Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[~ Gheb ~]

I want Scary for the biggest scum-read. Acrostic could go based on his posts holding a lot of fluff and no weight since he began posting. Nabe could go but he is doomed to die. Town PR needs to be re-evaluated and looked into hella more in my opinion. So pick your target and start shooting. I, personally, am thinking of which of these directions I want to follow since I have a few on my plate.

How well are you read up? I feel you on both Scary and Acro [not so much on Nabe and PR though] but you seem about as oblivious on DSH and HBW as everybody else seems to be. Did you read my posts on them from yesterDay? Got nothing to say about it?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ Maximum Carnage @ #HBC | Nabe

Why did you specifically want Ryker to throw out a read on me D1? Ryker isn't exactly good at reading me so I had difficulty rationalizing how that would benefit anybody.

@ Maximum Carnage

Can I get a Ryker post?

This ^ pretty much? Like, I assume the reasoning above is, OS is OS. During one of his early lists in D1, OS said something to the tune of, "Marshy is Marshy". But Ryker doesn't do that -- he attempts a read based on the information given, even if it's ass-backward horrible. I can't read a lack of a read, hence the call for Ryker. It was also an attempt to get Ryker posting more in general; usually of all topics in a game, he has a lot to talk about in talking about you.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'll give you this, read wise, he should expand more, but I don't think he has been avoiding reads all together.

3 out if the 4 slots you listed as null, when he disliked my slot earlier, should be worked on.

As I explained at the time I "disliked" your slot, that wasn't a read at all. I wanted to give you something specific and targeted to come back and post about after your lull, rather than the inevitable reads/catch-up post.

Did you ever pursue that full reread? Your posting seems better informed than I expected.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

So Nabe, based on what you've said I'm assuming that you're telling me that none of those slots are special in one way or another that makes them more clear or more damned?

Swiss, really wanna hear from you cuz this is important. I'm pretty sure I know a whole load of ish toDay.

One of the four of them definitely lies in the three, sure. Which is not to say that I'd lynch them outright as of yet, but is definitely to say that I wouldn't give them the pass in the situation you described.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ #HBC | Nabe

Who is Town in this game?

Ryu is immediately a townread in his posts toDay.
Swiss, despite my concerns on that slot yesterDay which syncs with my normal bias on WL.
Vult somewhat.
You somewhat.
Gorf atm.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

This is an entirely different Nabe I'm seeing. I like this Nabe.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

One of the four of them definitely lies in the three, sure. Which is not to say that I'd lynch them outright as of yet, but is definitely to say that I wouldn't give them the pass in the situation you described.

Did you target scary or vult? Your role is going to be outed later today anyway, but I do not think the others know it yet.

If you say neither imma be angry at you.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't think it's a good idea to have Nabe claim toDay.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

As I explained at the time I "disliked" your slot, that wasn't a read at all. I wanted to give you something specific and targeted to come back and post about after your lull, rather than the inevitable reads/catch-up post.

Did you ever pursue that full reread? Your posting seems better informed than I expected.

I went for a fully reread.

I did it before D1 was over.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

I don't think it's a good idea to have Nabe claim toDay.

I asked you a question earlier, answer it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

To have you ignore me in respone? You're a waste of time to talk to and I don't need to convince *you* to get you lynched anyway.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

DSH, I want to talk to you. Where is your head at with respect to J's slot and WL/Swiss?

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

To have you ignore me in respone? You're a waste of time to talk to and I don't need to convince *you* to get you lynched anyway.

Depends how you respond.

Right now you are being bullheaded and antagonistic without a solid thing to give me otherwise.

Tell me why you want me dead, because it relates to how I read you.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

DSH, I want to talk to you. Where is your head at with respect to J's slot and WL/Swiss?

J is wierd, I want to know why he white knighted Dietz since the only one who did with a decent reason was carnage. Him comingback and playing bragging rights doesn't sit well if I don't think his reason to defend him was solid or not. Same with Dabuz. He is giving reads but his effort outside if that is less active. I remember his stuff on Scary where he did take initiative. I want to look into him today, because his play kinda irks me but I'm not sure if it is because of conflicting reads or what he has done outside of the white knighting.

Laundry is stilling at more null, I was worried about his low activity but then he replaced out. His interaction with Carnage is the highlight I would look at for D1.

For what Swiss has done, I like, but I wanna be very careful giving a town read on him before he does more. Swiss is someone I need to read by action more than his word choice.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Depends how you respond.

Right now you are being bullheaded and antagonistic without a solid thing to give me otherwise.

Tell me why you want me dead, because it relates to how I read you.

In your own terms, what is Gheb's position on you?

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Gheb either think I am scum or worthless town so win win to lynch.

Why he thinks I am scum is what I don't get.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

J is wierd, I want to know why he white knighted Dietz since the only one who did with a decent reason was carnage. Him comingback and playing bragging rights doesn't sit well if I don't think his reason to defend him was solid or not. Same with Dabuz. He is giving reads but his effort outside if that is less active. I remember his stuff on Scary where he did take initiative. I want to look into him today, because his play kinda irks me but I'm not sure if it is because of conflicting reads or what he has done outside of the white knighting. Laundry is stilling at more null, I was worried about his low activity but then he replaced out. His interaction with Carnage is the highlight I would look at for D1. For what Swiss has done, I like, but I wanna be very careful giving a town read on him before he does more. Swiss is someone I need to read by action more than his word choice.

I think J is blending. I'm running an ISO on him today and will try to finish tonight. I feel that he dipped out as D1 progressed. If I'm not mistaken he had already made a case on Scary that didn't get pushed to lynch. I was actually going into the night with Laundry as a slight town read, however I'm reading his interaction with Gheb in early game and I want to see if I can pick up on any tells based on that issue. I want to let you know that you have my support for the latter half of today if you need it. I believe that you and Joey are the only two people relying on each other to formulate reads which makes you townie in my book.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

 

[Maximum Carnage]

I don't think it's a good idea to have Nabe claim toDay.

I already know his role. If I know his role someone else can know his role. It's not that hard to piece together.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Besides, I don't need a claim right now. I just need to know which one of the two he targeted.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Post #1309 and Post #1000 both explain my thought process on DSH / HBW scum pretty thoroughly. Some people seem to think it's enough to ignore these points and to pretend that I'm being "purposefully unconstructive". Hilarious how people seem to never learn or improve.

@ Detective Sherlock Hound

You lack the ability to propose a convincing counter-argument against my approach so please don't waste your time trying. What you can try to do though, is telling me why you are not the scumbag in these scenarios. Are you willing to question your current read on HBW as well based on this? Your reaction is gonna be probably something tupid like "omg this is gross and scummy!!" or "he thinks I'm scum or dumb so it's win/win for him".

I won't let you get away so easily.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I already know his role. If I know his role someone else can know his role. It's not that hard to piece together.

When did I say that it was hard to piece together? I was refering to this post:

Your role is going to be outed later today anyway,

I'd disapprove of such course of action. There's no need to out his role toDay and I personally think that it'd be a bad thing for him to do. Outing his role and his actions toMorrow is OK though. Him claiming whether he targeted the players you asked for or not is a different matter. I see no issue with him doing that but I strongly advice against his suggested roleclaim, that people seem to have agreed with. You should push against it more acively toDay imo since you seem to realize that it's not a good idea.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

WTF are you talking about

Like 3 people's roles were outed toDay (well, half of Swiss), they just weren't publicly posted. Like it or not, the roles are there.

Regardless I'd prefer Nabe to answer without claiming, as I have to ask Swiss some questions.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

WTF are you talking about

Same question to you. I'm talking about how Nabe should not claim toDay, you tell me about roles and Swiss and other dumb **** that has like nothing to do with it.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Did you target scary or vult? Your role is going to be outed later today anyway, but I do not think the others know it yet.

If you say neither imma be angry at you.

Sounds like you're on the right track! : B

If you know my role, and you've read posts addressed to you, you definitely know which (if either) of those two I targeted.

 

[Dabuz]

Not while I am on my phone.

Also read your collapsed part, I didn't use meta I used player experience.

I don't hold Scary to the same standards as OVerswarm or Swiss or Washedlaundry.

This is the same trap Rake fell into in that same game me and Zen pushed Scary in. I think Scary can elaborate or explain himself but holding him to the standard Town PR is saying.

I'm willing to listen to I don't see what he has done that is scummy.

When you're not on your phone and able to, please do.

What's the difference between the two?

What else would Scary need to do for you to pin a scum read on him?

I'll give you half a point on comparing this to Rake. Only half though because pretty much everyone was fine with Rake dying (except Ryker because when everyone is ok with a slot dying, normally that slot isn't scum), however in this game we have a few slots not ok with the slot dying. I believe those slots are: You, HBW, Acrostic, Gheb.

You should read back to posts approx. 855, 1225, and 672 + the couple pages following it to get a good idea of why we think he's scummy. The short version is that he hasn't been pushing or asking questions, (this goes against his normal town play) his actual reads have bad substantiation and this was shown because he didn't react well when pressured on such.

in progress.

I think my post answered that question though so I don't understand why you ask.

Your post did answer that, but the answer bothers me. Seeing that you're going into stuff in 1419 which alleviates my concern a bit. If the Scary wagon becomes a possibility toDay, are you willing to join? For Acrostic + DSH, read my 1392, that might help you see what others see. Tell me more about MC though since you seem to be leaning scum on him but i'm not sure exactly why, I just know which content makes you lean scum.


@ #HBC | Nabe Why Swiss townread?


@ ~ Gheb ~ Do you know Nabe's role or at least have an idea?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's nothing you should concern yourself with.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ #HBC | Nabe Why Swiss townread?

WL.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

When did I say that it was hard to piece together? I was refering to this post:



I'd disapprove of such course of action. There's no need to out his role toDay and I personally think that it'd be a bad thing for him to do. Outing his role and his actions toMorrow is OK though. Him claiming whether he targeted the players you asked for or not is a different matter. I see no issue with him doing that but I strongly advice against his suggested roleclaim, that people seem to have agreed with. You should push against it more acively toDay imo since you seem to realize that it's not a good idea.

Post #1309 and Post #1000 both explain my thought process on DSH / HBW scum pretty thoroughly. Some people seem to think it's enough to ignore these points and to pretend that I'm being "purposefully unconstructive". Hilarious how people seem to never learn or improve.

@ Detective Sherlock Hound

You lack the ability to propose a convincing counter-argument against my approach so please don't waste your time trying. What you can try to do though, is telling me why you are not the scumbag in these scenarios. Are you willing to question your current read on HBW as well based on this? Your reaction is gonna be probably something tupid like "omg this is gross and scummy!!" or "he thinks I'm scum or dumb so it's win/win for him".

I won't let you get away so easily.

So your argue bent is I am bad and cockblock brigade exists.

Convincing

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Sounds like you're on the right track! : B

If you know my role, and you've read posts addressed to you, you definitely know which (if either) of those two I targeted.

I can narrow it logically down to those two, but I'd like a confirmation from you. This should presumably clear both you and me if I'm correct. Pretty big boon for town and starts the domino effect.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

DSH is more likely town than mafia due to reasons outside of normal reasons. In the beginning of the game there was a large amount of back and forth between the hydra regarding contrasting reads on players and both heads working together to get material out. Noticeably around #241 you have both hydra heads typing at the same time which was slightly amusing which probably warranted the post in #511 with Ryu and Jo_oey stating that they are actually trying to organize themselves as a hydra to get material out. Given the course of latter D1 you have multiple cases were the RR side of the hydra discounts Town PR's use of meta in posts #1240 and #1261. Despite this, RR and Jo_oey apply a different type of meta by referencing their individual presence and teamwork in posts. I do believe that the double tap on Town PR's meta use was genuine and that they aren't willingly being hypocrites in a broader sense of using meta to explain their own slot. Hence, I don't believe that it is likely that DSH is in a hydra within a mafia group and references the workings of the hydra to throw us off into believing that there exclusively method of communication is within the hydra itself. Although I don't know Jo_oey that well and therefore wouldn't put it past him doing anything, I don't think that Red Ryu would rely on such a tactic in order to make him appear town in a given game.

I also think that the initial push on dabuz for the name recognition problems is also indicative of something the slot would be more likely to do as town than as mafia. Although after that initial push there wasn't as much bite in the following foses. Especially with respect to DSH's initial Gheb accusations in #381 which was that the slot feels that Gheb obfuscated reads intentionally with meta conversation rather than offer a direct response and played off the pressure with an empty reason (i.e. town alliance with Carnage) in order to avoid a direct confrontation with anyone. This was continued in DSH's #511 and wasn't dropped entirely at the bottom of the paragraph indicating that it was a point of contention for the slot and wasn't something that got dropped like the dabuz/marshy situation during RVS. If Gheb were concerned about this slot actually dropping points, then I'd think that his primary interest would be more so in the initial fos leveraged at his own slot in the beginning game rather than focusing on how the slot had supposedly dropped the concentration on Jdietz.

Gheb mentioning that whiteknighting and other related conversation was used to drop pressure on the slot. However, that's not how the situation played out to me. In posts like #1251 DSH blatantly stated that he was willing to 110% go for a Jdietz lynch and when the wagon started moving he was proactive at securing votes near the end stating in #1317 that people need to vote in order to guarantee a flip for the day. The only other rational alternative perspective that Gheb could be using that as a reason is that the slot hadn't posted which I felt RR and Jo_oey had adequately covered in a single post stating that they both had life commitments which is why they decided to hydra in the first place. For example, there is a huge gap from what I notated as being their post in #613 - #972 and #977 - #1239 with #977 mentioning that the post is catching up/going to play League and #1239 mentioning that Gheb is gross.

My biggest reservation with this slot is that it appears that Red Ryu is the dominant head and Jo_oey has dropped out or taken second wheel since the beginning of the game. I think that this slot is at its best when both heads are contributing to reads like in early game and I think that the initial position on Gheb got lost because Jo_oey was pursuing the Gheb angle and Red Ryu is more concerned about securing lynches and playing for the collective than pushing through his own reads. Either way, I want to declare that I feel this slot is town and I think that we're really going off the proper path here by actually bringing attention to this slot that is projecting to rarely be here to even answer to any pressure that may be applied to it. And I don't want to have another D1 where we go on three different people without really adequate reasoning on any of them aside from them being mostly bad.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

Joey has a reason he is not posting, he might not post again for the rest of the game.

But I'm not going to state why because it's personal.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Really though the core of my reads on the DSH slot is that I don't believe that RR would be a ****ty enough person to touch upon the thought process and workings of the hydra repeatedly in situations like #241 and posts like #248, #511, #613, and #972 in order to score a cheap town read if he was really a mafia member. I don't think as a mafia member that he would feign cooperation with his hydra partner in a way that shows that he is exclusively conferring with only one other person in order to materialize reads. I do believe that his Jdietz read was ineffective due to both heads being generally weak in terms of alignment perception, however I don't hold the many inconsistencies and lack of consistent flow to be a scum tell because it appears that RR is struggling to make sense of being thrown into the game at huge time chunks which results in which being more passive than actively pursuing his own pushes which is a common trait again for mostly RR and somewhat Jo_oey. So while I can try to understand your points of raising very general accusations regarding their play, you've missed certain off-hand tells blatantly given by the slot that make them more of a town alignment than a scummy lynch choice for me, personally.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Joey has a reason he is not posting, he might not post again for the rest of the game. But I'm not going to state why because it's personal.

It's fine. If it's personal then it's not worth it. I know he has a lot of **** going on.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@ Detective Sherlock Hound

Am I reading you right? Was there anything off in what I said? Is there anything you want to add? What happened to the Gheb thing?

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

@ Detective Sherlock Hound

Am I reading you right? Was there anything off in what I said? Is there anything you want to add? What happened to the Gheb thing?

I'll back to you on this, friends party.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

I'll back to you on this, friends party.

I really don't care about the quality of your return post. Anything you can respond with on your mobile is fine if you have bars. If there's any revisions to your response then you can just EBWOP it in a follow-up post. You can't hide from me.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

@ Detective Sherlock Hound

Am I reading you right? Was there anything off in what I said? Is there anything you want to add? What happened to the Gheb thing?

Yes.

I can read people decently, I don't think I am mediocre at it.

I hate it when people pull hydra **** to mislead people like when Marshy mislead Soup into thinking he was town.

I'm trying to get a firmer read on his more recent stuff, I don't like how he approached Carnage but his recent stuff can help me read him better. He's being a pretentious jerk about it but I'm not sure where that puts his alignment.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@ Detective Sherlock Hound

Would you be up for putting Gheb down right now as a safety lynch if we don't formulate a strong fos or are unable to get any of our major foses on a bandwagon today?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@ #HBC | Scary

Hey Scary, could you do me a favor and be my double voter ability today. I know it's a brash thing to ask, but keep in mind that I'm only asking now because I hate trying to build up a lynch at the very last minute of the day and if you agreed it would make it so much easier for me to effectively lynch someone I think is mafia. If you have a strong preference on wanting someone lynched at the very moment, then I understand that. However, I would be interested to know who it is or who you would be against lynching and your reasoning for denying my proposition.