FF6 Mafia - GAME OVER! Mafia wins!

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

But X1 already died, and he flipped town. What are you even saying here?

Swiss had been saying "X1 is town via my role pm", it could be saying "I'm scum, and since X1 is not one of my scumbuddies, he's town via my role pm" I can understand how MK knew strafe was maf (strago was part of the cult of kefka), but I don't see how a kappa would know umaro's alignment. Also, he was saying this before X1's lynch, if I remembered correctly.

@Swiss

If I'm town, how does me making a case against you clear you?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@nabe I think vanz is clear because of flavor. Terra's one of the main protagonists, an I think she's too strong for a safeclaim.

Think of it as batman being a safeclaim in batman mafia.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Swiss had been saying "X1 is town via my role pm", it could be saying "I'm scum, and since X1 is not one of my scumbuddies, he's town via my role pm" I can understand how MK knew strafe was maf (strago was part of the cult of kefka), but I don't see how a kappa would know umaro's alignment. Also, he was saying this before X1's lynch, if I remembered correctly.

But what you're actually saying is, "if Swiss is scum, then he knew that X1 isn't scum". So why didn't you just say that, instead of saying a phrase that doesn't seem to mean that at all?

As for Vand claiming Terra and that somehow clearing him, it's not a valid argument. We know flavour to be unreliable for judging people's innocence; if it weren't, the mafia would be villains. If anything, I'd expect Terra to be the godfather. It's a common setup choice in flavour games, especially one where massclaiming has only barely been punished (by a single piece of mod info given to an indy who needed it for balance against a whole scum team).

Kefka had a safeclaim of Gogo, but only because we would obviously suspect Kefka. The mafia won't have any safeclaims, because no one playable character stands out as "more evil". Also note that aside from Gogo, Kefka's safeclaim, every playable character is claimed and accounted for. We're even scraping the barrel on characters with Kappa and Siegfried. No one is lying about their character at this point.


@Vand: on top of all the other things I've asked you, please tell us the name of your double-voting ability as well.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

The list, stolen from Cello

1. giraffelasergun - Neighborhood Member - Relm
3. InCom - Neighborhood Recruiter 1-shot Cop - Sabin
4. Dark Horse - Roleblocking Super Saint - Cyan
5. Nabe - Double Lynch - Setzer
9. J - Voteblocking "Mason" - Mog
11. rPSI - Vigilante - Shadow
12. Vanderzant - Other Day Double Voter - Terra
13. Swiss - "Miller" with Mod information - Kappa
16. BSL - Tracker - Siegfried

For sake of completion:

Sephiroths Masamune - Hated Absorber (Blue Mage) - Strago
Tandora - Mass Roleblocker - Celes
X1 - "Mason" - Umaro
Xatres - Doctor - Locke
Zen - Mafia Debilitator - Edgar
Cello_Marl - Voteless Cop/Vanilla Townie - Gau
Meta-Kirby - Kefka!

One of Edgar's tools in FF6 is called Debilitator, here's the entry from FF6 Wiki: Assigns a random elemental weakness to one opponent. It is unblockable. Safe to assume that Zen was telling the truth about giving X1 a post restriction, and that his ability was probably to assign people random post restrictions.

Look at all the voting-related abilities. This is a game heavily based on votes and on Day phases in general with post restrictions and the slave crown too, as well as masonries to comment on the events of the Day as they unfold. Mod votes, double votes, double lynch, voteblocking. This setup, we can see, is not planned to be won in the Night phase; this is a Day-focused game and OS wants us all to play hard and play to win (he even put it in the rules). Mafia has Strago which would help to counter town's Night game, and Edgar which would hurt town's Day game. There's also the Slave Crown, which we know to be a scum ability, probably one-shot. But Strago is hated, another balance move -- why? Why cripple the mafia's Day game even more?

Mafia probably has two more members -- one with a strong Day ability, and one with a strong Night ability. Vand has to be the first. If DH doesn't flip scum, that's when we'll need to examine other players to find that strong Night ability.

The plan I have in mind gets us through the game, but we need everybody here to set it in motion. That means some actual presence from GLG, and either InCom or an InCom replacement.

 

[vanderzant]

“

Terra used Morph!

Terra’s vote now counts as two votes. She may not split the vote up. This ability cannot be used the following Day.”

 

[vanderzant]

Vote...

Lol jks.

Nabe, DH is scum because he's a roleblocker. Look at all of town's powerful night abilities, cop, tracker, mason shot, glg's reversal thing, doctor (which mod confirmed when he was successful) etc. I doubt town would have 2 roleblockers.

I don't have a slave crown ability. That was CLEARLY MK, remember he flipped "vote manipulator". I don't know FF6 flavour but that sounds like a kefka god ability that an indy would have. Lol at you saying I put that on X1 when we have a flipped indy vote manipulator (with no other evidence of vote manipulation).

I'd also like you to explain where you were going with your questions, and why I needed to answer them before you. There is nothing more to my ability then I have already claimed, I don't know why you're assuming so.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Meta-Kirby (Kefka, Independent Vote Manipulator) has been killed! Several shurikens were the tool of this attack.

Hiding in Gogo's robes, Kefka had been biding his time. Luckily for the heroes, they found him before he had showed his power! Not so lucky, innocent little Gau was also killed during the Night...

i.e. you have the Slave Crown.

 

[vanderzant]

Do you seriously want me to quote that flavour rule in the OP again?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Nabe, DH is scum because he's a roleblocker. Look at all of town's powerful night abilities, cop, tracker, mason shot, glg's reversal thing, doctor (which mod confirmed when he was successful) etc. I doubt town would have 2 roleblockers.

Tandora was a one-shot (probably) mass roleblocker. Im a single-person, unlimited times roleblocker. They're two different roles.

Also, my role name is "roleblocker" while tandora's was "mass roleblocker". If we were both the same type of roleblocker, your point could be valid, except we're not.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Do you seriously want me to quote that flavour rule in the OP again?

Oh, no worries. I'll do the footwork myself.

If you rely on flavor, you might get burned.

If I were relying on flavour, I'd be the one pushing Kefka and slave crowns. Kefka should be the one to have them. Terra having them would be out-of-flavour, and awesome, and is also exactly what OS did.

Make no mistake, DH with J hammering is the play toDay. But my focus is on you. I'd like you vigged, and I'm going to make a case as to why. The first reason, however, and the most important, is that you can't be left alive, and the reason is that you're a double voter. Now that we have proof of it, if you're scum, you can't be left alive. Since the possibility is there, you need to go. In 5-lylo, you and a partner would automatically win.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

GLG, the man of the hour.
Read up.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Just to make sure DH is the probable play for today? If so I'll vote for him in my next post.

Also Vand, I don't reverse roles, I copy. Lets say I pick player A. Player A's ability would go through fine and I would then target player A with his ability as well.

Also, last night I targeted Incom and I got a pm back saying my action failed. I find this strange because when I targeted Nabe N1 I got no pm from os.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Just to clarify: I DO NOT BLOCK PEOPLE OR REDIRECT PEOPLE

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Because I don't have a night ability. InCom has the recruitment ability, which would hardly work on him since he's already in his own neighbourhood. At least, I assume that's OS' logic. And Cello told us that InCom already used his 1-shot cop, we just haven't heard back from him at all, so that would be why you didn't get that ability.

Please plan to be more active toDay, the whole town needs to be here and on the ball.

You have your choice of picks toNight: BSL, Vand, or Swiss. That will depend on who rPSI targets however, so wait for his input as well. BSL is your safe pick if you don't hear a better option; I'd prefer if you went on Vand/Swiss, but it would be nice to have a confirm on BSL.

 

[vanderzant]

Oh, no worries. I'll do the footwork myself.

If I were relying on flavour, I'd be the one pushing Kefka and slave crowns. Kefka should be the one to have them. Terra having them would be out-of-flavour, and awesome, and is also exactly what OS did.

Make no mistake, DH with J hammering is the play toDay. But my focus is on you. I'd like you vigged, and I'm going to make a case as to why. The first reason, however, and the most important, is that you can't be left alive, and the reason is that you're a double voter. Now that we have proof of it, if you're scum, you can't be left alive. Since the possibility is there, you need to go. In 5-lylo, you and a partner would automatically win.

Despite that we have mechanics that prove what you are saying otherwise... you're saying I caused the slave crown with what reasoning?

I don't see anything other than mod WIFOM. You've done nothing but name calling in this respect.

And to your second part, assuming J/DH are lynched + Mafia kill + Vig death = 5 players still alive, I'm not a liability because I will no longer have my power, and thus if I were mafia I couldn't do an alpha strike with my partner anyway.

By using my ability toDay, I ensure there will be no quick lynch tomorrow. And regardless, there would not be a Day 6 if town mislynches in Day 5 LYLO. Ofc I could understand me being vigged if scum were lynched on Night 5, because by myself I could win in a 3 person Day 6... but this is all assuming that we don't hit scum amongst the DH/J play as well as the vig kill.

 

[BSL]

sorry i didnt post today. didnt have time at school.

there isnt too much flavor wise in my PM. it just says that since kefka died, everything has been ok.

also, i am seen as indy when investigated. not that it matters now, since our cop is gone. just giving all the info i can.

J should hammer DH, but only because of his MOD votes. ill hammer DH if you guys think i should die though.

 

[BSL]

if you want me dead, i suggest you vig me. so we dont have J in here tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Despite that we have mechanics that prove what you are saying otherwise... you're saying I caused the slave crown with what reasoning?

Mechanics? Go ahead and elaborate on that.
As for the slave crown, it's you because it wasn't Kefka, which imo we know to be true. Terra is the only other flavour option that makes sense, and Terra also fits in heavily with the "don't rely on flavour" aspect in the rules.

This is not a game completely unreliant on flavour. So far, many characters have had roles and abilities fitting the flavour. Some roles appear filled in (e.g. Gau as voteless cop) but the majority are clearly pre-thought out, and OS balanced around the roles that he had in mind with those fill-in roles. I feel very strongly that Terra could be scum purely for the sake of scum being able to claim and throw town off the scent.

Again, town should take note of how roleclaiming has remained majorly unpunished, aside from MK having mod info on Strago, who was also hated. A good balance for that (to me) would be a doublevoter with a strong claim, i.e. you.

And to your second part, assuming J/DH are lynched + Mafia kill + Vig death = 5 players still alive, I'm not a liability because I will no longer have my power, and thus if I were mafia I couldn't do an alpha strike with my partner anyway.

That was partially the point, yes. You having a double lynch held back was not a good idea. Now, it's out and in the open. It didn't occur to me that your doublevote ability and your ability code were linked, but I'd have asked you to use it toDay anyway so that's alright.

By using my ability toDay, I ensure there will be no quick lynch tomorrow. And regardless, there would not be a Day 6 if town mislynches in Day 5 LYLO. Ofc I could understand me being vigged if scum were lynched on Night 5, because by myself I could win in a 3 person Day 6... but this is all assuming that we don't hit scum amongst the DH/J play as well as the vig kill.

Terrible logic here. If the game went to a 3-person D6, and the vig was still alive somehow, then you couldn't be vigged N5. The vig couldn't hit at all during that Night, because including the scumkill that would leave the game with two players, not three. And that all ceases to be relevant, since the vig won't survive toNight anyway, unless the scum is super cocky and doesn't think they'll be shot.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

also, i am seen as indy when investigated. not that it matters now, since our cop is gone. just giving all the info i can.

Oh gosh.

BSL, please point out for everyone why what you've said here is super-scummy.
Vand, feel free to point it out if you get here first.

 

[BSL]

I guess I forgot that part at the beginning of the D2, lol.

That's why I said it was ok for me to die

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I think maybe you've missed my point.
GLG, do you see it?

 

[giraffelasergun]

Is your point that its very "convient" he appears to be not town when read?

P.s. I'm going to bed so I'll post tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vand, maybe you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[vanderzant]

Mechanics? Go ahead and elaborate on that.
As for the slave crown, it's you because it wasn't Kefka, which imo we know to be true. Terra is the only other flavour option that makes sense, and Terra also fits in heavily with the "don't rely on flavour" aspect in the rules.

I'm arguing that we can safely assume Meta-Kirby was the Slave Crown stuff because they flipped vote manipulator ffs. OS saying that Kefka didn't get to use his power is just as likely to be that MK had other abilities (which I would fully expect of an indy in a 16 player game).

You're reading way too hard into mod flavour dude.

"Terra also fits in heavily with the "don't rely on flavour" aspect in the rules."

wtfmireading.jpg

So vand has flavour that wouldn't fit a role, so he must have that role!!!

This is not a game completely unreliant on flavour. So far, many characters have had roles and abilities fitting the flavour. Some roles appear filled in (e.g. Gau as voteless cop) but the majority are clearly pre-thought out, and OS balanced around the roles that he had in mind with those fill-in roles. I feel very strongly that Terra could be scum purely for the sake of scum being able to claim and throw town off the scent.

Uh huh. I'm scum because of feelings ay.

Again, town should take note of how roleclaiming has remained majorly unpunished, aside from MK having mod info on Strago, who was also hated. A good balance for that (to me) would be a doublevoter with a strong claim, i.e. you.

Wtf, how is double voter a strong town claim? In Pikmafia I (chuckie) was a doublevoter, and if anything that put me in a scummy spotlight. Doublevoter is more typically a mafia role if anything.

That was partially the point, yes. You having a double lynch held back was not a good idea. Now, it's out and in the open. It didn't occur to me that your doublevote ability and your ability code were linked, but I'd have asked you to use it toDay anyway so that's alright.

Explaining things is too hard

Terrible logic here. If the game went to a 3-person D6, and the vig was still alive somehow, then you couldn't be vigged N5. The vig couldn't hit at all during that Night, because including the scumkill that would leave the game with two players, not three. And that all ceases to be relevant, since the vig won't survive toNight anyway, unless the scum is super cocky and doesn't think they'll be shot.

So... basically if you assume that I'm scum, my double voter ability never comes into play again if town mislynch toDay and tomorrow? Yep, because the game is already over. My logic is solid, even if my counting is off... I think

 

[vanderzant]

also, i am seen as indy when investigated. not that it matters now, since our cop is gone. just giving all the info i can.

10Ithinkthisiswhatyoumean

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

As I've said, case on you is coming. You're being a little silly.
Do you see BSL's slip?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

No, you don't. One sec while I grab the quote.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

RPSI, not mafia, Shadow.
Swiss, mafia, Kappa.

Cello didn't get indy results. He got results of mafia or not mafia.

 

[vanderzant]

Oh cool a case on me. I feel slightly better that you have other reasons for lynching me (besides this slave crown ****).

And wow you're right about BSL. Don't know why he's claimed that. I don't think he'd make that up, so he's possibly another indy. He could hammer DH... thought it might be a red herring intended to mess up town. Hmm. Maybe a vig target?

 

[BSL]

Idk, it's a restriction in my role PM. Again, I don't mind dying.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

But there's no way your role PM says that. I mean, it certainly makes sense that Siegfried would be a sort of indymiller, the party fights him a few times through FF6. But the cop in our game didn't investigate people as indy, he investigated as mafia or not mafia. If you're town or indy, you'd show up as not mafia, with no difference between the two.

 

[giraffelasergun]

BSL's willigness to die is starting to scare me...

 

[BSL]

But there's no way your role PM says that. I mean, it certainly makes sense that Siegfried would be a sort of indymiller, the party fights him a few times through FF6. But the cop in our game didn't investigate people as indy, he investigated as mafia or not mafia. If you're town or indy, you'd show up as not mafia, with no difference between the two.

my role PM doesnt actually say the word "seen". i was paraphrasing.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

You might as well have said "it was a pun".

You said cops investigate you as indy. Reword that so that it's not a massive scumslip.

 

[Swiss]

BSL scum

DH/J not both scum DH probs town same J

Nabe/Vanz? One of 'em scum.

Incom town, GLG town, rPSI town. Probably DH and J.

thoughts as I go

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Sounds right on the money to me. Except I'd put your name in place of my own, obviously.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'm thinking that BSL is either really stupid scum that needs to get shot, or really stupid town that will make a bad decision in a Lylo situation. I'll probably shoot him tonight; provided nothing huge changes in the game (aka our lynch toDay)
Personally my scum thoughts are probably J/DH (both need to die); BSL or Vand.

 

[Swiss]

J hammers DH.

Shoot BSL.

rPSI gets maf killed.


Who likes this?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

As for my flavour; I'm Shadow. I'm a ninja with my main ability to be throw. I also have a dog named interceptor. He is a ruthless dog that never leaves my side and especially hostile/ruthless when I am in danger.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Guess it's the plan.

Vote: myself