Fate/Mafia 2 - ENDGAME: And just let him ****ing die? - TOWN VICTORY

[vaanrose]

And further, Uni, I'm not sure you should have received a "No Result" result tonight.

I'll defer to the judgment of more experienced players here, but if Uni checks if someone acts, should he not receive a firm "Your target acted" or "your target did not act?"

"No Result" made sense when I was jailed. It makes less sense when I chose not to act.

 

[praline]

I still think White is the most likely mafia out of everyone

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And further, Uni, I'm not sure you should have received a "No Result" result tonight.

I'll defer to the judgment of more experienced players here, but if Uni checks if someone acts, should he not receive a firm "Your target acted" or "your target did not act?"

"No Result" made sense when I was jailed. It makes less sense when I chose not to act.

I mean, "No Result" just a paraphrase.

The message is closer to what you said.

I still think White is the most likely mafia out of everyone

The fact that no one is pointing fingers at him despite him claiming poisoner baffles me.

This is literally a repeat of the first Fate game where he claimed Townie Strongman and it somehow worked.

 

[vaanrose]

I mean, "No Result" just a paraphrase.

The message is closer to what you said.


The fact that no one is pointing fingers at him despite him claiming poisoner baffles me.

This is literally a repeat of the first Fate game where he claimed Townie Strongman and it somehow worked.

I asked for your result. When you gave it, I asked for more specificity. Now you say it wasn't "No Result" at all.

White looks super guilty, but stuff like this muddies the waters.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I asked for your result. When you gave it, I asked for more specificity. Now you say it wasn't "No Result" at all.

White looks super guilty, but stuff like this muddies the waters.

I'm a dumb dumb

But really, "User has not done an action" and "No Result" really aren't that different.

The way I see it, they literally mean the same thing. Especially since there's no specification as to why the action wasn't done.

 

[Opossum]

Vote: White

Putting it out there.

 

[vaanrose]

No quicklynches.

I don't want to end this day with only one person dead.

 

[vaanrose]

I'm a dumb dumb

But really, "User has not done an action" and "No Result" really aren't that different.

The way I see it, they literally mean the same thing. Especially since there's no specification as to why the action wasn't done.

The difference is pretty important when one night I was jailed and the next I willfully didn't act.

 

[Deleted member]

No quicklynches.

I don't want to end this day with only one person dead.

.....are you intending on killing someone during the Day....?

 

[vaanrose]

.....are you intending on killing someone during the Day....?

Not is so many words. I can't do it.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The difference is pretty important when one night I was jailed and the next I willfully didn't act.

Either way, it's obvious "No Result" means no action was done.

 

[vaanrose]

Either way, it's obvious "No Result" means no action was done.

How does your result from tonight compare to your result from tomorrow?

 

[vaanrose]

I revealed everyone's roles for a reason. We have everything we need to figure out who the mafia are.

And we have the capacity to end the phase with two of them out of this game instead of one.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I revealed everyone's roles for a reason. We have everything we need to figure out who the mafia are.

And we have the capacity to end the phase with two of them out of this game instead of one.

Care to explain yourself, Vaan?

Keeping things vague isn't exactly helpful here.

 

[Ura]

I feel like a total moron recharging White thinking he could be useful against Mafia. Even worse is that I suspected Pokechu so much because of Vaan's insistence of using it on him and my suspicion of the two at the time due to Nabe's last minute PM. Then I hear about White poisoning Nabe and that through me off a loop.

I really want to get Maven out given what I said before but then there's White we have to contend with.

Suffice to say however, I intend to rectify all my shortcomings and overall uselessness to town.

 

[vaanrose]

Care to explain yourself, Vaan?

Keeping things vague isn't exactly helpful here.

We come to a decision on who we think is mafia, and then we release the kraken.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

we release the kraken.

Heh. That's clever.

 

[vaanrose]

Reiterating, The Stoopid Unikorn

How does your result from tonight compare to your result from yesterday?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Reiterating, The Stoopid Unikorn

How does your result from tonight compare to your result from yesterday?

Identical.

 

[vaanrose]

Okay.

So, in Swamp's game, on the last night, Yellow claimed he'd make an action, I forget which exactly, and then was the mafia kill. But on the following day, there was a question of whether his death prevented him from acting. Swamp informed us no. Death is not a roleblock.

But as I understand it, that's not a rule all across the board. It was very perplexing to me that Chu did not receive a result of Nabe targeting me when he watched me. Ura thought it might be because Nabe was blocked, but I don't buy that. It seems to me, that if Uni received the same results both nights, it was simply because I never acted both nights, and Nabe's jail had absolutely no effect on me, because he was killed.

This is important. It means in this game, death=roleblock. And THAT'S the only logic behind killing Pokechu. He had used up his watching. He wasn't much of a threat anymore. Except when it comes to his second action, one I believe he kept fairly close to the chest.

So why kill him? To avoid the redirect. Anyone who realized Nabe couldn't have jailed me, or Pokechu would've seen Nabe, would then realize the only thing they need to do to stop Pokechu is to kill him.

And that's where I run into an issue with Maven. Pokechu was so adamant not to redirect Maven that he ran straight to Maven to get his opinion, and then Pokechu was the target of the kill. The timing is a little too suspect for me to ignore.

 

[praline]

Care to explain yourself, Vaan?

Keeping things vague isn't exactly helpful here.

Allegedly Coricus has a day kill so if we figure out 2 mafia we can potentially kill more than one today or prove that she’s mafia if she doesn’t kill anyone.

 

[vaanrose]

I'd also like to talk a bit about something White said. "I don't like OP."

There's merit here. Many of the roles have been heavily inferior to versions found in past games. But not all of them.

Pokechu's watching was one-shot. Why? I can maybe understand a one shot redirect. Maybe. But watcher is hardly a broken ability, especially in a game with three other trackers of some kind. And he couldn't be protected?

Bard had no active role whatsoever. He was entirely reactive. He couldn't do anything if wanted to.

I'm not too far off from that myself. I have absolutely zero agency with my role. I cannot kill without Praline. Plain and simple, I depend 100% on another user to even consider using my skill. The only concession I get from that is immunity from the one person I can kill, which, if the death=roleblock thing from above is in effect, hardly makes a difference.

White's tracking skill is arguably the strongest in the game, and that's before we consider what he told me last night. That thing doesn't go away. It stays attached to the person forever, telling White how many actions are targeted to that player and how many they perform each and every night. He said he thought it was "to balance how weak it is." But it's stronger than Uni's even before this concession.

And, of course, he can poison people. He claims it's one-shot, but he can use it on anyone. In a way, that makes him a more effective Vig than the actual Vig.

So let's look at Praline's skill. He makes someone a target for my kill, but doing that also cures their poison. It's a catch-22. Saving someone puts them at risk of me killing them. There's also the concern for balance regarding why both poisoners AND the poison-healer would be on the same side. That feels designed specifically to set up the town for in-fighting, which is major pet peeve of mine for game balance. I'm not saying it can't be true, but I am saying I really hope it's not.

 

[praline]

And now I’m pretty certain mafia’s killing me the next night phase...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Vote: White

There's absolutely no way the poisoner and the poison doc are on the same side. That would make literally no sense.

 

[vaanrose]

Now, I have considered the possibility that both poisoners are town and it's praline that's mafia. In a way, that makes some sense, because, in that case, curing a mafia teammate's poison and leaving them open to get Vig'd is a decent balance.

But I cannot kill without knowing my target has the dragon attribute. If I try to kill someone without it, I not only fail, I'm punished by not being able to act the next night, too. My role must be designed to function co-cooperatively with Praline's.

 

[vaanrose]

Ura - Neutral Town leaning. I don't like the way's he's played. I don't like that he wouldn't help Pokechu. But I don't think he's mafia. Recharger is a ballsy fakeclaim, even if I think it's actually a pretty good one.

Uni - 50/50. I waver back and forth between him and White extensively. I believe White's skills are genuine, but I'm not sure I believe Uni's skills are genuine just yet. They just seem really, really weak, even by this game's balancing standards.

White - Same as above. I largely hesitate to take him out because I want to kill some mafia players tonight and fear he may be third party.

Cori - Heavily Town leaning. This one's pretty easy to test, so much so that I don't consider her a candidate for discussion. She either does the thing or she's mafia.

Yellow - Neutral Town leaning. He was fairly co-operative last night, but I await his results to truly make a judgment.

Golden - Mostly Town leaning. See no reason to think lie detector is mafia. I guess I can't rule it out, tho. Again, I'd be curious what his results are. It's a bit interesting that the mafia wiki says lie detectors are often one-shot, but Golden's role appears to not be that even in a game with several unusual one-shots.

Praline - Pretty much confirmed town in my book. He knew about the dragon trait before I told him about it, so it wasn't a fake claim in reaction to mine, and again, I'm pretty confident our skills are designed to function together. If he's mafia, I'll be more salty at the game designers than I will be at him.

Maven - Neutral Scum leaning. I'm not fond of his claim being dead last when it's easiest to fake claim, nor that he apparently had access to jailing last night but opted not to use it. Still don't like the timing between his communication with Pokechu and Pokechu's death. But I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. It's just hard when I have so much information to go off from literally everybody else.

Opo - Mafia leaning. Unless Golden says he used his lie detection to prove Opo's role, I have zero reason to trust him yet. He's the one unknown left and has no history of night actions. If his role is too powerful to let die, he certainly hasn't seen fit to use it yet, and I struggle to think of what it could be. There are no alignments in this game so it's not a cop.

 

[Maven89]

And that's where I run into an issue with Maven. Pokechu was so adamant not to redirect Maven that he ran straight to Maven to get his opinion, and then Pokechu was the target of the kill. The timing is a little too suspect for me to ignore.

I want to address this first, because there's a flaw in it. Even if I was mafia, Pokechu redirecting me would matter little, because the mafia could just pick someone else to do the kill.

But more importantly was my conversation with Pokechu. I roleclaimed when he asked (and only to him) because Pokechu was my only strong town read. The way he jumped up and down saying "kill me kill me" day 1 was a strong town tell because scum wouldn't do that, unless it was a crazy gambit, but I don't read Pokechu as the type of player to try and pull that off.

omg

thank you SO MUCH

see, I was really scared for a second, because vaan, I think he's townie, but he's been asking me to redirect you to Opossum

and I really didn't think you were mafia because you defended Barney, I think a scum would want to lynch that role because it can't be killed during the night w/o killing its killer, and a scum could've easily hopped on the wagon because it was a majority lynch after all, no one could use their vote against them

so I've really been questioning Vaan, I really didn't want/see a reason to redirect you just because vaan knew everyone else's claims but you and Opo's

I won't tell anyone, definitely, this cat's in the bag!

I suggested he redirect praline to vaan, because I was suspicious of both.

OK DAM vaan went really hard on me trying to get me to redirect u 2 opo

i told him i knew your role from someone ELSE who told me (not that u told me, someone else did)

im so sorry! i couldnt get him off my back and he had a whole writeup that he was sending to people he trusted with everyone's roles and their intended targets for this night, and that whoever didn't act accordingly would be ganged up on basically

so in the writeup he had me redirect u 2 opo but now im just redirecting opo 2 opo

im so sorry! maaan im so sorry i just didn't know how to get him off your back

TL;DR i didnt tell ur role to vaan but to get him off my back i said someone told me it (that someone isnt you)

So there would be zero reason for me to want Pokechu dead, town or scum, because he actually redirected Opossum to himself

I've been busy the last two days, after the morning part of my job when I made my case on Vaan I had two bed bug jobs (I'm an exterminator) which took 4-5 hours each, I was exhausted, and today I was off with people and didn't bother checking in much. To be honest, I'm still not a fan of the night PM game, and didn't mind missing it. I saw White and Ura both messaged me, but I didn't bother to respond to either. White had roleclaimed night 1, and I didn't see a need to respond because I wasn't going to roleclaim back. Ura basically begged me to role claim both nights but I refused. Apparently you guys hate that, but I still think it's the best strategy when you have a good role to not just out it, especially before you can use it.

White roleclaimed as an archer who can target someone and see how many actions they preform, then said it wasn't how many they did, or how many were done on them, just how many. I'm not sure what that means.

I talked to Ura a little night 1, after he claimed to be able to recharge abilities, but he basically kept hounding me for my role so I told him I was a 14xdayvig bulletproof jester, he then asked if my vig claim was series than just kept asking for my role. Normally I'd find that scummy as **** but I know by now that's just common so I brushed it off.

Pokechu then messaged me shortly before deadline, telling me a bunch of people were suspicious of me for not roleclaiming. That was the first I heard of it, I figured I'd be pretty damn cleared at this point, Bardul is the role scum would want lynched the most since they can't kill him. So I roleclaimed to Pokechu, which led to the exchange above.

I'll also say I've never heard of a game where you're told the actions preformed on you, I don't think Mario party mafia had that, I know dgame games never had that.

 

[vaanrose]

Ura basically begged me to role claim both nights but I refused. Apparently you guys hate that, but I still think it's the best strategy when you have a good role to not just out it, especially before you can use it.

I talked to Ura a little night 1, after he claimed to be able to recharge abilities, but he basically kept hounding me for my role so I told him I was a 14xdayvig bulletproof jester, he then asked if my vig claim was series than just kept asking for my role. Normally I'd find that scummy as **** but I know by now that's just common so I brushed it off.

Just cutting these points out cause I want to address them. Ura straight just asking everybody for roles is not our usual M.O. and I even chastised him for it myself, and kind of played a mean trick on him to get him to learn to be more careful with his role info by getting him to roleclaim first and then never giving him mine.

But usually we do want to leave a trail somewhere. Nabe played it right, telling one person and then last minute telling another one person. Even if it contributed to a mis-lynch, it was a good play, imo, and I basically did the same thing. I told two people my role night one, and only two people, so if I woke up dead, one could finger the other.

Cause right now the big issue is that we've got no paper trail for you at all.

I'd be genuinely curious for your input regarding everybody else's roles and actions. I think all the pieces are there and I don't want to be the only one trying to decipher them. I'm as fallible as anybody.

 

[vaanrose]

Natz~

Can I get yesterday's final vote tally?

 

[vaanrose]

Okay, she's inactive.

Fine.

katts vote madness tracker~
so everyone can keep track of **** and stuff​

only gonna post this one here and leave it unedited, if anyone wants an updated version just tag me

votes needed for majority lynch, 7

Bardul (5) ura, praline, pokechu, vaanrose, golden

Spoiler: vote log

ura: votes bardul (8:42 pm)
praline: votes bardul (11:02 pm)
pokechu: votes bardul (11:15 pm)
vaanrose: votes bardul (11:21 pm)
golden: votes bardul (11:28 pm)

This is the last tracker of the day.

5 votes of 7.

Here's the way the rest of the votes played out.

Vote: Unikorn

I voted for Uni.

Down to four votes against Bard.

vote: BardulL

Back to five.

Vote: BarDulL

I vote again. Back to six. And then?

thats it then

votes are frozen people

no more voting will be accounted for

Seeing a problem here? That's six votes, not seven.


So the only question I've got here is who am I salty at? Natz for counting wrong?

Or Ura, Praline, Golden or Opo for being a goddamn double voter.

 

[vaanrose]

Ura praline @GoldenYuiitusin Opossum

Any of you lot vote before I get a response from the hosts and I'll hold you in contempt of court.

 

[vaanrose]

It's 200° in Los Angeles now, I'm not sleeping.

Here's who voted for Shiny:

Praline, Cori, Uni, Maven, Opo

Sadly, it didn't reach majority, so I can't conclude Praline or Opo is mayor off this.

But still. Praline and Opo in both mislynches. Gonna jot that one down in my handy-dandy notebook.

 

[vaanrose]

I think Praline is the one I can trust in this game the most. I'm also pretty sure I know the full extent of his role.

Ura's been needlessly difficult with me and still hasn't actually proven his role. On the upside though, he didn't listen to me and use his ability on Pokechu. Wolfie557 will either make or break if his role is legit.

Golden is lie detector. I trust this claim. Could he be both? If he's both, it's extra suspicious Uni has one lousy awful ability.

But Opo? Opo has no claim.

 

[vaanrose]

If I had time before the Night ended, I could have relayed what Opo's role was. He told me earlier today.

Trust me when I say you don't want to take him out.

Golden knows Opo's claim. Now I want to know it. I see no need to hide it anymore. Every other role is on the table.

 

[vaanrose]

Quoting PMs is the new meta.

Well my role is a support that involves turning people to dragons during the night.

It doesn’t do much to them but through my role I do know what someone else can do

You know what? **** it. I’ll tell you the rest of my role.

One other player has a poison ability. My ability makes the person I turn into a dragon become immune to poison.

Praline didn't know I killed dragons, yet knew about the dragon trait. He knew about the poison before White or BarduL brought it up. My role is also just one active skill and a passive skill.

I'm considering praline accounted for.

 

[vaanrose]

So that leaves Ura, Golden or Opo.

Fortunately, knowing what almost everybody is doing at night has its benefits.

Wolfie557 Yes or no? Did Ura recharge you?

@GoldenYuiitusin Who did you lie detect last night and what were the results? I asked you to check something by White or Uni, though you never confirmed exactly who you checking.

Yellowlord I asked you to track Opossum. What were the results?

 

[praline]

It's 200° in Los Angeles now, I'm not sleeping.

Here's who voted for Shiny:

Praline, Cori, Uni, Maven, Opo

Sadly, it didn't reach majority, so I can't conclude Praline or Opo is mayor off this.

But still. Praline and Opo in both mislynches. Gonna jot that one down in my handy-dandy notebook.

Honestly for Bar I never got the change to unvote him cause I forgot that quick lynches were a thing in this one.

 

[vaanrose]

Quoting PMs is legitimately broken, and I will be arguing against including this in any game from this point on.

Here's the deal, Uni. There's a reason I never voted for Shiny. It was a trap, and you walked into it. Several people know my plan now. One of them is able to prove my claim and demonstrate that I'm town. People are independently suspicious of Bardul, and you two working together is only going to make things harder for you tomorrow.

If you are town, it's time to make a case stronger than the one against you, because I don't even need to be alive tomorrow for it to be brought up now.

After I sent this to Uni, he shut right the hell up. Absolutely no response.

But it was obviously enough to get him to target me that night with a "harmless" ability. Which, fortunately, was blocked by Nabe. (Thanks for distrusting me, Nabe!). When he was called out on it the morning of, all he had to say:

Some talk with vaan made me back down after I noticed you have an oddly similar role that he had in the last game.

But I'm not a gambler, not in this game, so I got paranoid and backed down.

That's it. That's all he had to say, a complete non-answer.

I spent the rest of the night fighting with Bardul, and when I finally cooled down, I turned back to Uni.

Just tell me why you targeted me with an ability you had told people was "harmless?" That's the question on everybody's mind.

Because you said you wanted me NOT to target Bardull and that you wanted to be part of this.

And somehow, doing what you asked makes me even more suspicious. Literally what?

Here's what I actually said.

Voting Shiny has put you on people's radar, Uni. Bardull was already on people's radar for trying to make Nabe seem worse than he was.

Right now, all I'm seeing is the two most suspicious people suggesting they'll prove their roles by using each other. That's not a good look, any way you slice it.

You should let me in on what you're doing. If you prefer, tell me Bardull's role instead.

Let me in on it. Not be a part of it. Of course I called him out on it then.

I said I wanted to be let in on the plan. Using a skill on me without telling me isn't letting me in on the plan.

And he replied:

I did things the way I did in Mario Mafia; be quiet until I can prove my role so there's evidence backing it up.

Sadly, I got no result from you last night, which makes me think you did literally nothing. How can I use "nothing" as evidence?

I said:

Did you get no result, or did you get "no result?"

He said:

I got a "no result" message.

Okay. First instance of saying he received the exact message "no result."

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Night 2. I ask Uni more about his role. He sends me this:

I get confirmation of whether the target did an action or not.

I don't know who they did it on, nor the action itself.

He gets confirmation of whether the target did an action or not.

I asked him about the utility of this role. For me, it's not whether a role seems believable or not. It's what purpose does it serve in the design of the game itself?

Here's what he said.

I mean... Could confirm if someone's a blocker or something, I dunno...

Not my fault if my role sucks.

How? How could it possibly?

I don't know who they did it on, nor the action itself.

So I decided to make a play.

I told Uni to target me again last night. My logic was this: If ALL Uni gets back is a "Yes, they acted" or "No, they did not act," his role was far more effective at proving someone didn't act than proving someone did. After all, it's a game with a bunch of power roles. Most people should be acting every night. You're far more likely to get a "Yes" result than a "No," so "No" is the stronger result.

He agreed.

Flash forward to this morning. Here's my exchange with Uni, verbatim.

Night Results?

None.

None, or "No Result?"

"No result"

So far so good. Except, hang on a minute.

I get confirmation of whether the target did an action or not.

Confirmation of whether the target did an action or not.

"No result" is not confirmation I didn't do an action. It's no result.

That made sense when I was jailed. That's when you get no result.

So I point that out.

And further, Uni, I'm not sure you should have received a "No Result" result tonight.

I'll defer to the judgment of more experienced players here, but if Uni checks if someone acts, should he not receive a firm "Your target acted" or "your target did not act?"

"No Result" made sense when I was jailed. It makes less sense when I chose not to act.

I mean, "No Result" just a paraphrase.

The message is closer to what you said.

Oh, so it was never "No Result" at all? It's "closer to what I said."

Reiterating, The Stoopid Unikorn

How does your result from tonight compare to your result from yesterday?

Identical.

Notice right now HE STILL HAS NOT SAID WHAT HIS RESULTS ACTUALLY WERE.

Now he's saying the FIRST result he got was "close" to "your target did not act."

Which, of course, it shouldn't have been. Because I was jailed and his action wouldn't have gone through.

He'd have gotten "No Result" just like he claimed from the very beginning.

Not once in this entire ordeal has he EVER definitively said what his results were. He backtracks. Backtracks again. Deflects.

And the real irony here?

This post.

Care to explain yourself, Vaan?

Keeping things vague isn't exactly helpful here.

Keeping things vague isn't exactly helpful here.

 

[vaanrose]

And I'm going to double down on this.

Someone in the mafia voted for Shiny. I will die on this hill.

I've been mafia thee times in four games. And if there's one thing has been true every time, someone in the mafia joins the day one lynch. If this isn't true this time I will hand in my mafia card and retire from the game.

Uni's vote that day stood out to me above all others. It's what started all of this.

Vote: Shiny

As much as we joke about him not reading, I gotta point out that he usually tends to catch up and go through every page he misses on threads he watches.

Not saying hge reads every post, but sometime, people get Shiny likes from posts made hours ago because dude's trying to catch up.

This doesn't seem to be the case here, which is strangely uncharacteristic of him.

My entire argument was simple. Shiny was faking not reading the thread.

Then in comes Uni, offering evidence for Shiny. Shiny's not liking his posts. That's evidence he's actually not reading the thread.

I even pointed this out at the time.

Maybe I'm misreading you, but are you suggesting the fact that Shiny isn't like spamming everybody is what's uncharacteristic?

This was exactly what I was hoping for. Someone would come in and argue why Shiny was really not reading the thread and my whole theory was every bit as stupid as I knew it was. But Uni did me even better. He did that and then voted anyway.

 

[vaanrose]

Uni has failed to definitively explain his incredibly simple, incredibly weak role at every turn. He's backtracked repeatedly.

He voted for Shiny and falling into my trap ticked him off enough to target me night one.

Were it not for Nabe not trusting me either, who knows what would have happened.

Instead, Ura told the whole thread right away that Nabe jailed me. Everyone knew it. And then Pokechu claimed he saw Uni target me.

Now Uni had to scramble. He had to come up with something to explain why he targeted me. It took four hours for him to even comment on what Pokechu saw, and he didn't claim. It took him another twelve hours and some rigorous poking from me before he'd even say he got "no result" from me.