I don't want to waste two lynches to wait to see it happen. (Especially if they are lynches I disagree with) Two, I don't want him to have the opportunity to use night actions as scum to further his factions survival. Do you at least see why I see scum in Nabe? Also who do you propose we lynch today instead?

I think you're misinterpreting the situation quite a bit. We're not going to "waste" two lynches at all for Bardull is scum and you don't disgaree with a lynch of MC anyway. There should be no issue for you with waiting to see whether Nabe is actually doomed or not. And if you're scared about him furthering his faction's survival you must have missed the fact that we have lynched a scumbag, while only one townie has died so far. If anythng *they* have to make sure that *we* don't further our survival because as of now we've got all their NAs ***********.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Just kind of skimmed, not much time. Ranmaru, you're dumb for looking at a Nabe/MC connection.

1. Bardull ()
2. Acrostic ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. Kreative Whiz Kids (2) MOD, MOD
5. Detective Sherlock Hound (1) MOD
6. J (1) Acrostic
7. Gorf ()
8. Dabunz ()
9. LBScary59 (7) Gheb, Ranmaru, J, dabuz, dabuz, MC, KWK
10. Ranmaru ()
12. Gheb_01 ()
13. Nabe (3) MOD, MOD, MOD
14. Vult Redux ()

Not voting - Gorf, Scary, NAbe, Vult, Bardull, DSH,

A lynch has been reached!

ScaryLB59, (Ultima, Mafia Totema, (Priest/Alchemist)) has been lynched!

Deadline is March 5th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6).

REDIRECTING IS PROHIBITED AND IS PUNISHABLE BY LAW!

All our actions went where they were supposed to.

Red Ryu targeted me (THANKS BUDDY) and I didn't send in the NKill as proven by Red Ryu targeting me.

Few things:

1. Scary has multiple scum mates, this isn't a "2 scum vs. 2 scum vs. X town and indies" kind of setup. He posted good luck to his faction in the plural after he died.
2. Since we can assume multiple scum mates we can assume one faction
3. Since we can assume one faction we can assume there was no early bus or there was an early bus

Was there an early bus? LET US LOOK TO THE VOTECOUNTS

1. Hardbody Warrior ()
2. Acrostic ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. Swiss (2) MOD, MOD
5. Detective Sherlock Hound (1) Gheb
6. J ()
7. Gorf ()
8. Dabunz (2) HBW, HBW
9. LBScary59 ()
10. Town PR ()
12. Gheb_01 ()
13. Nabe (3) MOD, MOD, MOD
14. Vult Redux ()

Not voting - Acrostic, MC, Swiss, DSH, J, Gorf, Dabuz, Scary, TPR, NAbe, Vult

1. Hardbody Warrior ()
2. Acrostic ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. Swiss (2) MOD, MOD
5. Detective Sherlock Hound (3) Gheb, dabuz, dabuz
6. J ()
7. Gorf ()
8. Dabunz (4) HBW, HBW, DSH, MC
9. LBScary59 ()
10. Town PR ()
12. Gheb_01 ()
13. Nabe (3) MOD, MOD, MOD
14. Vult Redux ()

Not voting - Acrostic, Swiss, J, Gorf, Scary, TPR, NAbe, Vult

1. Bardull (2) TPR, Gheb
2. Acrostic ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. Swiss (2) MOD, MOD
5. Detective Sherlock Hound (2) dabuz, dabuz
6. J ()
7. Gorf ()
8. Dabunz (3) HBW, HBW, DSH
9. LBScary59 ()
10. Town PR ()
12. Gheb_01 ()
13. Nabe (3) MOD, MOD, MOD
14. Vult Redux ()

1. Bardull ()
2. Acrostic ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. Swiss (4) MOD, MOD, Bardul, Bardul
5. Detective Sherlock Hound ()
6. J (1) Acrostic
7. Gorf ()
8. Dabunz ()
9. LBScary59 (3) Gheb, Ranmaru, J
10. Ranmaru ()
12. Gheb_01 ()
13. Nabe (3) MOD, MOD, MOD
14. Vult Redux ()

1. Bardull ()
2. Acrostic ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. Kreative Whiz Kids (4) MOD, MOD, Bardul, Bardul
5. Detective Sherlock Hound ()
6. J (1) Acrostic
7. Gorf ()
8. Dabunz ()
9. LBScary59 (3) Gheb, Ranmaru, J
10. Ranmaru ()
12. Gheb_01 ()
13. Nabe (3) MOD, MOD, MOD
14. Vult Redux ()

1. Bardull ()
2. Acrostic ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. Kreative Whiz Kids (4) MOD, MOD, Bardul, Bardul
5. Detective Sherlock Hound ()
6. J (1) Acrostic
7. Gorf ()
8. Dabunz ()
9. LBScary59 (3) Gheb, Ranmaru, J
10. Ranmaru ()
12. Gheb_01 ()
13. Nabe (3) MOD, MOD, MOD
14. Vult Redux ()

1. Bardull ()
2. Acrostic ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. Kreative Whiz Kids (2) MOD, MOD
5. Detective Sherlock Hound (1) MOD
6. J (1) Acrostic
7. Gorf ()
8. Dabunz ()
9. LBScary59 (6) Gheb, Ranmaru, J, dabuz, dabuz, MC
10. Ranmaru ()
12. Gheb_01 ()
13. Nabe (3) MOD, MOD, MOD
14. Vult Redux ()

1. Bardull ()
2. Acrostic ()
3. Maximum Carnage ()
4. Kreative Whiz Kids (2) MOD, MOD
5. Detective Sherlock Hound (1) MOD
6. J (1) Acrostic
7. Gorf ()
8. Dabunz ()
9. LBScary59 (7) Gheb, Ranmaru, J, dabuz, dabuz, MC, KWK
10. Ranmaru ()
12. Gheb_01 ()
13. Nabe (3) MOD, MOD, MOD
14. Vult Redux ()

In short, not very likely. The only players that could even somewhat be considered for a bus would be Dabuz, Myself, and KWK.


As always, no one hammer without me being on the lynch.



Gheb, Ran, and J are currently cool in my book.


Roleblockers, let's hear who you targeted. FASTER this time.

We already have your claims, just do it. Gheb, what cho got? KWK? Nabe?

 

[Maximum Carnage]

also:

this doesn't appear to be a recruiting game due to the flip being "Ultima". That's a non-generic, so, non-recruited.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Roleblocks were J and KVK.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I've never seen you swear.

What's with the caps lock and the attitude? You asked me a question, and I gave you my response. D1 was a townlean, and I have no notable read on you at present, but I have noticed a single aspect of your play that I perceive to have changed. That is my "read", in its entirety. Asking me the same question again slightly spicier is not going to award whatever True Result you're looking for.

If my play is "weird", perhaps you should take a look at #1722 where I've laid out my entire POV on MC, which I can only assume is the only "weird" factor, because it's the only thing you've brought it up prior.

Lack of response to this post seems relevant.
hi @ ranmaru

 

[Vult Redux]

I'm catching up. I'm not working over spring break so I'll be able to.

 

[BarDulL]

Roleblocks were J and KVK.

how does KWK have 2 mod votes if this happened

 

[BarDulL]

nvm misread vote count. dsh has 2 votes not KWK.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

*twiddles thumbs*

for srs

gheb and kwk what did you dewwwwwwwww


also bardull, careful with those questions. It's entirely possible KWK has level 1 soldier and can't be roleblocked.

 

[Vult Redux]

I have a special tracking ability that allowed me to track two targets, which isn't related to the roles of the game. I chose yourself and J. I know that an action of yours was a visit to MC. I also know J visited HBW, now the BarDull slot. What you guys did, I don't know. It's all I got for ya. Can't use in consecutive nights.

don't remember if anyone pointed out that Scary accurately called J's target even though he wasn't a tracker.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I sincerely pinky promise that I will read as late as tomorrow morning, no later, but...

AHAHAHAHAHA TOLD Y'ALL MOFOS SCARY WAS SCUM FROM WAY BACK WHEN GET AT ME

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

don't remember if anyone pointed out that Scary accurately called J's target even though he wasn't a tracker.

Chances are it was as he said it was another role he got along with the stuff he picked.

I'm cool with J.

Gheb I do wanna know what you did since my actions did go off last night.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

However, Bardull is scum and that is a fact. Sworddancer replacing out on D1 is evidence enough. Sworddancer always replaces out when he's scum and he never replaces out when he's town. It's really that simple.

Vote Bardull

Can we reconsider this guy on a Bardull townflip? Please?

@ ranmaru get your head out of your ass. There is literally no reason for us to lynch Nabe right now. You do realize we're still playing a number game, right? Lynching Nabe and potentially being wrong about it equals us wasting a lynch on someone that was going to die regardless. Common sense, please?

@ Dabuz My problem with Town PR at the time was how they went from having us as a strong town read to willingly lynching us and then implying we were either null or scum-lean after people tried to lynch us. I just don't see where his read switched on us and it was confusing to me, because people generally town-read us for meta related things, and town meta doesn't generally change when people disappear due to real life things (from what I understand at least). It seemed like he was being really opportunistic at the time. It's not that important right now I suppose, since the game seems to have honed in onto more of the night-action based stuff and trying to find contradictions and such. The only reason why I didn't bring this up initially is because I wanted to make sure that Town PR did indeed have us as a strong town read early on when we were actually somewhat active.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Hello friends, it's the man of the hour.

J, what is your read on Dabuz? Can you explain it for me? Also, why is Acrostic on your **** list? You've probably already said, but reiterate or link me, please.

Vote Bardull

I have read everything in this game, so do not worry about that despite everyone insinuating that Ryker doesn't exist. However, it was a long night phase. I intend to read the first two days again.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Can someone gimme a rundown on the bardull case? Iirc HBW was pre town and bardull didn't hurt that but I may be mistaken.

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

"Hey guys, let's look at Ranmaru's case."

"OKAY!"

*looks*

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

That case is a wild conspiracy theory that deserves to be overlooked.

I have a strange feeling about Nabe, but insinuating a connection to MC is dumb and trying to lynch Nabe is really dumb. There's no risk of him winning by surviving to N4 (I sincerely doubt he's like... an indy with that as his win-con or something), so we can ignore him until then and see if he dies from Doom or not. There is literally no reason for Ran to waste his time like that throwing out pretty dumb theories.

Roleblocked Gheb and Ran

 

[Kreative Whiz Kids]

"Alright guys, let's get creative!"

"Looks like lots of things could have stopped the NK toNight. We have us, J, Gheb, and Ranmaru all roleblocked, and MC protected by DSH."

 

[Maximum Carnage]

I believe that it would show up if we were targeted for a NKill and were protected. I will double check.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Nevermind. I stand corrected. The night action must be successful.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Kawaii no Ghebsu what did you do?

 

[ranmaru]

You think Scary "botched" the claim, and believe that MC was using it to clear himself + Nabe and his focus was clearing over catching scum. I don't think it cleared them and it is a null tell because as town or scum MC would want to get clears anyway. Whether or not he really cared about the Scary wagon based on play is another issue and that's difficult to say he did care so i'd give your case points on that unless MC can dispel that argument because I can agree that MC didn't really care to push Scary on play rather than role.


The second part is complete WIFOM in that you're assuming MC is scum and looking to bus yet you can't really back it up except with a suspicion because his attitude towards Scary wasn't a conventional bus so much as it was a self clear method and using Scary to further his own influence this game, which IIRC someone said is standard OS meta and null. Busing Nabe hard this early on doesn't make any sense because even if it were successful, MC would be under scrutiny for pretty much "knowing" Nabe is scum and pressuring him so early. So I don't think based on your findings, Nabe scum = MC scum because MC's entire approach to Nabe was too, weird I guess, it's hard to describe it well. Maybe too transparent as a bus? I could see being scum and Nabe being town and MC just wanting to get an easy push (which ironically wasn't easy and on town flip would put MC in a bad spot because of how transparently bad his Nabe push was), I can't see as town why MC would make his Nabe approach and not approach other slots the same way, but at the same time as Scum it's not a good play.


Your Nabe case is much more solid and truthfully, if he didn't already condemn himself in a non-Lylo situation I'd consider him a lynch target. Reason being is that we have only 2 flips, 1 scum and 1 town. ToMorrow either Nabe dies from Doom or he doesn't and we kill him, there's no reason to kill him a Day early because we don't -need- to lynch scum toDay to not lose meaning it's not like he's gonna win the game by surviving another Day, and regardless he's dead on Day 4. If we were in Lylo i'd say the Doom claim could be a perfect scum ploy to win but well, we aren't in Lylo so it's hard to justify lynching a dead man over one of two people who look pretty scummy. (Bardull because of Marshy's play + connections to Scary, and Vult.)


Why do you disagree with the possible lynches of Bardull and Vult (at least that's the two you implied in 1956)? I remember D2 you had Bardull's slot (HBW) as your strongest scumread (post 1488)

No.

I initially re-read MC and Nabe because I found their interactions odd. This lead to me finding harder evidence on Nabe rather than MC. I also asked Ryker to join to see what he was going to do with Nabe, but I'm still in the dark. I'll drop this theory though, yet I'll stand on my stances on Nabe and Scary purposely botching his claim. I'll keep an eye on MC. Also good point, I simply wanted scum out of here as soon as possible, but people prefer to wait and I'm ok with that. Also he is dead by D5, not D4. That's why I wanted him dead earlier. Plus I hate the long ass waits between days.

I don't disagree with Bardull or Vult. I was referring to any that I would disagree with in the future. I found Marshy to be scummy but I was trying to re-read him after Nabe/MC concerning me. I thought "Could it be possible he was just wrong?" The only thing I could find was his Nabe reasoning D2.

 

[ranmaru]

@ ranmaru Common sense, please?
@ Dabuz My problem with Town PR at the time was how they went from having us as a strong town read to willingly lynching us and then implying we were either null or scum-lean after people tried to lynch us. .

Alright, I concede to it.

On you, I was reconsidering my read at crunch time. Originally, it was the Joey head that gave me town vibes. Yet, he was really busy, as were you. I didn't want to give you the benefit of the doubt (ryu) without really seeing you here in full presence. I was scrambling to find a lynch that I could compromise on that wasn't Dabuz/JD. [And I think you know how strongly I felt about keeping Dabuz alive, especially after Acro was pushing him]. I think this is your only problem with me and I feel we can iron this out (Because I feel you are town and will be able to see my mindset on the rest of the playerlist as time unfolds). Never again did I push for your lynch, nor will I do so again. I have never released any reads [solo] besides my scumreads, until now. Two of my town reads are You and Dabuz. Also consider that D2 I was trying to talk to you wrt my Marshy reads although I kind of think it didn't go anywhere, but I tried. Especially wrt Scary. What I was doing was the same as you voting Scary on D2 (It was easier since we had Dabuz's DB vote). You disagreed with it yet still had to vote due to deadline. Different details on how we both got to our conclusions, but in the end we were both forced to trim the fat to get there. Now you mention you didn't want to bring it up unless you found the read near the time you were pretty active. I don't think you were, that was the central problem. If you were I would have read you earlier and wouldn't have really compromised with Gheb nor Marshy.

 

[ranmaru]

I think you're misinterpreting the situation quite a bit. We're not going to "waste" two lynches at all for Bardull is scum and you don't disgaree with a lynch of MC anyway. There should be no issue for you with waiting to see whether Nabe is actually doomed or not. And if you're scared about him furthering his faction's survival you must have missed the fact that we have lynched a scumbag, while only one townie has died so far. If anythng *they* have to make sure that *we* don't further our survival because as of now we've got all their NAs ***********.

Alright, you and Dabuz make good points. I'll step down from this.

 

[ranmaru]

hi @ ranmaru

Hi. What did you want exactly?

 

[ranmaru]

Roleblocked Gheb and Ran

Why did you do this? >_>

 

[ranmaru]

Mod: Request Votecount

 

[ranmaru]

Can I just say I don't agree to your case and we can call it even? I'd rather explain my scum-reads then my town-reads since when I did that D1, no one listened.

Hey J. I still want to see why you disagree with my Nabe case. At least talk to me about it succinctly. You can even talk about the summary I gave. It's right here for easy reference:

1. Nabe asks JD how he'd feel about getting hammered, pseudo scumhunting
2. No previous reasoning to suspect Dabuz, weak reasoning for J (source above)
3. Avoids Scary wagon when he can put it at L-2
4. Votes his own townread which he believes is Doctor over Scary.
5. Gives up on his J read on D1 but doesn't go into it D2. (I would think he gave up because he thought he was dead D1)
6. Is visibly looking to his own survival over finding scum.
7. Doesn't follow up with his final reads on D2, and instead claims na results instantly.

 

[ranmaru]

J, I want to know what you think of Nabe's play especially wrt to these two quotes:

What? That doesn't give you [Nabe] the reason to ignore my questions on your reads on Myself/Dabuz and some explanation. If I didn't voice that I would like this, I am now. I don't care that you aren't pursuing me, you posted reads that are left unexplained especially on two reads I have a one strong town read and one, know is town so that begs the question of why.

I wanna say I have already responded to it. Also the point you [Nabe] are talking about is beyond moot so I am just going to read your final line over and over and go off the assumption you have no case at the present time and will live with that as your answer. Continue on.

(I mean, did his play D2 resolve your concerns here?)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I didn't roleblock because my role disallows me to use the same action two Nights in a row.