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Figuring out an approach to snake

KaosKun

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
47
Location
Leominster, MA / Lowell, MA
I went to a tournament this past weekend where 5 out of the top 6 people played snake. As a marth player, playing snake is the bane of our existence. I have been trying to figure out a good approach to battling snake other than switching to my metaknight to fight him. I follow Emblem lord's post which is a decent theory on approaching snake :

Snake - Snake is a monster. His ground game rivals yours in speed and his range is virtually equal to yours on his tilts. His jab combo is also fast and strong.Also his f-tilt is a great damage racker and his u-tilt kills around 100%. As if you are playing a Marth ditto stay on the ground. Only use SH aerials when you are already close, since if you approach with them, you will eat an f-tilt to the face. His u-tilt is deadly so you MUST be aware of it's range. It's about the same range as Marth's jab. Snake has a good throw game thanks to his d-throw. Sets up a free tech chase so be sure to switch up what you do after it. Some can roll right or left, wake up in place, or wake up attack. If you start waiting to do an action, Snake can stick a C4 on you so be careful. Snake has an awesome control game thanks to all his explosives. Grenades can thrown at you or cooked then tossed at you so they explode quickly. C4's can be be planted and used as surprise moves. Mines are simply pure space control. Well grenades can be tossed back at Snake and shielded. Mines can be hit or used against Snake. C4's can be difficult to actually hit with as long as you pay attention. You can DI his jab combo too. Just DI back and the third hit should miss most of the time, then you can punish. You will want to rely more on d-tilts on this match-up, since they outrange all of Snake's moves except the second hit of his f-tilt. Try to keep Snake in the air since he is juggle bait. He doesn't have alot of options when being juggled. For edgeguarding you can just grab the cypher when he is close and if you don't do anything, he will drop to his death when he gets out. If he is a bit farther out you can just spike him. If he is even farther just Nair him for the kill. Good Snake's will try to just recover high which means he sets himself for a juggle situation. No matter how Snake recovers Marth can take advantage of the situation. The Snake dash is also tough to deal with. To counter it you can try using SH fairs, using your counter, or shielding it and then chasing him down to punish. The key to beating Snake is to pay attention to his movements and what he does at all times. Keep him in the air to make things easier for yourself. Don't worry too much about his explosives. It's his close range game that's the real threat. He can also bring out grenades and shield so that if you attack you eat the explosion, or he can bring out a grenade and roll so he avoids you while you get hit. You can just grab or use shieldbreaker or even just space well with your attacks when he abuses shielding to drop grenades. If he rolls alot after bringing out a grenade just space your fairs then punish when he rolls or wait for the roll then punish. Also Snake has his Nikita missile for long range play and edgeguarding. Just hit it to deflect it with an attack, shield it, or roll past it.
But i have little to no success. The only things for certain i have found is marths dair will usually kill snake if he is using up to recover and it spikes. Countering the slide can work on occassion but only when you know its coming and spacing with swipes helps from dying by uptilt. Other than that i can't find any good way around snake other than too switch. I was hoping we could come up with some ideas on how to approach him because he is going to be spammed in tournaments just because he is hard to handle.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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What exactly are you having problems with.

You are being very broad.
 

Boat Mode

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
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257
Location
Long Island, NY
I haven't played any "really good" snakes, but from the few I have played, I've gotten a couple ideas. You definitely need to keep your distance, and spacing is probably more important here than most of marth's match ups. Correct placement of of air dodges and some shielding shuts down grenade spamming. I'd say don't get too in his face, and play a little more defensively than normal. I mean thats very very general, but its something to keep in mind...
 

KaosKun

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
47
Location
Leominster, MA / Lowell, MA
Alright just the approach in general. I know i am being very broad and I apologize for it. for example, i can not get out of some of the scripted situations that i see coming. Some of the C4 set ups. I don't know he is very weird to play against.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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I mean in that post that you qouted from me I go over all the basic gameplan, so you are going to have to get specific.

When dealing with C4's there is no trick to it. You just have to pay attention and focus.
 

TKD+ITA+Mar=

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
951
Location
San Diego
I found this on the Snake boards

Originally Posted by 20characters1
"Marth is too hard to approach from the air with his up smash and his side smash, So in the air with Snake it's hard to land safely on the ground so try to air dodge his sword attacks when landing. when trying to fly back to the stage Marth can jump off the stage and hit Snake with his sword and Snake has to attempt to fly back again which results in another swipe, try to air dodge this as well but it seems you can't airdodge immediately when just using your up b. If your an offensive Snake you can try to bellyflop with your backsmash onto Marth when falling on the stage or trying to recover but it is dangerous if you dont make contact first you will be back in the air with more damage and have to try to get on the ground again.

Marth on the ground is much easier to handle besides his very annoying counter, when Marth is running Shield dropping grenades is very effective to protect from a side smash or dash attack since the nades will explode when struck and you will be fine, alternately you can also try snakes triple A combo to cancel Marths initial strike and then hit him with the remainder of your combo. Dash attacking across the stage also works quite well if you don't make it your main attack. Dash attacking also bumps Marth into the air which allows for a quick mortar attack but Marth can still counter explosives so try to hit Marth when he is going up and not coming down

When Marth is falling try to draw out his counter early by jumping up and not attack fall down then jump and upsmash, Also launching mortars are an effective method when Marth is in the air and keeping him there or when he is trying to get back on the stage

When Marth is trying to recover mines aren't the greatest method to edgeguard by themselves It's best to place the c4 a little further from the edge Marth will most often try and grab on the the edge instead of trying to attack his way on the stage, I find the nikita works fine for launching him further but dont forget to cancel if your nikita misses. When Marth does get on the stage try to throw him off and repeat with the nikita method with your c4 as your support."

So that's what there going to try to do, hope this helps at least a little.
 

BacklashMarth

Smash Lord
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Directly above you tipping a dair.
I think you should short hop airdodge the grenades and pay attention to when you grab one. When you get one, toss it in his face. DONT counter the nades since they explode. The most important thing to do is to pay attention. Note wherever he drops c4 and prepare to sheild or counter it (provided the counter protects you from c4 blast damage. Snake doesn't have a way to deal with the dancing blade, so spam it while changing the slashes to prevent move decay. Always go for the spike as if your life depended on it.
 

Machiavelli.CF

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snakes ultimate weakness is his recovery!
ive used snake b4 and i would not try to attack while dalling back to the stage, for snake's areals are 2 long...

use his u-b recovery to your advantage! while he is on the cypher attack w/ an n'air or with d'air meteor smash...

there is one tip, hope it helps, i too use marth...i'm trained w/ all characters...actually...so i can alwayse help...

it works using all characters vs. snake!
 

meepxzero

Smash Master
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teaching the babies....
Full jumped fair to fast fall fair to dancing blades is a good approach. Or just running at him and dancing blade is good. I wouldnt really try short hop fair fair often on snake cuz his tilts will beat you. Dtilt is good every now and then. Snake is probably the only character u have to go all out aggressive against I feel. Ive seen my game tremendously turn around once i just keep attacking him and not allowing him to think. If you play defensive against him you end up playing into his game getting hit by snakedash, grenades, and having c4s stuck on ur shield. Dancing blades is probably ur best friend in the match up. If snake shields and wants to shield drop into his ftilt combo (which most snakes are looking to do), just slow down ur dancing blade and do the multiple hit finisher to eat his shield up completely.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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I also find myself aggroing alot in this match while on the ground.

I'm using Shieldbreaker more and more on the ground since it outranges Snake and it's working really well. Plus it means he can't abuse the grenade to shield tactic that Snakes are so fond of.

Also I love using d-tilt to force a roll or spot dodge then react wtih Dancing Blade. If you are fast enough they can't block your Dancing Blade.
 

KaosKun

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Messages
47
Location
Leominster, MA / Lowell, MA
I find myself also using shieldbreaker more against snake to stop the grenades and playing very defensively does help. It also seems like spiking is the most effective way of killing snake.

And thanks meep i think i will try to encorporate a slower dancing blade in.
 
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