Social Falcon CHAT! The Captain Falcon Social Thread

[A2ZOMG]

Popping in to say, Up-throw is hella underrated on Falcon. Why people don't use this throw more baffles me, given Falcon has some of the best air traps in the game.

Another thing that's really underrated is using B-throw to send people to the opposite ledge at high percents. You can chase this with Falcon's amazing run speed and still have enough time to get under your opponent with a U-air edgeguard for the KO.

 

[TheGreatBrawler]

Popping in to say, Up-throw is hella underrated on Falcon. Why people don't use this throw more baffles me, given Falcon has some of the best air traps in the game.

Another thing that's really underrated is using B-throw to send people to the opposite ledge at high percents. You can chase this with Falcon's amazing run speed and still have enough time to get under your opponent with a U-air edgeguard for the KO.

I use up throw a lot at low percents.

 

[teluoborg]

But what does Uthrow do better than Dthrow or Fthrow though ? If you wanna pressure someone from under, Dthrow does it better and puts them into a threatening range where they have to make a decision or they eat an Uair/knee/etc. The only good point of Uthrow is that it sends the opponent vertically with very little directional influence, while Dthrow and Fthrow are easier to DI. But aside from that it sends people way too high, and in this game where airdodges have almost no lag in the air it's not really interesting.
Uthrow is a good mixup when you want to screw with people's mind and the best throw to style with in doubles, but it's in no way underrated.

And that use of Bthrow seems interesting, but what do you gain over simply Fthrowing people offstage and edgeguarding them right there ?

 

[A2ZOMG]

But what does Uthrow do better than Dthrow or Fthrow though ? If you wanna pressure someone from under, Dthrow does it better and puts them into a threatening range where they have to make a decision or they eat an Uair/knee/etc. The only good point of Uthrow is that it sends the opponent vertically with very little directional influence, while Dthrow and Fthrow are easier to DI. But aside from that it sends people way too high, and in this game where airdodges have almost no lag in the air it's not really interesting.
Uthrow is a good mixup when you want to screw with people's mind and the best throw to style with in doubles, but it's in no way underrated.

And that use of Bthrow seems interesting, but what do you gain over simply Fthrowing people offstage and edgeguarding them right there ?

D-throw is better at low percents where you actually have combos. At higher percents, putting people offstage as Falcon with F-throw isn't that good most of the time when his low edgeguards can be really limited (you have F-air and D-air mostly, which can be very strong on a matchup specific basis but only can cover certain options regardless). At higher percents, my observation is you profit a lot more from generic air traps, which you can set up better with either U-throw or the B-throw setup that I mentioned. The goal is to put your opponent high above you near the ledge, but not very far away from it to limit where they can land. While U-throw is more straightforward, B-throw does more damage and that setup can sometimes catch people by surprise who don't realize that Falcon's run speed is the reason why it can work.

Falcon's U-air and his fallspeed also is literally fast enough in this game to frametrap airdodges, hence why putting people above you as Falcon is especially good. He actually can create inescapable setups from it. Yes the throw's high knockback prevents it from being explicitly broken, but generally speaking Falcon is probably the best character in the game at capitalizing above him, so it's still super strong and should be abused more than putting people offstage.

Don't get me wrong, putting people offstage with F-throw isn't necessarily bad, it's just that I've seen many Falcon players go for this out of habit when you have more options than that, which in several matchups are often more practical than edgeguarding. Falcon has no trouble KOing his opponent when he's able to follow their defensive options, but edgeguarding specifically is really not his strongest point.

 

[teluoborg]

"He actually can create inescapable setups from it."
Wow wow, do you have actual proof for that ? Like actual frame data ? Because sure, Uair on airdodge seems like a legit frame trap but going all the way out and affirming it is another level.

"...but generally speaking Falcon is probably the best character in the game at capitalizing above him,"
No ? I mean have you looked at the rest of the cast ? Have you played with/against Rosalina, ZSS or Diddy ?

I'll try that strat you're talking about see if Uthrow does it better than Dthrow, but you should be careful with your phrasing.

 

[A2ZOMG]

"He actually can create inescapable setups from it."
Wow wow, do you have actual proof for that ? Like actual frame data ? Because sure, Uair on airdodge seems like a legit frame trap but going all the way out and affirming it is another level.

"...but generally speaking Falcon is probably the best character in the game at capitalizing above him,"
No ? I mean have you looked at the rest of the cast ? Have you played with/against Rosalina, ZSS or Diddy ?

I'll try that strat you're talking about see if Uthrow does it better than Dthrow, but you should be careful with your phrasing.

I don't think Falcon's U-air is slower than Ganon's, and I know from numbers that Ganon's U-air if perfectly timed can legitimately frametrap airdodges given it actually has less total duration than an airdodge.

Also one thing Falcon has over all the characters you mentioned is raw run speed allowing him to get under characters. Yes, ZSS and Diddy also move fast and have pretty ridiculous air traps when they are in position, but Falcon's aerials cover slightly more space than ZSS's and his U-air in fact is stronger than Diddy's. Basically the point is, Falcon's punishes above him are not only devastating, but they're consistent (not necessarily easy, because you NEED good positioning and have to react/anticipate matchup specific movement options before jumping usually, but once you get yourself under someone in the air, they should be getting hit even if they airdodge your attack).

 

[BigLord]

Popping in to say, Up-throw is hella underrated on Falcon. Why people don't use this throw more baffles me, given Falcon has some of the best air traps in the game.

Another thing that's really underrated is using B-throw to send people to the opposite ledge at high percents. You can chase this with Falcon's amazing run speed and still have enough time to get under your opponent with a U-air edgeguard for the KO.

I've been thinking of using u-throw a lot more often, yeah, but I use b-throw as a mix-up move all the time, specially when my opponent is on the opposite ledge. If Falcon reacts fast enough, he can easily combo afterwards (I think Falcon runs faster than the thrown opponent, lol talk about racing the bullet).

 

[A2ZOMG]

I've been thinking of using u-throw a lot more often, yeah, but I use b-throw as a mix-up move all the time, specially when my opponent is on the opposite ledge. If Falcon reacts fast enough, he can easily combo afterwards (I think Falcon runs faster than the thrown opponent, lol talk about racing the bullet).

Yeah I mean I was playing For Glory against this good Falcon (I was Doc that game if anyone asks), and evidently he got tired of me avoiding his edgeguard attempts and he just used B-throw on me, got under me, and killed me for trying to airdodge the juggle, and I was like "oh...right. Can't let Falcon get under you in this game".

I'm trying to slowly learn all the characters in this game as a way to level up my Ganon matchup knowledge...and I've found U-throw to do exactly what I expect it to do. I mean sure...even a low level Falcon like me can get some basic combos from D-throw and against weaker recoveries I know I can edgeguard people with F-air. But dang man, that moment when you realize Falcon's options above him are just ludicrously good.

 

[teluoborg]

Oh you're talking about online, my bad then yes Uair is godlike at juggles (though I still disagree about it being better than ZSS or Diddy because it lacks the kill power those two have). What's even better online though is Falcon's ground game, I swear with the latency it's impossible for people to react to Falcon kick and dash grab, and they are forced to change their game plan around it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falcon's U-air kills earlier than Diddy's...just sayin. Sure he doesn't have the guaranteed throw combo into death, but his ability to generally punish mistakes above him is pretty unrivaled.

 

[Darky-Sama]

But what does Uthrow do better than Dthrow or Fthrow though ? If you wanna pressure someone from under, Dthrow does it better and puts them into a threatening range where they have to make a decision or they eat an Uair/knee/etc.

This is exactly how I feel about it. There are a few situations where I'll use Uthrow instead of Dthrow, but that's mainly when I'm in the center of Battlefield and I know I can time a double jump Uair and safely cancel on the platform closest to them. Stages with platforms make all the difference. But even then, Dthrow sets up for a lot more at higher percentages and can setup for easy regrabs and pressure depending on how react. A lot of people air dodge on reaction because they expect a knee - and if they double jump, you get a free option select.

 

[teluoborg]

Falcon's U-air kills earlier than Diddy's...just sayin.

No way in hell lmao.

 

[TheGreatBrawler]

No way in hell lmao.

Test it.

 

[teluoborg]

Training mode on Mario on the top platform of BF : Falcon 130%, Diddy 125%

You can try with rage effect if you care enough.

 

[TheGreatBrawler]

Training mode on Mario on the top platform of BF : Falcon 130%, Diddy 125%

You can try with rage effect if you care enough.

Not that huge of a difference, very small difference in fact. Since Falcon's up air is sort of like Diddy, everyone should complain about Falcon too!

 

[Darky-Sama]

Falcon's Uair has different knockback/angles depending on what part connects though. It's rare that we'll ever kill with Uair quicker than Diddy though because unlike Diddy, we rely almost entirely on our Uair for damage. It'll be stale by the time you try to kill with it.

And a character shouldn't be living beyond 130% against Falcon in the first place. You should have gotten the Dthrow>Uair>Knee starting at 60% already.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Nvm Diddy's U-air does kill earlier than Falcon's. Falcon's however kills earlier than ZSS's.

Either way the point I was more getting at is that Falcon's air traps are really good, and you can get kills from them with pretty good consistency, hence why U-throw (and B-throw to a lesser extent) are highly underrated. In several matchups, this is stronger than trying to edgeguard with Falcon, which I see a lot of Falcon players default to.

Falcon's Uair has different knockback/angles depending on what part connects though. It's rare that we'll ever kill with Uair quicker than Diddy though because unlike Diddy, we rely almost entirely on our Uair for damage. It'll be stale by the time you try to kill with it.

And a character shouldn't be living beyond 130% against Falcon in the first place. You should have gotten the Dthrow>Uair>Knee starting at 60% already.

That specific combo is not always that easy to set up when you factor rage, DI, and your opponent doing different things in various situations. It's always good to know more setups.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Even with proper DI, it's possible to buffer a dash and Uair before the hitstun ends if you're within the correct percentage range for each weight class. The timing becomes more strict, sure, but the first Uair should always be possible. Though I do agree that rage make things a bit more complicated.

Not saying that we should always be going for that setup to kill because it's not always available to us. But I do stand by my point that Uair is difficult to kill with when we're using it as our main pressure tool when characters are above us. Which let's face it, a vast number of our moves put characters either directly above us or above us at an angle where Uair covers.

It is a kill move now, though. Especially in rage. So yeah, it's not bad to throw out at high percents if you were unable to get a Knee, Bair or Raptor Boost in before that point. Chances are if they're in the air at that percentage, you're going to be trying to hit with it anyway.

EDIT: I've also been incorporating SHFFL firsthit Nair > Dtilt into my playstyle against non-fastfallers these days. The horizontal knockback is phenomenal. It puts people at an awkward angle to recover from at higher percentages - and makes opponents hit the ground pretty fluently between 30-60%. If they don't tech, you can run forward and short hop knee punish if they do a getup attack (or fastfall and go for a buffered dash grab in the direction they roll). It's also possible to hit them with the ending frames of dash attack after they hit the ground - which if the last couple of frames connect, it leads into Uair pretty easily as a true combo.

SHFFL FH Nair > Up+B is still beautiful for frame traps though.

 

[teluoborg]

Nvm Diddy's U-air does kill earlier than Falcon's. Falcon's however kills earlier than ZSS's.

But ZSS' Uair can lead into an up B and kill you at 60%. Falcon's Uair can lead into a knee but only under very specific conditions.

Either way the point I was more getting at is that Falcon's air traps are really good, and you can get kills from them with pretty good consistency, hence why U-throw (and B-throw to a lesser extent) are highly underrated. In several matchups, this is stronger than trying to edgeguard with Falcon, which I see a lot of Falcon players default to.

I agree that Uair is crazy strong, I often get 5-6 straight Uairs strings on low % opponents without breaking a sweat, but really I don't think Uthrow and Bthrow lead into them better than Dthrow, and getting people offstage is also free % even if you can't get the kill/gimp. Seriously edgeguarding is really easy in this game thanks to the disappearance of ledge invincibility frames, and unlike Uair strings it isn't countered by a well timed FF airdodge.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

All of Falcon's throws are pretty useful.

I like Up Throw but Down-Throw outshines it in most percents. With Rage, Up-Throw and Back-Throw actually kill and that's useful when you're having trouble landing substantial hits on opponents. But Down Throw does a much better job in most cases of putting us in advantageous situations. At higher percents where we lose the ability to reliably combo, sure I definitely whip out Up-Throw. If I can condition them to react a certain way or scare them with a barrage of Up-Airs, I've done my job.

Basically I look at things in this order:

60-80% ish: "Okay I might be able to get a Up-Air-Knee or Down-Throw > Knee if I can get them by the ledge"

80-100% ish "Okay so much for setups. Maybe I can read them really hard with a Knee or F-Smash?

100-120 ish: "Alright...Raptor Boost time. Just don't fish for it. Wait to the moment to come to you. or "I've got them by the ledge, Back Air can totally kill if I do this right" or "If I can bait out an airdodge, Up Air 's got this"

120-140ish: "Hmmmm...I bet they won't see this Falcon Kick coming" or I dare you to airdodge above me....make my day. Let me "Up-Air you"

Higher percents: "Eh. well at least I have got 3 throws that can potentially kill."

 

[Darky-Sama]

TechChase pretty much summarized my game plan in a single post. You just have to be creative with how you actually do those things. Especially the Raptor Boost setup.

I generally like doing SHFFL Nair > Buffer dash forward > Immediately Raptor Boost the opposite direction. Falcon does a pretty slick teleport behind the opponent and the Raptor Boost will hit them (or their shield from behind). This makes it possible to avoid shield grabs and many OoS options due to your positioning. Can still be punished though.

Any other time, I just run past opponents and do the same method. Raptor Boost in the opposite direction as soon as you pass them. Sometimes, people will try to grab Falcon or press a button on reaction when he gets close (like grab / SH Nair / jab or something ridiculous). Also, if you run past an opponent and they realize they didn't get hit, many players have a tendency to jump immediately. And they obviously won't be wanting to jump+air dodge. So Raptor Boost usually punishes their options significantly well.

A straight forward Raptor Boost is never a good idea. lol

 

[BigLord]

A straight forward Raptor Boost is never a good idea. lol

I've played against so many Private Falcons on For Glory who do this, haha. They're probably used to playing against laggy players who simply can't shield fast enough in reaction to Raptor Boost (who, admittedly, is pretty darn fast)

 

[Darky-Sama]

Actually, I shouldn't have worded it like that. It is good if you know someone's air dodging into the ground or you know it'll beat out something else (which unlike previous games, it rarely beats out anything from the delayed "hit" portion of the attack). Also, if you hit someone onto the ground close to Falcon at lower percentages. Fthrow and Bair lead into it pretty fluently at certain percents depending on the weight class of a character. You can also do SHFFL FH.Nair> Dtilt -> dash forward -> Raptor Boost the direction they roll (if any). If they start doing a getup attack, just shorthop and knee them out of it. lol

 

[NickC]

~Howdy~ you guys, I hope everyone gets a few uptilts in today

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

T'was a tournament this weekend.

3rd out of 16 in doubles.

7th out of 63 in singles.

Last two singles events, I got 7th out of 53 and 7 out of 41. I'm seeing a pattern. JUST OUTSIDE THE MONEY EVERYTIME.

I used /. (Mostly Falcon but Sonic saved me in some troublesome MUs.) People love my Falcon. I'm happy I can handle Diddy, Sheik etc. Losing to other MUs I don't know as well. But I'm gonna keep learning. I'm proud of my consistency. Time to get better and show them my moves!

 

[Allastom]

Let's just be real, Falcon's throw game in general is really good.
I haven't tested much on his u-throw, but I think it could be a good mixup for people expecting the generic Falcon moves.

I may be a little late.

 

[TheGreatBrawler]

Is it just me or the Falcon punch is much weaker than in brawl?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Is it just me or the Falcon punch is much weaker than in brawl?

Its not you. It got nerfed. It's practically unusable unless you're opponent is bad and/or you're trolling.

It gives you a bit of a horizontal push when used off stage so its a minor recovery tool when you're knock far off. Aside from that, don't use it seriously. Its weaker AND has more cooldown.

 

[TheGreatBrawler]

Its not you. It got nerfed. It's practically unusable unless you're opponent is bad and/or you're trolling.

It gives you a bit of a horizontal push when used off stage so its a minor recovery tool when you're knock far off. Aside from that, don't use it seriously. Its weaker AND has more cooldown.

I do think the warlock thrust has better use since it can KO 20% while falcon punch can only be ko at 80 ish and higher percent. I remember being able to ko with it around 50% (Brawl) now it's less usable. Rather use a forward smash or a knee since they are more reliable. How could you do this to our manly falcon Sakurai? The only benefit of it I think is that you can jump and move forward in midair with it at the least...

 

[Darky-Sama]

Yeah, Reverse Falcon Punch is wonderful for recovering from the upward-diagonal blastzone. There are a few situations where Falcon Punch is possible to use, but it's much better to just go for a knee or smash attack in this game if you're going for a hard punish. That being said, it's not bad to throw out in doubles because characters are always getting hit by something. It's not bad for breaking shields either. lol

 

[SOber SOldier]

check out my captain falcon hype montage!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQSQYd83T-E

It's a bunch of clips I had to get rid of eventually.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQSQYd83T-E

 

[Ayce God]

in your opinion , what are Falcons top 3 worse mus ? imo, pikachu,sheik and diddys fair. not diddy.....just his fair.....

 

[HFlash]

in your opinion , what are Falcons top 3 worse mus ? imo, pikachu,sheik and diddys fair. not diddy.....just his fair.....

Your missing ness in top worst MUs

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

in your opinion , what are Falcons top 3 worse mus ? imo, pikachu,sheik and diddys fair. not diddy.....just his fair.....

Mario, Ness are our worst IMO. Link and Mega man are tough. Everything else feels significantly more manageable.

Diddy is -1. Same with Pikachu and Sheik. Pikachu is probably the hardest of them.

My question to high level Falcons:

Do you think you can excel in a high level tournament setting going 100% Falcon? My opinion: yes but it's hard. @ teluoborg and anyone else trying to expand our reach, please give me your honest opinion. This is important to me.

 

[teluoborg]

Yes, but you need to master your movement options. Like Dekar said in the early pages dash pivot dance is crucial for our groud game (right right-left left-right right-left etc), perfect pivot can be interesting but it's very technical compared to what it adds to your arsenal. You also want to master small things like buffered dashes, instant ledge grab, platform drop OOS (which is harder to perform than in Brawl), the autocancel timing of your aerials.

Another thing I believe is crucial if you want to take Falcon to the highest level is the ability to exploit mixups. Because his moves have good offensive values but are easily punished by the top tiers you want to keep your opponent guessing at all times.
A good example of that is dash grab : its range make it impossible to react to, but if your opponent reads you it's easily avoidable and can even be baited and punished. But it's not that bad because you have options that cover the counters to dash grab, like if the opponent wants to dodge it you can shield drop autojab, or charge an Usmash, if he like to roll you can side B towards where he rolls, etc etc.

So all in all yes, Falcon can be good but you have to be technically on point and play a very proactive and reactive game so that you set up the pace of the game.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I appreciate the response. I ask because I'm considering going 100% from this point on. I love the character. Always have. And I know myself well.. I've only been playing Smash since it came out for 64.

I am an all or nothing kind of guy. I play best when I give my full attention to one character. In a game with so many characters, it seems silly to do so. But I feel like time spent on secondaries is time that could be spent on my best/favorite character. I guess I'm trying to reaffirm this is what I wanna do. Because I'm just so excited Falcon is good again. He's got his flaws but I think I can develop into a great enough player to overcome those in a high level setting.

 

[HFlash]

I appreciate the response. I ask because I'm considering going 100% from this point on. I love the character. Always have. And I know myself well.. I've only been playing Smash since it came out for 64.

I am an all or nothing kind of guy. I play best when I give my full attention to one character. In a game with so many characters, it seems silly to do so. But I feel like time spent on secondaries is time that could be spent on my best/favorite character. I guess I'm trying to reaffirm this is what I wanna do. Because I'm just so excited Falcon is good again. He's got his flaws but I think I can develop into a great enough player to overcome those in a high level setting.

That is very admirable, and most people reading this forum would tell you to totally go for it! For me personally, I don't see the harm in having a secondary to cover the bad MUs for Capt Falcon. Especially in my scene, where you have the world's best Pika (ESAM) and DHD (MVD) and a ****ton of Nesses. I play pretty much shiek for those MUs, and she does have a similar Comoboesque game as falcon, so the deviation isn't that big compared to most other Characters. But regardless, play whoever you want, THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY

 

[MonkBard]

I have found where I belong.

 

[Ayce God]

Your missing ness in top worst MUs

Ness really? thats interesting. I would say that's maybe -1 maybe.

Mario, Ness are our worst IMO. Link and Mega man are tough. Everything else feels significantly more manageable.

Diddy is -1. Same with Pikachu and Sheik. Pikachu is probably the hardest of them.

Mario eh, I would say luigi i worse than Mario. link is possibly even ? I don't feel the disadvantage....
am I the only falcon that has felt the terror of pikachu though ? lol

 

[teluoborg]

Diddy is neutral, you just have to not fall for his gimmicks. Sheik has the advantage on us that's for sure, Pika I'm not so sure, I know that if you keep your classic playstyle you gon get rekt, but it's not because you have to change your strat that it's a disadvantage.

Same for Megaman, it looks like a disadvantage but I don't have enough experience to judge. Link is neutral, even easier than the other matchups once you master perfect shield.

Mario is neutral and Ness is probably neutral too. Just because they have one move that's hard to deal with doesn't mean they have an advantage.