Final Fantasy Tactics Advance Mafia - Game Over!

[Raziek]

Sweet monkey christ.

I actually read that whole thing, but I'm going to have to do at least 2 or 3 more times, and NOT at 2 AM.

I promise to deliver on that flavor request for you tomorrow morning.

 

[Dabuz]

Yes.
Not to him at the moment.
Then I'd presumably be more interested in him at the moment.
No.

I get the sense you'd like me to make something up from thin air?

Your question to Scary was something with, in all honesty, an obvious answer to anyone who isn't a complete newbie. I'd like you to say something. Your slot is extremely lurky and almost null content wise, I don't want that.

Spoiler

I get unbiased opinions from lurking slots who have the gall to imply they have opinions and not reciprocate after my generosity.

If you have an opinion or a problem with my opinion I don't want you to hide behind me to give it. That gives you a free pass to armchair critic when you've provided nothing as far as content this game.

I.e. I find it mad suspicious you ask things like this and get all uppity about me "not answering" when there's already two pages of discussion with my name on it and you haven't produced anything.

Why are you cramping my Gheb vote? If it's pressure to read Gheb you're defeating the point, and if I think for sure he's scum then asking is pointless already.

Why are you asking about Laundry's intent if you can't read my own? Am I supposed to know things you yourself can't infer either?

What was so difficult here about answering Town PR's question? If you wanted to just pressure Gheb and look legitimate at it, you could very easily summarize your reasoning regarding the whole voteblock thing + gut feelings and continued to ride that to pressure Gheb. Instead you dragged out not answering and also have yourself to blame for that Gheb pressure vote becoming a dead end now since you couldn't even pretend to be committed to the pressure.

this is legitimately one of the ****tiest d1s ive had the misfortune of being forced to partake. why the **** are *****s talking about claims and classes and centralizing discussion around that?

in other news jdietz continues to scum it up in every game we play together

fos jdietz

I know your Marshy and asking this probs won't produce results but W/E, explain why you think Jdeitz is scumming it up.

But then this :thumbsdown:

vote dabuz

**** dabunz

In fact, why did pg 6 up to Sherlock's 231 between Gheb Dietz and dabuz get dragged out like that so much? Gheb < Dietz < Dabuz from that imo but still it's ****in weird.

What's the reasoning for the re-vote here?

e_e

Hm? I didn't see anything of note for Gheb besides the mechanics/ class discussion.

What part of Gheb's play says he's protown at the moment? He tried to break the game immediately, his reasons for singling you two out are jank, he got defensive when pressured on his decision, and then instead of diffusing the situation, jumps right into mechanical role discussion as if all of that pressure didn't exist so he can say that voteblocking is null on a whole and that we should treat most claims as such. Can you point out townie motive in there because I damn well have yet to see it.

Oh, I felt the whole "game-breaking" and "singling out" things were null (although on scum flip i'd look back at the singling out part). Any particular posts when he was pressured worth looking at?


Bah, still have to read those walls...*sigh*

 

[#HBC | J]

More anti-town than actually scummy. He had reasonable reasons to want to ask them even if they screwed us up doing so.

If he never gets back to us on Gheb, and if Gheb turns up scum... then maybe we'll have something to worry about.

Besides maybes and what ifs, do you have any concrete thoughts? I'll take any and all in terms of reads please.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

@ Maximum Carnage
Probably toward the OS head, you must've been some sort of investigator in a past life. That wall is just stocked full of good stuffs.

For my specific part in your wall, I'm leaning toward pressure on Gheb stemming from Gheb centralizing his play on the mechanics thus far. I need to double check it but that's what I think for the moment. I'm not too sure though. I'll get back to ya when I'm more focused and awake man.

 

[Dabuz]

Also, is anyone else getting a white screen with an ad on top when posting on here sometimes?

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Also, is anyone else getting a white screen with an ad on top when posting on here sometimes?

Alright so I'm not the only one.

 

[#HBC | J]

Same, even on my phone.

To be honest, I dislike Gheb's mechanics talk but I don't find it inherently scummy...just bad. Plus I'm not surprised because Gheb does this all the time and does it as both alignments. Still tapping my foot at things but that'll be for another time when J isn't so tired.

 

[Dabuz]

@ Dabuz @ Jdietz43 @ ~ Gheb ~
What did you hope to gain from your mechanics discussion about role selection?

Figure in a game like this with players being able to pick their classes and lots of crazy roles it'll help to be able to make heads or tails of some of the role stuff and see how other players perceive it.

 

[Jdietz43]

Besides maybes and what ifs, do you have any concrete thoughts? I'll take any and all in terms of reads please.

Sorry, what you see is what you get atm. The thread has seen tons of me but I still need to see more of it if we're going to pull anything out of the maybe pile. Everything else should be out there. I learned my lesson attempting pressure votes with only half ideas to back them up.

 

[#HBC | J]

*taps foot more*

 

[Jdietz43]

@ ~ Gheb ~
Did you forget that some mods give scum the town wincon when a player attempts to clear another in public?

I will say that if this is the question that Town PR is "waiting on" before he weighs in on Gheb (it's the only question to Gheb he has) that I think that's some bull****. What variance do you honestly expect from the answer to this question that isn't entirely wifom when you basically tell him "Say yes" as either alignment to save face.

 

[Dabuz]

I was so relieved to notice that a good chunk of Carnage's second wall was just a copy of the chunk before it.


@ Maximum Carnage "How you know that both alignments have access or that there are only "two", implied by both?"

I don't "know", I'm just presuming they do. You ran a game before with a near identical setup, correct? Did that setup have players in both/ all alignments able to choose freely from the publicly listed classes? For the "both" thing, once again a presumption, this one being based on most mafia games having 2 alignments...but I will concede the point that it's bad to make such presumptions.


"Yo, what do you mean by "good to pay attention to"? Knowing you read is awesome and all, but I'd like to know why that's good. What does it say about JDietz to you? What about it could be scummy in the future, if anything?"

If you want me to I could go to pre-game and point out all the question JD asked the mod about classes and abilities but I don't think that contributes to your read sooooo...it's just stuff that was good to know when picking out classes. Questions which could actually change an opinion on some classes or even make the mod have to rethink or reword some of the roles. To me it says Jdietz is thinking about mechanics quite heavily, considering most (if not all) of JD's questions came before role PMs were even sent out. I can't think of anything specific about that which could be scummy in the future.

 

[Jdietz43]

I think Gova would literally murder you if you did that.

 

[Dabuz]

1. 25
   Awarded: 1 minute ago
   Seriously Likeable!
   Content you have posted has attracted 100 likes.
   
   
   TY mafiascum for reminding me that smashboards has achievements now

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Laundry & J

I have no idea what the hell you expect me to say. Trying to clear MC over any other slot was a personal choice of mine. I should not have to justify that but I did so anyway: I would've loved to form a confirmed townie alliance with Ryker and I've made ample clear by now that it's the slot that will be misread the most in my opinion. I gave you more information on this choice than I should have needed to and yet you guys still want to hear more more. That's too bad for you because what I have told you is all there is to it. There is no "more" to explain to you.

@Town PR

Yes, I have forgotten about that. You are right and I acknowledge the fact that I cannot be considered cleared at this point.

@ Maximum Carnage

I tagged the individual heads of your hydra because at that time you had not yet posted under your hydra account. Yes, I would've broken the game and yes, I know that I could've been modkilled for it. Now that Town PR reminded me that some mods send fake role PMs with the town wincon to scum, I obviously would not have considered you clear for long had you responded correctly. You shouldn't pride yourself however over the fact that you consistently misread me. Misreading people seems to be your core competence anyway.

I don't understand where people are coming from when they accuse me of "mechanic talk". My main contribution in the debate was that voteblocking and class claims are both to be read as null. Of all the people who mentioned classes, claims and voteblocking in their posts, I was the only one to raise point that actually affect reads and Day play. It's pretty laughable to interpret such play as anything other than null. I'll definitely have a word with the people who read it as anti-town and single me out over the slots that talked about the mechanics merely for the sake of it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Vote @WashedLaundry

That's where I would push right now if a lynch were to be decided upon soon.

* You keep bringing up my attempt to clear MC. We know that you would have decided differently by now but you have yet to acknowledge my reasoning despite me having offered it a number of times. This is bad because you claim a.) that my reasoning is insufficient and b.) that I have ignored your requests to elaborate. The latter simply isn't true and the former is something you have yet to elabrate on. I on the other hand have told you literally everything there is about my reasoning so it is you who has some explaining to do right now. Either tell me what it is that you want me to explain or admit that your point is trash.
Mind you, the root of your entire argument is that I've tried to clear somebody. You've constructed your argument in a manner that makes such actions look anti-town. That's absurd. Even if I were scum and you had a decent argument, this point is nothing but a null tell. You've blown it way out of proportion.

* You were among the people who mentioned my involvement in the "mechanics" debate. I've mentioned in my previous post why that's nothing to read me as suspicious for. It's another null tell, though some people will maybe argue that it's pro-town of me to make it clear that claims and voteblocking are null in this game. I wouldn't say that but it's not a scum-tell in either case.

* I'm inclined to agree with @ Detective Sherlock Hound @ Jdietz43 and @ #HBC | Gorf with their conclusion of the dabuz issue - it's probably null but definitely not pro-town of him to forget about marshy being in this game. I find it extremely odd that you believed it to be a town-tell at first and your rasoning was not convincing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I find myself agreeing with most of what @Town PR has said so far, except for his vote on Dietz. There's one thing I am curious about though. He asked Dietz: "Does this situation mean Gheb is scum? Are you sure that's why WL is voting him?" I'd like to ask you how you think I have interpreted WL's play so far and how you feel about him as a result.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Gheb votes the person who started pushing against him, who could have seen that coming.



I want to know who is a double voter. It's not going to be a secret and they are ALL going to be on the lynch today and be voteblocked tomorrow if they're lynching a townie. It's a numbers game that I'll go into more after I have time.

Nabe, you're in charge of tracking who is a double voter. Make it happen.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Rykerwarm mocks something that's beyond his comprehension, who could have seen that coming.

 

[Vult Redux]

Anything else? As in, how many games, irl or onlline?

I was just kidding before because I wanted to see if Laundry would call me out.

I've been playing online for about 8 years and play with a small group irl occasionally. But these are my first games in several months because I was living abroad for a while and didn't want to be too distracted by Mafia.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

If I recall correctly, Gheb was asked why he chose OS/Ryker over other slots. The slots questioning this decision were right in the fact that there had to be some reason behind it, right? I understand that he answered the question once, but the reasoning was really basic and could apply to anyone in the game with Gheb's "I'm surrounded by morons" mentality, which is why J/Laundry continued to question this. He kinda just went into a "it's my personal preference!" mode afterwards, and it got to the point where he just ignored J/Laundry's push completely for mechanics talk. After a while though, he finally admits that it's because he wanted to form a town alliance with OS/Ryker.

I posted the above to show my interpretation of the situation. Now, to actually answer the question at hand, I believe that he over-reacted after initially responding to Marshy. He seemed to have gotten pissy because people weren't accepting his personal preference answer or his basic answer, and it just got to the point where he started talking about Mechanics and just avoided questions completely. I mean, looking back on it, I'd probably take back what I said about overreacting if it really was just personal preference and that J/Laundry were just really continuing to question him for no reason. However, this doesn't seem to be the case. Gheb's later responses show that he chose OS/Ryker in an attempt to form a town alliance with them.

To continue with my over-reaction statement with new material... Why would Gheb attempt to avoid more questions from J/Laundry through discussing mechanics in order to hide something that doesn't really need to be hidden? Why would you attempt to hide the fact that you wanted to have a town alliance with OS/Ryker? It'd definitely be a good thing to have, and while it would raise a few more questions, it's definitely a way better answer than "personal preference!"

I think that Gheb made up this "I wanted to have a town alliance with OS/Ryker!" in order to derail any more pressure on him about this. I don't see a reason why he'd avoid talking about this for so long. It's way easier to explain why you'd want to have a town alliance with someone that has so much in-thread power than to avoid people on your wagon over mechanics. This is definitely him over-reacting to the pressure on his wagon, though. Making up a reason just to get people off of your back or holding this in for so long for no reason both seem to be pretty big over-reactions imo.

I don't know if this is truly scummy or not, but I'm definitely wanting to look more into it.

I have class in a few minutes. Either Ryu or myself will respond to J and others later. I apologize for not being able to do this immediately. Have a wonderful day, everyone!

 

[Vult Redux]

Gheb votes the person who started pushing against him, who could have seen that coming.

are you saying this means something or are you just mentioning it in passing?

are you voting him because of his way of trying to clear himself? if so why it it scummy vs null?

@ Dabuz try voting someone else and see if it still counts as double.

He tried to break the game immediately

how is this scummy vs null?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think that Gheb made up this "I wanted to have a town alliance with OS/Ryker!" in order to derail any more pressure on him about this.

****ing read the thread. The town alliance with Ryker was literally the first thing I've posted about after Gova *********** my attempt to break the game. It's dumbass **** like your post that gets me pissy. I wasn't even reacting harshly earlier and have no idea where you think I was overreacting.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Washed, why did you assume that Gheb should pay special attention to multiple slots rather than picking one (even arbitrarily)?
Why did you assume that Gheb's action implied he WASN'T afraid of those slots? It was literally the start of the game and he had ALREADY ANSWERED THE QUESTION.
Why didn't you answer his question to you? Surely any sort of self-reflection would make your stance here more clear.

What is your goal here, Washed? It sure looks to me like you're wasting time and moving the goalposts around as he posts. What will it take for you to be satisfied, for him to say "Oops, made a mistake, you and Nabe are way too good I should have included you".

I mean WTF, if Gheb posts a way to potentially clear A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL (because if we had responded and cleared ourselves in that manner no one else could have), what kind of mentally deficient troglodyte waltzes in and asks "WHY DIDN'T YOU ALSO EXTEND THAT TO ALL THESE OTHER PLAYERS" and gets pissy AFTER Gheb already responded with "I think this is a slot that will be misread"?

Dunce Cap on Washed Laundry

What were you hoping to gain? What information would you possibly glean from this other than Gheb's personal prattle on how he "rates other players"? Guy took start rating systems seriously, he could quote his posts from Social Games and you'd never get any unique answers in that vein.

@WashedLaundry Up above, answer the question marks

i have no idea what the **** to make of os calling me an idiot and then following my vote in the same post

os pls

Most questions have queeestion marksssssssss

Raz said:
If I was to string together a flavor-based set-up, the mafia probably has Mewt in it, who (in the game), directly abuses his power as the Prince to control the judges, who set the laws. It's a major plot point in the game.

Can you give some sort of flavor breakdown for us?

@ Raziek this would be helpful

Yo, what do you mean by "good to pay attention to"? Knowing you read is awesome and all, but I'd like to know why that's good. What does it say about JDietz to you? What about it could be scummy in the future, if anything?

@ Dabuz

And then epic OS post that nobody is going to read.

@ #HBC | Gorf , bros this game?

Holy **** that wall... uhm, reading

I'll get to reading that wall...and most of last page eventually...

Woah.......

Must try comprehend wall. Body was not ready lol.

I'm waiting on an answer from Gheb on my last question before I put a read out on that.

Also Raz that was posted without my permission and I do not condone that question.

What question to Gheb

What question from Raz

You seem to like hiding as much as Nabe so I thought I'd make this easier for everyone to see.

It's funny, I was gonna say as a joke when I had 4 people voting me that if 4 of them are Templars, i'm dead...didn't think it'd be so close to true.

:O

I don't "know", I'm just presuming they do. You ran a game before with a near identical setup, correct? Did that setup have players in both/ all alignments able to choose freely from the publicly listed classes? For the "both" thing, once again a presumption, this one being based on most mafia games having 2 alignments...but I will concede the point that it's bad to make such presumptions.

I'd highly suggest reading FFTactics, I linked to it in the wall. You saw, right?

Gorf has a mod vote but looking at his posts in the thread and the roles, don't know why.

Based on the previous vote count error that maximum carnage has quoted, when Gorf was on me that was 6 votes, meaning Gorf also has double vote?

Don't worry, Nabe's on the double voter case!

Votecoutn does confuse me.

@mod request votecount

Incorrect.

Gadgeteer has a multi-target voteblock identical in function to Alchemist's, and lvl 2 Thief is better than a voteblock as they can only target who you say or no one at all.

These combined with passive restrictions make voteblocking a major threat. Remember that town is as likely to pick the self voteblocking roles as scum if not more likely in some cases.

Gadgeteer can't do **** to anyone. WTF is ending with a post divisible by 3, 4, or 5? Not me. Certainly not scum. Only way gadgeteer works is if people aren't paying attention, day ends abruptly (WHICH SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AN ANTITOWN MOVE), or if town is making a plan with a gadgeteer.

Gadgeteer is a late-game tactical role that can roleblock multiple people. For serious, we could have a claimed gadgeteer Roleblock most of the game if we wanted to prevent all sorts of stuff... but only if we planned around it.

Sorry, what you see is what you get atm. The thread has seen tons of me but I still need to see more of it if we're going to pull anything out of the maybe pile. Everything else should be out there. I learned my lesson attempting pressure votes with only half ideas to back them up.

ughhhhhhhhhhh c'mon JD. You think every vote or proclamation means 100% certainty? It's okay to be wrong! Just look at Gheb, he still plays.

Wah I wanted to sleep/play bravely default.

Is Bravely Default any good? I've been looking for a good RPG since Last Odyssey but the Last Story didn't catch my attention and I typically avoid mobile RPGs.

What do you think Washed's Intent in questioning Gheb was?

@ #HBC | Scary whatcho think

@@Maximum Carnage
Probably toward the OS head, you must've been some sort of investigator in a past life. That wall is just stocked full of good stuffs.

I assume this means you'll follow my lead and do whatever I want all game for forever? Good!

Put your vote on Town PR for now. Just kinda let it sit there.

@@Maximum Carnage

I tagged the individual heads of your hydra because at that time you had not yet posted under your hydra account. Yes, I would've broken the game and yes, I know that I could've been modkilled for it. Now that Town PR reminded me that some mods send fake role PMs with the town wincon to scum, I obviously would not have considered you clear for long had you responded correctly. You shouldn't pride yourself however over the fact that you consistently misread me. Misreading people seems to be your core competence anyway.

Always good to see you admit to making a mistake, good stuff Gheb.

I don't understand where people are coming from when they accuse me of "mechanic talk". My main contribution in the debate was that voteblocking and class claims are both to be read as null. Of all the people who mentioned classes, claims and voteblocking in their posts, I was the only one to raise point that actually affect reads and Day play. It's pretty laughable to interpret such play as anything other than null. I'll definitely have a word with the people who read it as anti-town and single me out over the slots that talked about the mechanics merely for the sake of it.

You should maybe not post a bunch of null **** for no reason and be confused when people comment on it. What did you expect to happen, people to read and say "Yes, Gheb is wise" to themselves and ignore it because it's "null"?

After a while though, he finally admits that it's because he wanted to form a town alliance with OS/Ryker.

Where was this? I think I missed it. I remember him saying it would be easier to see Ryker town, but that's a totally different animal.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

are you saying this means something or are you just mentioning it in passing?

It's something Gheb likes to do in general, and it typically doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean his alignment, doesn't mean the votee's alignment. Typically beest to just ignore.

are you voting him because of his way of trying to clear himself? if so why it it scummy vs null?

I'm voting him because I like it when Gheb gets salteh

That and he's really easy to read when he gets mad and I don't mind when he gets lynched even as town

jajajajajajaaja

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Gheb I really hope for your sake I actually did miss your request for a "town alliance" with the slot that destroyed your alignment the last time this was run, because if it isn't this will be the second time you've used post-hoc reasoning in one phase.

 

[Nameless]

guys i really dont want to read carnages longass posts

 

[Nameless]

@ #HBC | Scary whatcho think

I assume this means you'll follow my lead and do whatever I want all game for forever? Good!

Put your vote on Town PR for now. Just kinda let it sit there.

oh **** no!

scary just a heads up you will be sheeping ME this game. were homeboys

 

[Maximum Carnage]

I propose it is time for....

​

That's right that's right. We're making our OWN team!

Maximum Carnage as himself
Gorf as Venom
Dabuz as Spiderman

ScaryLB59 as the guy who just sheeps our vote without question

We want YOU​

As a voting block of 4 we hold 5 votes, over half needed for any phase in the game. We CAN beat scum!​

Join us.​

Also @mod request fix of player list on first page, it has R's in everyone's name for no reason. Makes it difficult to look through player list when making reads.

 

[Dooms]

****ing read the thread. The town alliance with Ryker was literally the first thing I've posted about after Gova *********** my attempt to break the game. It's ******* **** like your post that gets me pissy. I wasn't even reacting harshly earlier and have no idea where you think I was overreacting.

...oh

Yup I missed that.

That makes gheb vs world so much more confusing. I need to reread that

 

[Vult Redux]

I'm voting him because I like it when Gheb gets salteh

ok

vote: gheb

 

[Maximum Carnage]

guys i really dont want to read carnages longass posts

Just CTRL+F ?'s I guess

Marshy what you think about Nabe being a turtle this game

seriously, no neck

just shoop

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The sad part is that apparently there are people who still believe the whole "Gheb gets salty" story. Oh well.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@ #HBC | Gorf , bros this game?

Two conditions:

1. I am 100% exempt from reading any walls of yours (I'm gonna scroll past em regardless but at least now you know )

2. Get dabuz dafuq off our team.

Then it's a maybe

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Two conditions:

1. I am 100% exempt from reading any walls of yours (I'm gonna scroll past em regardless but at least now you know )

2. Get dabuz dafuq off our team.

Then it's a maybe

Dabuz stays, he's a double voter and we got 'em

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well then I respectably decline your invitation.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

The murderer in this picture is a fox, Sherlock's avatar is a fox (or something similar)...scumslip!

Do you have any last words Mr. Fox?

Love and Peace!

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

This whole interaction is hard because I want to vote Gheb on gut for his voteblocking advocacy, but I'm the one who accidentally started the mechanics talk he went along with that made Washed vote him...

oh well

Vote: Gheb

#hypocrite city

Noting this, but if you started it.

What is wrong with what he said? I read it but don't remember anything sticking out.

 

[Detective Sherlock Hound]

If page 5 is why people voted Gheb I'm not seeing what he did that was scummy.

He picked Ryker and OS...so? Washed being able to read Ryker doesn't mean he can't fool him ever. I mean I think I can read OS well but that doesn't mean I can't be wrong.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Well then I respectably decline your invitation.

Why?

If you think Dabuz is town, no biggie.

If you think Dabuz is scum, why wouldn't you want his vote controlled?